Imperial announcement about random stuff

[Neo Uruk]

Obviously your alliance does or you wouldn't have gone through the effort to spin your DoW this way.

I don't think it's too much effort. More than I would make, but it's just a couple words switched around and a clause cited.

[Phil Coulson]

This is a bit ridiculous.  Reading Article 4:
 
 
It specifies that a DoW can be against a single AA in the bloc. 
 
It also says that the other signatories will defend the attacked alliance (singular).  Both of these things lead to an external AA being able to declare war on one of the AA's in Plan B.  So no, TOP has not DoW'ed you.
 
I'm guessing they recognize this as a DoW against them though?

 
You must have read it backwards because that's not at all what it says.  
 
Plan B is basically a super MDoAP.  This is the announcement.  It's actually remarkably similar to The Continuum Treaty.
 
Article I states that the treaty should be prioritized above all others:
 
 

The undersigned alliances pledge to prioritize this pact above all other treaties. The signatories pledge not to seek membership in any other bloc, and will refrain from signing chaining treaties.

 
 
Article IV deals with war and covers mutual defense and declarations of war.  It's publicized as an MADP but I believe it's actually an MDoAP because it requires it's members to authorize the DoW.  But that's not really why we're here.
 
 

Article IV: Us against them
 
In the event of a declaration of war against a signatory, all other signatories will consider themselves at war with the aggressor, and the defense of the attacked alliance will take priority above any external military commitment.
 
To issue an offensive declaration of war, a signatory may put forward a motion of war, followed by a vote over 72 hours. To be approved, a motion of war must gain a simple majority of votes: if the motion is approved, the declaration of war shall be considered a sanctioned action by every signatory. Once a decision is reached, a signatory may refrain from participating in a defensive or offensive conflict only with the consent of all other signatories.
 
Any plan for an offensive declaration of war shall be made known to the other signatories 3 days in advance. The signatories pledge to avoid offensive military or espionage actions against each others' allies, unless those allies are engaged in a conflict against a signatory or an ally of a signatory.

The first clause of Article IV is a pretty strong mutual defense clause and that coupled with Article I makes it almost certain that if any of the other member alliances are attacked, the other alliances are going in.

That said, TIO was attacked by NpO on December 2, so R&R and NATO had an active defensive obligation at that time. NATO was arguably otherwise engaged but R&R's absence was a bit more suspect. None of this really matters now because NATO and TIO just got jumped so any mutual defense war that may not have been active before is really activated now.

The bottom line, it's a defensive war of an ally, stop whining. R&R had the option to go in offensively two months ago but chose not to.

[Beauty]

PS: I'm sorry if you don't find many targets TOP. We have been taking a look into your peace mode strategy.. so far, it's quite boring :/ You should bring out your nations to play with and I'll bring out mine ;)

At least someone with balls to admit it.

Also kill TOP please.

[Caliph]

I repeat. By declaring on one member of us, you declare on all of us. Thanks for listening/reading.

 

You can repeat it all you like, it was retarded when you did it in Eq and its retarded now.

[Gibsonator21]

 

For the love of God, your entire alliance seems to have one massive pole up its ass.

It's myth's, sorry.

Edited December 17, 2013 by Gibsonator21

[IYIyTh]

I have a nice pole, mmkay.

[SiCkO]

 

Will you be teaching this class? I might have to attend.

 

I'm afraid you haven't taken the prerequisite courses yet. Please take ELAW - 110 Coalition Building before signing up for ELAW - 205 Treaty Interpretation. You can petition the Dean for a waiver if you have transcripts and/or professional experience. 

[bcortell]

 
You must have read it backwards because that's not at all what it says.  
 
Plan B is basically a super MDoAP.  This is the announcement.  It's actually remarkably similar to The Continuum Treaty.
 
Article I states that the treaty should be prioritized above all others:
 
 
 
 
Article IV deals with war and covers mutual defense and declarations of war.  It's publicized as an MADP but I believe it's actually an MDoAP because it requires it's members to authorize the DoW.  But that's not really why we're here.
 
 

The first clause of Article IV is a pretty strong mutual defense clause and that coupled with Article I makes it almost certain that if any of the other member alliances are attacked, the other alliances are going in.

That said, TIO was attacked by NpO on December 2, so R&R and NATO had an active defensive obligation at that time. NATO was arguably otherwise engaged but R&R's absence was a bit more suspect. None of this really matters now because NATO and TIO just got jumped so any mutual defense war that may not have been active before is really activated now.

The bottom line, it's a defensive war of an ally, stop whining. R&R had the option to go in offensively two months ago but chose not to.

Oh I have no problem calling it a defensive war of an ally.  Seems you and I both agree with that.  Which also means we should both agree that TOP did not attack TIO.  TIO had (and has) every right to declare on TOP, but they claimed something they had no right to (that TOP DoW'ed them).  

[Mogar]

 

I'm afraid you haven't taken the prerequisite courses yet. Please take ELAW - 110 Coalition Building before signing up for ELAW - 205 Treaty Interpretation. You can petition the Dean for a waiver if you have transcripts and/or professional experience. 

