Question

[wes the wise]

Its just that they are easy to pick on for being on the winning side of the war. Just like AFT/SNX is easy to pick on on the losing side of the war. I'm sure Atlas overall Atlas is just fine. I don't particularly care for the awards because the self nominations just make me feel weird. If I participated though tbh I'd probably nominate CCC for some stuff. Lol

[Saxplayer]

Because you're fighting invicta, just like many other people are and yall are getting rekt unlike anyone else fighting them (not to take away from invictas ability.. one of the stronger militaries in the game imo, but they are outgunned). They've almost done double damage to yall then you've inflicted when they really shouldnt even be able to declare offensively at this point. You have a bunch of nsf/guiness members. You have the 3rd worst stagger rate, 7th worst dpw, 2nd worst dpn, and 5th worst aid slot usage.

I usually don't think the last one is a great barometer because if everyone has solid WCs you don't need to move funds but cmon. 10%?

 

Ton of Guinness/NSF members? I didn't know 5 was a ton of members, especially in an alliance of 71. Also, there is not a single member of Guinness in Atlas.

 

Btw, NSF was FAR worse in terms of military compared to Atlas.

[Franz Ferdinand]

 

Ton of Guinness/NSF members? I didn't know 5 was a ton of members, especially in an alliance of 71. Also, there is not a single member of Guinness in Atlas.

 

Btw, NSF was FAR worse in terms of military compared to Atlas.

I believe Lord Hitchcock was in Guinness, however he has shown that he's happy to fight when he is needed. Case in point: MI6 vs Kaskus.

[Saxplayer]

I believe Lord Hitchcock was in Guinness, however he has shown that he's happy to fight when he is needed. Case in point: MI6 vs Kaskus.

 

You're right. He was.

[Franz Ferdinand]

 

You're right. He was.

In terms of your second point, I agree. NSF were far more disorganised than Atlas have been. For one, they had no nuclear nations at all ready of which their only one did not fire because he was going on holiday. Quite a few of those nations are at Supernova-X, naturally. Out of North Star Federation and Atlas, I would pick the former every time because while Atlas may have quite a few nations which were not properly prepared for the war, they have at least fought at a reasonable level. In addition, they haven't crumpled now, have they? They still stand and have not suffered as severely as North Star Federation did during the Beer Guzzlers War or even the FAN-UCR War.

[King William]

Could it also be the case that Atlas was simply entering their first proper war, that their nations had not been building their nations properly for warfare and that Invicta had been in war for enough time to become nuke turrets when Atlas engaged?
 
As an aside, I think the Lavender Town contingent has a better damage taken / given ratio than Atlas as a whole.

I don't know if you're speaking to explain why Atlas is getting the bad rep, or defending their performance.

In either case, to the best of my knowledge, what you and Smurf said is factual. And people should simply take it as that. The facts.

You should also take the issues brought up, (see Smurfs post), esp. this close to the end of the year, as to why Atlas is making such a strong negative impression.

Nothing to be ashamed of, but it's how it is. If Atlas wins, they should take it "proudly", with a grain of salt perhaps, and do better next time. Can't do anything else.

[Tehmina]

Yeah, most people are nominating Atlas because of their damage ratio this war without actually seeing the real reasons behind the ratio.... I too did it, but then I saw GPF doing well against a beated-down NADC... So I did expect Atlas to do better than what they are doing right now.
Also because UCR didn't participate in this war :p

[Tehmina]

Mkw looking at it, I do think its kinda unfair given the performance of KoRT... but I guess Atlas being in an important bloc and on the winning side is not helping them here...

Edited December 21, 2014 by Tehmina

[Anarquista]

I think you answered your own question, it seems like when an alliance focuses on growth and recruitment, you often don't have the proportional military aspect,

I also agree with unknown smurf,

a lot of us base our thoughts of worst military on simple stats, we don't see the whole side of how the run their military, and it is difficult to determine with other intangible factors like how much heart they put into battle, bismelesef

[Franz Ferdinand]

You should also take the issues brought up, (see Smurfs post), esp. this close to the end of the year, as to why Atlas is making such a strong negative impression.

