DoW Notification

[kevin32891]

Yeah but I like NG so I don't care.

[White Chocolate]

[quote name='Ardus' timestamp='1328994285' post='2918572']That's why I don't split the difference and instead support all of it.[/quote]

A fine example of the only type of "evil" thinking that I can respect. Not saying it's correct, but at least I "get" the argument.

[quote name='Ardus' timestamp='1328994285' post='2918572']
Allow me to raise a question to you: what's the difference between raiding 30 unaffiliated people and 30 affiliated, but unconnected people? The only difference I see is that the affiliated individuals are more likely to present coordinated resistance. In that sense, it's more fair for Non Grata to raid 30 affiliated people, who may well defend themselves in a competent manner, than 30 people floating about on "none," who never have a chance. I'm not settled on the question yet, but it is an amusing and relevant thought.[/quote]

Calling a "raid" (really an undeclared war) by a 212 nation alliance ranked number 9 against a 31 member rank 64 (cool - AGW Overlords are ranked higher than I would have guessed) alliance as "more fair" than "raiding" 30 non-aligned is a classic Planet Bob spin of the highest order.

It's not "more fair" - it's just more entertaining. "More fair" would be "tech raiding" the rank 8 or 10 alliances.

Edited February 11, 2012 by White Chocolate

[enderland]

[quote name='kriekfreak' timestamp='1328998021' post='2918601']
When someone told me Gramlins were no longer moralist whiny !@#$bags I believed him even though I was under the impression they still were. Sadly, I was right all along.
[/quote]

Guilty conscience?

I simply posted this thread as a heads up to the world at large (if you follow the "silent treaty cancellations" thread you'll see I am opposed to silent political actions, and a declaration of war against a 30 member alliance is definitely one of them).

If you feel simple notification is a "moralist" crusade, perhaps you should consider why this would be the case.

[Ernesto Che Guevara]

I see a lot of bickering in this thread about almost everything related (and some things unrelated) to this topic. Want to know the hilarious part? The only person not !@#$%*ing and complaining right now is a member of AGW Overlords. If they want to complain, they'll surely come here and do it.

[quote name='fidpicker' timestamp='1328989135' post='2918507']
I have fallen into the pay bills, improvement swap, and collect taxes rut with some tech deals in between. I was not happy to see this little tech raid when I logged in today, and was even more upset when I retaliated and didn't plan it at all. My war skills are obviously a little rusty since I haven't joined in on the TE fun for a while now.
Anyway, I don't think I am going to roll over and just give my tech away. This may be just what AGW needed. War declared by a much larger alliance with significantly larger nations and higher numbers, I think we need to decrease their nation strength a bit. Anyone else out there with me? Seems to me if they could fight they wouldn't be "raiding" someone they thought would be such easy targets. I would find it hard to be proud of a battle I won when the other nation was sleeping and 1/3rd my size. But I would take the free tech all the same.
[/quote]

Much respect for this guy. I only wish more of Bob's citizens took a similar approach to warfare.

[steodonn]

[quote name='fidpicker' timestamp='1328989135' post='2918507']
I have fallen into the pay bills, improvement swap, and collect taxes rut with some tech deals in between. I was not happy to see this little tech raid when I logged in today, and was even more upset when I retaliated and didn't plan it at all. My war skills are obviously a little rusty since I haven't joined in on the TE fun for a while now.
Anyway, I don't think I am going to roll over and just give my tech away. This may be just what AGW needed. War declared by a much larger alliance with significantly larger nations and higher numbers, I think we need to decrease their nation strength a bit. Anyone else out there with me? Seems to me if they could fight they wouldn't be "raiding" someone they thought would be such easy targets. I would find it hard to be proud of a battle I won when the other nation was sleeping and 1/3rd my size. But I would take the free tech all the same.
[/quote]

Thats the spirit

[SirWilliam]

Thank god you posted this 'notification', enderland. Planet Bob would've been lost without it.

(The 'Where's the DoW HURRR' act? Bravo.)

[Artigo]

Not a single AGW whined, yet it seems like half of Bob is crying at this. Well I guess just pout, because you got your way.

o/ Backcollecting

[Zoomzoomzoom]

[quote name='enderland' timestamp='1329004684' post='2918661']
Guilty conscience?

I simply posted this thread as a heads up to the world at large (if you follow the "silent treaty cancellations" thread you'll see I am opposed to silent political actions, and a declaration of war against a 30 member alliance is definitely one of them).

If you feel simple notification is a "moralist" crusade, perhaps you should consider why this would be the case.
[/quote]

It was a raid. That is it. If it were a true war AGW's slots would all be full at this point and there would have been a topic about it from us. That has been our standard operating procedure.

This raid had no organized movement within NG thus making it a raid, not a war.

[IYIyTh]

[quote name='Ardus' timestamp='1328994285' post='2918572']
I don't have a next "big thing", Myth. I'm happily retired. And if I did have a "big thing", I wouldn't unveil it in a handful of sentences here. It'd be in the form of a wall of text on somebody's embassy.


