Alfred von Tirpitz Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 Nope, not a fan of these terms. The 21 million reparations is the only term here that seems sensible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wabooz Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 UINE needs to disband or merge XD You couldnt impeach keve I take it? so you accept these terms.. I wonder how many of them where brought to the table by UINE themselves. Poor show to agree though R&R Of course this could just be a tinfoil hat moment for me, but then in that case.. even poorer show R&R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kochers Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 [quote name='Il Impero Romano' timestamp='1307509617' post='2726702'] What your speaking to in the above is the ethics behind an action and its inherent moral status (I guess), which is a little bit from left field to be honest. Sovereignty though, in a nutshell for this context at least, is freedom from external control. Zero considerations of good, bad, ugly, happy, sad, nice, mean, etc are relevant when speaking to an alliance's sovereignty. [/quote] Yeah, it is a bit from left field. I was trying to take your statement and apply it to a scenario everyone would know/understand. Let me break it down for you: One of the crimes NPO was accused of was infringement on the sovereignty of various alliances at different times. Karma came about (partially) to end NPO's cruel practices, this one included. Now, applying your logic, if NPO's various infringements were done with good intentions (as RnR supposedly are), then the action was actually justifiable/good. However, that is completely contrary to the general thoughts regarding both the NPO's actions and the Karma Coalition's goals. Making sense? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathias Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 [quote name='Hyperion321' timestamp='1307510584' post='2726721'] At least they didn't keep them at war for a couple months just to destroy their one upper tier nation. [/quote] Regardless of what MK has done (because that isn't at all germane to my argument) it's wrong to bully a smaller alliance, but I can even overlook that. What I won't overlook is the fact that R&R is trying to dictate the internal workings of another alliance, and for !@#$%^&* reasons at that. Honestly have the balls to tell your ally they're wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alfred von Tirpitz Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 (edited) on second thought, nevermind. Edited June 8, 2011 by Alfred von Tirpitz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Impero Romano Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Kochers' timestamp='1307511099' post='2726732'] Yeah, it is a bit from left field. I was trying to take your statement and apply it to a scenario everyone would know/understand. Let me break it down for you: One of the crimes NPO was accused of was infringement on the sovereignty of various alliances at different times. Karma came about (partially) to end NPO's cruel practices, this one included. Now, applying your logic, if NPO's various infringements were done with good intentions (as RnR supposedly are), then the action was actually justifiable/good. However, that is completely contrary to the general thoughts regarding both the NPO's actions and the Karma Coalition's goals. Making sense? [/quote] I know where you were going with it, but understand that there is absolutely zero connection between the issues your playing on in your hypo and the word sovereignty save the leading sentence, and the point itself is very far from my original post you first quoted. Good or bad simply has nothing to do with sovereignty as a concept (I think this is the piece your missing), and my post in turn has nothing to do with sovereignty as a concept. Also, remember, intent does not just mean "good or bad" intentions, in most cases its used to refer to a deliberate action made with the desire to bring about a specific result. Sovereignty being relative to the intent of others is true because if I desire to commit an action that will exert outside influence upon you, your sovereignty is relative to my intent and my ability to execute that action. Edited June 8, 2011 by Il Impero Romano Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpacingOutMan Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 lol @ the moralists in this here thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flak attack Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 [quote name='Yankees Empire' timestamp='1307509423' post='2726698'] To be honest, I'm not a fan of these terms. I'm not a fan of meddling in any alliance's internal affairs. If UINE wants keve69 as an awful dictator, that's their right. If they want him out, it's their job to coup him, not R&R's. Also, term 5? Really? "If UINE declares war on R&R or one of R&R's allies, that will be considered an act of war against R&R, and we will declare war on them." O rly? [/quote] You hit the hammer on the head with this one. If UINE wants Keve gone, it's their job to make it happen. RnR shouldn't take it upon themselves to do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panic King Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 The war??? Could of been totally avoided if Kev was a responsible leader. The Peace??? I am glad that this was resolved. The Forced Change of Charter??? This I totally disagree with. What makes and drives an alliance is the government and it's founding document. One alliances' dictation to another to change its' government structure is bad form. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lukapaka Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 What a quick war!!! Good luck to UINE, and hail R&R! I'm proud of you!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacapo Saladin Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Il Impero Romano' timestamp='1307511837' post='2726747'] I know where you were going with it, but understand that there is absolutely zero connection between the issues your playing on in your hypo and the word sovereignty save the leading sentence, and the point itself is very far from my original post you first quoted. Good or bad simply has nothing to do with sovereignty as a concept (I think this is the piece your missing), and my post in turn has nothing to do with sovereignty as a concept. Also, remember, intent does not just mean "good or bad" intentions, in most cases its used to refer to a deliberate action made with the desire to bring about a specific result. Sovereignty being relative to the intent of others is true because if I desire to commit an action that will exert outside influence upon you, your sovereignty is relative to my intent and my ability to execute that action. [/quote] Impero giving [i]others[/i] a lesson in the art of the english language? That's a first. Edited June 8, 2011 by Jacapo Saladin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Pansy Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 [quote name='Rush Sykes' timestamp='1307504988' post='2726602'] Peace is good. Terms are pretty crap tbh. We seem to be headed back to dictating how alliances can be run. Pretty sad to me. [/quote] This man here, he speaks the truth. Glad to see that peace was attained easily, but to impose these changes on a struggling alliance will just serve to push them closer to disbandment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wickedj Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 [quote name='Rush Sykes' timestamp='1307504988' post='2726602'] Peace is good. Terms are pretty crap tbh. We seem to be headed back to dictating how alliances can be run. Pretty