Schattenmann Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 (edited) Not going to get into a lot of commentary in the OP if I can avoid it, but I thought this would be interesting to those on the sidelines. There are basically two periods of terms; initially, each alliance was talking to their opponents individually, but after about a month of terms-of-the-day in this manner, we all started negotiating on the coalition level. [b]Terms to CoJ from GOONS, 3/4:[/b] <Sardonic[GOONS]> this is the general idea: <Sardonic[GOONS]> For CoJ I already had a mandatory mercy board term in mind. Schatt has to write a 5 act Shakespearean play (4 scenes per act minimum, some arbitrary number of words per scene) about GOONS and VE somehow, without painting either of us in a negative light <Sardonic[GOONS]> well it was that or have him write a 50 page legal research paper defending his exact opposite opinion on the citizens united ruling. In addition we grade it and have the grade be the % taken off of a stated rep amount [around 400-500 million]. <MegaAros[CoJ]> Would this figure change at all if our top tier were to actually fight? <Sardonic[GOONS]> if you don't take reps I'm sure when the NpO conflict ends VE would just love to come ravage you some <Sardonic[GOONS]> meh, not really, you're not legion [b]Terms to 64Digits from GOONS 3/14:[/b] HeroofTime: "I went to Sard[onic], and he said he wants from 64Digits, 75m, or tech equivalent, or forced tech deals that would be proxied over to Umbrella." [b]Reps to GOONS by alliance, 3/18:[/b] Legion: $2 billion Cult of Justitia: $400-500 million (400 Sardonic, 500 JT_Jag) The Phoenix Federation: $400 million New Sith Order: $100 million Invicta: $300 million ASU: $80 million 64Digits: $80 million Avalon: $50 million [b]NPO terms dictated by Doomhouse, 3/21:[/b] <~[`_`]> 1. 100% Of your nations above 80K NS must leave PM. <~[`_`]> 2. 85% Of your nations between 50K NS and 80K NS must leave PM (leaving room for banks) <~[`_`]> 3. These nations, once left PM must fight for 30 days. <~[`_`]> 3a. This period of 30 days will begin when less than 5% of the order are in peace mode, and no one above 80K NS is in peace mode. <~[`_`]> 4. Pacificans who have not individually surrendered will be considered part of the alliance until they do so. [b]GOONS reparations demands by alliance, 3/21:[/b] <&JT_Jag[GOONS]> Avalon 50M, ASU 80M, 64Digits 80M, Sanitarium 100M, NSO 100M + Rebel Virginia for a month OR 300M, Invicta 300M, TPF 400M, CoJ a graded play with a base price of 400M, the grade reducing the reparations, Legion 2B <~[`_`]> And will be put at proper in game mechanics numbers (so no one is sending $1m aid package) [b]SNAFU terms, 3/21:[/b] Stetson: "We have already been assured by TOP that our only term from them or MK will be surrender, so as long as we're included in the coalition peace agreement and we get it negotiated to allow us to help we're more than willing to help with reps to get this over with." [b]TOOL terms dictated by Mushroom Kingdom, 3/21:[/b] Epiphanus 1) 150 slots for tech deals for 6 aid cycles Epiphanus 2) Tech deals are in the form of $3 million/100 tech over 3 aid cycles. Epiphanus 3) Total tech delivered will be 100 tech/slot x 150 slots x 2 tech deals/slot = 30,000 tech Clarification from Mia to the coalition: "To add to TOOL's terms, no cash conversion is allowed." [b]Carpe Diem terms dictated by Mushroom Kingdom, 3/21:[/b] 1. No internal or incoming external aid is allowed for a period of 2 months. 2. 30k tech to be paid over a 2 month period, by nations that have over 1k tech. 3. Some sort of apology for breaking terms to the people who signed your terms (obv). Clarification from Bionic Redhead to the coalition: "30k tech is 1/3 of our total tech" [b][size="4"]At this point, negotiations are consolidated with TPF's The Crimson King taking point on everyone except NPO, and NPO dealing with their own terms. Some side conflicts like CoJ-ODN remained outside the coalition discussions because no reps were being demanded, no terms were required, or other circumstances.[/size][/b] [b]NPO/Coalition response to terms dictated on 3/21 to Doom House, 3/24:[/b] To consider the fact the New Pacific Order currently sits at 43% of our original NS, (before this war we were around 16,000,000 NS and as of March 24th we were at 6,954.547) we have lost a pound of flesh (more like 50 lbs). This is hard for any alliance to stomach without rehashing the arguments we have had back and forth since terms were first discussed. However, in the efforts of ending this war, which we have been told Doomhouse wants, we offer the following: The New Pacific Order will place an additional 883,000 ns into war mode for two weeks. This NS will be pulled from our 80k+ nations. At the conclusion of two weeks (start and end date to be added once all parties agree) all hostilities will end by and between all signatories. Such combat translates to an additional 13% of our current alliance nation strength. Considering losses that will be sustained due to nuclear attacks and etc, we estimate this will reduce our alliance nation strength to approximately 6,300,000. This of course translates to the New Pacific Order losing more than 60% of its original nation strength from the combined pre-emptive attacks of Doomhouse. The following is countered on behalf of our allies whom regardless of tactics used, entered into this war for being allied to the NPO or allies to allies in an effort to protect the attacked: --Enter each allies terms here-- A pound of flesh is given after several pounds have been taken. It was a concern the New Pacific Order needed to be wounded again, we have. Let this war end. [b]Terms dictated to CoJ by ODN, 3/24:[/b] <OsRavan[ODN]> potential thread for down the line take a look before i share it with others <OsRavan[ODN]> After long months of war, ODN is pleased to announce a cessation of hostilities with CoJ based on the below terms. <OsRavan[ODN]> 1) CoJ admits defeat and surrenders to ODN <OsRavan[ODN]> 2) CoJ will not re-enter the current conflict or any wars resulting from the current conflict (this includes the NPO-Doomhouse front). This also includes sending aid to Alliances at war. <OsRavan[ODN]> 3) CoJ shall write a haiku praising these ODN oranges: Fresh Oranges for CoJ <OsRavan[ODN]> term 2 will obviously be removed if there is no war going on when it comes time to post this <OsRavan[ODN]> is what i posted above good with you? <Schattenmann> I think it would make more sense as I proposed it, <Schattenmann> X. The ODN will deliver to CoJ one crate of oranges Y. CoJ will compose a haiku about said oranges <OsRavan[ODN]> its simpler to do as i suggested. if you need the world odn delivered oranges i can do that <Schattenmann> Thus 3) ODN shall send one crate of oranges to CoJ 4. CoJ shall send ODN a haiku about those oranges <OsRavan[ODN]> 3) ODN sends CoJ a crate of oranges: [hyperlink to a picture of oranges] and expects a haiku praising them in return. <Schattenmann> Since you don't want it to sound like white peace, you could even get all snarky and say "ODN shall send a crate of oranges to the starving nations of CoJ" or something condescending <OsRavan[ODN]> no one is trying to be condescending though <OsRavan[ODN]> the edited one i put above work for you? <Schattenmann> Alright then 3) ODN sends CoJ a crate of oranges: [hyperlink to a picture of oranges] and in return CoJ will write a haiku about them. <OsRavan[ODN]> fair enough. <OsRavan[ODN]> Understand by the bye that the rest of our gov will need to debate and discuss this andd my word is not fully binding <Schattenmann> Sure [b]Changes in ODN terms dictated to CoJ 4/12:[/b] <OsRavan[ODN]> so i took what we talked about back to the alliance. ::shrugs;; I under-estimated the dislike with your and coj's conduct in this war though. The feeling was very strong that an apology to TFE is needed. The goal is not to publicly humiliate you. It can be a private apology with no one outside aware. But we do need an apology. Or atleast an admitance that your behavior to them (and our applicant aa btw)was inappropriate <OsRavan[ODN]> on a side note if you want to drop the lulz term we can. IT was also decided that those sort of terms are reserved for opponents we consider to have behaved honorably on the field of battle. Such as in this war, for us, MCXA, Legion, etc. That does not include you in our perspective, and that term can be dropped if you so desire (Editor's note: it was later revealed by spies that the lulz term was dropped due to internal opposition, not CoJ's behavior) [b]Terms negotiations, 4/14:[/b] Recap posted after logs, logs posted for history buffs <@TCK> evenin everyone <@TCK> apologies for running late I just arrived home <@Infinite_Citadel> Brehon[NPO]: can you get him caught up? <@TCK> he is doing that now <@Infinite_Citadel> ok <&Sardonic[GOONS]> howdy <@TCK> just give me one moment guys to get caught up <@TCK> again my apologies. I had a function that ran well over on time <@Infinite_Citadel> you're good, just let us know <@TCK> Before addressing yhe final figure <@TCK> what is the timeframe we are looking at for reps to begin payment, and total completion time <@TCK> when i had initially presented this a while back I think I had something like 21 days from war end with a 4 month clause for total payment to be complete <@TCK> That was never really discussed beyond that if that was going to be reasonable [22:28] <&Sardonic[GOONS]> I see no problems with 4 months. <@TCK> ok what about the start time <@TCK> that is more of my concern tbh <@TCK> more* [22:28] <&Sardonic[GOONS]> When the NPO-warring period ends <@TCK> basically in this situation we would be talking about 3 weeks from the date you peace NPO <@TCK> I am obviously going to need some down time from the time npo peaces out and the time you start getting reps <&Sardonic[GOONS]> why do you need three weeks between that <@TCK> are you going to have target lists ready for me the next day after the war ends? <@Infinite_Citadel> I could [22:30] <&Sardonic[GOONS]> well I certainly wouldn't need 3 weeks to get them <@TCK> I will be honest with you guys...My goal here will be to get you paid as fast as possible <@TCK> Gettingt his out of the way and just being doen is priority one <@TCK> done* <@Infinite_Citadel> [10:29pm] Infinite_Citadel: Start time: 1 month after the war ends, End time: 5 months after the war ends <@Infinite_Citadel> That gives you 4 months and some time to get your guys out of bill lock/prepare to pay <@Infinite_Citadel> err 4 months to pay and 1 month to get your guys out of bill lock <&Sardonic[GOONS]> yes that will do nicely <@TCK> One month from npo peace..or npo start