[/quote]

Or you could just, you know, tell us and not make us wait two days.

[White Chocolate]

[quote name='Zoomzoomzoom' timestamp='1329009594' post='2918690']
It was a raid. That is it. If it were a true war AGW's slots would all be full at this point and there would have been a topic about it from us. That has been our standard operating procedure.

This raid had no organized movement within NG thus making it a raid, not a war.
[/quote]

Is there organized military action against an alliance? yes
Was it approved by government specifically against that alliance? yes

A war does not have to involve a specific number of people or full war slots. It also doesn't have to involve an official declaration.

I love how people on Planet Bob want so much to make a distinction between war and "tech raids." I understand that in some people's way of thinking - one is okay while the other is not - but I never got that reasoning.

This is, apparently, the latest way in the politics of Planet Bob to justify aggressive actions. If the trend continues, in about a year or so we will have no more war - just "large scale raiding" all over the place. Do people really want that world?

Personally, I don't have a problem with war declarations. Declare war on non-aligned if that's what your alliance allows. Declare war on alliances of X or Y size. As long as it doesn't involve me or my allies - so be it. But everyone needs to get over their fear (I really have no idea what else it could be) of calling war what it is.

[Velocity111]

[quote name='White Chocolate' timestamp='1329013159' post='2918734']
Is there organized military action against an alliance? yes
Was it approved by government specifically against that alliance? yes

A war does not have to involve a specific number of people or full war slots. It also doesn't have to involve an official declaration.

I love how people on Planet Bob want so much to make a distinction between war and "tech raids." I understand that in some people's way of thinking - one is okay while the other is not - but I never got that reasoning.

This is, apparently, the latest way in the politics of Planet Bob to justify aggressive actions. If the trend continues, in about a year or so we will have no more war - just "large scale raiding" all over the place. Do people really want that world?

Personally, I don't have a problem with war declarations. Declare war on non-aligned if that's what your alliance allows. Declare war on alliances of X or Y size. As long as it doesn't involve me or my allies - so be it. But everyone needs to get over their fear (I really have no idea what else it could be) of calling war what it is.
[/quote]
The difference is the level of the attacks and the ease of achieving peace. In war, all attacks are used, including cm/air/ground/spy/navy/nukes (first strike allowed). Additionally, peace is not typically sent after every set of attacks in war. In tech raids, only ground attacks are used and peace is sent afterwards.

But sure, ignoring that they're essentially the same.

[Ardus]

[quote name='IYIyTh' timestamp='1329009929' post='2918693']
Or you could just, you know, tell us and not make us wait two days.
[/quote]
You simply have no sense of showmanship.

[Zoomzoomzoom]

[quote name='White Chocolate' timestamp='1329013159' post='2918734']
Is there organized military action against an alliance? yes
[/quote]

Stopped reading here.

Unless you think it takes two hours for a third person to join in on an ~organized~ war in NG (8 hours for a fourth person), it was not organized.

[Omniscient1]

Someone catch me up, I assume NG is continuing their raid despite Sparta's (basically) protection over AGW?

Edited February 12, 2012 by Omniscient1

[King Louis the II]

[quote name='Omniscient1' timestamp='1329016202' post='2918783']
Someone catch me up, I assume NG is continuing their raid despite Sparta's (basically) protection over AGW?
[/quote]

Sparta wants to find a solution that would fit well for both parties and to avoid that AGW become vulnerable for actions like that in the future.

Edited February 12, 2012 by King Louis the II

[Stewie]

[quote name='Omniscient1' timestamp='1329016202' post='2918783']
Someone catch me up, I assume NG is continuing their raid despite Sparta's (basically) protection over AGW?
[/quote]

If you notice a lot of our guys are peacing out their targets. We've agreed with Sparta to end the raid now and await the remaining AGW nations to peace out.

I apologise however that we have had a few guys who've only looked in game and hadn't been to our forums (YYM, SouthernC, King Aragorn) and they have all been talked to.

[Omniscient1]

[quote name='King Louis the II' timestamp='1329019561' post='2918825']
Sparta wants to find a solution that would fit well for both parties and to avoid that AGW become vulnerable for actions like that in the future.
[/quote]
[quote name='Stewie' timestamp='1329019899' post='2918829']
If you notice a lot of our guys are peacing out their targets. We've agreed with Sparta to end the raid now and await the remaining AGW nations to peace out.

I apologise however that we have had a few guys who've only looked in game and hadn't been to our forums (YYM, SouthernC, King Aragorn) and they have all been talked to.
[/quote]

Ok thanks, just trying to catch up.

[Sardonic]

[quote name='Kzoppistan' timestamp='1328928147' post='2918118']
I just did something.

Now what?






Ha ha, I just made a bunch of people check their screens. Lol.
[/quote]

[quote name='Kzoppistan' timestamp='1328973798' post='2918368']
Ha ha, you don't know me, do you?
[/quote]

[quote name='Kzoppistan' timestamp='1328989829' post='2918513']
For NG's sake, that had better be just a rumor.
[/quote]
Watch out guys, we've got a badass over here.

