RoK is no longer SuperFriendly

[Mesteut]

[quote name='youwish959' timestamp='1299830944' post='2659750']
That sounds like a threat to me. Although not a direct threat, certainly an implied one; coming from a personality such as Xiphosis.
[/quote]
Because Xiphosis is the single person that dictates SF foreign policy, riiiight.

[quote name='Farnsworth' timestamp='1299838508' post='2659824']
I don't know the inner workings of SF, of course, but it would be interesting to find out how it operates. If the bloc is to consistently operate as a unified body then it seems a bloc-wide vote would need to occur to make sure one particular "side" in any given conflict is chosen. Assuming this is done prior to the entry of any SF member into the war, as would only be fair, then the result should be compulsory - remember, this is following the assumption that SF supersedes ALL other treaties. This situation is a bit dicey as such a vote could have landed in favor of siding with NpO, but then what are alliances like GOD to do about their MADPs with alliances like VE? - the reverse of this is what happened with Rok and Rok chose to not leave their non-SF ally out to dry, a move generally respected outside of SF and other negatively effected parties, though that's expected since a significant portion of those not negatively effected were positively effected.
[/quote]
I cannot give out exact inner workings for obvious reasons (state secrets for everyone!), but I can safely say that when we were joining Superfriends, it was REALLY stressed out to us that Superfriends come first. Besides, a "super" friend should come before an ordinary friend by definition, eh? =p

[quote name='hizzy' timestamp='1299859298' post='2659963']
The thing is, when 2 people who have access to 1 issue tell me 2 different stories, I'm going to weigh them on a couple of factors; 1) who's the more reliable source, and 2) which story is more likely to have occurred based on recent trends.

So right now it's basically people from GOD/CSN (who have arguably lost credibility with most of Planet Bob), against Hoo/RoK, who I know personally to be one of the more truthful people around these parts save myself ). Pretty easy to pick one there.[/quote]
Lost credibility? Not much has actually changed, if you actually look around. Our friends still friends, our enemies still enemies. Realpolitik seems to dictate what people believe in general nowadays.

Trying to present a logical argument to somebody on your side is like arguing for evolution. There's a polar opposite side that will never believe in logical arguments and empirical evidence, but the more your arguments seem deluded, the better for everybody else who aren't basing stuff off of prejudice.

Also, you may want to at least act like you care about arguments in general. You just admitted to not caring about opposing arguments at all - not much of a discussion when you say you're conveniently going to block your ears.

Oh, and what you did is called "Ad Hominem". Logical fallacy bent on attacking the person who makes the argument instead of the argument itself. Could be fine if everything depended solely on our credibility, but we have a thread full of people arguing here which points out to general trends for each side. Yours is paranoid, FYI, [i]as evidenced by the quoted segment following this sentence[/i].

[quote]As for the story itself; what's more likely? That Xiphosis, Mr. "You're either with us or against us", threatened to put RoK up for expulsion, or that he just had a mutual disagreement and RoK blew it out of proportion? Again, pretty easy choice.[/quote]
One man's words mean nothing, and my original post does include Xiphosis mentioning he could bring up the vote. RoK could've acted like a friend and actually TALKED with us. Currently, all we're getting is evasion and this childish tantrum over the boards.

[quote]You can't spend all your time acting like jackasses and trumpeting how little you care about the peanut gallery, promoting people based on childish behaviour, and then expect anyone to take you seriously when you need it.
[/quote]
Having a sense of humour is a crime?

We in Superfriends know when to be serious and when to take things lightly. This is a serious matter.

Unless you're referring to something else that is, in which case you'd need to make yourself clearer.

[MrMuz]

Funny how so many people who aren't involved are trying to play SF as the bad guys here. It is still RoK's sovereign right to treaty whomever they want, but if those treaties run opposite to SF's direction, there's just not much purpose to being in the same bloc.

Disappointing to see that it's come to this in just a few months, but good luck in your new direction, Ragnarok.

[Doitzel]

[quote name='Mesteut' timestamp='1299860769' post='2659971']
Because Xiphosis is the single person that dictates SF foreign policy, riiiight.
[/quote]
You must be new around here.

[hizzy]

oooooh ad hominem, you've swayed me with your latin. Congrats on taking PHI 101.

You might have a point if your argument consisted of anything more than "no, that's not what happened, please believe me", but it doesn't. It's a case of your word vs someone else's, and unfortunately for you the other person is more credible. You have nobody to blame but yourself.

And don't bring the whole "your side, our side" issue into this, I have no side. I criticize everyone equally, even when it's my former allies. If you feel that you're getting criticized too much, then there's a reason for that too.

[Schattenmann]

[quote name='Mesteut' timestamp='1299860769' post='2659971']
I cannot give out exact inner workings for obvious reasons (state secrets for everyone!), but I can safely say that when we were joining Superfriends, it was REALLY stressed out to us that Superfriends come first. Besides, a "super" friend should come before an ordinary friend by definition, eh? =p
[/quote]
So much the more that RoK should ditch Superfriends for following GOD to VE's side and rushing into the war minutes before RoK could post their DoW--[i]in full knowledge [/i]that RoK had decided to honor the treaty VE forced them to honor by attacking Polaris--to avoid assisting RoK in order to support VE, an outside alliance which has been rejected from SF on more than one occasion.

