Johnny Apocalypse Posted April 11, 2011 Report Share Posted April 11, 2011 (edited) Remember when Gramlins used to make alliances sell them tech instead of reparations? Remember how that was never an issue and it was in fact hailed by a vast majority of the posters here? I'm pretty sure Gramlins also declared aggressively and asked for tech deals as surrender terms and it was still hailed. So what exactly is the difference between Gramlins asking for tech deals and MK asking for tech deals? That being said it was nice fighting the few TOOL nations that I did. Good luck to you guys. Edited April 11, 2011 by Johnny Apocalypse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potato Posted April 11, 2011 Report Share Posted April 11, 2011 [quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1302509999' post='2688456'] FYI, there is no restriction on internal dealings, and no time-frame for the completion of payments. Only a number and a [i]starting[/i] date. Assuming these are the actual terms, TOOL could do one deal per month, though I suspect they would rather pay it off quickly. These terms don't lock them down in the slightest, especially with a hard-coded 3 months for them to do whatever pleases them most. Factoring in Penguin's points... All people are going to remember about this is the number, and this is going to wind up contributing more to MK dissent than it's really worth, even if TOOL moves to pay it off right away. Sort of a silly mistake to make. [/quote] Oooooooooor we know more than you do. Which isn't quite the stretch with all the uneducated crap you've spewed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lusitan Posted April 11, 2011 Report Share Posted April 11, 2011 Makes perfect sense, TOOL got a good deal. Congrats on peace everyone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lebubu Posted April 11, 2011 Report Share Posted April 11, 2011 [quote name='Johnny Apocalypse' timestamp='1302517474' post='2688484'] Remember when Gramlins used to make alliances sell them tech instead of reparations? [/quote] Yeah, look where that got them. But in all seriousness, here's to peace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alterego Posted April 11, 2011 Report Share Posted April 11, 2011 [quote name='Penguin' timestamp='1302506937' post='2688435'] There are no reparations, only forced loans. [/quote] Its still a demand for 26000 tech that had to be agreed to get peace. MK & Co trying to paint it as doing TOOL a favour by buying their tech at 100 tech for $3m instead of the going rate of 50 for $3m is pathetic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Keshav IV Posted April 11, 2011 Report Share Posted April 11, 2011 [quote name='Alterego' timestamp='1302518362' post='2688488'] Its still a demand for 26000 tech that had to be agreed to get peace. MK & Co trying to paint it as doing TOOL a favour by buying their tech at 100 tech for $3m instead of the going rate of 50 for $3m is pathetic. [/quote] Thats not completely true Alterego, Not everyone follows 3mil/50. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shahenshah Posted April 11, 2011 Report Share Posted April 11, 2011 (edited) [quote name='lebubu' timestamp='1302518246' post='2688487'] Yeah, look where that got them. [/quote] They are where they are due to one person and that's Ramirus. Edited April 11, 2011 by shahenshah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penguin Posted April 11, 2011 Report Share Posted April 11, 2011 I don't see where MK is trying to paint it as a favor to TOOL. It is what it is. Not the best end to a war and not the worst. Not a favor to TOOL and not an insurmountable obstacle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Apocalypse Posted April 11, 2011 Report Share Posted April 11, 2011 [quote name='Alterego' timestamp='1302518362' post='2688488'] Its still a demand for 26000 tech that had to be agreed to get peace. MK & Co trying to paint it as doing TOOL a favour by buying their tech at 100 tech for $3m instead of the going rate of 50 for $3m is pathetic. [/quote] And you're trying to paint it as if we've just stuck a cow up their arse. Since when has the going rate been 3m/50? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potato Posted April 11, 2011 Report Share Posted April 11, 2011 50 tech for $3m?! You're being ripped off, kid. 100 for for $3m [b]is[/b] the standard rate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the rebel Posted April 11, 2011 Report Share Posted April 11, 2011 (edited) [quote name='potato' timestamp='1302519812' post='2688496'] 50 tech for $3m?! You're being ripped off, kid. 100 for for $3m [b]is[/b] the standard rate. [/quote] Many people do buy at 3mill/50tech to secrue sellers over the competition in this smaller world or because they generous, that isnt being ripped off, if you think so then buy 50tech without a seller Edited April 11, 2011 by the rebel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thrash Posted April 11, 2011 Report Share Posted April 11, 2011 Congrats on peace. Good luck rebuilding! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ace072199 Posted April 11, 2011 Report Share Posted April 11, 2011 I'm just glad to see TOOL get peace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BamaBuc Posted April 11, 2011 Report Share Posted April 11, 2011 [quote name='Penguin' timestamp='1302505784' post='2688423'] As far as I'm concerned, terms are bound through the medium in which they are negotiated, which is why a word left out of the public posting of our terms didn't change anything. HeroOfTime, why not just consider these posted documents more along the lines of public notifications? No reason to lose sleep over it. It's upsetting that you got stuck with reparations again after all, TOOL. Best wishes paying these off swiftly and painlessly. [/quote] I would highly recommend that these (and any other) terms be viewed in this light. Thanks for the well-wishes. -Bama Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potato Posted April 11, 2011 Report Share Posted April 11, 2011 [quote name='the rebel' timestamp='1302520356' post='2688500'] Many people do buy at 3mill/50tech to secrue sellers over the competition in this smaller world or because they generous, that isnt being ripped off, if you think so then buy 50tech without a seller [/quote] Many people think keeping 50 CMs on hand is a good idea. Doesn't make it true either way. 3 mil/100 tech is the standard rate. If you feel like being extra-generous then, good for you, I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iotupa Posted April 11, 2011 Report Share Posted April 11, 2011 [quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1302482682' post='2688149'] [color="#0000FF"]26,000 tech is absolutely ridiculous. I am aware that you came in through a chain, yet MK is still the party that started this war. Although they will be getting their tech, none of it is justified.