Nothing to be ashamed of, but it's how it is. If Atlas wins, they should take it "proudly", with a grain of salt perhaps, and do better next time. Can't do anything else.

Of course, and that is something which we have been doing. If I was able to explain what exactly has been going down closed doors, you'd agree that Atlas were hamstringed by factors outside their control. In terms of Atlas, I had been appointed the Chancellor of Internal Affairs shortly after merging Lavender Town into Atlas and the Chancellor of Defence was a different individual altogether. Due to the events of November 22nd, there was a government reshuffle with me being appointed as the new Chancellor of Defence. On November 27th, Atlas goes to war after a rollercoaster period where targets were ready and then targets were allocated to someone else.

 

Can I turn the military of an alliance around in 5 days? Could you, UnknownSmurf or anybody? The sensible answer would be no. Atlas as an alliance had been geared towards economic development and had no real military experience. If they got involved in the Beer Guzzlers War, they might have escalated it, but they would have been dealt with by my guys at Lavender Town. Invicta's nations (while they have had around 3 rounds of war already before Atlas declared) were also still rocking nukes and decent WCs. Atlas on the other hand had not been properly primed for a military confrontation like this. We have had nations who have not fought back and gone inactive, and others who have been crying over the fact they had not a big enough WC. This happens in all wars really.

 

Of course, if Lavender Town did not merge into Atlas, the situation would more than likely have been more dire. We have done what we can to fight back and help keep Atlas bring some manner of fight. As an alliance, Atlas does not deserve the worst military award, the main reason why they have been voted for that is because it is so fresh in people's minds. As Saxplayer highlighted earlier, North Star Federation would have a better claim to that award. They executed a war incorrectly by labelling it a counter-raid with their protectorate and then found that their protectorate had a handful of people within government who was pissed at how crv24 (who at last check was a Triumvirate at Supernova-X and attempting to run for Brown Senate) had handled the allocation of targets and practically abandoned them.

 

Due to this, those members decided to splinter off during the war, ask me for help in which case I directed them to my protector at the time RIOT Society, and we negotiated a deal where we would protect them and in response, they are out of the war. This knocked the wind out of the sails of NSF/Guinness and resulted in them starting to collapse with Guinness desperately trying to get government officials (requesting on the OWF for them). In the end NSF paid $78m in reps after just 4 days and Guinness disbanded 12 days after the war.

 

As it stands, Atlas has not had anyone to my knowledge surrender, they have not given up like The Sandstorm Confederacy has (albeit they did take a long pounding). Internally, Atlas came into this war knowing that we were not going to do too well, however at the same time we came in order to assist our allies and to gather valuable war experience. My view is as follows: the bigger the pounding Atlas takes, the more likely our members will realise that they need to get their act together and develop a proper military for their nations.

 

The guys I have fought with at Invicta have been great to chat with and we have had plenty of enjoyable nights exchanging nukes and banter at each other. I have a huge respect for what they have been taking, and I wish them all the best in the future. In this world, there is no black and white, but just fifty shades of grey (or gray, who honestly cares). In regards to Smurf, I respect him as a ruler and we have shared the microphone on The Apathy Report in the past and we share the same views in certain areas. However, my only hope is that he realises that the situation isn't as clear-cut as he imagines it as.

 

Anyway, I am happy to field any questions (not that there will be any, I usually kill conversations off it seems).

[Master Hakai]

What the heck, franz.

I so disappointed rey doesn't like kashmir anymore :/

I don't know or care why people are trashing atlas' military.. but I don't think SUN is getting the attention they deserve

[Lord Hitchcock]

To be fair, the events on November 22 was my frustration with Non Grata. An alliance who was once a powerhouse in their hay-day has basically shown their lack of activity and relevance in world affairs with a second rate war declaration purely for the face time.

I thought non grata could have started a path back to their golden years, but instead they sealed a fate of carelessness and inactivity

[Franz Ferdinand]

What the heck, franz.