time.. <@TCK> because war end to me means npo war ends...so i want to be sure what you mean there <@TCK> I am asking for clarification there, nothing else.. <&Sardonic[GOONS]> He means 1 month after the war is completely over, NPO included, I think. <@Infinite_Citadel> Yes <@TCK> that would be more than enough time if we are talkig one month after npo is at peace <@TCK> we would nto need that much <@Infinite_Citadel> That's fine <@Infinite_Citadel> how much would you need? <@TCK> that works then <&Sardonic[GOONS]> okay so, who is paying what <@TCK> I told you I would give you guys a breakdown on that once we have a finalized figure <&Sardonic[GOONS]> and we do <&Sardonic[GOONS]> riiiight? <@TCK> you will have all of that. it will all be broken down for you...target lists will be centralized etc <@TCK> Also next bridge to cross here. I want to make sure what we are talking includes total peace for everyone at war <@Brehon[NPO]> ^^ <&Sardonic[GOONS]> okay but I'd like to know whom to expect to pay what sooner rather than later. <@TCK> There should be no other reps payable by any alliances <@Infinite_Citadel> let me check TCK <@TCK> no lulz terms aside from what odn mentioned <&Sardonic[GOONS]> please don't use that word <@TCK> if someone hit dh/allies in this war they are peace because of this agreement <@Infinite_Citadel> Not positive about SNAFU <&Sardonic[GOONS]> right, literally everyone but NPO should be peacing out <&Sardonic[GOONS]> on that side <&Sardonic[GOONS]> SNAFU? <@Infinite_Citadel> I was under the impression that we were dealing with their negotiations separately <@Infinite_Citadel> MK that is <@TCK> no <@TCK> in fact they specifically told mk that they were part of this [22:42] <@Infinite_Citadel> alright <@TCK> can you clarify that. <@Infinite_Citadel> Adding the terms we have for SNAFU, that brings us to 2.55 bil <@Infinite_Citadel> We were under the impression SNAFU was being dealt with separately, so I did not include them in my calculations <@Infinite_Citadel> unless they want to do tech deals <@Infinite_Citadel> in which case it'd be 2.4 bil and 8000 tech via tech deals <@TCK> And we were under the impression that they were included in figures or were not being asked anything. The original offer we laid out said that this encompassed every alliance at war. MK's only requests from that time have been nadc and tsi <@TCK> Th is is the 2nd or 3rd time now that we are upping terms after you are presenting what is said to be a walk away, end the war offer that is being given consideration <@Infinite_Citadel> That's unfortunate <@Infinite_Citadel> regardless those are our terms <&Sardonic[GOONS]> TCK it should have been a tipoff that SNAFU was never included in the calculations beforehand <&Sardonic[GOONS]> that they were not part of the number <&Sardonic[GOONS]> had you asked, you would have received a fair answer <&Sardonic[GOONS]> there is no deception here <@TCK> Sardonic[GOONS] I had specific conversations with people on your side in regards to snafu and a white peace offer they had on the table <@TCK> had* <&Sardonic[GOONS]> well you must not have been talking to people who knew MK gov. <@TCK> Ok let me clarify, I had this conversation with Roq at the same time we also worked out the tool's exit <@TCK> When MK dropped all requests of snafu in further talks my impression was that there was no longer any <&Sardonic[GOONS]> if I drop GOONS' base offer by 50m can we just get this done tonight. <@TCK> ok let me cover one other area first before I answer that <@TCK> in regards to peace I would assume that this would be effective when signed for those who want to exit <@TCK> IE: people can get out, not wait the 3 weeks for NPO <@TCK> As that was the impression that was conveyed <&Sardonic[GOONS]> That is my understanding, yes. <@TCK> Can I get a definite on that <&Sardonic[GOONS]> only people shouldn't stay <&Sardonic[GOONS]> they should abide by the peace terms and peace out <@TCK> Well technically we can say this does not go into effect until the end of the war etc <@TCK> thus why i am trying to hammer this down <@TCK> Most will want to get out, and their ability to do so has a bearing on the start date for the cash for reasons Infinite_Citadel mentioned earlier <%bakamitai> my impression was that the terms, whatever they are, become effective when signed. those terms were to include NPO remaining at war, with everyone else peacing out. do I have that right? <@TCK> getting their guys out of bill-lock etc <@TCK> that is what I am trying to hammer down baka * %bakamitai nods <@TCK> Some people will not want to peace out until you do <@TCK> So I want to clarify exactly waht this peace entails there <@TCK> what* <@Brehon[NPO]> And once that is complete we need to talk about the 3 weeks start and end times <&Sardonic[GOONS]> alright fine those who want to stay in can <&Sardonic[GOONS]> it's their ass if they refuse to peace out after the three weeks with NPO, but I doubt we'll have that problem, eh? <@Infinite_Citadel> Those who peace out should have their 30 day window start once they're peaced. <@TCK> Not at all <@TCK> Infinite_Citadel that is fine <@Infinite_Citadel> Or alternatively, once NPO fulfills their end of the peace term agreement <@TCK> correct <@Brehon[NPO]> That is correct [22:59] <&Sardonic[GOONS]> right <@TCK> 30 days from the clock start time <@TCK> lets put it that way <@TCK> for those who leave <@Infinite_Citadel> Right <%bakamitai> is that a term worth having in writing? <@TCK> and no, you will not have any issue with anyone leaving the war with NPO <@Brehon[NPO]> Yes <@Infinite_Citadel> yeah <%bakamitai> to avoid confusion <&Sardonic[GOONS]> right <&Sardonic[GOONS]> "no we will not have an issue" <@Infinite_Citadel> Most of, if not all of this will have to be in writing <@Brehon[NPO]> ^ agreed <@TCK> OK final bit of clerical work here <@TCK> Considering that this sum will cover all alliances <&Sardonic[GOONS]> brb <@TCK> would anyone be opposed to having a separate peace with avalon <@TCK> they will sign something that they surrender and all that [23:01] <@Brehon[NPO]> I have no issue <@TCK> They will leave at the same time as NPO etc <@Infinite_Citadel> why do they want separate peace? <@TCK> they do not wish to sign onto a document that has reps attached to it. And since they are not paying or have any reps being requested of them at this point I do not see why this would be an issue. <@TCK> There is nothing funky with the request, they are not going to try to pull something over on anyone. It is a simple separate peace for them at the same time as npo. <@Infinite_Citadel> That's fine <@TCK> ok good <&Sardonic[GOONS]> yes I don't care, but you better believe I'll be ragging on them for singing it in spirit <@Brehon[NPO]> When ready I want to talk about the NPO nations coming out and how we are starting this timer. <@TCK> Glad to see we can keep this professional.. <%bakamitai> are we finally agreed on a basic set of terms for each alliance? <%bakamitai> I believe so <&Sardonic[GOONS]> seems like it <@Brehon[NPO]> I looks like it to me, I don't see anything missed? <@TCK> anyway, just to clarify this is going o cover tpf..legion..invicta..ml..64d..sanitarium...kn..nadc...tsi...coj... <@TCK> avalon is peaced separate <@TCK> did I miss anyone there.. <%bakamitai> SNAFU? <&Sardonic[GOONS]> see even you guys forgot snafu <@Brehon[NPO]> lol... yes snafu <@Brehon[NPO]> again LOL <@Infinite_Citadel> haha <@Brehon[NPO]> We are trying to create a SNAFU.... <@Brehon[NPO]> Sorry I had to.. humor is good for the soul <@TCK> damn thought I typed them <@TCK> ok snafu <@TCK> Also depending on wording ML may want to do the same as avalon. Again they have no reps requirement here so I don;t think that would be an issue for you guys <@TCK> Aside from that we just need the final number. <&Sardonic[GOONS]> You already have the final number <%bakamitai> please repeat it for everyone Sardonic, so there are no ambiguities <&Sardonic[GOONS]> IC, what was the final number? <@Infinite_Citadel> 2.50 bil <@Brehon[NPO]> Also I an offer Baka's services to write these up...lawyer that he is <@TCK> Ok here is the deal...you want 2.5 i had clearance up to 2.35 coming in here (which would have covered this before the SNAFU thing).. <@TCK> meet me in the middle <@TCK> and we are done <%bakamitai> I would be honored to write up a draft copy and circulate it, if that's agreeable <@TCK> fine by me baka <@Infinite_Citadel> are you saying 2.425 bil TCK <@TCK> correct <@TCK> rounded to the nearest actual 3 mil slot figure... <@TCK> in your favor <@TCK> since dealing with partial slots in annoying on aid <&Sardonic[GOONS]> right [23:16] <%bakamitai> that would be 2.427 [23:16] <%bakamitai> if my math is right <@TCK> fine <@TCK> 2 mil more in your favor <&Sardonic[GOONS]> I'll take it. <&Sardonic[GOONS]> if you have no objections IC <@Infinite_Citadel> That works <@TCK> ok gentlemen. I believe we have an agreement <&Sardonic[GOONS]> okay so do you have all the sigs so we can post this up or what <@Brehon[NPO]> Hold <@TCK> assuming we can hammer out the fine print in regards to NPO and the peace mode antions coming out/clock start and stop and all that <@Brehon[NPO]> I want to cover NPO coming out <@TCK> exactly <%bakamitai> Sardonic[GOONS], IC: do you mind if I draft the document for circulation before posting? <@Infinite_Citadel> That would work best <&Sardonic[GOONS]> yes <@Infinite_Citadel> I can write the financial parts if you guys want <%bakamitai> thank you <&Sardonic[GOONS]> just don't put you goddamn animes in it <&Sardonic[GOONS]> I swear to god <%bakamitai> <&Sardonic[GOONS]> if I see more of that lucky star !@#$ <&Sardonic[GOONS]> perma-war <%bakamitai> I will need the eventual breakdown of who is paying what <%bakamitai> as well as the timing terms that Brehon wants to discuss <@Brehon[NPO]> We will provide a list of nations equalling the 1.8m NS in the 1m 80K+ and 800k 50-79K. It starts the day they are out (in entirety). 