[/color] [/quote] I find myself agreeing with Rebel Virginia far more often these days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goldie Posted April 11, 2011 Report Share Posted April 11, 2011 [quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1302501307' post='2688397'] As a by-product of my studies as a mathematician and logician, (When I find the spare time from being the ruler of my lands, which is by the way more frequent now with so few citizens to look after), I am prone to detecting slight nuances in things. In fact, at least one item from the Polar document was corrected after it was published. While the spirits of all the agreements were obvious under the context of this world, there were, from a purely logical perspective when taken in their most literal form, slight nuances that caused the document to deviate from what was arguably the spirit and intent. It's in my nature to examine the components of things, and not just merely the "big picture," the latter of which can at times be deceiving to the eye. I was not referring to [i]just[/i] the Polar terms, however. When I write, I am exact with my words, and I mean precisely what I say, insofar as the logical content of those words. I don't hide things to be read into when writing official legal documents, I leave nothing up to guesswork or assumption. [/quote] Ok, what other terms have PB ever given out that weren't "peace with no re-entry"? Because you say you aren't referring to just the Polar terms, whereas those are the only terms you could even question the language in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goldie Posted April 11, 2011 Report Share Posted April 11, 2011 [quote name='Alterego' timestamp='1302518362' post='2688488'] Its still a demand for 26000 tech that had to be agreed to get peace. MK & Co trying to paint it as doing TOOL a favour by buying their tech at 100 tech for $3m instead of the going rate of 50 for $3m is pathetic. [/quote] So this is the real truth! It isn't because you guys are poor nation builders, it is because you do 3/50 deals while we still do 3/100 that keeps your upper tiers from matching ours! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janax Posted April 11, 2011 Report Share Posted April 11, 2011 [quote name='Alterego' timestamp='1302518362' post='2688488'] Its still a demand for 26000 tech that had to be agreed to get peace. MK & Co trying to paint it as doing TOOL a favour by buying their tech at 100 tech for $3m instead of the going rate of 50 for $3m is pathetic. [/quote] No wonder you guys are falling farther and farther behind. 3/50 is a sweetheart deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canik Posted April 11, 2011 Report Share Posted April 11, 2011 MK's sphere is such a benevolent hegemony. I'm so glad they've brought an end to stagnation due to curbstombs and vastly unbalanced power. The saviors of Planet Bob, truly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChairmanHal Posted April 11, 2011 Report Share Posted April 11, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Alterego' timestamp='1302518362' post='2688488'] Its still a demand for 26000 tech that had to be agreed to get peace. MK & Co trying to paint it as doing TOOL a favour by buying their tech at 100 tech for $3m instead of the going rate of 50 for $3m is pathetic.[/quote] I pay $3 mill/50 tech. On the other hand I do it within Valhalla, strictly. It's my way of creating a win-win for small nations within my alliance. I would never expect our nations with ~5000 infra who are just starting to buy tech on a serious basis to pay at that rate consistently. The standard rate for some time has been $3 mill/100 tech, set up in a 3x3 or as a $3 mill payment with two shipments of 50 tech following. My preference when I was paying $3 mill/100 tech was a 3x3 arrangement and I would expect TOOL to do it this way here, it shortens the time required ship out tech considerably. Now, having had a night to sleep on the issue, it is indeed [i]mandatory[/i] selling, not voluntary and will likely take 6 months assuming TOOL uses 10 nations in dedicated 3x3s for the purpose and there are no snafus. If TOOL puts more nations on the problem, the time it will take will go faster--20 nations knocks it out optimistically in 3 months. The downside to TOOL is that this is something--supplying tech--that takes priority over internal tech buying/selling, thus this peace term slows TOOL's ability to purchase tech over all, barring finding reliable outside suppliers for its tech buying nations. As peace terms go, this is pretty light weight stuff. Certainly less of a pain than not being allowed to accept any external aid as Valhalla was forbidden to do after the Karma War for a time. I've seen no particular reason to be critical even if I didn't necessarily see a need for the peace term to begin with. Edited April 11, 2011 by ChairmanHal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anhur Posted April 11, 2011 Report Share Posted April 11, 2011 Congrats on peace... and thank you! o/ TOOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogal Dorn Posted April 11, 2011 Report Share Posted April 11, 2011 Congrats on peace! It was an honor fighting alongside you gents TOOL. o/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solaris Posted April 11, 2011 Report Share Posted April 11, 2011 Congratulations for getting a just peace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the rebel Posted April 11, 2011 Report Share Posted April 11, 2011 (edited) [quote name='potato' timestamp='1302525350' post='2688525'] Many people think keeping 50 CMs on hand is a good idea. Doesn't make it true either way. 3 mil/100 tech is the standard rate. If you feel like being extra-generous then, good for you, I guess. [/quote] There are reasons why some people keep 50 CMs, look around the other parts of these forums and you will find out why... Also it might be the case 3mill/100tech is the norm but when you have to go outside of your alliance and allies in search of deals because you cant find or dont want to wait ages, then that is where the competition is as a neutral party will look at MK offering 3mill for 100 tech and someone else offering 3mill for 50 tech, who they going to choose? Regardless your point doesnt take the fact this world is shrinking and many sellers become buyers with none to replace them. Edited April 11, 2011 by the rebel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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