White Chocolate Posted June 10, 2011 Report Share Posted June 10, 2011 Are the alliance/bloc big shots just going insane these days, or are terms usually THAT involved to figure out? Because IF that's "normal" - and taking into account the so-called "terms" in the recent "we want our reps" war, no wonder no one fights anyone else other than on a grand scale! People - IF you REALLY want more war action, STOP discouraging it with terms that make any sane alliance leader oh, and those of you who agree to some of this stuff...one question... WHY???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurion Posted June 10, 2011 Report Share Posted June 10, 2011 (edited) I'm sure this'll be interesting reading a couple years from now (and something for people to argue over). Right now, meh. So negotiations were convoluted? That's hardly uncommon. Edited June 10, 2011 by Aurion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trance addict Posted June 10, 2011 Report Share Posted June 10, 2011 what is the point of this? [quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1307592282' post='2727615'] I'm pretty sure I haven't had any friends for a while but thanks for the newsflash. [b]The second sentence of the OP says the point of this thread[/b].Yeah I stayed out of the negotiations for a reason. [/quote] [quote name='youwish959' timestamp='1307599041' post='2727695'] [b]The second sentence of the OP does not say what you gained from such a posting[/b]. So next time you want to give me your !@#$%^&* cookie cutter response prepared well before such questions were asked, perhaps you should read my questions! [/quote] [quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1307634828' post='2727911'] Read carefully, [b]numbskull[/b], because I'm only going to walk you through this once and then you're on your own again:You asked:Your question is "[b]what is the point of this[/b]" with your own interpretation of what the point is phrased as a question-that-isn't-really-a-question, the implication that I am "trying to gain something."The answer to your question--which negates your presumptuous interpretation--is: [/quote] Watch whom you call numbskull because he is right, the second sentence in the OP: There are basically two periods of terms; initially, each alliance was talking to their opponents individually, but after about a month of terms-of-the-day in this manner, we all started negotiating on the coalition level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xoindotnler Posted June 10, 2011 Report Share Posted June 10, 2011 [quote name='trance addict' timestamp='1307736062' post='2728762'] what is the point of this? [/quote] I think its to counter the "well its your fault that you delayed peace for so long" argument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schattenmann Posted June 11, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 11, 2011 (edited) I would like to thank Trance Addict for pointing out that it was the first sentence, not the second (which was a hyperbolic rhetorical device to begin with) thereby reinforcing my stance that people asking what the point was are illiterate, think I'm lying about nothing, or actually replied without even reading the first (literally) sentence. Thank you Trance Addict, your pithy literalism has saved the day. Edited June 11, 2011 by Schattenmann Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ardus Posted June 11, 2011 Report Share Posted June 11, 2011 You people act like this is a lot. This is a small fraction of the work and words that went into peace for the last war. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImperialCubanacan Posted June 11, 2011 Report Share Posted June 11, 2011 I honestly tried reading the entire original posting; I grew too tired of it. There's maybe 50 people out of 18,000 that would read that. However, congratulations on putting all of the data together. I still do not grasp why people put so much math effort into calculating this !@#$. Just blow things up, shake hands, and move on. People e-lawyer so much these days and act as if this is the real world. That said, there [i]is[/i] a need for those who bother to calculate the costs of warfare, so those who claim victory can get their spoils (if so needed) and plan their next big war. Which is the intrinsic nature of MMORPGs. The war was fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azaghul Posted June 11, 2011 Report Share Posted June 11, 2011 (edited) Some of it was vaguely amusing to skim through, most was pretty inconsequential in the grand scheme of things. Edited June 11, 2011 by Azaghul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schattenmann Posted June 11, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 11, 2011 [quote name='Ardus' timestamp='1307774088' post='2729077'] You people act like this is a lot. This is a small fraction of the work and words that went into peace for the last war. [/quote] The idea wasn't to post every discussion that went into the terms, but to post a progression of the terms, wwhich may have been a convoluted wording on my part. This is meant to simply present a gallery of terms, and specifically to stay away from 10 pages of logs; however, I did think there was merit in including the big decisive conversation that ended up shaping the final terms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jens of the desert Posted June 11, 2011 Report Share Posted June 11, 2011 Read through pretty much all of it and skimmed parts. Most disappointed in VE and