[Mesteut]

[quote name='Doitzel' timestamp='1299861381' post='2659977']
You must be new around here.
[/quote]
I was in CSN before we joined Superfriends.

[quote name='hizzy' timestamp='1299861593' post='2659981']
oooooh ad hominem, you've swayed me with your latin. Congrats on taking PHI 101.[/quote]
Actually high school level philosophy.

[quote]You might have a point if your argument consisted of anything more than "no, that's not what happened, please believe me", but it doesn't. It's a case of your word vs someone else's, and unfortunately for you the other person is more credible. You have nobody to blame but yourself.[/quote]
My initial arguments are solely based on the stuff found in this thread, and a quick search on Superfriends history. That was the stuff you quoted. Reading comprehension is your friend.

As for the "your words" argument, it goes both ways. That's why I included both sides and the general information in my post, the listed stuff there aren't supposed to make an argument. The fact that you think they do is because they point against your opinion.

[quote]And don't bring the whole "your side, our side" issue into this, I have no side.[/quote]
You clearly do.

[quote]I criticize everyone equally, even when it's my former allies. If you feel that you're getting criticized too much, then there's a reason for that too.
[/quote]
It just happens to be that the critism comes from politics, not from scientific inquiry to understand the events.

You're everything but objective, especially when you say you just aren't listening to the arguments of the other side.

[Wu Tang Clan]

[quote name='Mesteut' timestamp='1299860769' post='2659971']
Lost credibility? Not much has actually changed, if you actually look around. Our friends still friends, our enemies still enemies. Realpolitik seems to dictate what people believe in general nowadays.
[/quote]

Like The Brain, and RoK. Amirite?

I love this new CSN that is so smug that they won't admit they made mistake upon mistake, and are in fact, a joke of an alliance. It makes CN much more fun for me.

Good luck to RoK. I wish I could say the same for SF, but I actually wish the opposite. (Except for RIA, I still love you guys).

[Mesteut]

[quote name='Wu Tang Clan' timestamp='1299863164' post='2660001']
Like The Brain, and RoK. Amirite?
[/quote]
The Brain is a little different.

Think about it this way - according to your beliefs, we (as a shadow corporation lead by Xiphosis) are going out of our way to cancel alliances and piss off people. Why would we do so?

[eyriq]

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1299862621' post='2659991']
So much the more that RoK should ditch Superfriends for following GOD to VE's side and rushing into the war minutes before RoK could post their DoW--[i]in full knowledge [/i]that RoK had decided to honor the treaty VE forced them to honor by attacking Polaris--to avoid assisting RoK in order to support VE, an outside alliance which has been rejected from SF on more than one occasion.
[/quote]

Interesting, I always did think that VE was a more logical fit in SF than PB. Was ROK primary in keeping VE out by chance? No aqua in SF is quite facinating...

[Joe Stupid]

[quote name='eyriq' timestamp='1299864019' post='2660010']
Interesting, I always did think that VE was a more logical fit in SF than PB. Was ROK primary in keeping VE out by chance? No aqua in SF is quite facinating...
[/quote]

No, we had an MDP with them as well as Bastion.

[Lord Brendan]

Obviously it was R&R keeping them out, to avoid the inevitable conflict over the title of Green Lantern.

[Il Impero Romano]

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1299862621' post='2659991']
So much the more that RoK should ditch Superfriends for following GOD to VE's side and rushing into the war minutes before RoK could post their DoW--[i]in full knowledge [/i]that RoK had decided to honor the treaty VE forced them to honor by attacking Polaris--to avoid assisting RoK in order to support VE, an outside alliance which has been rejected from SF on more than one occasion.
[/quote]

One occasion, about [i]3 years[/i] ago. The second occasion, we declined invitation for another sponsorship as we felt it was no longer a proper fit for us, despite our great respect for the signatories at the time.

[quote name='eyriq' timestamp='1299864019' post='2660010']
Interesting, I always did think that VE was a more logical fit in SF than PB. Was ROK primary in keeping VE out by chance? No aqua in SF is quite facinating...
[/quote]

No, we have enjoyed a very close and firm relationship with Ragnarok for years. There was no sign of wavering until mid January.

[quote name='Joe Stupid' timestamp='1299864556' post='2660018']
No, we had an MDP with them as well as Bastion.
[/quote]

*MDoAP

Edited March 11, 2011 by Il Impero Romano

[zzzptm]

[quote name='Mesteut' timestamp='1299863749' post='2660007']
The Brain is a little different.

Think about it this way - according to your beliefs, we (as a shadow corporation lead by Xiphosis) are going out of our way to cancel alliances and piss off people. Why would we do so?
[/quote]
To provide script fodder for a situation comedy based on the crazy antics of a clueless foreign policy team?

Or are you going for one of those train-wreck reality shows, "Keeping Up with the Real Diplomats of CSN's Shore"?

