Londo Mollari Posted February 19, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2012 You know, a whole lot of people have posted regarding my past actions, or asked me to spill juicy dirt for the gawkers... But this isn't about me. It's about the political lifeblood of CN. And it isn't about the past. It's about the future. The vast majority of political leaders do not take risks, lest they endanger their positions, which they value so highly. Without risk there is no action. Without action there is no interest. Without interest there is no world. Most leaders do not trust in their own abilities enough to take risks to keep things interesting. This is an unacceptable state of affairs. Anyone who is reading this can take steps towards rectifying it. I wish you luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChairmanHal Posted February 19, 2012 Report Share Posted February 19, 2012 [quote name='Londo Mollari' timestamp='1329617915' post='2923712'] You know, a whole lot of people have posted regarding my past actions, or asked me to spill juicy dirt for the gawkers... But this isn't about me. It's about the political lifeblood of CN. And it isn't about the past. It's about the future. The vast majority of political leaders do not take risks, lest they endanger their positions, which they value so highly. Without risk there is no action. Without action there is no interest. Without interest there is no world. Most leaders do not trust in their own abilities enough to take risks to keep things interesting. This is an unacceptable state of affairs. Anyone who is reading this can take steps towards rectifying it. I wish you luck. [/quote] Within recent memory Legion took risks. The members of Mjolnir took risks. Others have as well. If your complaint is that people aren't taking enough risk fast enough, that would be a more valid point I think. The pace at which conflict is slow, and indeed it has to do with people wanting to make sure all the 't's are crossed and the 'i's dotted. Losing a major war can put you behind a year, even two. I seriously doubt that NpO for example will be involved in another global conflict until well into 2013, at least not on purpose. However, to say that we're all completely paralyzed with fear of losing and the future is bleak is simply wrong. Conservative risk management makes sense. What you should be arguing is that there are ways to do risk management that won't have people reaching for a pillow instead of more popcorn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olaf Styke Posted February 19, 2012 Report Share Posted February 19, 2012 (edited) An analysis of the motives for posting this thread: DESPARATION An analysis of the merits of Londo's argument: NONE Delete already. Edited February 19, 2012 by Olaf Styke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salmia Posted February 20, 2012 Report Share Posted February 20, 2012 So basically another post about how days used to be better in the old days and people did more things. How things are boring and so forth. One could ask why don't you do things if you are so bored? Maybe not everyone else is bored or maybe sometimes it takes a while for ideas to come up. Either way, this sounds just like an old fogey post. I think I hear you, Londo, yelling at us youngsters to get off the lawn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IYIyTh Posted February 20, 2012 Report Share Posted February 20, 2012 I want love, to walk right up and bite me...grab a hold of me and fight me..leave me dying on the ground... I want love to forget that you have offended me, or how you have defended me when everybody defended me I want love to Change my friends to enemies. Change my friends to enemies. Show me how it's all my fault. I won't let love disrupt corrupt or interrupt me, anymore. The times, they are a changin' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerdge Posted February 20, 2012 Report Share Posted February 20, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Londo Mollari' timestamp='1329556253' post='2923273']The party's over folks. The remaining alliance leaders are either too inactive or too timid or care too much about the "social status" they derive as leaders of "influential alliances" to risk what they have by rocking the established social order or rocking the boat. As a certain former NEW member put it most eloquently.... "tiny ball and submissive personality". That's what's left.[/quote] [size=1][color=grey][ooc][/color][/size] A problem is that it's increasingly difficult for those that lose wars to [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=109189&view=findpost&p=2923146"]ever get a top tier again[/url]. People are just being rational in the framework of the game mechanics they're stuck with (silly as they are, at this point). [size=1][color=grey][/ooc][/color][/size] [quote name='Stewie' timestamp='1329587842' post='2923445']Should just cancel all treaties and if someone wants to defend another person then they just do it...[/quote] Neutrality! That's a great idea I can really get behind. [quote name='Steve Buscemi' timestamp='1329600057' post='2923546']Neutrals are great [size=1][color=grey]for the reason that they are honest with themselves, unlike so many alliances who act like the GPA [...][/color][/size][/quote] I see a pattern there... [spoiler]j/k, but thanks for the recognition.