[Steve Buscemi]

[quote name='Bob Janova' timestamp='1328973048' post='2918362']
Yeah, obviously I didn't [i]really[/i] expect PB to show any class. There aren't enough quality alliances in it to actually stand up for something. When we were working on it in VE I had hopes for FOK and Umbrella, but both have clearly shown their hand as being on the amoral side since then.


I thought you guys were in the 'non-nuclear war is for wusses' camp. I guess you're just self-serving hypocrites.
[/quote]
Trust me when I say that our guys would looooove for this to go full-on nuclear. The problem isn't NG's fear of nukes, it's their love for receiving them and killing off their people when their anti-raiding Tri, little ole me, would rather rebuild tech and warchests.

[Kzoppistan]

[quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1329032251' post='2918914']
Watch out guys, we've got a badass over here.
[/quote]

[img]http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/198/020/BRTky.jpg?1320962111[/img]

Lol, that's me, alright. It's only funny because everyone knows I'm a dove of the whitest feather.

[quote name='Steve Buscemi' timestamp='1329032755' post='2918916']
Trust me when I say that our guys would looooove for this to go full-on nuclear. The problem isn't NG's fear of nukes, it's their love for receiving them and killing off their people when their anti-raiding Tri, little ole me, would rather rebuild tech and warchests.
[/quote]

You monster.

Edited February 12, 2012 by Kzoppistan

[White Chocolate]

[quote name='Velocity111' timestamp='1329014692' post='2918755']
The difference is the level of the attacks and the ease of achieving peace. In war, all attacks are used, including cm/air/ground/spy/navy/nukes (first strike allowed). Additionally, peace is not typically sent after every set of attacks in war. In tech raids, only ground attacks are used and peace is sent afterwards.

But sure, ignoring that they're essentially the same.
[/quote]

What is typical or not during a war has nothing to do with whether or not a war was declared. How one runs the war is a matter of what one wants to accomplish by the war. I've offered peace before in a war. After my two attacks my opponent was already in anarchy and I figured it would be nice to free up the attack slot for someone else. What you're talking about are tactics - not the difference between a war and a "tech raid."

If people really want to get into it - the traditional difference is that a "tech raid" happens against a group that by "common practice" is not an alliance by most alliances standards. That being an average of 16 members or less and NOT having a protector.

NG hasn't been arguing that because you can't. What I don't get though is why bother with trying to make a distinction at all.

[kriekfreak]

[quote name='enderland' timestamp='1329004684' post='2918661']
Guilty conscience?

I simply posted this thread as a heads up to the world at large (if you follow the "silent treaty cancellations" thread you'll see I am opposed to silent political actions, and a declaration of war against a 30 member alliance is definitely one of them).

If you feel simple notification is a "moralist" crusade, perhaps you should consider why this would be the case.
[/quote]

Guilty conscience what? We didn't DoW on them, this wasn't government sanctioned. What we have here is a few NG guys that are techraiding. Like others have said, if we wanted to DoW on them we would have. We would then posted a DoW, filled all their slots and done air strikes, cm's and whatnot too. This didn't happen. Sure, your subjective self might see this as a DoW but don't waste our time with this.

All I got out of this topic is that Gramlins are indeed still the same whiny fags as you always were. Mr Janova taking the icing on the cake when it comes to this. It's funny though because Bob didn't seem to have any problems with GOONS or NG when he was still in VE.

[kriekfreak]

[quote name='White Chocolate' timestamp='1329060155' post='2919006']
What is typical or not during a war has nothing to do with whether or not a war was declared. How one runs the war is a matter of what one wants to accomplish by the war. I've offered peace before in a war. After my two attacks my opponent was already in anarchy and I figured it would be nice to free up the attack slot for someone else. What you're talking about are tactics - not the difference between a war and a "tech raid."

If people really want to get into it - the traditional difference is that a "tech raid" happens against a group that by "common practice" is not an alliance by most alliances standards. That being an average of 16 members or less and NOT having a protector.

NG hasn't been arguing that because you can't. What I don't get though is why bother with trying to make a distinction at all.
[/quote]

Apparently you can't tell the difference between a raid (not out to destroy the opponent) and a fullscale war (in which you are out to do maximum damage against your opponent. And don't tell me this is just NG's definition on raiding because this is shared by I'm guessing 90% of Planet Bob.

[Monster]

Janova is full of crap as usual, but he did raise !@#$ against GOONS and NG while in PB.

Edited February 12, 2012 by Roquentin

[enderland]

[quote name='kriekfreak' timestamp='1329060162' post='2919007']Sure, your subjective self might see this as a DoW but don't waste our time with this. [/quote]

I'm not forcing you to post here. If it's a waste of your time feel free to not post?

[quote]All I got out of this topic is that Gramlins are indeed still the same whiny fags as you always were. Mr Janova taking the icing on the cake when it comes to this. It's funny though because Bob didn't seem to have any problems with GOONS or NG when he was still in VE.
[/quote]

Thanks!