TOOL Announcement

[Hecate]

[b]Discussion of GOONS is off topic, let's get back on track.[/b]

[Mirreille]

After reading the terms I'm left wondering if TOOL even did 26k tech damage to MK during the war. Getting paid for starting a war is a sure sign of a one-sided conflict & political arena. Nevertheless TOOL accepted these terms, so I am happy for them, and good look rebuilding. Especially Bama.

[Penguin]

[quote name='Mirreille' timestamp='1302559325' post='2688791']
After reading the terms I'm left wondering if TOOL even did 26k tech damage to MK during the war. Getting paid for starting a war is a sure sign of a one-sided conflict & political arena. Nevertheless TOOL accepted these terms, so I am happy for them, and good look rebuilding. Especially Bama.
[/quote]
I don't think there's much doubt of that. Even the heaviest reps pale in comparison to the costs of extending a war to either side (except perhaps in the late, late stages). Many lose sight of the scales involved and emphasize the price of reparations over the vastness of the war damage. Perhaps it's because one is not often avoidable and the other more easily measured. Of course, the one who starts a war is necessarily more willing to shoulder those costs than the one who is dragged in reluctantly and tying up slots will probably hurt more than the actual numerical value further masking the actual price of these terms.

Edited April 11, 2011 by Penguin

[bakamitai]

Glad you got peace. Also, HI MIA

[Bob Janova]

[quote]recall that you called TOOL a hypocritical alliance, not Alterego a hypocritical poster[/quote]
Hm, I think you are misreading something there, I have no problem with TOOL.

[quote]It seems you ought to be thrilled that so many of the alliances you defeated now take the mantle up themselves, even considering a sizable percentage of them are perhaps just saying it as propaganda and have not taken it to heart.[/quote]
Most of them have offered no evidence that they really mean it. Valhalla? Yes, they seem to be sincere. TPF? Maybe, although they lost so much power in Karma (directly and through loss of allies' strength) that it would be impossible to be oppressive any more so it's hard to tell. NpO? No, in Bipolar you showed that a glimpse of power is all it takes to betray a coalition, and this war that you'll send a spy into perceived hostile alliances if offered. NPO? Well, Doomhouse clearly didn't think so, and while I don't agree with attacking them, I do agree with that perception.

[quote]Now we did agree to these terms, so I don't think they're terrible but I'd like to mention that we're not a selling alliance.[/quote]
Hm ok you have less small nations than I thought. My mistake on that one. Still, as you say, they aren't terrible, though it makes them rather more punitive than I thought (it's essentially taking 26k tech directly away from you instead of just using up surplus capacity).

[quote]Would you care to remind me again why exactly I have "no right" to point out injustice when I see it?[/quote]
Because you were the worst kind of Hegemony hanger-on – an aggressive TPF protectorate, when TPF itself was using other people's power for aggression – for your entire career the first time round. 64d jumped into every Continuum aggressive war it could get its hands on. For you to call other people out for a milder version of what you actively participated in at every opportunity is ridiculous hypocrisy.

[Penguin]

[quote name='Bob Janova' timestamp='1302565499' post='2688877']
Hm, I think you are misreading something there, I have no problem with TOOL.

Most of them have offered no evidence that they really mean it. Valhalla? Yes, they seem to be sincere. TPF? Maybe, although they lost so much power in Karma (directly and through loss of allies' strength) that it would be impossible to be oppressive any more so it's hard to tell. NpO? No, in Bipolar you showed that a glimpse of power is all it takes to betray a coalition, and this war that you'll send a spy into perceived hostile alliances if offered. NPO? Well, Doomhouse clearly didn't think so, and while I don't agree with attacking them, I do agree with that perception.[/quote]
You say I'm the one misreading but then you go back to rattling off alliances again. Perhaps you didn't mean TOOL, but replace the alliance name and the rest of my point stands.

Edited April 11, 2011 by Penguin

[BamaBuc]

[quote name='Mirreille' timestamp='1302559325' post='2688791']
After reading the terms I'm left wondering if TOOL even did 26k tech damage to MK during the war. Getting paid for starting a war is a sure sign of a one-sided conflict & political arena. Nevertheless TOOL accepted these terms, so I am happy for them, and good look rebuilding. Especially Bama.
[/quote]
Thanks Mirreille!