3 weeks after this is over. As we will provide that list and the NS (wish screenshots if needed). <@Brehon[NPO]> Correct? <&Sardonic[GOONS]> that seems right to me <@Brehon[NPO]> Once that is provided that is the official start date, 20 days later is the official war end date (day they come out, then 20 days later = 21 days aka 3 weeks) <%bakamitai> Infinite_Citadel: thanks, but I think it's easier if I assemble the entire document. besides, it saves you some work <~Roquentin> will the other alliances stay in for the 3 weeks <@Infinite_Citadel> ok, I might make some edits in the review <~Roquentin> or will they leave the war when their terms are set <@Infinite_Citadel> Leave I believe <@Brehon[NPO]> Some alliances will not leave the battlefield until NPO does. <@TCK> Most will leave when terms are set <@Brehon[NPO]> ^ <&Sardonic[GOONS]> so can that happen, like, tonight <&Sardonic[GOONS]> so I can dispatch orders asap <~Roquentin> doubtful <@TCK> Getting sigs from everyone tonight is doubtful <@TCK> especially on our end <&Sardonic[GOONS]> ah <@TCK> plus we still have to write this <@Brehon[NPO]> One more thing: <@Brehon[NPO]> Reps etc are final. Any alliance (to include NPO) will not be assessed more reps or any reps based on the war during those 3 weeks. <%bakamitai> I will work on this tonight, and circulate a draft later tonight or tomorrow <@Brehon[NPO]> Also, a clear non-escalation clause <~Roquentin> non-escalation? <@Brehon[NPO]> aka no escalation either side during the 3 weeks. <@Brehon[NPO]> Yes aka no one new jumps in this !@#$ <&Sardonic[GOONS]> That doesn't really seem nessisary but I don't see a problem with it <@Brehon[NPO]> Keeping each other honest (if there is such a thing <%bakamitai> I believe both sides have been honest here <@Brehon[NPO]> That is why I said keeping honest vs being honest <@Brehon[NPO]> Except that Roq guy... he is too silent /tease <~Roquentin> I just haven't talked much since I don't have much to say in terms of the reps <~Roquentin> <@Brehon[NPO]> win <%bakamitai> is there anything further to discuss? <@Brehon[NPO]> I don't believe I missed anything... TCK? <@Brehon[NPO]> But it wasn't answered so let me ask again: There will be no additional reps demanded or payable for any damages doen in the 3 weeks? <@Brehon[NPO]> ahh there is one thing I forgot <~Roquentin> I don't think so <@Infinite_Citadel> None for damages, however what would you guys think about an efficiency clause for the payments? <@Brehon[NPO]> How are we dealing with those who hit us after the 21'st day? <@TCK> Infinite_Citadel <@TCK> Within reason I am ok with that <@TCK> but like i said honestly I doubt it will be needed <@Infinite_Citadel> it's just for insurance <@TCK> Our goal will be to get you guys paid off stat <@Infinite_Citadel> since the last time I coordinated terms I was intentionally $%&@ed around with <@Infinite_Citadel> so yeah <@TCK> Sure as long as it goes both ways <@TCK> Basically we don;t want to be stuck waiting for targets for 3 weeks at a time etc <@Infinite_Citadel> pending aid that expires due to the receiver's fault counts as accepted aid <@TCK> which again i seriously doubt will happen [23:35] <@Infinite_Citadel> or something like that? <@TCK> given you want your money <@Infinite_Citadel> yeah <@TCK> as well as what you just said <@TCK> once it is sent it is counted <@TCK> up to your guys to take it <@Infinite_Citadel> assuming they have the money and it can be accepted (not that I think that's going to happen, but it'd be a way around the terms) <@TCK> Sure <@Infinite_Citadel> The total terms are 809 slots, so over the course of the payment you will be allocated 81 slots that you can be 5 days or more late on. For every late slot after that it would be an additional 3 mil added to the cumulative terms. [23:38] <@Infinite_Citadel> Does that sound reasonable? <@TCK> I never saw a late charge drafted in that fashion <@TCK> I can sign on to something like x percentage of reps payable in x time <@TCK> per month etc <@TCK> IE 20 % of all cash has to be delivered in the first month of terms <@TCK> etc <@TCK> That is fine <@Infinite_Citadel> Yeah, I was looking more for a late charge form of efficiency <@TCK> again based off a whole fine <@Infinite_Citadel> since as you said earlier, you want to get these paid off asap <@TCK> not on individual slots <@TCK> But again the issue here now is that this also gets into what iof you do not provide the targets etc <@TCK> this is why doing this is a pain in the ass <@Infinite_Citadel> right, that'd be our fault <@TCK> sure <@TCK> but we would need to put that in there <@TCK> and then we would argue about who did or did not get targets when <@TCK> etc <@TCK> this basically comes down to the same thing with NPo <@Infinite_Citadel> I'm talking more along the lines of: You tell us you can handle 100 slots in one round, we give you 100, and you only send 90 <@TCK> you have to put some basic trust in us <@Infinite_Citadel> so that'd be 10 slots on your total <@TCK> we are not goingt o break terms <@TCK> ther is no reason for us to do so <@TCK> Getting into this will just be a headache <&Sardonic[GOONS]> If you're confident of your aid slot utilization capacity there is no problem <@TCK> That would besed on your expectations <@TCK> based* <&Sardonic[GOONS]> given IC's number there is more than reasonable space <@TCK> bottom line here is if we are putting in a 120 day clause obviously you are not expecting to get pain on one cycle here <@Infinite_Citadel> if you guys are worried about it, you could always keep a handful of nations in reserve to cover slots that are late <@TCK> paid* <&Sardonic[GOONS]> Is it even possible to be paid in one cycle? <@Infinite_Citadel> yes <&Sardonic[GOONS]> damn, that's a lot of dongs. <@Infinite_Citadel> but that's neither here nor there <@TCK> All I am saying is this, if you had the slots and I could put it together to do so I would love to do it that fast. Note that is not any guarantee that we would or can do that.. <@Infinite_Citadel> The total number of slots isn't the issue <&Sardonic[GOONS]> well if you'll be doing it that quickly then we won't have a problem anyway <%bakamitai> there are so many terms to violate, is it productive to enumerate all of the various penalties at this point? <@Infinite_Citadel> it's the efficiency <&Sardonic[GOONS]> well this one is just insurance <&Sardonic[GOONS]> I take it legion is paying some of this? <@Infinite_Citadel> look, we aren't going to attack you for having too many soldiers <@Infinite_Citadel> we don't care <@Infinite_Citadel> we just want to ensure our reps get paid on times <@Infinite_Citadel> time even <@TCK> And again, this is simple trust on your end <&Sardonic[GOONS]> we need to make sure legion pays. <&Sardonic[GOONS]> <@TCK> we will not break terms <@Infinite_Citadel> in an efficient manner <@TCK> there are clauses for timeframe <@TCK> etc <&Sardonic[GOONS]> I'm not saying you will <&Sardonic[GOONS]> I'd just like something written to be sure <@Infinite_Citadel> ^ <@TCK> This is the same as saying there is no guarantee that you will not war NPO eternally when they come out of PM <@TCK> it is the same argument turned around * &Jack_Tarr[FAN] Quit (Quit: ) <@TCK> You have it written with timeframe clauses <&Sardonic[GOONS]> not really no, we have a 6 month NAP/ODP thing with NPO <&Sardonic[GOONS]> after this is over <&Sardonic[GOONS]> so that's not really the same thing at all <@Infinite_Citadel> actually <&Sardonic[GOONS]> in fact, it's a written statement to provide insurance <@Infinite_Citadel> the eternal NPO thing has an insurance policy <%bakamitai> just for my benefit Sardonic, was that actually agreed to? <&Sardonic[GOONS]> yes <@Infinite_Citadel> of us not getting any reps should we violate it <@Brehon[NPO]> It was baka <&Sardonic[GOONS]> we gave you your ODP insurance, give us our money insurance <%bakamitai> was that a coalition agreement? <&Sardonic[GOONS]> yes <%bakamitai> ok, thanks <&Sardonic[GOONS]> well <@Infinite_Citadel> so the reps should also get an insurance policy of being paid to in an efficient manner <&Sardonic[GOONS]> a DH agreement <@TCK> You have money insurance <@TCK> if you are not pain ion the timeframe allocated <@TCK> you can re-declare <@TCK> that is your insurance <&Sardonic[GOONS]> I'd rather not go through all this again <@TCK> Thus the timeframe given <@TCK> I am not signing on to some 3 mil penality for a slot being 2 days late type of thing <@TCK> that is crazy <@Brehon[NPO]> TCK is right on that, its over and above <@TCK> again you want specifics in there in regards to a % within timeframes etc <@TCK> that is fine <@Infinite_Citadel> it's 5 days <@Infinite_Citadel> and you get 81 free slots <%bakamitai> sorry Sardonic, I didn't mean to suggest there was an issue. I am just trying to make sure I have everything in the document <@Brehon[NPO]> There is already money agreed with time frames, the structure is already there. <@TCK> Individual slot penality is not going to be agreed to on my end. It is well beyond anythig I have ever seen drafted in terms before <@TCK> You are the victors in this <@TCK> to that extent the ability to re-declare over breach should be insurance enough <@Infinite_Citadel> we aren't looking to redeclare, we're looking to have an efficient payment <@TCK> Since if we had the ability to breah terms and get away with it, we would not be signing terms in the first place <@TCK> which is fine. You want x ammt in x timeframe then we can specify that <@TCK> on a macro scale <&Sardonic[GOONS]> are you guys really going to drag this !@#$ out for a slot effeciency clause that you will more than likley not meet up with anyway <&Sardonic[GOONS]> come on <@Infinite_Citadel> Here's the problem with that TCK <@Infinite_Citadel> you guys could promise us 200 slots one cycle <@TCK> trying to micro manage 800 + slots with penalties is the issue here <@Infinite_Citadel> and only send 130 <@Infinite_Citadel> and do this multiple times <@Infinite_Citadel> and still meet your terms <@Infinite_Citadel> which in the end is inefficient and screws us over <@Infinite_Citadel> all you would have to do <@Infinite_Citadel> if you're that concerned about not being able to meet it <@TCK> And in the same way we can say we want 200 slots adn you only provide 150 for that cycle <@Infinite_Citadel> would be to hold 4-5 active nations and have them cover missed payments <@TCK> if we do not get the other 50 within 24 hrs are they then waived? <@Infinite_Citadel> no <@TCK> This is what we are getting into arguing this <@Infinite_Citadel> Not really, there is a difference between agreeing to an amount <@Infinite_Citadel> and pushing an amount down your throat <@Infinite_Citadel> if we were to agree to 150 slots and only give you 100 slots it'd be different <@Brehon[NPO]> Same street, different direction <@TCK> no it isn't.. <@Infinite_Citadel> but we're not that unorganized, we'll find a place and we'll know our capabilities <@TCK> it wasts out slots <@TCK> wastes* <@Brehon[NPO]> This is silly, it really is <@Infinite_Citadel> How does promoting efficiency waste your slots? If the 4-5 nations you're holding back don't need to cover missed payments, just get them to send to one of your smaller nations. <@Infinite_Citadel> You guys don't have 100% efficiency, you'll have a slot open somewhere <@TCK> People are going to be uploading slots at different times...there are multiple alliances involved here <@Infinite_Citadel> Right, and