I so disappointed rey doesn't like kashmir anymore :/

I don't know or care why people are trashing atlas' military.. but I don't think SUN is getting the attention they deserve

Master Hakai, I felt it was necessary to write all that up in order to dispel some of the stuff being said about Atlas and give some background on it. It's a shame Rey doesn't like Kashmir buy I still like you guys, hell I'm fighting alongside WorldConqueror against Phate of Belgrade!

[keeology]

Of course, and that is something which we have been doing. If I was able to explain what exactly has been going down closed doors, you'd agree that Atlas were hamstringed by factors outside their control. In terms of Atlas, I had been appointed the Chancellor of Internal Affairs shortly after merging Lavender Town into Atlas and the Chancellor of Defence was a different individual altogether. Due to the events of November 22nd, there was a government reshuffle with me being appointed as the new Chancellor of Defence. On November 27th, Atlas goes to war after a rollercoaster period where targets were ready and then targets were allocated to someone else.
 
Can I turn the military of an alliance around in 5 days? Could you, UnknownSmurf or anybody? The sensible answer would be no. Atlas as an alliance had been geared towards economic development and had no real military experience. If they got involved in the Beer Guzzlers War, they might have escalated it, but they would have been dealt with by my guys at Lavender Town. Invicta's nations (while they have had around 3 rounds of war already before Atlas declared) were also still rocking nukes and decent WCs. Atlas on the other hand had not been properly primed for a military confrontation like this. We have had nations who have not fought back and gone inactive, and others who have been crying over the fact they had not a big enough WC. This happens in all wars really.
 
Of course, if Lavender Town did not merge into Atlas, the situation would more than likely have been more dire. We have done what we can to fight back and help keep Atlas bring some manner of fight. As an alliance, Atlas does not deserve the worst military award, the main reason why they have been voted for that is because it is so fresh in people's minds. As Saxplayer highlighted earlier, North Star Federation would have a better claim to that award. They executed a war incorrectly by labelling it a counter-raid with their protectorate and then found that their protectorate had a handful of people within government who was pissed at how crv24 (who at last check was a Triumvirate at Supernova-X and attempting to run for Brown Senate) had handled the allocation of targets and practically abandoned them.
 
Due to this, those members decided to splinter off during the war, ask me for help in which case I directed them to my protector at the time RIOT Society, and we negotiated a deal where we would protect them and in response, they are out of the war. This knocked the wind out of the sails of NSF/Guinness and resulted in them starting to collapse with Guinness desperately trying to get government officials (requesting on the OWF for them). In the end NSF paid $78m in reps after just 4 days and Guinness disbanded 12 days after the war.
 
As it stands, Atlas has not had anyone to my knowledge surrender, they have not given up like The Sandstorm Confederacy has (albeit they did take a long pounding). Internally, Atlas came into this war knowing that we were not going to do too well, however at the same time we came in order to assist our allies and to gather valuable war experience. My view is as follows: the bigger the pounding Atlas takes, the more likely our members will realise that they need to get their act together and develop a proper military for their nations.
 
The guys I have fought with at Invicta have been great to chat with and we have had plenty of enjoyable nights exchanging nukes and banter at each other. I have a huge respect for what they have been taking, and I wish them all the best in the future. In this world, there is no black and white, but just fifty shades of grey (or gray, who honestly cares). In regards to Smurf, I respect him as a ruler and we have shared the microphone on The Apathy Report in the past and we share the same views in certain areas. However, my only hope is that he realises that the situation isn't as clear-cut as he imagines it as.
 
Anyway, I am happy to field any questions (not that there will be any, I usually kill conversations off it seems).

KW said it well. Normally the 1st war is a tough war for AA'S it's where your either going to learn and get better or keep going down.

[Mister black]

didnt nsf merge into atlas and a bunch of oher shitty allainces?