[/spoiler] [spoiler][size=1][color=grey][ooc][/color] Edit: I don't know what I was thinking with that stupid reply, my criticism wasn't even directed at Londo. My bad man, my bad. [color=grey][/ooc][/color][/size] [spoiler]My OOC comment was: [size=1][color=grey][ooc][/color][/size] You may have noted that it's increasingly difficult for those that lose wars to [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=109189&view=findpost&p=2923146"]ever get a top tier again[/url]. It's silly that you complain about people being rational. [size=1][color=grey][/ooc][/color][/size][/spoiler][/spoiler] Edited February 21, 2012 by jerdge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhyd3r Posted February 20, 2012 Report Share Posted February 20, 2012 Back in the day we walked FIFTEEN miles up hill to school and then FIFTEEN miles uphill back home. You darn kids with your skateboards and pop music. If I recall my alliance just won a war and exacted some reps. How are we getting more boring? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monster Posted February 20, 2012 Report Share Posted February 20, 2012 Because it dragged out for months and it wasn't interesting at all at the point it ended. For a philosophy major, you don't do a good job at addressing the issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhyd3r Posted February 20, 2012 Report Share Posted February 20, 2012 Well, I had fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ironfist Posted February 21, 2012 Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 You know what would help? Another thread like this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilrow Posted February 21, 2012 Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 [quote name='Stewie' timestamp='1329556581' post='2923274'] A+ post there Londo. It's why any form of mass raiding is now a "Big Deal" on the OWF. Back in the day it was a regular occurrence. So much baaawing and posturing nowadays. I look forward to the formation of the Hegemony of this new age. [/quote] It's always been a big deal. It was in Oct/Nov of 2006 when I was involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merrie Melodies Posted February 21, 2012 Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 [quote name='Bilrow' timestamp='1329790447' post='2924910'] It's always been a big deal. It was in Oct/Nov of 2006 when I was involved. [/quote] I miss Kevin the Great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Ilyani Posted February 21, 2012 Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 [quote name='Mogar' timestamp='1329611036' post='2923651'] you seem to be implying that the strategy of screwing up your intended war plan didnt work out to be more beneficial than blindly launching everyone at IRON/TOP for our side, and that your coalition didn't have infighting as well, last I checked Mjolnir won their battle against SF, but let us win the proverbial war. (plus having literally 2/3rds of the coalition you're a part of wanting to kill off half your bloc probably doesn't work out too well.) [/quote] You give you and your ilk [i]waaaaaaaaaay[/i] too much credit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monster Posted February 21, 2012 Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 Seriously, I wouldn't gloat Mogar. There was tons of discord within the other side though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mogar Posted February 21, 2012 Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 [quote name='Bob Ilyani' timestamp='1329798886' post='2924962'] You give you and your ilk [i]waaaaaaaaaay[/i] too much credit. [/quote] You give your internal issues not enough. [quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1329802109' post='2924980'] Seriously, I wouldn't gloat Mogar. There was tons of discord within the other side though. [/quote] There's plenty of discord even now that the war is over, and if I didn't gloat, I wouldn't be me! [IMG]http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w82/M0gar/tumblr_lstwsfdFCp1r4yz14o1_400.gif[/IMG] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeroofTime55 Posted February 21, 2012 Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Londo Mollari' timestamp='1329556253' post='2923273'] There is none. And you people are hanging on Roquentin's every word like bros spying on UPN is any big thang. Ya'lld crap your pants full of more brown than GATO if you knew what all we did back in the day. The party's over folks. The remaining alliance leaders are either too inactive or too timid or care too much about the "social status" they derive as leaders of "influential alliances" to risk what they have by rocking the established social order or rocking the boat. As a certain former NEW member put it most eloquently.... "tiny ball and submissive personality". That's what's left. You may now resume your regular "social interaction". [/quote] The risks were lower back in the day, and encouraged action. Nowadays, every losing war only furthers the stats gap between the top alliances and everyone else, and exponentially increasing extortion doesn't help the situation in the slightest. Nobody wants to put even more distance between themselves and say Umbrella or TOP, because that just increases the effort and resources required for a victory on the next attempt. Every failure increases the difficulty of the next attempt by increasing margins. It's not the size of people's balls that have shrunk; The cost-benefit equation has altered to make it idiotic to make the moves that made rational sense to make back in the day, when we didn't have alliances of 100k average NS and a guarantee that you're going to be extorted for everything you have the next time you lose a war. [quote name='Bilrow' timestamp='1329790447' post='2924910'] It's always been a big deal. It was in Oct/Nov of 2006 when I was involved. [/quote] Oh, hey, welcome back to the fray my friend ~♥ Edited February 21, 2012 by HeroofTime55 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seerow Posted February 21, 2012 Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 (edited) [quote]The risks were lower back in