I think the majority of our students should take a refresher in ELAW 101 Politics, before anything, the teacher who retired last semester certainly did not cover the source material very well.

[Nick GhostWolf]

Okay... so I keep hearing TIO defending their competence.  So why is it that the two TIO nations I declared on both turtled - I get it, no barracks/GC's but you could at least satisfy my pixel-masochism with some cruise missiles.  Instead I get this:

 

http://www.cybernations.net/war_information.asp?ID=750152 (this one's particularly embarassing because this guy's warchest dwarfs mine... although it's been cut down to size by 8 successful destroy money ops plus a series of defeat alerts :) )

 

and

 

http://www.cybernations.net/war_information.asp?ID=750149

 

I mean come on, there's a difference between simple incompetence and not even trying.  What really adds to the pile is - instead of calling for reinforcements from your own people - you instead got an NPO guy with a heavy load of military wonders to come and do YOUR job for you; with him present I'm aiming my nukes at the actual threat (read: not TIO).  You could at least PRETEND to try, I mean for God's sake, no cruise missiles even?  I'm not seeing anything backing up your words, just meaningless posturing that literally everyone can see right through.

 

Difficulty: turtle/10

[Neo Uruk]

Okay... so I keep hearing TIO defending their competence.  So why is it that the two TIO nations I declared on both turtled - I get it, no barracks/GC's but you could at least satisfy my pixel-masochism with some cruise missiles.  Instead I get this:
 
http://www.cybernations.net/war_information.asp?ID=750152 (this one's particularly embarassing because this guy's warchest dwarfs mine... although it's been cut down to size by 8 successful destroy money ops plus a series of defeat alerts :) )
 
and
 
http://www.cybernations.net/war_information.asp?ID=750149
 
I mean come on, there's a difference between simple incompetence and not even trying.  What really adds to the pile is - instead of calling for reinforcements from your own people - you instead got an NPO guy with a heavy load of military wonders to come and do YOUR job for you; with him present I'm aiming my nukes at the actual threat (read: not TIO).  You could at least PRETEND to try, I mean for God's sake, no cruise missiles even?  I'm not seeing anything backing up your words, just meaningless posturing that literally everyone can see right through.
 
Difficulty: turtle/10

oh cool it's the classic "i'm going to paint an entire alliance the same color as these two members" technique.

like I don't even like TIO but get your shit together, people.

[Dochartaigh]

 

TOP hit all of US when they hit NATO, deal with it or take your ball and go home.

 

I think TOP is dealing with it really. Just annoying that TIO does not have the balls to just DoW TOP. 

 

Actually we only hit NATO and the rest of US declared on us, which is how things work and no one is complaining about. I don't know why the rest of US is so against the concept of defending their blocmate and instead has to pretend they got attacked.

 

Shhh... If you state that then IRON has to oA into TOP...

 

So where is your DoW on Umbrella since by your logic they attacked you too? Or are you just not going to defend yourself against them? Go ahead, I'll give you time to think of an excuse for why it's "different ".
And no one has any reason to be afraid of your bloc so you can cut the chest thumping and tough kid talk.

 

TIO does not have the upper tier to take on TOP let alone Umbrella.

 

 

To be perfectly fair, everyone tries to jockey for underdog status or to present any 'n all treaty activations as being defensive. It's stupid and unnecessary given that no-one actually cares, but it happens. So if Sparta were able to use the treaty sharing clause in XX to defend TOP against NPO, as opposed to using an oA clause as you would expect from any other alliance, then I'm sure people can accept TIO doing something similar.

 

 

That said, given the unceremonious send-off Skippy was given... I think I would be disappointed if TIO actually wanted a shot at him. I hope against hope that was a joke. :P

 

Yet those same people whine, bitch, and moan when people use oAs...

 

Argue over what colour I should paint my walls.

I am debating between pink, green or black

 

Pink with black polka dots and a green border.

[Nick GhostWolf]

oh cool it's the classic "i'm going to paint an entire alliance the same color as these two members" technique.

like I don't even like TIO but get your !@#$ together, people.

 

I would give you credit on this - but I decided I'd check the facts first.

 

I counted 52 active wars between Polaris and TIO.  In only 10 of those wars was the NS loss in the favor of the TIO forces.  About half of these wars showed TIO turtling.  Sorry, but the shoe fits.

 

SOURCE: I ran a search on wars between Polars and TIO and individually looked at the NS damage and attack totals.  You are welcome to replicate this experiment yourself - be careful not to accidentally count Pacific wars, a few will turn up in the searches due to nation names (plus one Pacific vs TIO war); these were excluded from the numbers I gave you.

 

EDIT: to replicate this search, look for active wars under the search terms Polar and Imperial.  CN's search utility will give you the results; it's up to you though, to do what I did and individually look at the tallies on each current war.

Edited December 17, 2013 by Nick GhostWolf

[NoMercy]

 

I would give you credit on this - but I decided I'd check the facts first.

 

I counted 52 active wars between Polaris and TIO.  In only 10 of those wars was the NS loss in the favor of the TIO forces.  About half of these wars showed TIO turtling.  Sorry, but the shoe fits.