[HeroofTime55]

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1299862621' post='2659991']
VE, an outside alliance which has been rejected from SF on more than one occasion.
[/quote]
Ah, I wasn't aware, but it certainly helps explain why so many VE members are in here acting as if they somehow are a part of SF.

[Wu Tang Clan]

[quote name='Mesteut' timestamp='1299863749' post='2660007']
The Brain is a little different.

Think about it this way - according to your beliefs, we (as a shadow corporation lead by Xiphosis) are going out of our way to cancel alliances and piss off people. Why would we do so?
[/quote]

I fail to see how The Brain is different at all.

Foolish pride, coupled with utter incompetence.

[Il Impero Romano]

[quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1299865476' post='2660034']
Ah, I wasn't aware, but it certainly helps explain why so many VE members are in here acting as if they somehow are a part of SF.
[/quote]

And you still aren't. Read up.

The reason you see VE members commenting here is because of the longstanding mutual relationships we have had with Rok and other signatories of SF. Through multiple wars, the scenery has been consistent. When that changes, it can be jarring to those who are close.

[HeroofTime55]

[quote name='Il Impero Romano' timestamp='1299866153' post='2660040']
And you still aren't. Read up.

The reason you see VE members commenting here is because of the longstanding mutual relationships we have had with Rok and other signatories of SF. Through multiple wars, the scenery has been consistent. When that changes, it can be jarring to those who are close.
[/quote]But you didn't join them when invited, despite your alleged 'close relationships.' Why?

Wait, don't answer, because I know. You joined PB instead, valuing political advancement over friends, and hoping that you could become the most influential alliance in the game besides NPO. Except MK is basically running PB from the sidelines now. That must not feel too good.

But yes, I admit it's not terribly surprising that members of PB would show up to express their dissatisfaction that RoK wasn't willing to fall in line and drop treaties on command.

[Il Impero Romano]

[quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1299866575' post='2660047']
But you didn't join them when invited, despite your alleged 'close relationships.' Why?

Wait, don't answer, because I know. You joined PB instead, valuing political advancement over friends, and hoping that you could become the most influential alliance in the game besides NPO.
[/quote]

Not at all. Our reasons were, and are, private though.

[quote]Except MK is basically running PB from the sidelines now.[/quote]

[i]Wake up.[/i]

[Reptyler]

[quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1299865476' post='2660034']
Ah, I wasn't aware, but it certainly helps explain why so many VE members are in here acting as if they somehow are a part of SF.
[/quote]
See also: Viridian RIAcon (RIA MDoAP), Rok MDoAP, Balkan Entente, Maroon Entente, Below.

For those interested, VE's 3 oldest treaties that are still on the books are with GOD, NV, and Rok. We've had a vested interest in them for some time.

Edited March 11, 2011 by Reptyler

[neneko]

[quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1299865476' post='2660034']
Ah, I wasn't aware, but it certainly helps explain why so many VE members are in here acting as if they somehow are a part of SF.
[/quote]
Since VE have to justify their presence here I can't help but wonder, what's your stake in this? Why are you here pretending to care?

[Haven for Peace]

[quote name='neneko' timestamp='1299867206' post='2660055']
Why are you here pretending to care?
[/quote]
Obviously, I am not a member of VE, but I am curious, how exactly do you know when people "pretend" to care?

Right. You do not, so do not accuse.

[HeroofTime55]

[quote name='Il Impero Romano' timestamp='1299866945' post='2660051']
[i]Wake up.[/i]
[/quote]
Doomhouse controls PB, and MK controls Doomhouse. I think it's rather obvious, even if you don't want to admit it. They are the ones running the show.

I mean, you can keep pretending that your bloc is different from every other bloc in history and that the five of you are all 'equals,' but every bloc does that and it's never the case.

VE tried to be the top dog, you tried hard, but at the end of the day, Doomhouse beat you to it.

[Arcturus Jefferson]

[quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1299866575' post='2660047']
But you didn't join them when invited, despite your alleged 'close relationships.' Why?
[/quote]
Didn't want to take another Q&A beating.

[Il Impero Romano]

[quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1299867610' post='2660057']
Doomhouse controls PB, and MK controls Doomhouse. I think it's rather obvious, even if you don't want to admit it. They are the ones running the show.

I mean, you can keep pretending that your bloc is different from every other bloc in history and that the five of you are all 'equals,' but every bloc does that and it's never the case.

VE tried to be the top dog, you tried hard, but at the end of the day, Doomhouse beat you to it.
[/quote]

If you really believe any of that, you're an idiot.

[quote name='Arcturus Jefferson' timestamp='1299867612' post='2660058']
Didn't want to take another Q&A beating.
[/quote]

I don't think smooth could have emotionally handled it :x

Edited March 11, 2011 by Il Impero Romano

[Doitzel]

[quote name='Mesteut' timestamp='1299862647' post='2659992']
I was in CSN before we joined Superfriends.
[/quote]
Ah, it's willful ignorance then. That's [i]much[/i] better.