if the multiple alliances can communicate with myself or the GOONS coordinator of reps, we shouldn't run into any problems regarding the agreed upon slot totals. <@Infinite_Citadel> The only problem would be if said alliance gives us a number that they are unable to realistically fulfill <@Infinite_Citadel> thus wasting our slots <@Brehon[NPO]> I have to go pikc up my brother <@TCK> And if that becomes a perpetual problem then you would take it up with the other aa's here <@Brehon[NPO]> When you have finished this part I need to know numbers that are agreeable for those that hit us after the 21st day <@TCK> if it is perpetual you would have grounds for breah of terms <%bakamitai> I will make sure to get an answer, Brehon <@Infinite_Citadel> I like to be thorough and cut off the problems before they arise. <@TCK> what has never ever happened that I have ever seen is someone charging 3 mil in penalities for someone missing a slot <@Brehon[NPO]> Thanks baka you have our com <@TCK> Again you want a penality for % not met within a specific month etc that is fine. But those would be terms I would have to take back to everyone then <&Sardonic[GOONS]> it's only 3m if it goes below a certain level though, right? <@Infinite_Citadel> TCK: what experience do you have with reps? <@TCK> I was MoF for TPF for over a year <@TCK> did all the karma reps Session Time: Thu Apr 14 00:00:00 2011 <@Infinite_Citadel> So two years ago? <@TCK> coordinated8 different alliances paying 600 mil to pc <@TCK> plus gr and mk <@TCK> What does the timeframe have to do with anything.. <@TCK> of whan I was moF <@Infinite_Citadel> I helped move over 200k tech within the last year, most of it indirect tech. I know where problems will inevitably arise should there be no incentive to pay on time. <@Infinite_Citadel> and in an efficient manner* <@TCK> Well great, and you will be working with MoF's from various alliances as well I am sure <@TCK> Trust me i understand what you are saying <@TCK> I also know that moving 800 slots with 0 screw ups is not going to happen <@Infinite_Citadel> You would get atleast 81 slots to mess up <@TCK> regardless of how good we both are <@TCK> or anyone else involved in this <@Infinite_Citadel> and that number can be adjusted <@Infinite_Citadel> obviously screw ups are going to happen, which is why we're giving you some breathing room <@Infinite_Citadel> But there needs to be a line drawn somewhere <@TCK> We are not paying on a per slot basis. It is a pain in the ass to track, it is more work, it is more headaches, and bottom line it is assurance that shoudl not be required <@TCK> If you want x ammt of cash per cycle fine <@TCK> or per month <@TCK> but they would need to be minumums that would be met <@TCK> and i would need to take this all back to everyone on my side again <@Infinite_Citadel> How is that any more work than tracking the amount of cash? <@TCK> and get agreement <@TCK> Obviously you have to track the ammt of cash <@TCK> to know what was sent <@TCK> that is not hard <@Infinite_Citadel> We'd track the number of slots assigned and the numbers of slots actually sent. <@Infinite_Citadel> that is not hard either <@TCK> That is not what you are asking <@TCK> you are asking to track date requested...date sent <@TCK> then have a late fee <@TCK> attached to that <@TCK> but first a pool of free passes must be reduced <@Infinite_Citadel> You have 5 days leeway <@TCK> And again this will be different for each aa <@Infinite_Citadel> and the number of 'infractions' would be tracked cumulatively <@TCK> because tpf is sending on the 4rd legion may be sending on the 5th <@TCK> 3rd* <@TCK> if you rpvide the slots on the 1st <@TCK> legion is under penality already <@TCK> That is nuts <@Infinite_Citadel> that's why we *agree* on a start date for each cycle <@TCK> or each aa tells you I can move x slots starting this date...you give them those targets <@Infinite_Citadel> I'll have targets to you 3-4 days before the beginning of each cycle <@TCK> you are getting 2.4 bil here. ther is no way to move this with you guys not having a few slots that will be left open for a few days <@TCK> it does people on our end no good either to waste slots <@TCK> or time <@TCK> it is longer they are tied up with you and not aiding internally <@Infinite_Citadel> right, you'll have a 5 day window for every transaction and you'll have 81 slots to be late <@Infinite_Citadel> and the slot amount can be adjusted <@TCK> I am not doing this on a micro scale like this with late fees per cycle <@TCK> we can go over this til we are blue in the face but there is no way that makes sense for us to sign given the way it can be manipluated <@TCK> Again if you want minimums <@TCK> payable per timeframe <@TCK> that is fine <@TCK> we can work that out <@Infinite_Citadel> Look, it's not the speed of the payment that is the issue as long as you finish within the agreed time limit. It's the wasting of our slots that is the issue <%bakamitai> may I make a suggestion? <@Infinite_Citadel> go ahead bakamitai * @MrSmyth[FAN]Quit (Quit: ) <%bakamitai> 809 slots over 90 days is 90 slots per cycle, bare minimum. I take it that 100 slots per cycle would be doable by TCK, and agreeable to IC <@TCK> Sure, but he wants 100% guarantee that the 100 slots are all filled within 5 days of him giving targets <@TCK> that is the issue <%bakamitai> as long as the minimums are met, it sounds like IC is happy. however, if additional guaranteed slots become available, it should be possible for TCK to make that known to speed things up <@Infinite_Citadel> you get 81 chances to be late/not send <@Infinite_Citadel> that works just as well bakamitai, as long as the amount is met <@TCK> ok you are asking for 90% efficency <@Infinite_Citadel> if additional slots are promised, I expect them to be filled <@Infinite_Citadel> right, but that is negotiable <@TCK> what is not? <%bakamitai> ahhh I see your issue TCK <@TCK> This is not coming from one alliance <%bakamitai> let me see if I understand though. <@Infinite_Citadel> then once the amount for each alliance is allocated <@Infinite_Citadel> the set number of chances can be allocated as well <@TCK> then stillit is 90% <@Infinite_Citadel> based on the amount of the payment <@Infinite_Citadel> is 80% better <%bakamitai> IC will provide targets 3-4 days in advance of the cycle beginning, but there is a 5 day leeway from that date to get all the aid sent. is that right? <@TCK> if someone wants 30 slots they get to be late on 3 <@TCK> cmon <%bakamitai> from the beginning of the cycle <@Infinite_Citadel> no, there's a 5 day leeway from the beginning of the cycle <%bakamitai> so effectively 8-9 days from the initial notice until the aid must be sent <@Infinite_Citadel> right <%bakamitai> ok, thanks <@TCK> But if each alliance is in an off aid cycle <@TCK> then that is only accurate for the first alliance sending <@TCK> not all <@Infinite_Citadel> it can be adjusted for each alliance <@Infinite_Citadel> 's start date <@Infinite_Citadel> we could make it you have X days from the point of receiving the targets to get their assigned slots filled <@TCK> ok now for example..on the opposite end <@TCK> lets say you assign a nation 4 slots <@TCK> then they take on aid from an ally with 2 of them <@TCK> you just wasted 2 of my slots <@TCK> so i get those for free now... <@Infinite_Citadel> we'd still get 81 chances <@TCK> I mean if we are getting hit 3 mil in penality for leaving yours open I want the same concession [00:19] <@Infinite_Citadel> and we wouldn't make that mistake 81 times [00:20] <@Infinite_Citadel> that's fine <@TCK> Ok bottom line is anyting of this nature I will not be able to approve for everyone without them seeing it <@TCK> So this has to go back to proverbial comittee <@Infinite_Citadel> that's fine, just get back to me <@Infinite_Citadel> and the % number can be changed <@TCK> I understand what you are driving at from your end on this <@TCK> Again my issue is not so much the concept it is 3 mil a pop <@TCK> that is out of hand <@TCK> literally what will happen here is poeple will start bringing up other areas that sould be "fined" for non compliance <@TCK> and we get into a 22 page surender document <@TCK> that is not necessary <@Infinite_Citadel> such as? we've only discussed reps on our end <@TCK> But again, we want our aid targets on x date...if we don;t have them in 48 hrs then there is a fine....if I send aid and wastea slot for 10 days non accepted then there is a fine.. <@Infinite_Citadel> also we'd be willing to hear another amount a per infraction if your side can agree to it after talking it over <@TCK> I can think of about 15 areas in reps that are issues <@Infinite_Citadel> and they all can be addressed <@Infinite_Citadel> as long as they are written correctly <@TCK> And we have a 30 page surrender document that will take another 5 days to work out <@TCK> but that is fien <@TCK> fine* <@TCK> if that is waht we are going to do here <%bakamitai> I've written an outline, it's already onto the second page <@TCK> baka I can guarantee this is going to raise about 3 pages of legal talk in the terms <@TCK> should it be done this way <%bakamitai> not if I can help it <@TCK> because once individual fines come into play then it becomes about cyoa <@TCK> on every angle <@Infinite_Citadel> Like I said before, I'll write it if need be <%bakamitai> well, the terms are what they are. <@Infinite_Citadel> I have no issues <@Infinite_Citadel> the economic part that is <%bakamitai> lol <@TCK> should take a few days to get feedback from everyone on my end on what they want to do and how they will proceede <%bakamitai> you can trust me, I do econ for NPO. also, I'm a patent lawyer, so I do technical legal writing all the time <@TCK> in the meantime i guess we are at a stalemate still <@TCK> hopefully we can have a peace document drafted by may at this rate... <@Infinite_Citadel> The only issue is the efficiency clause correct? <%bakamitai> NPO would like to know what your side will do about people who hit us after the 21 days are up <@TCK> Infinite_Citadel yes but you have to understand I am dealing with 10 damn alliances here <@TCK> Everyone has a say on this. <@TCK> Thus why keeping it general is much easier for me <@Infinite_Citadel> I understand that, but that was your choosing. We were more than willing to negotiate with each alliance <@TCK> Which you also know would have been a much larger headache for you <@Infinite_Citadel> In the mean time, I'd get the general consensus on the terms that have been agreed upon <@TCK> Cash we are ok right now <@Infinite_Citadel> and I'll get the official word on people that hit after the 21 days <@Infinite_Citadel> for bakamitai Basic premises from logs above: [quote name='The Crimson King']Ok the tl;dr goes like this Final cash payable is 2.425 bil. I had commits for about 2.35-2.45 heading in so we wound up right there. This included all cash converted tech and also included SNAFU terms that they just happened to magically remember tonight.. And naturally even in agreement GOONS still has to $%&@ it up. The bulk of that log is in regards to payment guarantees. Now here is the thing, I cannot speak for each alliance here on this cause I have no idea how your banking systems function and what kind of efficiency you work at. The bast terms are payment starts within 1 month from peace. Those alliances wishing to leave at the signing of this document can. I know few of us want to stay in until NPO gets out. In that case it is ok, and would then have still have one month from the time of npo peace to start payment. Avalon is ok for separate peace. I slipped KN into the agreement so technically methrage is out with us.... IN regards to the requests for insurance i want to make sure everyone is clear on what they are asking here. As I am sure everyone realizes terms are given with a base timeframe for payment and sometime have a minimum ammt per cycle or month clause. (2 bil total payable over 3 months with a minimum of 500 mil in any month etc). To be clear this is NOT what they are requesting here What they want is a slot efficiency clause. Basically what this would mean in that each alliance would approach goons each cycle saying they can send X slots of aid (lets say 50 slots...150 mil) Now they will provide a target list for those slots you requested...if those slots are not all filled within 5 days from the time they are assigned they want to charge 3 mil per slot not filled additional in a penality to the alliance who screwed up. The coalition as a whole would have 81 "free passes" that are not charged. This basically equated to sending aid with a 90% efficiency for all slots requested within 5 days of when they are assigned over the entire length of terms. Plain and simple this is !@#$@#$ nuts. Granted i cannot make this cal for everyone thus why I am bringing this back here for discussion. To me this raises a ton of issues on how they can screw us over for penalty, not to mention no one has ever signed terms requiring this in the past. Now the other side to tyhis is they are open to us imposing our own penalties on them. I outlined a few in the logs that i could think of having dealt with reps before. Non compliance in a specified timeframe for targets, unaccepted aid charged a penalty on top of relinquishing claims to the slot, Unavailable or filled slots from 3 rd party sources that were assigned to us being charged back and penalized etc. So we can outright reject this or bog down the terms in legalize so dense that everytime someone forgets to sign off IRC they are getting hit 3 mil in fines. Personally i think this entire thing has gone well beyone absurd at this point. Even when they get what they want they do not know when to walk away.[/quote] [b]Terms discussed internally for CoJ by ODN, spied 4/22:[/b] 1) [Whoever] admits defeat and surrenders to ODN And then for CoJ something like (we may need to tinker with it) 2) CoJ recognizes that their actions in this war, including the infiltration of a spy into ODN, and the threatening/misleading of the ODN applicant pool and ODN protectorate were wrong. CoJ hereby apologies for their behavior. [b]Formal peace treaty written by NPO based on discussions from 4/14, submitted to Doomhouse 4/22:[/b] [quote][u][b]Preamble[/b][/u] The undersigned alliances, having engaged each other in combat, and having fought valiantly against one another, but now desiring peace, agree to end their respective hostilities according to the terms now set forth. [u][b]Article 1: Overview (tl;dr)[/b][/u] A. [center]Goon Order of Oppression, Negligence, and Sadism (GOONS), Mushroom Kingdom, and Umbrella (collectively "Doomhouse"); The International, Orange Defense Network, Athens, League of Shadows Treaty, and Greenland Republic (collectively "Complaints and Grievances Union"); Viridian Entente, FOK, Federation of Armed Nations, Open Source Alliance, The Order of the Paradox, Alchemy, and Nordreich are victorious over the alliances of New Pacific Order (NPO), The Phoenix Federation, 64Digits, SNAFU, Regnum Invictorum, Sanitarium, The Legion, Kerberos Nexus, Cult of Justitia, Molon Labe, The Sasori Initiative, and North Atlantic Defense Coalition.[/center] B. NPO admits military defeat. NPO, and anyone who wants to roll with them, will be subjected to a Limited War, followed by peace, according to the terms of Article 2. C. The remaining alliances surrender. These alliances receive immediate peace, according to the terms of Article 3. D. The defeated alliances will pay reparations according to the terms of Article 4. E. NPO and Doomhouse separately agree to a combined Non-Aggression Pact and Optional Defense Pact, whose terms are set forth in Article 5. [u][b]Article 2: Limited War[/b][/u] A. NPO, and any other alliance that wishes to subject itself to the provisions of this Article 2 (collectively, the "Article 2 Alliances"), shall remain at war until the end of the Limited War described in this Article 2. Upon completion of the Limited War, the Article 2 Alliances shall be given immediate peace. B. The Limited War shall begin on the day that NPO removes from peace mode nations whose combined nation strength totals at least 1,800,000. Nations whose individual strengths are at least 80,000 shall combine to account for at least 1,000,000 of the required total. Nations whose individual strengths are at least 50,000 but less than 80,000 shall combine to account for at least 800,000 of the required total. Strengths shall be measured as of the date this Agreement is executed. C. The Limited War shall last for 21 days. At the conclusion of this period, all undersigned alliances still involved in mutual combat shall immediately cease fighting. No action shall be required of any alliance to bring this ceasefire into effect once the 21 day period has elapsed. D. The combatants agree that no new fronts may be opened, and no new alliances may join the current conflict or the Limited War. An attack on an undersigned alliance by a member of a non-signatory alliance shall be a violation of this Agreement by the alliances that are fighting the attacked alliance at the time of the attack. [u][b]Article 3: End of Combat[/b][/u] A. Any alliance other than NPO that chooses not to subject itself to the provisions of Article 2 shall receive peace immediately upon the signing of this Agreement. B. The Article 2 Alliances shall receive peace at the conclusion of the Limited War described in Article 2. C. At the conclusion of the Limited War, all undersigned alliances shall be at mutual peace, and no wars between nations belonging to the undersigned alliances shall be permitted to exist. During the period specified in section 4(C), should any nation of a victorious alliance initiate an offensive war against any nation of an alliance that receives peace pursuant to section 3(A) or 3(B), no further unpaid reparations under Article 4 shall be owed. [u][b]Article 4: Reparations[/b][/u] A. The defeated alliances (the "payors") shall pay reparations to GOONS (the "payees") in accordance with the terms of this Article 4. B. No technology reparations shall be paid. Cash reparations shall be paid in the amount of $2.427 billion, in 809 aid slots of $3 million each. C. Reparations payments shall commence no later than one month after the date this Agreement is executed. The payors collectively must pay all reparations within four months thereafter. D. Reparations shall be paid in 10-day aid payment cycles. Each payment cycle shall be governed as follows: [list=1][*]The beginning and ending dates of each payment cycle shall be agreed between the payors and payees before the cycle begins. [*]The payees shall work together diligently with a designated representative of each individual payor alliance to ensure that both (i) the amount of payment, and (ii) the list of aid recipients for that alliance, are agreed no later than three days in advance of the beginning of the cycle. [*]Each payor alliance shall pay the Adjusted Payable Amount within the Initial Payment Period. [*]The Adjusted Payable Amount for each payor alliance is defined as the amount of payment agreed upon between the payor alliance and the payees for the cycle. However, the Adjusted Payable Amount shall be reduced by any amount that the payor alliance is unable to timely offer to an agreed aid target because that target lacks the available slots to receive that amount within the Initial Payment Period. Any such unofferable amount shall be considered paid in full. [*]The Initial Payment Period is defined as the first five days of each payment cycle. However, the Initial Payment Period for a given payor alliance shall be increased by one day for each day, after the time period specified in section 4(D)(2), that the payees fail to confirm that the payor alliance has received its list of aid recipients. [*]Aid that has been offered to an agreed aid recipient, but expires without being canceled, shall be considered paid in full. [*]Should a payor alliance fail to send the Adjusted Payable Amount within the Initial Payment Period, the payor alliance shall be assessed a late fee, owed to the payees, in the amount of the shortage. Notwithstanding the previous sentence, no fine shall be assessed until $486 million (162 aid slots) of shortages have been collectively incurred by the payors.