And thanks to everyone who has wished us well. We appreciate your support.

-Bama

[Kochers]

Congrats on peace and rebuilding TOOL. I wish you well.

[HeroofTime55]

[quote name='Bob Janova' timestamp='1302565499' post='2688877']
Because you were the worst kind of Hegemony hanger-on – an aggressive TPF protectorate, when TPF itself was using other people's power for aggression – for your entire career the first time round. 64d jumped into every Continuum aggressive war it could get its hands on. For you to call other people out for a milder version of what you actively participated in at every opportunity is ridiculous hypocrisy.
[/quote]
Oh, hi.

We were involved in BAPS, where I played a key role in making sure a lunatic noWedge didn't keep TDSM8 under EZI (EZI being a practice I have *always* disagreed with, as historical records can prove). We took reps from TDSM8, something that was done when I was a new leader in this world, following in the steps of those in charge, something I regret ever having done, and I personally apologized to Stumpy for the matter. I've since refined our position, and established a firm stance against collecting 'spoils of war.'

We were involved against GPA, having a legitimate CB to enter that, namely, GPA lying to my face about harboring a man we were looking for. [OOC]I need to add an OOC clarification here, I forget what his name was but he had threatened to 'hack' my computer and other criminal activity, so, you know, you can understand, before you jump up and shout "ah ha but you said you were against ezi!!!!11!1"... Actually, no less than 2 GPA presidents had made such threats against me in a short time frame.[/OOC]. We left that war with mutual white peace with GPA. At least I think it was.

We were involved in WoTC, against STA. We took reps, again as I was a young leader and knew not what I was doing, and I have also personally apologized to Tyga and STA.

Both Tyga and Stumpy accepted the apologies, and as far as STA is concerned, I fully intend to repay that debt, voluntarily, when I am able to. Quite frankly, I don't need nor want your forgiveness when I have that of those I actually harmed with my beginner's mistakes.

The next war 64Digits was involved in was Karma, during my absence, when we were one of the last alliances to leave. Perhaps my nation vanishing off the face of the planet doesn't count in your eyes as a personal purification by fire, and I can understand that, but I've demonstrated with this war that what we did in Karma wasn't a fluke.

So, uhhh, no, you're wrong, just spouting the same senile nonsense you have been for the last few months. But hey, if you want to count two noobish errors when I was a young leader, plus one fully justified war, as a "more extreme" version of this unwarranted and unjustified aggression/extortion from you and your cronies, then, uh, OK. Sure, I'm an evil evil man! I'm friendly with Pacifica, after all, history aside, that's enough to prove I'm cold and heartless, and thus have no right to speak my mind. Perhaps you should use force to enforce your belief that I have no right to free speech, it's not like your ilk don't do that on a daily basis nowadays.

[i]The supreme irony, though, is that I don't really even think that these terms are too bad.[/i] Numbers aside, they are, relatively speaking, generous, with a mandated 3 month period where TOOL can do as they wish, followed by no deadline on when payments must be completed - TOOL is at leisure to do things at their own pace. Not that it makes it right, but, you know, relatively speaking to what the rest of us are getting smacked with.

So, uh, yeah. Keep pulling up ancient history as an excuse to persecute. Falls right in line with the twisted mentality of your whole side. No, seriously, people see the lot of you as a bigger and bigger joke every day, people like you, Bob, are some of the best PR assets we have over here. Keep up the good work!

[Sandwich Controversy]

[quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1302567382' post='2688899']
So, uh, yeah. Keep pulling up ancient history as an excuse to persecute. Falls right in line with the twisted mentality of your whole side. No, seriously, people see the lot of you as a bigger and bigger joke every day, people like you, Bob, are some of the best PR assets we have over here. Keep up the good work!
[/quote]
Please name some of these people thanks

Edited April 12, 2011 by Sandwich Controversy

[Judge X]

Thanks for the help guys.

o/ TOOL
No/ DH

[Drai]

[quote name='BamaBuc' timestamp='1302551860' post='2688687']
You are incorrect.

