Stewie Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 Well, many identify raiding as a valid route to grow land and tech faster than if you solely used cash or tech deals. We only make war when we have just cause to do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephiroth Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 [quote name='Stewie' timestamp='1329481551' post='2922504'] Well, many identify raiding as a valid route to grow land and tech faster than if you solely used cash or tech deals. We only make war when we have just cause to do so. [/quote] Raiding is making war though, you're just going for the easiest targets you can find is the only real difference from a normal war. Unless you think stealing people's land and tech is just cause, your second sentence here doesn't make sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fant0m Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 [quote name='Methrage' timestamp='1329481854' post='2922505'] Raiding is making war though, you're just going for the easiest targets you can find is the only real difference from a normal war. Unless you think stealing people's land and tech is just cause, your second sentence here doesn't make sense. [/quote] Hey look, it's a broken record. You forgot to mention that you used to be King of FCC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephiroth Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 (edited) [quote name='fant0m' timestamp='1329482129' post='2922507'] Hey look, it's a broken record. You forgot to mention that you used to be King of FCC. [/quote] And you forgot to mention whatever alliance you were in before Non Grata, what was it again? Not that it matters at all, but if you're going to bring up past alliance positions, you might as well state yours so we can compare. Edited February 17, 2012 by Methrage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stewie Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 [quote name='Methrage' timestamp='1329481854' post='2922505'] Raiding is making war though, you're just going for the easiest targets you can find is the only real difference from a normal war. Unless you think stealing people's land and tech is just cause, your second sentence here doesn't make sense. [/quote] No, as in raiding you do not intend to to maximum damage to the nation you are raiding. The main aims of raiding is, in certain aspects, to be a surgical strike upon an unprotected target and then withdraw, much as a surgeon cuts through flesh and then withdraws the scalpel after getting their prize. I know not everyone likes raiding, and I know right now we are in a discussion of semantics. I respect that many people don't like raiding, hell the first time I raided was after I joined Poison Clan last year. However it IS a valid form of conflict on Bob and from a certain pov, due to only ground attacks being used, does not fully correspond to case of "making war" where all aspects of your military will be used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephiroth Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Stewie' timestamp='1329483963' post='2922523'] No, as in raiding you do not intend to to maximum damage to the nation you are raiding. The main aims of raiding is, in certain aspects, to be a surgical strike upon an unprotected target and then withdraw, much as a surgeon cuts through flesh and then withdraws the scalpel after getting their prize. I know not everyone likes raiding, and I know right now we are in a discussion of semantics. I respect that many people don't like raiding, hell the first time I raided was after I joined Poison Clan last year. However it IS a valid form of conflict on Bob and from a certain pov, due to only ground attacks being used, does not fully correspond to case of "making war" where all aspects of your military will be used. [/quote] You're still clicking "Declare War" on their nation, then when it asks you if you're sure you want to declare war on the nation, you click yes. I don't really have a problem with raiding when people aren't trying to claim its not war, but I think its silly when people try to claim its not war because of the goal. Edited February 17, 2012 by Methrage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stewie Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 (edited) I'd call raiding localised war between two nations, as yes, you are beginning conflict between two nations. However, it's semantics unless beyond the initial skirmishing someone starts anything more than GAs and then it becomes a conflict. When it gets extended beyond the initial to and fro of day 1 or 2 with other forms of combat such as spying, Bombing Runs, CMs and Nukes then it's a war between two nations which can spiral into an alliance conflict. Is that description amenable to people? Edited February 17, 2012 by Stewie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fant0m Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 [quote name='Methrage' timestamp='1329482285' post='2922508'] And you forgot to mention whatever alliance you were in before Non Grata, what was it again? Not that it matters at all, but if you're going to bring up past alliance positions, you might as well state yours so we can compare. [/quote] Why would I have mentioned my previous alliances and positions, I was pointing out your propensity for repeating yourself. I have held gov positions in various alliances before, now I'm just an inactive tech raider trying to scratch a living in a cut throat world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leerjet Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 Make love. Not war Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Chocolate Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 [quote name='Stewie' timestamp='1329486465' post='2922535'] I'd call raiding localised war between two nations, as yes, you are beginning conflict between two nations. However, it's semantics unless beyond the initial skirmishing someone starts anything more than GAs and then it becomes a conflict. When it gets extended beyond the initial to and fro of day 1 or 2 with other forms of combat such as spying, Bombing Runs, CMs and Nukes then it's a war between two nations which can spiral into an alliance conflict. Is that description amenable to people? [/quote] It's semantics, yes, but that doesn't mean it doesn't have political consequences. I can live with "localized war" vs. "alliance war" because it actually uses the word "war" in the description which makes the point that the person doing the declaring started a war. After that, the war can either stay local, escalate (potentially into an alliance war or larger - it's rare but can happen) or end. Much more descriptive of what actually happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artigo Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 [quote name='Methrage' timestamp='1329485308' post='2922531'] You're still clicking "Declare War" on their nation, then when it asks you if you're sure you want to declare war on the nation, you click yes. I don't really have a problem with raiding when people aren't trying to claim its not war, but I think its silly when people try to claim its not war because of the goal. [/quote] I'd say it's only a war if you're trying to advance a political agenda. Since this is all about personal gain, war isn't really the right word. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Janova Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 [quote]I'd call raiding localised war between two nations[/quote] So when it's one alliance mass-raiding another, then it's less localised war between two alliances, right? I.e., an [i]alliance war[/i]. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Chocolate Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Artigo' timestamp='1329508045' post='2922730'] I'd say it's only a war if you're trying to advance a political agenda. Since this is all about personal gain, war isn't really the right word. [/quote] Holding the belief that you can "tech raid" (for any reason) AND that it's somehow different than declaring war (be it on a single nation, on a bunch of nations in a single alliance or on multiple nations of non-aligned, small AA's, or only on a particular team color or whatever)IS following a political agenda. I'm not saying (right now anyway) that THAT political agenda is the right or wrong one, just that it's political. (OOC: There is no "tech raid" option built into the game that's different from a "Declare War" button. The distinction is ENTIRELY player created and thus in the realm of the political) Edited February 17, 2012 by White Chocolate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sardonic Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Methrage' timestamp='1329480681' post='2922496'] There are no good merits to raiding other selfish gain at the expense of others [/quote] The unaligned are not "others", they are nothing. Their only purpose is to serve as food for their betters. It is only through joining and being in a real alliance an individual gains worth. Edited February 17, 2012 by Sardonic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the rebel Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1329517468' post='2922812'] The unaligned are not "others", they are nothing. Their only purpose is to serve as food for their betters. It is only through joining and being in a real alliance an individual gains worth.[/quote] Interesting...maybe it will change in the future or not Edited February 17, 2012 by the rebel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurunin Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Velocity111' timestamp='1329172353' post='2919683'] Hi guys, I posted his link, and now he's in PM. Coincidence? I think not. Especially if you check the time at which he went into PM, as well as the forum post he just made in this topic. Besides Stewie, if I actually thought you were going to raid this guy, I would've sent you the link through other means. Obviously, your being in anarchy makes you unable to raid. And besides, as a raid target, he's not that great... not enough land The point was merely to demonstrate the ease with which one is able to find raids in their range is inversely proportional to their NS [/quote] meh, i was just saying he's on a lot of peoples' !@#$ lists edit: sorry for long gap in responses, been busy Edited February 17, 2012 by Lurunin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Chocolate Posted February 18, 2012 Report Share Posted February 18, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1329517468' post='2922812'] The unaligned are not "others", they are nothing. Their only purpose is to serve as food for their betters. It is only through joining and being in a real alliance an individual gains worth. [/quote] Now, here is an example of a statement showing what, imo, is the real politics behind a "tech raid" vs war. And this being the case, what does it say to an alliance if/when they are "tech raided" (other than by new nations that do not get the difference) as opposed to being declared war on? [quote name='the rebel' timestamp='1329517823' post='2922814'] Interesting...maybe it will change in the future or not [/quote] The non-aligned will always be nothing. It's join an alliance or risk be "raided" continually, unless you happen to have nukes in which case you're raided only every once in awhile. Some non-aligned think it's worth the consequences, which I can respect I suppose, but it will not change. Fine by me, why help someone who can't commit to helping you. Raiding alliances as in this case (let's keep it at least somewhat on topic please) on the other hand is an insult to that alliance and potentially far more risky to the group doing the raiding. Edited February 18, 2012 by White Chocolate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sammykhalifa Posted February 18, 2012 Report Share Posted February 18, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Artigo' timestamp='1329508045' post='2922730'] I'd say it's only a war if you're trying to advance a political agenda. Since this is all about personal gain, war isn't really the right word. [/quote] Come on. You're moving your troops into another sovereign nation's borders in order to seize their property through deadly force. People can argue over whether that's "right" or "wrong" or whatever, but it's a war. Edited February 18, 2012 by sammykhalifa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Micheal Malone Posted February 18, 2012 Report Share Posted February 18, 2012 There are other words for taking things by force without the consent of others.... Pillage for instance? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Caparo Posted February 18, 2012 Report Share Posted February 18, 2012 [quote name='Stewie' timestamp='1329225380' post='2920217'] <3 you guys!! Casualties AND beat the crap out of one of our guys who finally learned how important a warchest is [/quote] We <3 you guys to! see! we did have a reason to attack! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artigo Posted February 18, 2012 Report Share Posted February 18, 2012 [quote name='sammykhalifa' timestamp='1329537091' post='2923021'] Come on. You're moving your troops into another sovereign nation's borders in order to seize their property through deadly force. People can argue over whether that's "right" or "wrong" or whatever, but it's a war. [/quote] Police action. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kriekfreak Posted February 18, 2012 Report Share Posted February 18, 2012 Are people still hung up on the word war and raid? Jesus christ. Are you all !@#$@#$ retarded or what? A raid is when you want to do minimum damages while stealing his tech and land. A war is when you do maximum damages to your targets. On a raid you only do Ground attacks. In a war you do a full run of attacks. If people still have problem with this explanation so be it. But I think the sane people around here that know the difference should stop continuing to respond to those that are ignorant or obtuse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the rebel Posted February 18, 2012 Report Share Posted February 18, 2012 [quote name='kriekfreak' timestamp='1329599062' post='2923536'] If people still have problem with this explanation so be it. But I think the sane people around here that know the difference should stop continuing to respond to those that are ignorant or obtuse.[/quote] You missed out lack of treaties and weak... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Velocity111 Posted February 18, 2012 Report Share Posted February 18, 2012 [quote name='the rebel' timestamp='1329599736' post='2923545'] You missed out lack of treaties and weak... [/quote] Those have to do with the quality of the targets, rather than the methods of the attacks themselves. I.e., people can (and have) raided targets larger than them, and people have raided targets with treaties (but this always ends badly) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhyd3r Posted February 19, 2012 Report Share Posted February 19, 2012 Of course it's a war. It just doesn't have that much gravity since the purpose is obviously a tech raid rather than something more substantial. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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