[/list] [u][b]Article 5: NPO-DoomHouse NAP/ODP[/b][/u] A. To guarantee NPO a period to rebuild and recover after this conflict, NPO, MK, GOONS, and Umbrella (the "Treaty Alliances") agree to a combined Non-Aggression Pact and Optional Defense Pact (the "Treaty") according to the terms of this Article 5. B. The Treaty shall enter into force immediately at the conclusion of the Limited War described in Article 2, without any intervening period. No action shall be required of any Treaty Alliance to bring the Treaty into effect once the Limited War has concluded. C. The Treaty shall remain in force for six months (the "Treaty Period"), and shall expire automatically at the end of that period unless the Treaty Alliances unanimously agree otherwise. D. During the Treaty Period, no NPO nation shall wage war upon a nation of another Treaty Alliance, and no nation of another Treaty Alliance shall wage war upon any NPO nation. E. During the Treaty Period, NPO shall not incite or support a war by a non-Treaty Alliance against any other Treaty Alliance, and no other Treaty Alliance shall incite or support a war by a non-Treaty Alliance against NPO. F. During the Treaty Period, a Treaty Alliance may provide optional military, economic, or political assistance to any other Treaty Alliance that has been attacked by a non-Treaty Alliance. G. The Treaty cannot be canceled, and no Treaty Alliance may withdraw from it. Due to the lack of cancellation as an incentive to prevent violations of the Treaty's terms, the Treaty Alliances agree to the following penalties: [list=1] [*]For each violation of section 5(D), the attacking alliance shall pay the attacked nation full reparations for any damage that occurred during the Treaty Period, and shall pay an additional fine of $15 million to a nation or nations of the attacked alliance's choosing. No violation shall be assessed for a rogue attack, provided that the attacking alliance (i) expels the rogue within 24 hours of receiving notice of the attack, and (ii) does not readmit the rogue during the Treaty Period. [*]For each violation of section 5(E), the inciting or supporting alliance shall pay the other alliance a fine of $3 million. Each instance of incitement or support (including financial, technological, and military aid) shall be considered a separate violation.[/list] H. Nothing in the Treaty shall be read to prevent any Treaty Alliance from entering into another treaty with any other alliance. I. The signatories of the Treaty shall be the signatories of this Agreement from the Treaty Alliances. The Treaty shall be considered signed at the same time this Agreement is executed, but it shall enter into force in accordance with section 5(B). [u][b]Article 6: Unaddressed Violations of Terms[/b][/u] If an undersigned alliance violates any provision of this Agreement for which a penalty or penalties have not been defined, the undersigned alliances directly involved in the violation shall carefully determine an appropriate, reasonable remedy that is proportional to the seriousness of the offense. [u][b]Article 7: Completion of Terms[/b][/u] A. Unless otherwise specified, all provisions of this Agreement are effective immediately upon execution of the Agreement. B. This Agreement shall be deemed satisfied by all undersigned alliances upon completion of all of the following conditions: [list=1][*]Conclusion of the Limited War described in Article 2. [*]Cessation of all hostilities between undersigned alliances collectively, and their nations individually, in accordance with Article 3. [*]Receipt of all reparations payments described in Article 4, whether timely made or not. [*]Receipt of any and all late fees assessed pursuant to section 4(D)(7), and satisfaction of any and all remedies assessed pursuant Article 6 for violations of terms.[/list] C. For purposes of determining completion of terms only, Article 5 of this Agreement shall be considered a standalone treaty having no effect. D. The undersigned alliances shall make, at an appropriate time, a joint public announcement that the terms have been completed. The announcement shall include sufficient evidence to show that each of the conditions enumerated in section 7(B) has been completed, and shall also include a statement indicating the end date (if any) of the Treaty described in Article 5. [u][b]Article 8: Signatures[/b][/u] The undersigned alliances hereby commit themselves to these presents by the signatures of their duly designated emissaries, to wit: For Mushroom Kingdom: For the Goon Order of Oppression Negligence and Sadism: For Umbrella: For the New Pacific Order: For [Everyone else][/quote] [b]Avalon agreement with Doomhouse to keep sign a separate peace, 4/24:[/b] <Guffey[Avalon]> hey, got a minut <Guffey[Avalon]> minute* <Sardonic[GOONS]> yes <Guffey[Avalon]> I just wanted to confirm something TCK passed on to us from previous peace discussions <Sardonic[GOONS]> I'm going to take a wild guess that this is about you peacing out later <Sardonic[GOONS]> in which case, yes, that is fine <Guffey[Avalon]> Avalon is not signing that main agreement, but looking to white peace out with the rest at the end of the limited war <Sardonic[GOONS]> it seems somewhat pointless to me though <Guffey[Avalon]> something our MoFA believes really hard about <Sardonic[GOONS]> if you belive really hard you can't turn water to gasoline <Guffey[Avalon]> he doesnt want our name on any document with any reps whatsoever, regardless if we are not paying in that document <Sardonic[GOONS]> but yes, that will be fine. <Guffey[Avalon]> thanks, we really appreciate it <Sardonic[GOONS]> no problem brah <Sardonic[GOONS]> don't ever attack us again. <Guffey[Avalon]> heh <Guffey[Avalon]> granted we havnt launched a single nation at you guys <Sardonic[GOONS]> oh right <Guffey[Avalon]> just MK and umb <Sardonic[GOONS]> well don't attack us then [size="4"][b]After reviewing the treaty written by NPO, Doomhouse informed NPO that they won, so they would write the terms.[/b][/size] [b]Terms as written by Doomhouse, 4/25:[/b] I use the term "written" loosely, these could only have been worse if they had been delivered on a napkin or the back of a Chinese takeout menu. [quote][b]Preamble[/b] The New Pacific Order, The Legion, Regnum Invictorum, Sanitarium, Cult of Justitia, Molon Labe, The Sasori Initiative, The Phoenix Federation, 64Digits, SNAFU, NADC and Avalon hearby admit defeat to and surrender to the combined forces of Umbrella, Mushroom Kingdom, GOONS, The International, The Orange Defense Network, Athens, =LOST=, The Greenland Republic, FOK, The Federation of Armed Nations, The Open Source Alliance, The Order of the Paradox, Alchemy, Nordreich, and the Viridian Entente. [b]Immediate Surrender[/b] 1. The Legion, Regnum Invictorum, Sanitarium, Cult of Justitia, Molon Labe, The Sasori Initiative, The Phoenix Federation, 64Digits, SNAFU, NADC and Avalon all do herby cease all attacks on the victorious parties immediatly. 2. The Legion, Regnum Invictorum, Sanitarium, Cult of Justitia, Molon Labe, The Sasori Initiative, The Phoenix Federation, 64Digits, SNAFU, NADC and Avalon agree to not re-enter the war for any reason and on any front that can be tangentially related back to the primary conflict. [b]Reperations[/b] 1. The Legion, The Phoenix Federation, Regnum Invictorum, Cult of Justitia, The Sasori Initiative, 64Digits, Sanitarium, NADC, SNAFU (Henceforth referred too as Team Rocket) shall pay $2,427,000,000 to The Goon Order of Oppression, Negligence, and Sadism. 1a. This will be paid in a total of 809 aid slots of $3 million each. 1b. This will be paid over a maximum period of 15 cycles, with a minimum of 20% (485,400,000) being paid every 3 cycles. 2. Over the course of the payment the payors will be allocated 162 slots that they can be 5 days or more late on. 2a. For every late slot after the allocated 162, an additional $3,000,00 will be added to the cumulative terms. 3. Reparations payments shall commence no later than thirty days after the date this Agreement is executed. Team Rocket must pay all reparations within four months thereafter. 4. GOONS will give the target list to Team Rocket three days before the beginning of each cycle. 4a. Should GOONS fail to be on time for a particular round, Team Rocket will be given an additional day per day GOONS are late. 4b. GOONS will confirm that target lists have been given to the correct official before starting the countdown mentioned in article 2. 5. GOONS shall individually ensure that their agreed aid recipients have enough aid slots open for the first five days of each payment cycle to receive their assigned aid. 6. Aid that has been offered to an agreed aid recipient, but expires without being canceled due to GOONS failing to accept shall be considered a slot paid in full as long as it is GOONS' fault. 7. The Legion shall create a Microsoft?Paint picture using the theme "Let the Wookie Win" for =LOST=. [b]Apology[/b] CoJ recognizes that their actions in this war, including the infiltration of a spy into ODN, and the threatening/misleading of the ODN applicant pool and ODN protectorate were wrong. CoJ hereby apologies for said behavior. [b]Limited War[/b] 1. Umbrella, The Mushroom Kingdom, GOONS, The Federation of Armed Nations, Nordreich and the New Pacific Order will engage in a limited war. 2. For this limited war the New Pacific Order will bring out from peace mode a total of 1,800,00 NS. 2a. This NS will be broken down into two ranges. 1,000,000 NS must be brought out from nations above 80K NS, and 800,000 NS must be brought out from nations between 50K NS and 80K NS. 2b. The NS values used will be those at the signing of this document. 3. Each nation that leaves peace mode in accordance with this limited war will fight for 21 days straight. 4. After the 21 day limited war has expired for all nations who had to leave peace mode as part of terms, all hostilities on the New Pacific Order will cease immediately and the New Pacific Order will admit defeat. [b]Treaty[/b] In order to grant the New Pacific Order the opportunity to rebuild and recover, after the "Limited War" is finished, Umbrella, The Mushroom Kingdom, and GOONS (Doomhouse) will enter a six month period of non aggression with The New Pacific Order. Furthermore, during these six months, the two parties (Doomhouse and The New Pacific Order) will also have the option of defending one another should one come under attack. This treaty may not be cancelled, but will automatically expire 180 days after the limited war finishes. [b]Signatures[/b][/quote] [b]Corrections and objections to Doomhouse's draft delivered to Doomhouse, 4/25:[/b] Outside of spelling and grammar: Whats missing, needed to be added and/or clarified: 1. Parties agreed the term surrender was not applicable and thus would not be used. 2. Alliances that reserve the right stay until NPO is out of war: TPF | Avalon 3. It states 3,000,00 (aka 30,000) will be added to the cumulative terms (we are fine with this lol) 4. Legion was specifically told no lulz terms, by adding it now, this changes what was agreed to. 5. There is no penalty for failing to uphold the terms of the NAP on behalf of either party. 6. NAP was changed to a "period of non aggression" which is not what was agreed to. 7. No clause in for non escalation or new parties added for Doomhouse et al 8. Aid that has been offered to an agreed aid recipient, but expires without being canceled due to GOONS failing to accept shall be considered a slot paid in full as along as it is GOONS's fault. What exactly is this? If Doomhouse says it isn't their fault it arbitrarily doesn' count?) 9. In item 4 it states after the 21 days of limited war has expired for all nations who had to leave peace mode as part of terms, all hostilities on the NPO will cease immediately and the New Pacific Order will admit defeat, yet we did this in the very beginning of this document. 