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[quote]In this case I found what I believed to be a defunct alliance ...[/quote]
It's a fairly minor point (attacking an alliance for profit is wrong whether you believe them to be 'defunct' or not) but you can't possibly believe this when you attacked within hours of them having posting government signatures on an announcement.

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Will this be a defining moment when a tech raid no longer depends on the size of the alliance being attacked and/or the kind of attacks being used? Will a tech raid now be defined by how many wars are being declared on said AA? dun dun dunnnnn

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[quote name='Artigo' timestamp='1329085697' post='2919209']
It's almost impossible to find raid targets at our size. We often find ourselves decomming nukes and most of our militaries to get a raid whenever there is an opportunity available, despite how strong the nation might be as we are always prepared to eat nukes.[/quote]

Then you should take a page out of GOONS book and stay intentionally small, then you won't have a problem finding "targets". Problem solved :)

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[quote name='Sarmatian Empire' timestamp='1329089763' post='2919257']
Will this be a defining moment when a tech raid no longer depends on the size of the alliance being attacked and/or the kind of attacks being used? Will a tech raid now be defined by how many wars are being declared on said AA? dun dun dunnnnn
[/quote]

No, it won't be.

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[quote name='Bob Janova' timestamp='1329088152' post='2919245']
It's a fairly minor point (attacking an alliance for profit is wrong whether you believe them to be 'defunct' or not) but you can't possibly believe this when you attacked within hours of them having posting government signatures on an announcement.
[/quote]

Sure I could. And I did. Trying to get all their nations to peace out was way more chaos than raiding them in first place lol they're incredibly unorganized at best and that to me in addition to being unable to find relevant information on them says theyre basically disbanded without a formal announcement.

[quote name='the rebel' timestamp='1329094013' post='2919281']
Then you should take a page out of GOONS book and stay intentionally small, then you won't have a problem finding "targets". Problem solved :)
[/quote]

I like my strategy better :)

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By the definition of what NG officials said, they could approve a "raid" on any alliance. So im just gonna count this as boredome induced aggression while trying to get around posting an actual DoW. Why the !@#$%footing? I thought NG were tough guys.

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[quote name='HellAngel' timestamp='1329133331' post='2919479']
By the definition of what NG officials said, they could approve a "raid" on any alliance. So im just gonna count this as boredome induced aggression while trying to get around posting an actual DoW. Why the !@#$%footing? I thought NG were tough guys.
[/quote]

Yes, and in the past there have been raids on GPA and other alliances which never were brought to the OWF by dozens of people.

And with regards to there being more raids at lower levels, that's a lie. All the smaller nations are in alliances protected by various other smaller micros who are themselves protected. It's laughable.

The reason I didn't want this to go nuclear is that non-nuclear can be diffused easier. As soon as nukes fly everyone wants the last say which while it is fun and gives me 200k more casualties, and makes my life harder :P

Edited by Stewie
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[quote name='Stewie' timestamp='1329147746' post='2919523']
Depends where you call lower levels. I have 3 nations in my range who are valid raid targets. All in PM. Rest of them are in alliances.
[/quote]
http://www.cybernations.net/nation_drill_display.asp?Nation_ID=227703

valid target in your range etc.

Edited by Velocity111
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[quote name='Velocity111' timestamp='1329147860' post='2919525']
http://www.cybernations.net/nation_drill_display.asp?Nation_ID=227703

valid target in your range etc.
[/quote]

Meteor is a peaceful nation. War is not an option since 2/13/2012

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[quote]Meteor is a peaceful nation. War is not an option since 2/13/2012

[/quote]

yeah about that, it's not that I got scared because comparing our nations, in a 1 on 1 I would've ate you for breakfast..it's more along the lines of you bringing your friends along to even the odds, maybe next time ;)

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I'm not a fan of the tech raid (that's a pretty large and old group of nations to be raiding, and I personally feel they deserve to be left alone.) However, calling this anything but a raid is pretty ridiculous. NG obviously did not go full out, and have kept the damage to a limited scale (they could have done MUCH worse.)

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[quote name='Velocity111' timestamp='1329147860' post='2919525']
http://www.cybernations.net/nation_drill_display.asp?Nation_ID=227703

valid target in your range etc.
[/quote]

i do believe there's a reason he's in PM

Edited by Lurunin
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[quote name='Vespassianus' timestamp='1329133156' post='2919478']
No treaties, no government = valid raid for me. Pure size doesn't make you a real alliance. If you want to avoid raid, go to peace mode or to a real neutral alliance.

Also i can't really hear AGW complaining, some of them can buy the national war memorial finally :D
[/quote]

I don't see them complaining either. So in terms of the specific incident - no big deal.

However, there IS an issue in that this "raid" is WAY outside the norm of what is usually considered a "raid" by common practice by most alliance and there is a big political distinction (and I'm not saying I agree with it, just that is how it is) between a "raid" and a war.

"Raid" = a war with a nation that is considered acceptable by others due to the nation not being in an alliance or the alliance being under a particular size and unprotected and thus not worth defending by others. These are generally (not by my standards, or my alliances - but by enough groups that nothing is done about it) accepted as "only" a raid - and thus something okay.

"War" = An action by one alliance against another (note - nothing says it can't be about getting resources or that it requires full slots to be used, etc. etc) that requires a war declaration. At least generally speaking - "aggressive" wars are still somewhat frowned upon politically.

So - keeping in mind those two distinctions, why bother calling this action a raid and not a war? Non Grata could certainly make this a war and get both stuff and statistics from it without designating it as a "raid."

In my opinion, it has everything to do with politics. "Just a raid" is okay and can be done without much complaining by others. Just the usual crowd of people (I believe that's already been pointed out) who "complain" about not liking "tech raids" generally. Easy to defend an action that is designated as a "raid."

If this were a "war" on the other hand, well then Non Grata would be aggressively declaring a war on another alliance. That's not as okay by most people's standards.

So, it's VERY much in Non Grata's interest to spin this as a "raid" and not a "war" in spite of the fact that what was done is absolutely beyond what most other raiding alliances would (by their own laws) find acceptable as a "raid".

Smart on Non Grata's part.

Edited by White Chocolate
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