Alaric Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 Congrat's on peace! [quote]3. A ban on techraiding of any nation part of an AA with more then 1 nation (with the exception of "None").[/quote] I like this. Baby steps, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibsonator21 Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 [quote name='Mathias' timestamp='1307570550' post='2727306'] Can we please put to rest the arguments that UINE didn't put up resistance in negotiations and that they wanted these changes? In regards to the former, UINE is incompetent. That's why this whole situation occurred, and the fact that they don't know how to negotiate just shows that R&R needlessly took advantage of that. As far as the latter is concerned, it doesn't matter that UINE wanted them. If they wanted them, they would put the changes in place. R&R has no right to run UINE, even if they're running it how the membership would like. [/quote] They did put up resistance. One example: R&R wanted Keve out of government permanently; UINE didn't, so they compromised to remove him temporarily. There's more, that's just one example of negotiations where there was a compromise made. And if UINE is incompetent, then they wouldn't have put any changes in place. So R&R (I guess) decided to push them in the right direction. If it's what they want, then who cares? If they're that incompetent, then chances are they would not have taken the initiative to fix themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diabloz Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 [quote name='Mathias' timestamp='1307570550' post='2727306'] Can we please put to rest the arguments that UINE didn't put up resistance in negotiations and that they wanted these changes? In regards to the former, UINE is incompetent. That's why this whole situation occurred, and the fact that they don't know how to negotiate just shows that R&R needlessly took advantage of that. As far as the latter is concerned, it doesn't matter that UINE wanted them. If they wanted them, they would put the changes in place. R&R has no right to run UINE, even if they're running it how the membership would like. [/quote] Wise words. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dochartaigh Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Stealthkill' timestamp='1307570160' post='2727300'] Doch, you caught us. We knew what we were asking was completely unreasonable and totally immoral (even though we received little negotiating resistance from UINE), but our almighty leader Xiphosis demanded that only Liz may decide what surrender terms we issued. She's a tyrant I say! A tyrant! We tried to get out of them, that's why we accepted every change UINE requested, but it just wasn't enough! We're helpless! Please don't take your anger out on us, we're powerless meatshields. Please free us from the clench of our overlord Xiphosis and his mistress! Save us Dochartaigh, you're our only hope. [/quote] And yet another post that does nothing to actually dispute anything and only offers a distraction instead. Nor did I ever state anything about Xiphosis or Liz. [quote name='IYIyTh' timestamp='1307571393' post='2727317'] Hold the presses! I was completely disturbed at the lack of responsibility UINE itself took for the entire situation, and to say that has been assuaged in my mind would be a lie. UINE members in this thread started saying that at no point during the entire duration of the three day "conflict," did they throw their leader under the bus. I made the connection from UINE's MoFA's comments minutes after war had been declared in UINE's public channel proved otherwise. I was met with two seperate responses, one that "Well it was a hectic situation," and "People are allowed to change their mind." Neither refute my original statement. I think you're insinuating I actually made a comment to the affect of what I feel about the terms, when my comments have all been addressing my lack of regard for UINE's handling of the entire situation, before, during, and after. Read into that however you like. Edit: No, nothing was taken out of context. Hopefully you've learned, granted, any government is better than the previous from what I've seen here. [/quote] "Thank you R&R for helping provide them with a term to get out of a loophole in their charter that they publicly expressed wanted to happen anyway to the world minutes after being declared on." Edited June 8, 2011 by Dochartaigh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AAAAAAAAAAGGGG Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 Why would anyone want to make theirs or someone elses alliance more democratic? That's a terrible idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REGHAR73 Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 [quote name='Gibsonator21' timestamp='1307571810' post='2727320'] They did put up resistance. One example: R&R wanted Keve out of government permanently; UINE didn't, so they compromised to remove him temporarily. There's more, that's just one example of negotiations where there was a compromise made. And if UINE is incompetent, then they wouldn't have put any changes in place. So R&R (I guess) decided to push them in the right direction. If it's what they want, then who cares? If they're that incompetent, then chances are they would not have taken the initiative to fix themselves. [/quote] I love how people comment when they have nothing but conceptional ideas around what actually happened in the negotiations. Gibsonator spot on. If the UINE didn't negotiate the terms would have been much harder. As the original terms are not released how can anyone possibly comment except RnR(AiD) and UINE(Polaris). I suggest to those not involved that the show is over go back to your bit of Planet Bob and get on with your lives. What is done is done and all this posturing and needless discussion is tiresome. The negative energy you all display at times is worrying and in some cases getting a girlfriend might be advisable, in others get a piece of rope and go string yourself up somewhere. To the others who have made constructive comment and goodwishes. Salute. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xiphosis Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 [quote name='Comrade Craig' timestamp='1307506761' post='2726648'] The irony of it all. The killing of thousands, perhaps even millions of people -- this is acceptable to the critics in the thread -- but to demand that an alliance modify its behavior -- [i]THAT[/i] is an intolerable violation of sovereignty! Oh, the horror of dethroning a failed emperor! Kill the people, burn the cities, but spare the leaders! If that is what passes for "moralism" then I am indeed a proud member of the immoral camp. [/quote] I am terribly unused to you showing emotion, but that was well said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlinus Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 [i]"The negative energy you all display at times is worrying and in some cases getting a girlfriend might be advisable, in others get a piece of rope and go string yourself up somewhere."[/i] Given your aa, and the incredibly poor reflection it is bringing to the planet, this just simply could not be worse form. Incredible way to disregard your alliance, especially now. Just incredible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stealthkill Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 [quote name='Dochartaigh' timestamp='1307572045' post='2727325'] And yet another post that does nothing to actually dispute anything and only offers a distraction instead. Nor did I ever state anything about Xiphosis or Liz. [/quote] You're insinuating that anything that you post is worth reading and/or disputing. You offer arguments that I find to be laughable and a joke, so naturally I assumed that you were simply joking, therefore I responded with something equally absurd and laughable. My apologies that this wasn't clear Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thrash Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 [quote name='Mathias' timestamp='1307570550' post='2727306'] R&R has no right to run UINE, even if they're running it how the membership would like. [/quote] I think that about sums it up. I'm agreeing with a Shroom, the horror of it all! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tygaland Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 [quote name='supercoolyellow' timestamp='1307547095' post='2726992'] I was just hoping this would turn into a Val/STA thread [/quote] It doesn't count as a wish granted when you are the only one going on about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathias Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 [quote name='Gibsonator21' timestamp='1307571810' post='2727320'] They did put up resistance. One example: R&R wanted Keve out of government permanently; UINE didn't, so they compromised to remove him temporarily. There's more, that's just one example of negotiations where there was a compromise made. And if UINE is incompetent, then they wouldn't have put any changes in place. So R&R (I guess) decided to push them in the right direction. If it's what they want, then who cares? If they're that incompetent, then chances are they would not have taken the initiative to fix themselves. [/quote] Wow, so UINE was able to stop a forced expulsion. Clearly they're masters of diplomacy. Like I said in the post you quoted, it doesn't matter if UINE wants the change or is or isn't capable of implementing them. R&R overstepped it's bound when it made them a term of surrender. UINE had a botched tech raid and failed to pay for it. Can you honestly say the punishment fits the crime here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IYIyTh Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 [quote name='Dochartaigh' timestamp='1307572045' post='2727325'] "Thank you R&R for helping provide them with a term to get out of a loophole in their charter that they publicly expressed wanted to happen anyway to the world minutes after being declared on." [/quote] Yes, nowhere in that is there any indication of how I or as you insinuate the alliance I represent feels about the terms, which is quite irrelivant. Sardonically mocking the UINE responses that the removal of Keve was not something they wanted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibsonator21 Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 [quote name='Mathias' timestamp='1307575637' post='2727365'] Wow, so UINE was able to stop a forced expulsion. Clearly they're masters of diplomacy. Like I said in the post you quoted, it doesn't matter if UINE wants the change or is or isn't capable of implementing them. R&R overstepped it's bound when it made them a term of surrender. UINE had a botched tech raid and failed to pay for it. Can you honestly say the punishment fits the crime here? [/quote] They disputed other terms and R&R just gave it to them. They negotiated. They brought the terms down. You claimed they didn't put up any resistance - they obviously did. It's how you see it, I guess. I see it as R&R giving UINE a helping hand since they [likely] weren't going to take the initiative to get rid of Keve themselves. They're a better alliance without Keve as leader. So yes, I can say the "punishment" fits the crime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeroofTime55 Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 I thought terms like these were put in the distant past. RnR, you worked hard to stay in a shell distant from the political stage; If this is going to be your first performance, it is extraordinarily disappointing. You've lost my