10. The part of reps being lost if the NPO is attacked after the 21 days has been removed. The original agreed term was: Should the war get extended beyond the 21 day period for any reason not having to do with a clear breach of terms by NPO, GOONS will forefit all reps payable. 11. Cycles for reps are per alliance and can have separate start dates. IE it is not a cycle wide coalition target list begin given out, this is per alliance, thus each has to be dealt with separately. 12. Avalon was supposed to get their own terms which was white peacing out separately. This was discussed and cleared via Avalon with Sardonic as late as yesterday. As agreed it would be a separate agreement that did not include any reps etc. 13. Terms for the Coalition (not including the "limited war") are to begin once peace is met with the NPO and not upon signatures to this document. 14. There is no need for a non reentry clause if we have a global non escalation as that stops anyone further from attacking (the non escalation). 15. Additional clarification, fronts already in the war cannot expand their front, IE an alliance that was originally attack alliance X, suddenly decides to declare on alliance Y or similar, this is an escalation regardless of the previous front. 16. In regard to the paying of reps, it is stated those paying can be 5 or more days late on. Compared to what? When does the timer start, when they get the list, based on a date. This needs to be clarified. 17. CoJ apology was not in our original agreed terms. Do we want to get into sanctions and other common war stances about trades, aiding and etc. ODN told CoJ not to attack TFE and they didn't, and there are no factually incorrect statements in the spam to ODN Applicant. The spying was done after ODN refused to accept surrender from CoJ on 3 occassions. All of the above was talked about and agreed to during the talks and should not be vague in this document. [size="4"][b]By this point, Viridian Entente and other Pandora's Box AAs had entered the Doomhouse front, but were not actively involved in peace negotiations; however, VE raised an issue which threatened to derail the entire peace agreement when Avalon attacked 4 VE nations because [i]VE declared war on Avalon.[/i] Fortunately, the crisis was averted when Avalon decided to be the bigger men[/b][/size] <Sardonic[GOONS]> ok <Sardonic[GOONS]> we have a huge problem <TCK> what's up <Sardonic[GOONS]> oh there you are, good <Sardonic[GOONS]> I need you to have Avalon stop hitting VE. Avalon never declared war on VE and it's really pissing VE off. <Sardonic[GOONS]> VE is threatening to demand reps from Avalon if this continues <TCK> I thought VE was staying in <Sardonic[GOONS]> VE is staying in <TCK> They would only be on avalon <TCK> So they want to stay in...and fight no one... <TCK> what the hell kind of sense does that make <Sardonic[GOONS]> idk <TCK> Well you have to give me something to work off of here <Sardonic[GOONS]> they are fighting NADC too atm I believe <TCK> Right, which would be peaced <TCK> once this is posted <TCK> I am not sure how the avalon/ve front started tbh <TCK> But this still makes no sense to me <Sardonic[GOONS]> oh, right <TCK> So in VE peaces with NADC when this goes up, they only have avalon left <TCK> thus why they were staying in <Sardonic[GOONS]> ah <TCK> but now they want avalon to stop hitting them? <TCK> while they stay in a wr for 3 weeks fighting only avalon.. <Sardonic[GOONS]> hold on <TCK> also just checked with avalon <TCK> ve hit them first <Sardonic[GOONS]> ah <TCK> which adds even mor econfusion <TCK> more * <Sardonic[GOONS]> yeah. <TCK> http://forums.cybern...howtopic=100279 <TCK> DoW ^^^^^ <Sardonic[GOONS]> oh right <Sardonic[GOONS]> okay yeah VE is being kind of weird about this <Sardonic[GOONS]> can you ask avalon to peace out with VE and just focus on DH? <Sardonic[GOONS]> because otherwise this is going to get very messy the second those nukes hit <Sardonic[GOONS]> And as a party in the peace talks I think you'll agree we don't want anything !@#$@#$ this up and delaying the peace *again* <TCK> xoin> [20:25:48] <Impero[VE]> great <TCK> <xoin> [20:26:24] <Impero[VE]> just wanted to let you guys know that we will not be partaking in the agreement you worked out with MK et all <TCK> <xoin> [20:26:46] <Impero[VE]> and will be working out a seperate peace with you guys ourselves <TCK> that mkes me believe they are willing to just peace this out whenever <TCK> makes* <TCK> I don't think Avalon would have any issue with that <Sardonic[GOONS]> ok good <Sardonic[GOONS]> then we can get avalon and VE peace, now, before those nukes hit. <TCK> if ve wants to post a seperate peace with them when this goes up <Sardonic[GOONS]> right <TCK> let me just double check <TCK> with them <Sardonic[GOONS]> k <Sardonic[GOONS]> thank you for the help with this btw <TCK> also what is the thing about "those nukes hitting" <Sardonic[GOONS]> well yesterday 4 nations attacked VE <Sardonic[GOONS]> real soon here they're going to be able to drop nukes on VE <TCK> VE declared on them...now they don;t want to get nuked? <Sardonic[GOONS]> this will piss them off as they're viewing it as an escalation thing <Sardonic[GOONS]> yes I know it's dumb, just work with me here. <TCK> wait....they attacked back is an escalation? <Sardonic[GOONS]> no, VE is viewing the 4 nations' attacks and nukings of them as an escallation <TCK> yanno this war just keeps getting dumber and dumber (not blaming you here) <Sardonic[GOONS]> because they hadn't been attacked by avalon for weeks or something <Sardonic[GOONS]> !@#$@#$ a-men <TCK> Just so I am clear, will VE still be peacing through the main agreement with NADC <TCK> or are they looking to have seperate peace all around <Sardonic[GOONS]> no I'm certain they're fine with NADC <TCK> it "we are not partaking in the Mk peace agreement" line has me curious <Sardonic[GOONS]> and being part of the central agreement <TCK> just want to make sure they are still signing onto that <Sardonic[GOONS]> i'll make sure <Sardonic[GOONS]> <&Sardonic[GOONS]> also you are still peacing out with NADC as part of the limited war peace agreement, correct? <Sardonic[GOONS]> <&Goldie[VE]> who doesnt come on IRC <Sardonic[GOONS]> <&Goldie[VE]> yes, we have no issue with that <TCK> ok and leaving the conflict at that point <Sardonic[GOONS]> right <Sardonic[GOONS]> also your xoin guy just referred goldie to his mofa <TCK> ok, just making sure <Sardonic[GOONS]> who is never on irc <TCK> who? <Sardonic[GOONS]> we need to get this done before update <Sardonic[GOONS]> no idea <Sardonic[GOONS]> also I asked goldie to try to get xoin to call off the nations at war with VE currently, maybe get a ceasefire up <Sardonic[GOONS]> so we can have more time on this <TCK> This is incredibly dumb <Sardonic[GOONS]> welcome to CN <Sardonic[GOONS]> lol <TCK> No !@#$ right <Sardonic[GOONS]> looking forward to being done with the war <TCK> Honestly this sounds like someone pounded down a 12 pack during the draft today and is not thinking clearly <Sardonic[GOONS]> lol <TCK> We are literally having this convo over 4 nukes... <Sardonic[GOONS]> I know, I know <TCK> we have been at war for over 3 months...and now we are bickerong over 4 nukes... <TCK> it is at the point where all I can do is laugh <Sardonic[GOONS]> well we may as well laugh, we've gotten everything else out of the way <TCK> is everything cool with the NPO end <TCK> I did not get a chance to talk to Brehon yet today <TCK> just got on when I queried you <Sardonic[GOONS]> according to the logs I've read <Sardonic[GOONS]> yes <Sardonic[GOONS]> everything is good to go <TCK> ok, !@#$ has been changing so often that it is prudent to ask <Sardonic[GOONS]> aye <TCK> I guess goldie was given Syn's nation link etc to send the offer to. Xion is going to try to get Syn online and emailed him and all that <Sardonic[GOONS]> ok <TCK> i'll keep you updated on my end, and please do the same on your side <Sardonic[GOONS]> of course <TCK> and I will now want 1 peanut for every nuke goons hits TPF with after update tonight for the remainder of the war <Sardonic[GOONS]> lol <TCK> or you get HoT as a member for one day per....your choice <Sardonic[GOONS]> I'd rather eat glass <Sardonic[GOONS]> can you just ask me to do that instead? <TCK> lol, i would but then we would have to bicker on how the term is written into the agreement for the next week <Sardonic[GOONS]> yes and then we would spend the week after that debating if glass was a solid or a liquid <TCK> and lest us not forget what percentage of the glass you must eat, and how quickly <Sardonic[GOONS]> lol [b]Final Agreement, 5/2:[/b] http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=101542 Edited June 9, 2011 by Schattenmann Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sargun II Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 tl;dr: tl;dr Interesting information but good god I'd forgotten everything by halfway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalasin Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 (edited) Even if hypothetically these terms were ~evil~ it's not going to make much difference. This world is going to end with PB/DH on top (possibly there'll be a split, but I think too many people are barely around enough to have major disputes) and with the Orders in diplomatic isolation, even from each other (because nobody wants treaties with them given their history.) It's just the state of affairs. I don't think the things PB/DH are doing are anything like what the old hegemony did, and before hot comes at me with 'but that doesn't make what they're doing right!!!11!1one' no, it doesn't, but it does provide a reference point with which to judge PB/DH's current actions. But I can't be bothered going through and making a giant list of the surrender terms ex-Heg imposed. Edited June 8, 2011 by Kalasin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R3nowned Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 [quote name='Kalasin' timestamp='1307511110' post='2726733'] Even if hypothetically these terms were ~evil~ it's not going to make much difference. This world is going to end with PB/DH on top (possibly there'll be a split, but I think too many people are barely around enough to have major disputes) and with the Orders in diplomatic isolation, even from each other (because nobody wants treaties with them given their history.) It's just the state of affairs. I don't think the things PB/DH are doing are anything like what the old hegemony did, and before hot comes at me with 'but that doesn't make what they're doing right!!!11!1one' no, it doesn't, but it does provide a reference point with which to judge PB/DH's current actions. But I can't be bothered going through and making a giant list of the surrender terms ex-Heg imposed. [/quote] Everytime you post, a puppy dies. Please stop. @OP: Seems like there was very little change from the first negotiated terms to the final terms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alfred von Tirpitz Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 Good to see that people still have the time and energy to sit through those discussions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feanor Noldorin Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 (edited) What exactly is the point of all of this? Edit: No, I didn't read the OP. Why in the hell anyone would is beyond me. Edited June 8, 2011 by Feanor Noldorin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hereno Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 I actually did read through that entire post. Holy crap. Mildly interesting to see how stuff went down though; thanks for posting it. Also, I noticed the same thing R3nowned did about the terms not changing too much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schattenmann Posted June 8, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Feanor Noldorin' timestamp='1307512697' post='2726760'] What exactly is the point of all of this? Edit: No, I didn't read the OP. Why in the hell anyone would is beyond me. [/quote] [i]Weeeee, look at me, I'm being an assmaster for no apparent reason.