-Bama
[/quote]
Well I know GOONS offered it on the OWF and we backed GOONS so maybe we didn't come to you specifically but the offer was certainly existent. If you still believe that's wrong I'm more than willing to hear why as my memory isn't perfect.
[quote name='the dakotans' timestamp='1302558443' post='2688778']
I wont speak for the coalition but TOOLs first offer was 30,000 tech in the form of 3m/100tech paid within 60 days. We did not receive the 0 reps offer/minimal, ever. Now this could be because we didn't ask MK for peace as a separate party during the "early days" but still if we weren't aware of the offer than it didn't exist.

Edit: It's rather irrelevant though, it's not like we would have accepted it at that time heh.
[/quote]
I gather this is what Bama was saying above. That is, as I mentioned in the original post, not in the few days after that GOONS post was made but rather a few rounds of fighting down the road. Again it appears as though we didn't directly come to you guys at the time of the white peace offer, nor did you come to us, but the offer was certainly out there to the best of my knowledge.

Perhaps Lebubu or Ardus had different terms for TOOL even at that time in which case I apologize for my incorect recollection. It's been a bit of a task keeping track of 12+ alliances.

Edited April 12, 2011 by Drai

[CEverettKoop]

Hold on fellas, we missed a gold nugget here

[quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1302501307' post='2688397']
As a by-product of my studies as a mathematician and logician
[/quote]

[quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1302501307' post='2688397']
[size="4"]my studies as a mathematician and logician
[/size][/quote]

[quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1302501307' post='2688397']
[size="6"]a mathematician and logician
[/size][/quote]

Thank goodness you're still studying these topics. I'd hate to think you'd consider yourself a master of logic.

[Haflinger]

[quote name='Bob Janova' timestamp='1302550243' post='2688673']
This isn't about people and their predecessors, this is about the [i]people[/i] now taking shots at 'our side' (Haflinger, Alterego, HoT, etc) who tied themselves into what they complain about now. I mean, there's really nothing to complain about in forcing a natural seller alliance to sell some tech.
[/quote]
You used to agree with me a lot when we were both tied into the same thing, Bob. How people forget.

Also you might want to take another look at my posts in this thread; I haven't been critical of these terms actually, altho the wording struck me as a bit poor.

[mrwuss]

[quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1302555695' post='2688731']
Would you care to remind me again why exactly I have "no right" to point out injustice when I see it? Or is it that you just don't like being reminded of the crimes you are conducting?

[hr]
As a side note, to GOONS - I never hated you, until now. The massive volumes of uneducated, loud-mouthed nooblets talking out their asses is starting to really piss me off. Perhaps, I guess, if your goal was to come off as having the absolute stupidest member-base, and to run what little you had left of your reputation straight into the ground, I can see how this would achieve such illustrious goals as those. But for Admin's sake, I know those of you in charge of this crapfest have a couple of neurons to rub together, can you please gag and/or educate these children? At least make them tow party lines that can be vaguely supported by fact, instead of having them leave all over the place whatever creative little fecal nuggets they dream up on the spot? Please?
[/quote]

Hah.
You seem mad, you mad? Yeah, you mad.

This is the best gift ever and it's not even festivus.

Try not to insult an entire group of people to a point that they drop down to your level and ability of communication just to rile you up. You can no longer deny that it worked either. The first step is to stop posting the first bit of jumbled, opinionated farce that pops into your bloated head. Instead stop and walk away to come back later with less emotion and more conscience.

Thanks for spinning the wheel of shame; enjoy your prizes.

[Heft]

Congratulations on getting peace.

As with any front this war, no reparations are justified, even if they are in the form of tech deals. But at least TOOL can begin the process of moving on now.

[boscher]

good, the TOOL-guys I fought were very good fighters.

[Bob Janova]

[quote]Again it appears as though we didn't directly come to you guys at the time of the white peace offer, nor did you come to us, but the offer was certainly out there to the best of my knowledge.[/quote]
Huh? 'There was an offer but we didn't think to tell you about it'?