the day, and encouraged action. Nowadays, every losing war only furthers the stats gap between the top alliances and everyone else, and exponentially increasing extortion doesn't help the situation in the slightest. Nobody wants to put even more distance between themselves and say Umbrella or TOP, because that just increases the effort and resources required for a victory on the next attempt. Every failure increases the difficulty of the next attempt by increasing margins. It's not the size of people's balls that have shrunk; The cost-benefit equation has altered to make it idiotic to make the moves that made rational sense to make back in the day, when we didn't have alliances of 100k average NS and a guarantee that you're going to be extorted for everything you have the next time you lose a war. [/quote] tl;dr: You agree with what I've been saying for 4 or 5 years now. Tech dealing is ruining planet Bob. Edited February 21, 2012 by Seerow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monster Posted February 21, 2012 Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 Just because I mastered it doesn't mean it ruined anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Ilyani Posted February 21, 2012 Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 [quote name='Mogar' timestamp='1329802825' post='2924987'] You give your internal issues not enough. [/quote] Ummmmmmm, no. I don't think you've ever actually asked me about the collapse of the bloc, but it'd be nice if you didn't put words in my mouth. That being said, if you think that SF had any sort of influence in the breakup of Mjolnir than I'm sad to say that you're going to be disappointed. You're pretty damn far off of the mark. Though it is quite amusing to see the SuperFriends only remain politically relevant in their dreams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mogar Posted February 21, 2012 Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 [quote name='Bob Ilyani' timestamp='1329863022' post='2925260'] Ummmmmmm, no. I don't think you've ever actually asked me about the collapse of the bloc, but it'd be nice if you didn't put words in my mouth. That being said, if you think that SF had any sort of influence in the breakup of Mjolnir than I'm sad to say that you're going to be disappointed. You're pretty damn far off of the mark. Though it is quite amusing to see the SuperFriends only remain politically relevant in their dreams. [/quote] SF had the member who chose allies over the bloc leave, Mjolnir just disbanded instead, lucky for you it wasn't RoK this time around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Ilyani Posted February 21, 2012 Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 [quote name='Mogar' timestamp='1329866441' post='2925280'] SF had the member who chose allies over the bloc leave, Mjolnir just disbanded instead, lucky for you it wasn't RoK this time around. [/quote] ... I don't even know what this has to do with the point I just made. Need I repeat it for you? [b][u]The SuperFriends were not a factor in the dissolution of Mjolnir. Not at all. [/u][/b]Is that a little better?[b] [/b] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mogar Posted February 22, 2012 Report Share Posted February 22, 2012 [quote name='Bob Ilyani' timestamp='1329867090' post='2925284'] ... I don't even know what this has to do with the point I just made. Need I repeat it for you? [b][u]The SuperFriends were not a factor in the dissolution of Mjolnir. Not at all. [/u][/b]Is that a little better?[b] [/b] [/quote] My point wasnt that Superfriends singlehandedly disbanded Mjolnir, my point was that we're still here, you arent. NoR wanting to be besties with MK, with RoK/Val in MK's sights might have had slightly more to do with the disbandment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potato Posted February 22, 2012 Report Share Posted February 22, 2012 [quote name='Mogar' timestamp='1329869613' post='2925303'] with RoK/Val in MK's sights [/quote] ... come again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mogar Posted February 22, 2012 Report Share Posted February 22, 2012 (edited) [quote name='potato' timestamp='1329871091' post='2925322'] ... come again? [/quote] Wasn't saying right this second, but disbanding Mj made those two in particular(RoK especially considering their current FA problems) not at all allied in any way to you or your allies, no? edit: I *do* remember this game while in Q government, you have to find a target every so often or your membership gets bored, when you run out of targets, make new ones, even if you have to make your allies sacrifice friends, or even kill your former allies, (CIS comes to mind) Edited February 22, 2012 by Mogar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potato Posted February 22, 2012 Report Share Posted February 22, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Mogar' timestamp='1329871269' post='2925324'] Wasn't saying right this second, but disbanding Mj made those two in particular(RoK especially considering their current FA problems) not at all allied in any way to you or your allies, no? edit: I *do* remember this game while in Q government, you have to find a target every so often or your membership gets bored, when you run out of targets, make new ones, even if you have to make your allies sacrifice friends, or even kill your former allies, (CIS comes to mind) [/quote] Yeah, but not being allied to us and our allies is a common thing for three-quarters of Bob. Doesn't mean we want to kill those alliances[sup]1[/sup]. Also, Valhalla is still MDoAP'd to NoR. [sup]1[/sup] We actually do. Edited February 22, 2012 by potato Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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