respect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathias Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 [quote name='Gibsonator21' timestamp='1307576058' post='2727367'] They disputed other terms and R&R just gave it to them. They negotiated. They brought the terms down. You claimed they didn't put up any resistance - they obviously did. It's how you see it, I guess. I see it as R&R giving UINE a helping hand since they [likely] weren't going to take the initiative to get rid of Keve themselves. They're a better alliance without Keve as leader. So yes, I can say the "punishment" fits the crime. [/quote] We all know Keve is a terrible leader (that's why we're here), but if UINE wants him out that's UINE's prerogative. It's a matter of principle. You don't interfere in an alliance's inner workings and if you do you're wrong. It's as simple as that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2burnt2eat Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 [quote name='REGHAR73' timestamp='1307572608' post='2727331'] I love how people comment when they have nothing but conceptional ideas around what actually happened in the negotiations. Gibsonator spot on. If the UINE didn't negotiate the terms would have been much harder. As the original terms are not released how can anyone possibly comment except RnR(AiD) and UINE(Polaris). I suggest to those not involved that the show is over go back to your bit of Planet Bob and get on with your lives. What is done is done and all this posturing and needless discussion is tiresome. The negative energy you all display at times is worrying and in some cases getting a girlfriend might be advisable, in others get a piece of rope and go string yourself up somewhere. To the others who have made constructive comment and goodwishes. Salute. [/quote] Woah, did you just tell us to shut up, get a girlfriend, or commit suicide? I'm speechless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flak attack Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 [quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1307576401' post='2727372']You've lost my respect. [/quote] What a tragedy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeroofTime55 Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 [quote name='flak attack' timestamp='1307577147' post='2727381'] What a tragedy. [/quote] I seriously need to start running a betting pool as to which alliance is going to make the first snide remarks at my posts. Honestly, that could be a profitable venture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omniscient1 Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 Congrats on peace UINE and good show RnR. [quote]Any form of aggression from UINE towards R&R or her allies may be considered an act of war.[/quote] Yea that's usually what happens...... don't really think that needs to be a term. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibsonator21 Posted June 9, 2011 Report Share Posted June 9, 2011 [quote name='Mathias' timestamp='1307576844' post='2727377'] We all know Keve is a terrible leader (that's why we're here), but if UINE wants him out that's UINE's prerogative. It's a matter of principle. You don't interfere in an alliance's inner workings and if you do you're wrong. It's as simple as that. [/quote] We'll just have to agree to disagree I guess. If it helps out the alliance, which everyone seems to agree it does, I see no problems with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathias Posted June 9, 2011 Report Share Posted June 9, 2011 [quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1307577311' post='2727385'] I seriously need to start running a betting pool as to which alliance is going to make the first snide remarks at my posts. Honestly, that could be a profitable venture. [/quote] It wouldn't be because nobody gives a !@#$ about you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeroofTime55 Posted June 9, 2011 Report Share Posted June 9, 2011 [quote name='Mathias' timestamp='1307578057' post='2727393'] It wouldn't be because nobody gives a !@#$ about you. [/quote] People go through an awful lot of effort to tell me that I'm irrelevant and nobody cares. Just saying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dochartaigh Posted June 9, 2011 Report Share Posted June 9, 2011 [quote name='Stealthkill' timestamp='1307573392' post='2727341'] You're insinuating that anything that you post is worth reading and/or disputing. You offer arguments that I find to be laughable and a joke, so naturally I assumed that you were simply joking, therefore I responded with something equally absurd and laughable. My apologies that this wasn't clear [/quote] Basically what I got from this post is that you are basically worthless as a debater and incapable of forming any sort of logical argument thus you must commit ad hominem arguments to make up for your lack of anything resembling logical thought. Thank you for allowing me to finally conclude that your posts need to be ignored since you won't actually attempt to refute anything but will instead act like a complete idiot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeroofTime55 Posted June 9, 2011 Report Share Posted June 9, 2011 [quote name='Gibsonator21' timestamp='1307577728' post='2727389'] We'll just have to agree to disagree I guess. If it helps out the alliance, which everyone seems to agree it does, I see no problems with it. [/quote] I don't agree that it helps them. Maybe RnR has somehow duped UINE into believing that them dipping their hands into multiple affairs reaching far beyond just Keve is somehow "helping" them, but the reality is, that it isn't. It's a gross violation of sovereignty. OOC: Also the reaching beyond IC to say that "every reroll of Keve is also banned" - Wow, really? Are we back in 2007 again? Honestly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.