[Tanner]

[quote name='Judge X' timestamp='1302569668' post='2688924']
Thanks for the help guys.

o/ TOOL
No/ DH
[/quote]

LMBO I am definitely going to start using No/ NPO everywhere I post

[Lord Curzon]

Congratulations TOOL for getting peace. I'm very happy to have seen it turn out this way.

[Banedon]

[quote name='NowaCorp' timestamp='1302550925' post='2688678']
I'm glad to hear that another alliance has come to see that further fighting is pointless and completely unnecessary.
[/quote]

I agree as well. The war can be over tonight if you want it to be. Drop your rep terms and the shooting will stop. But you seem to think that NPO will accept extermination, and the Legion will accept extortion. If "You exist." is now the accepted standard for declaring wars, Legion is not going to give you a cent. Why reward bad behaviour just so you can turn around and attack us again once you get bored?

If that means we're still fighting in December, so be it. You'll not get a penny from Legion, now or ever.

Edited April 13, 2011 by Banedon

[Gibsonator21]

[quote name='Banedon' timestamp='1302668326' post='2689875']
I agree as well. The war can be over tonight if you want it to be. Drop your rep terms and the shooting will stop. But you seem to think that NPO will accept extermination, and the Legion will accept extortion. If "You exist." is now the accepted standard for declaring wars, Legion is not going to give you a cent. Why reward bad behaviour just so you can turn around and attack us again once you get bored?

If that means we're still fighting in December, so be it. You'll not get a penny from Legion, now or ever.
[/quote]
Make a bet? Please?

[NowaCorp]

[quote name='Banedon' timestamp='1302668326' post='2689875']
If that means we're still fighting in December, so be it. You'll not get a penny from Legion, now or ever.
[/quote]
Please honor the requests of the regulatory bodies that govern these discussions. This thread is about TOOL and an honorable exit to the war, not about GOONS, yourself, or your alliance's lust for your own destruction.

If you wish to further debate the merits of peace & reasonable reparations versus war & ZI, please start your own discussion about it. I will be happy to address your misgivings and correct your misguided notions at length there.

Edited April 13, 2011 by NowaCorp

[grahamkeatley]

[quote name='Bob Janova' timestamp='1302639703' post='2689616']
Huh? 'There was an offer but we didn't think to tell you about it'?
[/quote]
[quote name='Drai' timestamp='1302570114' post='2688928']
Well I know GOONS offered it on the OWF and we backed GOONS so maybe we didn't come to you specifically but the offer was certainly existent. If you still believe that's wrong I'm more than willing to hear why as my memory isn't perfect.

I gather this is what Bama was saying above. That is, as I mentioned in the original post, not in the few days after that GOONS post was made but rather a few rounds of fighting down the road. Again it appears as though we didn't directly come to you guys at the time of the white peace offer, nor did you come to us, but the offer was certainly out there to the best of my knowledge.

Perhaps Lebubu or Ardus had different terms for TOOL even at that time in which case I apologize for my incorect recollection. It's been a bit of a task keeping track of 12+ alliances.
[/quote]

TOOL were not at war with GOONS. So I dont believe there was ever an 'offer' available for anyone to discuss anything about. The first and only offer placed on TOOL was 30k in Tech Deals to be completed within 60 days. There was no offer of White Peace or minimal reparations and if there was it never reached OWF or TOOL. Its neither here nor there though. Semantics. But its not very appealing in a thread of this nature to see comments inferring that things happened in a way that they didnt, with you saying TOOL were offered no/minimal terms to begin with.

GK

[Ardus]

[quote name='Banedon' timestamp='1302668326' post='2689875']
I agree as well. The war can be over tonight if you want it to be. Drop your rep terms and the shooting will stop. But you seem to think that NPO will accept extermination, and the Legion will accept extortion. If "You exist." is now the accepted standard for declaring wars, Legion is not going to give you a cent. Why reward bad behaviour just so you can turn around and attack us again once you get bored?

If that means we're still fighting in December, so be it. You'll not get a penny from Legion, now or ever.
[/quote]
Fighting will end before June and GOONS will walk off with piles of your money.