[/i] Maybe if you had read the OP you could have saved your butthole the effort of speaking: [quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1307510457' post='2726720'] I thought this would be interesting to those on the sidelines.[/quote] Edited June 8, 2011 by Schattenmann Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schattenmann Posted June 8, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 [quote name='R3nowned' timestamp='1307511905' post='2726750'] Everytime you post, a puppy dies. Please stop. @OP: Seems like there was very little change from the first negotiated terms to the final terms. [/quote] [quote name='Hereno' timestamp='1307513047' post='2726764'] I actually did read through that entire post. Holy crap. Mildly interesting to see how stuff went down though; thanks for posting it. Also, I noticed the same thing R3nowned did about the terms not changing too much. [/quote] The change boils down to: [code] Original reps Percent share (out of 3.28b) Negotiated reps Legion: 2 bil Legion: 61% Legion: (1.8bil * .61) 1.098 billion TPF: 400 mil TPF: 12.2% TPF: 219 mil CoJ: 400 mil CoJ: 12.2% CoJ 219 mil Invicta: 300 mil Invicta: 9.15% Invicta: 165 million San: 100 mil Sanitarium: 3% San: 54 mil 64D: 80 Mil 64D: 2.45% 64D 45 million Total: 3.28 billion 100% Total 1.8 billion[/code] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feanor Noldorin Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1307513049' post='2726765'] Maybe if you had read the OP you could have saved your ass the effort of speaking: [/quote] Oh, so its just logs of negotiations? Oh joy. Assmaster? There is no reason for name calling, honestly. Edited June 8, 2011 by Feanor Noldorin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schattenmann Posted June 8, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 (edited) Feanor, if you're going to insist on this, then at least come smart. If world events don't interest you, there are "what are you listening to" threads and "favorite anime" threads that I'm sure you can enjoy more than half-assed toxic shock syndrome posts in a thread you don't care about. I don't call names, I call truths. Page 1 is prime real estate, so I'm ignoring you until we get past it. Edited June 8, 2011 by Schattenmann Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Williambonney Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 [quote name='Kalasin' timestamp='1307511110' post='2726733'] snip [/quote] I think someone has begun to develop a complex. Do you ever post anything that isn't unrational anti NP/pO drivel, or even mind that you slight anyone that posts anything to the contrary of your own ideals? Thanks for the post Schatt, very informative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanilla Napalm Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 Man, we really have to get the ball rolling. This type of evil is just so humdrum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Impero Romano Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 (edited) Sardonic found out later that day there was more to the story of why we washed our hands of that arrangement, and it had little to nothing to do with Avalon, 4 wars, or nukes (you can look back to the thread if your curious, I think I pretty much gave a clear illusion there). It was cleaned up though, so sorry for the lack of dirty laundry. Edited June 8, 2011 by Il Impero Romano Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kriekfreak Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 [quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1307513464' post='2726771'] The change boils down to: [code] Original reps Percent share (out of 3.28b) Negotiated reps Legion: 2 bil Legion: 61% Legion: (1.8bil * .61) 1.098 billion TPF: 400 mil TPF: 12.2% TPF: 219 mil CoJ: 400 mil CoJ: 12.2% CoJ 219 mil Invicta: 300 mil Invicta: 9.15% Invicta: 165 million San: 100 mil Sanitarium: 3% San: 54 mil 64D: 80 Mil 64D: 2.45% 64D 45 million Total: 3.28 billion 100% Total 1.8 billion[/code] [/quote] Just post that table next time instead of a brickwall of logs. So you guys negotiated down from the original reps? WAY TO GO. A+ FOR YOUR EFFORT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lebubu Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 Thanks for the info! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattski133 Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 That looked like a lot of effort for a really insignificant sheet of information. Bottom line is, our reps pale in comparison to the cash given to GOONS by two allies. Less than one sixth, really (i think we ended at 12 billion in the airdrop). And that was delivered in three months by nations at war. Or at least at war as it's fought today. I guess I get it, but really I feel like whatever this is...a shot to show that a group of people aren't always on the same page, or that you successfully lowered reps in a war where you clearly had the disadvantage...that part was mostly because your reps are basically a drop in the pond. Why argue over a nickel when you've already gotten a dollar? And when that dollar came without any strings attached and without any impossibly long posts. If that were me at the negotiation table I'd make every effort to remind you of how little the cash you relentlessly campaigned against actually represents in this time. I could have selected two GOONS nations pre-war that had more than 1.8 billion on them. I mean, I know of one Legion nation that had more than that. Why? Why do it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balkan Banania Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 Information for us peons is never a bad thing, thanks. Personally I appreciate it when some of the politics are coming in the open. Also maybe I am blind, but I didn't catch any anti-DH/PB propaganda attempt. It is a post concerning recent "history" and events, thus it has its importance as is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sardonic Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1307513464' post='2726771'] The change boils down to: [code] Invicta: 300 mil Invicta: 9.15% Invicta: 165 million [/code] [/quote] Invicta agreed to 666m. Regardless, I have no idea what you're getting at here. The numbers started high and were negotiated to a reasonable and agreed-to level. Also: [quote]And naturally even in agreement GOONS still has to $%&@ it up.[/quote] Love you too TCK. Edited June 8, 2011 by Sardonic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobalt Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 new hegemony, karma was a lie, etc etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kzoppistan Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 An interesting breakdown. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandwich Controversy Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 Interesting to say the least. [i]not!!!!![/i] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schattenmann Posted June 8, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 (edited) [quote name='mattski133' timestamp='1307534583' post='2726899'] I guess I get it, but really I feel like whatever this is...a shot to show that a group of people aren't always on the same page, or that you successfully lowered reps in a war where you clearly had the disadvantage...that part was mostly because your reps are basically a drop in the pond. [/quote][quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1307510457' post='2726720'] I thought this would be interesting to those on the sidelines.[/quote] [quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1307538269' post='2726918'] Regardless, I have no idea what you're getting at here. [/quote][quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1307510457' post='2726720'] I thought this would be interesting to those on the sidelines.[/quote] Folks, this is pretty cut-and-dried. I know I do a lot of political and satirical essays and presentations, but you can save yourselves the effort of trying to assign motives to what amounts to a museum exhibit. There's no political point being made. There were maybe 25 or 30 people involved in determining the terms, but there were maybe 1500 people effected by the terms and lots of third parties; now they are privy to the process. [quote name='Sandwich Controversy' timestamp='1307546739' post='2726989'] Interesting to say the least. [i]not!!!!![/i] [/quote] It is a not joke! Hey mang, how've you been? I never see you around lately. Edited June 8, 2011 by Schattenmann Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HalfEmpty Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 Thanks for the I-Wuz-There view. TCK is worse than Slayer about nifty inside info. Really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Janova Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 This will be an interesting information dump in some months when there are new rulers and lots of people have forgotten the details. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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