[Walshington]

Of course, and that is something which we have been doing. If I was able to explain what exactly has been going down closed doors, you'd agree that Atlas were hamstringed by factors outside their control. In terms of Atlas, I had been appointed the Chancellor of Internal Affairs shortly after merging Lavender Town into Atlas and the Chancellor of Defence was a different individual altogether. Due to the events of November 22nd, there was a government reshuffle with me being appointed as the new Chancellor of Defence. On November 27th, Atlas goes to war after a rollercoaster period where targets were ready and then targets were allocated to someone else.

 

Can I turn the military of an alliance around in 5 days? Could you, UnknownSmurf or anybody? The sensible answer would be no. Atlas as an alliance had been geared towards economic development and had no real military experience. If they got involved in the Beer Guzzlers War, they might have escalated it, but they would have been dealt with by my guys at Lavender Town. Invicta's nations (while they have had around 3 rounds of war already before Atlas declared) were also still rocking nukes and decent WCs. Atlas on the other hand had not been properly primed for a military confrontation like this. We have had nations who have not fought back and gone inactive, and others who have been crying over the fact they had not a big enough WC. This happens in all wars really.

 

Of course, if Lavender Town did not merge into Atlas, the situation would more than likely have been more dire. We have done what we can to fight back and help keep Atlas bring some manner of fight. As an alliance, Atlas does not deserve the worst military award, the main reason why they have been voted for that is because it is so fresh in people's minds. As Saxplayer highlighted earlier, North Star Federation would have a better claim to that award. They executed a war incorrectly by labelling it a counter-raid with their protectorate and then found that their protectorate had a handful of people within government who was pissed at how crv24 (who at last check was a Triumvirate at Supernova-X and attempting to run for Brown Senate) had handled the allocation of targets and practically abandoned them.

 

Due to this, those members decided to splinter off during the war, ask me for help in which case I directed them to my protector at the time RIOT Society, and we negotiated a deal where we would protect them and in response, they are out of the war. This knocked the wind out of the sails of NSF/Guinness and resulted in them starting to collapse with Guinness desperately trying to get government officials (requesting on the OWF for them). In the end NSF paid $78m in reps after just 4 days and Guinness disbanded 12 days after the war.

 

As it stands, Atlas has not had anyone to my knowledge surrender, they have not given up like The Sandstorm Confederacy has (albeit they did take a long pounding). Internally, Atlas came into this war knowing that we were not going to do too well, however at the same time we came in order to assist our allies and to gather valuable war experience. My view is as follows: the bigger the pounding Atlas takes, the more likely our members will realise that they need to get their act together and develop a proper military for their nations.

 

The guys I have fought with at Invicta have been great to chat with and we have had plenty of enjoyable nights exchanging nukes and banter at each other. I have a huge respect for what they have been taking, and I wish them all the best in the future. In this world, there is no black and white, but just fifty shades of grey (or gray, who honestly cares). In regards to Smurf, I respect him as a ruler and we have shared the microphone on The Apathy Report in the past and we share the same views in certain areas. However, my only hope is that he realises that the situation isn't as clear-cut as he imagines it as.

 

Anyway, I am happy to field any questions (not that there will be any, I usually kill conversations off it seems).

 

Basically, you are saying in a nutshell that Atlas' military is not that good.  

 

That said, NSF's was clearly worse.

[Neo Uruk]

I think we've all been able to admit that Atlas is straight up not good at this point in time, from a militaristic standpoint. But to claim they've had anywhere near the poor performance of some other alliances this year is either a remarkable display of poor judgment or intellectual dishonesty.

[Walshington]

I think we've all been able to admit that Atlas is straight up not good at this point in time, from a militaristic standpoint. But to claim they've had anywhere near the poor performance of some other alliances this year is either a remarkable display of poor judgment or intellectual dishonesty.

 

I think it is the "What have you done for me lately?" nature of these sorts of awards.

[Gh0s7]

Atlas has performed poorly this war, because of a combination of being green, and fighting an alliance who's upper tier(A prime example being Xr1 who had over 150k NS at the start of the war), to the mid tier, and the mid tiers to the low tiers, and so on. Had they been warring Invicta to start, then their nations would've fallen at a similar rate, which would've made things more even.