their response to Avalon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ardus Posted June 12, 2011 Report Share Posted June 12, 2011 [quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1307819563' post='2729338'] The idea wasn't to post every discussion that went into the terms, but to post a progression of the terms, wwhich may have been a convoluted wording on my part. This is meant to simply present a gallery of terms, and specifically to stay away from 10 pages of logs; however, I did think there was merit in including the big decisive conversation that ended up shaping the final terms. [/quote] I'm aware. Nonetheless most of the posts in this thread bemoan "wow, so much work, I'm not reading that" when your OP is already a summary of sorts. It's a poor, lazy attitude and a tragically apt example of the current state of the world. If people can't put forth the effort to read the OP, I wouldn't expect them to put forth the effort to actually do the things it summarizes, let alone shake up the world in a way that would require such work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schattenmann Posted June 12, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 12, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Ardus' timestamp='1307842093' post='2729489'] I'm aware. Nonetheless most of the posts in this thread bemoan "wow, so much work, I'm not reading that" when your OP is already a summary of sorts. It's a poor, lazy attitude and a tragically apt example of the current state of the world. If people can't put forth the effort to read the OP, I wouldn't expect them to put forth the effort to actually do the things it summarizes, let alone shake up the world in a way that would require such work. [/quote] Ah, yes. Hence my heavy-handedness with the intelligence insults. There are lots of things I've skipped because they were not relevant to my interests or important to my work and too long to spend the time on given that, but I don't go out of my way to advertise that I'm a disinterested idiot in those cases. It's wrong, but I'm old and 4 years of durr piles up on a man's shoulders and makes him mean. Edited June 12, 2011 by Schattenmann Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshuaR Posted June 12, 2011 Report Share Posted June 12, 2011 You're not mean, Schattenmann. Some people just want to waste their time in a thread that they themselves profess to be uninteresting to themselves. This is a cool set of historical documents with only short introductory commentary for people to peruse in order to gain a greater understanding for how wars end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord of the Dance Posted June 14, 2011 Report Share Posted June 14, 2011 For the record, whilst I was busily pounding him into the dust I did try to help Schattenmann with his play. He rejected it and deleted the message. Think on that when you are handing cash over to GOONS fellow Justitians, your leader had the chance to save you from the ignominy. Your cash has really helped us spruce up the place. We all have footspas now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pezstar Posted June 14, 2011 Report Share Posted June 14, 2011 Having participated in plenty of negotiations and discussions in my years here, I rather enjoyed the peace talks STA had this time. Us- "Peace now?" Them- "Yep. Just agree to stay out and you're done." Us- "Ok! Posting now. Have a good one!" That's a pretty good summary. It was a welcome change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyperion321 Posted June 14, 2011 Report Share Posted June 14, 2011 Considering that I've never been in a peace negotiation that didn't want to make me start a genocide on the human race, I don't really think I want to start reading this OP... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schattenmann Posted June 16, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 16, 2011 [quote name='Lord of the Dance' timestamp='1308063233' post='2731127'] Think on that when you are handing cash over to GOONS fellow Justitians, your leader had the chance to save you from the ignominy. Your cash has really helped us spruce up the place. We all have footspas now. [/quote] Oh no! They're grabbing their pitchforks and gathering in the temple plaza! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ardus Posted June 17, 2011 Report Share Posted June 17, 2011 [quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1308244673' post='2732504'] Oh no! They're grabbing their pitchforks and gathering in the temple plaza! [/quote] Whatever you do, don't look out at Justitia Square. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denial Posted June 17, 2011 Report Share Posted June 17, 2011 During my 5+ years in the Cyberverse, and having been involved in or privy to the details of quite a number of peace treaty negotiations, I have to say I've never seen a process that was as long, annoying, and downright pointless as this one. It's as if the new strategy of gaining more favourable terms is to overwhelm the victor with paperwork, pedantry and outright idiocy. I applaud my fellow coalition government members who chose to put up with the weeks of incessant !@#$, because I sure as hell wasn't interested in doing so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schattenmann Posted June 17, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Ardus' timestamp='1308287452' post='2732923'] Whatever you do, don't look out at Justitia Square. [/quote] Yeah, the implication that Justitians didn't know and reject the terms GOONS offered themselves was just silly. [quote name='Denial' timestamp='1308289639' post='2732941'] paperwork, pedantry and outright idiocy.