 

SOURCE: I ran a search on wars between Polars and TIO and individually looked at the NS damage and attack totals.  You are welcome to replicate this experiment yourself - be careful not to accidentally count Pacific wars, a few will turn up in the searches due to nation names (plus one Pacific vs TIO war); these were excluded from the numbers I gave you.

 

EDIT: to replicate this search, look for active wars under the search terms Polar and Imperial.  CN's search utility will give you the results; it's up to you though, to do what I did and individually look at the tallies on each current war.

While I appreciate your work, I doubt you'll get a nobel price, because this is everything but surprising^^

[Nick GhostWolf]

While I appreciate your work, I doubt you'll get a nobel price, because this is everything but surprising^^

 

I have no desire for a Nobel prize considering I completely lost all faith in the validity of the Nobel prize after one of the most despicable individuals in human history managed to score one for no reason at all in 2009, but that's a debate for another forum.

 

And I wasn't surprised either.  TIO's reputation precedes them, and they're living up to the expectations they've carved out for themselves in previous conflicts.

[Mogar]

Shhh... If you state that then IRON has to oA into TOP...

we'll see if they have the balls.

[Bob Ilyani]

Trying way too hard on the OWF is handling issues like a man apparently. I can't decide whether I should feel sad for you or laugh at you.

Heh. No. DDL has trouble with basic comprehension skills, and being able to face up to the reality of a situation. It's why he has to pretend to "recognize hostilities" with TOP, instead of properly declaring in accordance with his bloc treaty.

 

He's had plenty of chances to resolve the consequences of his inane decisions privately. He hasn't chosen to do so.

[Commander shepard]

 

Shhh... If you state that then IRON has to oA into TOP...

 

What!!!???

[Max Power]

While I appreciate your work, I doubt you'll get a nobel price, because this is everything but surprising^^

We need to start using this.

 

When you declare war against The Javahouse League, you pay... the Nobel Price.  :war:

[berbers]

Heh. No. DDL has trouble with basic comprehension skills, and being able to face up to the reality of a situation. It's why he has to pretend to "recognize hostilities" with TOP, instead of properly declaring in accordance with his bloc treaty.

 

He's had plenty of chances to resolve the consequences of his inane decisions privately. He hasn't chosen to do so.

 

 

New Polar Order recognition of War

 

 

TIO declared war on Sparta and as such, the Tonight We Ski In Hell! pact has been activated.

Specifically ARTICLE III. Mutual Defense

"An act of war upon one signatory is considered an act of war on the other and will be met with military actions."



o/

 

 

Man you must really be chomping at the bit to cancel Polar, since their thread title was "We recognize hostilities with TIO" and they posted the above as justification...

 

Don't you just hate when your allies do stuff that pisses you right off?

[EgoFreaky]

 

The bottom line, it's a defensive war of an ally, stop whining. R&R had the option to go in offensively two months ago but chose not to.

 

Correct, we actually had optional requests from both sides, so we opted not to go in optional for either and just honor the first mandatory clause. And our first obligation was when we got a request from our bloc partner to defend them. 

Edited December 17, 2013 by EgoFreaky

[Dajobo]

Berber the difference is I wrote it how I saw it and couldn't give a fig if people agreed. I didn't do it though to try and activate other treaties but rather to show yourself, TIO and R&R that my motives weren't malicious and I was not trying to drag in more people.

 

Carry on this great debate though as I can tell it's extremely important to some.

[berbers]

Berber the difference is I wrote it how I saw it and couldn't give a fig if people agreed. I didn't do it though to try and activate other treaties but rather to show yourself, TIO and R&R that my motives weren't malicious and I was not trying to drag in more people.

 

Carry on this great debate though as I can tell it's extremely important to some.

 

So you used the terminology to try and not trigger a treaty, by saying it was US that caused the hostilities.  That's fine and dandy, but live with the precedent.

[Lenny N Karl]

Sorry to interrupt all of your fun of wasting your lives bickering over POVs that you will NEVER agree too or change the others mind, but....

 

Since when is US the focus of this war? every thread it seems...

 

for those that remember, NSO/NG/NPO are the primaries in this war.  IF you want US out so bad.  Wrap up terms there and the whole thing folds up.  You are all making this a boring affair.

[Nick GhostWolf]

Sorry to interrupt all of your fun of wasting your lives bickering over POVs that you will NEVER agree too or change the others mind, but....

 

Since when is US the focus of this war? every thread it seems...

 

for those that remember, NSO/NG/NPO are the primaries in this war.  IF you want US out so bad.  Wrap up terms there and the whole thing folds up.  You are all making this a boring affair.

 

Speak for yourself, I'm rather enjoying burning a bunch of people to the ground.  I even enjoy the nuclear anarchy - it just doesn't feel right and it's boring without this at the top of my nation page...

 

:nuke: Your nation was attacked with a nuclear weapon on 12/17/2013 12:00:02 AM. This will have a devastating effect on your population happiness and economy until 12/22/2013.

Edited December 17, 2013 by Nick GhostWolf