sad to me. [/quote] Its an odd day when i have to agree with Rush...but i do Youve sunk to a new low, R&R, im ashamed of you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Systemfailure Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 [quote name='wickedj' timestamp='1307516426' post='2726796'] Its an odd day when i have to agree with Rush...but i do Youve sunk to a new low, R&R, im ashamed of you [/quote] Thriller DoW in 3,2,1... Hope UINE learns and grows from this o/ War o/ R&R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Impero Romano Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Jacapo Saladin' timestamp='1307513435' post='2726770'] Impero giving [i]others[/i] a lesson in the art of the english language? That's a first. [/quote] Hey, as long as we're not talking spelling, apostrophe placement, or over 20 beers. Edited June 8, 2011 by Il Impero Romano Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REGHAR73 Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 [quote name='EgoFreaky' timestamp='1307505136' post='2726613'] Yeah it was considered This was considered too, but then we would actually have to defend them and cover for their screw-ups. We're well aware of how the terms will be received, so a little explanation. After our attack all we got was "omg, we didn't know", "blame keve", "why are you punishing all of us for one persons actions" from member to government. So we looked over everything that happened and decided to fix the problems before it happens again with one of our allies or someone else for that matter. [/quote] Protectorate was never going to happen. I never at any point in our peace negotiations stated blame keve - I said it was Keve's fault and we would fix it. Which we will. We were put into a corner and had no choice but to accept these terms. A nuclear war with no ceasefire during peace talks. For 18 million which we the government would have paid and told you so immediately. So please don't hide the facts. We if necessary will learn from NpO or MCXA not such as RnR after this recent display. All you did was cripple an alliance. That may not have been the intent but it certainly has been the result. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanilla Napalm Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 (edited) [quote name='REGHAR73' timestamp='1307517531' post='2726805'] Protectorate was never going to happen. I never at any point in our peace negotiations stated blame keve - I said it was Keve's fault and we would fix it. Which we will. We were put into a corner and had no choice but to accept these terms. A nuclear war with no ceasefire during peace talks. For 18 million which we the government would have paid and told you so immediately. So please don't hide the facts. We if necessary will learn from NpO or MCXA not such as RnR after this recent display. All you did was cripple an alliance. That may not have been the intent but it certainly has been the result. [/quote] You were a group of five active members with an idle leader and no readily apparent defensive treaties. I don't see an alliance to cripple. Edited June 8, 2011 by Vanilla Napalm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wickedj Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 [quote name='SpacingOutMan' timestamp='1307511891' post='2726749'] lol @ the moralists in this here thread. [/quote] lol @ the new lows you're supporting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IYIyTh Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 (edited) [quote name='REGHAR73' timestamp='1307517531' post='2726805'] Protectorate was never going to happen. I never at any point in our peace negotiations stated blame keve - I said it was Keve's fault and we would fix it. Which we will. We were put into a corner and had no choice but to accept these terms. A nuclear war with no ceasefire during peace talks. For 18 million which we the government would have paid and told you so immediately. So please don't hide the facts. We if necessary will learn from NpO or MCXA not such as RnR after this recent display. All you did was cripple an alliance. That may not have been the intent but it certainly has been the result. [/quote] Oh the horrors of being at war for all of two-three days? Your alliance then threw its leader under the bus in record time. You're kidding right? This guy is good. Edited June 8, 2011 by IYIyTh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Pansy Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 [quote name='IYIyTh' timestamp='1307518296' post='2726814'] Oh the horrors of being at war for all of two-three days? Your alliance then threw its leader under the bus in record time. You're kidding right? This guy is good. [/quote] In fairness IYIyTh, they have just come out of a war which probably rocked their worlds, and had no actual recovery time due to a lack of coordination by their gov in rebuilding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IYIyTh Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 [quote name='The Pansy' timestamp='1307518804' post='2726816'] In fairness IYIyTh, they have just come out of a war which probably rocked their worlds, and had no actual recovery time due to a lack of coordination by their gov in rebuilding. [/quote] Yes, I think that was noted in the Casus Belli somewhere. [i]You know, I see a correlation here. [/i] Thank you R&R for helping provide them with a term to get out of a loophole in their charter that they publicly expressed wanted to happen anyway to the world minutes after being declared on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Pansy Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 [quote name='IYIyTh' timestamp='1307518953' post='2726817'] Yes, I think that was noted in the Casus Belli somewhere. [i]You know, I see a correlation here. [/i] Thank you R&R for helping provide them with a term to get out of a loophole in their charter that they publicly expressed wanted to happen anyway to the world minutes after being declared on. [/quote] I was more pushing the reasoning why they didn't want an elongated war to get better terms, but hey, you'll read into it what you want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DemonSpawn Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 [quote name='REGHAR73' timestamp='1307517531' post='2726805'] Protectorate was never going to happen. I never at any point in our peace negotiations stated blame keve - I said it was Keve's fault and we would fix it. Which we will. We were put into a corner and had no choice but to accept these terms. A nuclear war with no ceasefire during peace talks. For 18 million which we the government would have paid and told you so immediately. So please don't hide the facts. We if necessary will learn from NpO or MCXA not such as RnR after this recent display. All you did was cripple an alliance. That may not have been the intent but it certainly has been the result. [/quote] Then why did you accept the terms? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REGHAR73 Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 [quote name='IYIyTh' timestamp='1307518296' post='2726814'] Oh the horrors of being at war for all of two-three days? Your alliance then threw its leader under the bus in record time. You're kidding right? This guy is good. [/quote] No actually we defended him to the hilt as RnR wanted expulsion from the alliance. Which we would not allow. Get your facts straight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REGHAR73 Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 [quote name='DemonSpawn' timestamp='1307519554' post='2726822'] Then why did you accept the terms? [/quote] RnR left us with no option - why do you think ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.