[/quote]No kidding, I mean did you see where you guys forgot 0s on your own damn reps? Talk about idiots. [quote name='Denial' timestamp='1308289639' post='2732941'] I applaud my fellow coalition government members who chose to put up with the weeks of incessant !@#$, because I sure as hell wasn't interested in doing so. [/quote]SUPRISE!!!! As it turns out, when you attack an alliance for no other reason than to prune its NS and activate a bunch of defensive treaties, then start demanding "reparations," apologies, and another month of war post-peace agreement, you have to "put up" with the people you t-boned. If you don't understand/can't handle that, it probably is for the best that you're not in charge of anything right now. Perhaps you're familiar with the saying "you break it, you bought it." Despite your unwarranted offensive attacks everyone over here was perfectly fine walking away and getting on with life. It is your alliance and its allies which began this process when it began making demands of money, tech, and war as a reward beyond victory. If you guys are just too cool for school on the politics side of things, you could have just taken the victory and been happy, but when you didn't, you bought it. Edited June 17, 2011 by Schattenmann Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banedon Posted June 17, 2011 Report Share Posted June 17, 2011 (edited) From what I was reading on the Legion boards and the various threadnoughts during the war, I already knew the GOONS/MK were being petty little pansies. This just confirms it. DH/PB wanted a fast blitzkrieg of a curbstomp and instead they got stuck in protracted trench-warfare. Instead of just rolling over and playing dead, the coalition kept hurting them. Admittedly our coalition co-ordination sucked, and even our Legion planning was woefully inadequate to the task. But we all kept slogging away for 90+ days against seemingly half the planet and that just wasn't supposed to happen. Reading the failure that VE went through left me laughing out loud and shaking my head. You have to *work* to achieve that level of stupid. VE: We DoW on Avalon! Avalon: We repond to your DoW! VE: GOONS! Make Avalon stop! Make them stop right this minute! They can't attack us! This is an escalation! Dear god VE, did your leadership eat paste as a kid? Edited June 17, 2011 by Banedon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schattenmann Posted June 17, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2011 [quote name='Banedon' timestamp='1308331140' post='2733118'] Dear god VE, did your leadership eat paste as a kid? [/quote] What kind of in-home nurse would put glue in a kid's feeding tube? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banedon Posted June 17, 2011 Report Share Posted June 17, 2011 [quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1308331690' post='2733123'] What kind of in-home nurse would put glue in a kid's feeding tube? [/quote] A really mean one? Say, Nurse Ratchet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HHAYD Posted June 17, 2011 Report Share Posted June 17, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Denial' timestamp='1308289639' post='2732941'] During my 5+ years in the Cyberverse, and having been involved in or privy to the details of quite a number of peace treaty negotiations, I have to say I've never seen a process that was as long, annoying, and downright pointless as this one. It's as if the new strategy of gaining more favourable terms is to overwhelm the victor with paperwork, pedantry and outright idiocy. I applaud my fellow coalition government members who chose to put up with the weeks of incessant !@#$, because I sure as hell wasn't interested in doing so. [/quote] If you haven't noticed by now, everything is serious business, and I do believe everything will become more serious. Eventually, Cyber Nations will be as known as Cyber Negotiations. Edited June 17, 2011 by HHAYD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hiro Nakara Posted June 17, 2011 Report Share Posted June 17, 2011 [quote name='Banedon' timestamp='1308331140' post='2733118'] From what I was reading on the Legion boards and the various threadnoughts during the war, I already knew the GOONS/MK were being petty little pansies. This just confirms it. DH/PB wanted a fast blitzkrieg of a curbstomp and instead they got stuck in protracted trench-warfare. Instead of just rolling over and playing dead, the coalition kept hurting them. Admittedly our coalition co-ordination sucked, and even our Legion planning was woefully inadequate to the task. But we all kept slogging away for 90+ days against seemingly half the planet and that just wasn't supposed to happen. Reading the failure that VE went through left me laughing out loud and shaking my head. You have to *work* to achieve that level of stupid. VE: We DoW on Avalon! Avalon: We repond to your DoW! VE: GOONS! Make Avalon stop! Make them stop right this minute! They can't attack us! This is an escalation! Dear god VE, did your leadership eat paste as a kid? [/quote] When you say your coalition was in deep trench warfare, that excludes LOLegion obviously, because what tiny fraction of fighting you did was terrible and laughable at best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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