 

It is true that they're performance isn't very good, but at least there's a legitimate excuse. Other alliances have performed worse with no viable excuses at all. So I have to agree that it's unfair to judge Atlas to such a degree based solely on a quick glance at the stats, because there's a lot more to it than that.

[Unknown Smurf]

Firstly, I am insulted by my lack of mention for my involvement of the Beer Guzzlers War.

Secondly, yes Atlas is doing poorly.

Thirdly, it is clear-cut at this point in time. That, however, doesn't mean that it won't be revamped in the future. 

Fourthly, while I have a lot of respect for what Lavender Town did, alliance wide warfare is a different game altogether and I hope you understand the level of work cut out for you Franz. It's not just about making sure everyone has a good WC/wonders/target/etc. 

[SirWilliam]

For what it's worth, Franz, I don't believe the nominations or criticisms are directed at your leadership or success but is rather, as has been mentioned, a reflection of statistics, certainly devoid of some degree of context.

 

Take the war as a learning experience if nothing else and I'm sure you guys will be just fine.  :)

[BringMeTheHorizon]

All I got from this war was the ability to reread how NSF surrendered to Riot Society for 78 million reps which was a joke offer for them to refuse.

 

Though, Atlas has done poorly, there is no reasonably explanation that can be said. Being green, or no warchest can be canceled out by you choosing to enter on an opponent beaten down, and on an opponent that was piled on. You could have for all purposes sat this one out, and focused on building up your military wonders, and war chest. This falls on Atlas themselves for failing to see how bad they would actually do, and as Franz said, they knew they weren't going to do well. I'm saying that NSF/Guinness was handled poorly via the FA route not the military route, even though they did bad, but not even they had the kind of Numbers atlas is showing on the winning side of a beat down war. You can't even compare guinness because Riot Society stole half of their active gov/members with a splinter. So they have a legit excuse if people say Atlas has an excuse. Now NSF was bar far more disorganized, but in pure numbers did way better than Atlas has. Now let's say everyone accepts Atlas's excuses, we all move on, and forget. Let's just remember this, even if times tells a different story the next war, Atlas was still being compared to the worst militaries of 2014.

 

 

With that being said, I wouldn't say they have the worst military, I think they have poor leadership which lead them into their bad showing, and the perception of them being the worst military of 2014. 

[Sir Kiloist]

Facts we should just accept and call it over on this thread:

 

1) This thread is about Rey.

2) Invicta isn't a weak opponent.

3) Nuke turrents in the 15k range (I've had nuclear nations declaring on me at the 7-10k range as well) will take do a shit ton of damage if they have idk...say over 1k tech on nations who are normally tech sellers and carrying 100 tech. The trickle down effect of nations with larger amounts of tech finding their way down the NS chart will hurt a lot too..

4) Sir Kiloist is the fucking Vice President of Atlas... This should tell you something. <-- this is the real cause of it all imo. 

5) Had we not been taken off our original target we'd either be at a 1:1 ratio or better. 

[Captain Enema]

Could it also be the case that Atlas was simply entering their first proper war, that their nations had not been building their nations properly for warfare and that Invicta had been in war for enough time to become nuke turrets when Atlas engaged?

 

As an aside, I think the Lavender Town contingent has a better damage taken / given ratio than Atlas as a whole.

 

I'm quoting this for my own amusement, mark my words, Lavender town is going to rise again. The seed was planted in this post. 

[EViL0nE]

I didn't nominate/vote for anyone.. but I would've nominated Atlas as the worst military alliance.  The reasoning/excuses given here about why they're doing so poorly doesn't change the fact that they are doing poorly.

They are hiding all but a couple of their upper tier nations in PM while on the side that has a mathematically insurmountable advantage in the upper tiers.

They have a significantly negative damage ratio on the winning side.

 

Even with all of the reasons given here, those two things are facts and they are going to lead people to call them the worst military alliance of 2014 at this point in time.