RoK is no longer SuperFriendly

[Dochartaigh]

[quote name='Delta1212' timestamp='1300391392' post='2668036']
Considering the thread you are posting in, this is a rather ironic statement to say the least. Regardless of the circumstances that lead up to the decision, and whether or not you feel justified in that decision as a result, that is in fact what you did. Unless of course, you stopped considering us friends.
[/quote]

even hinting at forcing an alliance to give up other friends is not exactly friendly.... just saying.

[Delta1212]

[quote name='Dochartaigh' timestamp='1300400062' post='2668279']
even hinting at forcing an alliance to give up other friends is not exactly friendly.... just saying.
[/quote]
Then it's a good thing I didn't do that. As for anyone else, well, Rok gave as good as they got in that regard.

[Dochartaigh]

[quote name='Delta1212' timestamp='1300405927' post='2668459']
Then it's a good thing I didn't do that. As for anyone else, well, Rok gave as good as they got in that regard.
[/quote]

never said you did and never said RoK didn't. i am just stating that there were others in SF not acting that friendly to RoK just as much as the opposite.

[Mixoux]

[quote name='Dochartaigh' timestamp='1300414551' post='2668610']
never said you did and never said RoK didn't. i am just stating that there were others in SF not acting that friendly to RoK just as much as the opposite.
[/quote]

I'm wondering how you would even know this to begin with.

[Dochartaigh]

[quote name='Mixoux' timestamp='1300414707' post='2668616']
I'm wondering how you would even know this to begin with.
[/quote]

reading this thread. it has been said over and over by both sides. that is how i would know this. just read Kaitlin's post.

Edited March 18, 2011 by Dochartaigh

[foxfire99]

[quote name='KaitlinK' timestamp='1300384906' post='2667880']
See you should probably bring dumb ass statements like this to me as opposed to Hoo. Ragnarok was not going to choose one frind over another and no matter how hard you you hold tight to that foolish belief it still wont be true.
I have a deep love for the alliances that make up SF but we are not going to tolerate ultimatums. I was pressed for an answer right this second regardless of the fact that we had repeatedly stated that we are not making any FA decisions right now. We were told that we HAD to choose one or the other and we refused to make that choice. We did not choose Polar over SF, we instead chose to leave a bloc that contained an alliance that cannot handle being told no.
[/quote]

Actually, I think one of the morals of this war is that, if you want the authority on Rok foreign policy, you should go to Hoo. I understand he overrules the sitting Emperor.

[Alfred von Tirpitz]

[quote name='foxfire99' timestamp='1300430401' post='2668851']
Actually, I think one of the morals of this war is that, if you want the authority on Rok foreign policy, you should go to Hoo. I understand he overrules the sitting Emperor.
[/quote]
You, are wrong. He posts his opinion and recollections from the time he did lead Ragnarok. You know how it works, don't throw all reason out just to take a potshot at a former ally. Does not jibe well with what I think of and know of Viridia.

Edited March 18, 2011 by Alfred von Tirpitz

[NoFish]

[quote name='foxfire99' timestamp='1300430401' post='2668851']
Actually, I think one of the morals of this war is that, if you want the authority on Rok foreign policy, you should go to Hoo. I understand he overrules the sitting Emperor.
[/quote]
That may have been true of Taut, but Kait, for all her faults, is very strong willed. No one and I mean [i]no one[/i] is going to overrule her if she has her mind set on something.

[King Wally]

[quote name='NoFish' timestamp='1300435940' post='2668919']
That may have been true of Taut, but Kait, for all her faults, is very strong willed. No one and I mean [i]no one[/i] is going to overrule her if she has her mind set on something.
[/quote]

One of Kaits best qualaties I always thought, her personality probably just was never going to blend well with Xiphs to be honest. It's really more human dynamic's then anything.

Oh well such is the way of a changing dynasty and I look forward to seeing the new roads we take under Kait's leadership.

[Alfred von Tirpitz]

[quote name='King Wally' timestamp='1300444784' post='2668967']
One of Kaits best qualaties I always thought, her personality probably just was never going to blend well with Xiphs to be honest. It's really more human dynamic's then anything.
[/quote]

Heh, they are more alike that you would think. But.. that does not really counter your point.

[King Wally]

[quote name='Alfred von Tirpitz' timestamp='1300447382' post='2668975']
Heh, they are more alike that you would think. But.. that does not really counter your point.
[/quote]

Truth is Alf that I beleive they clash [i]because[/i] they are alike. One of those funny things in life really isn't it.

[Van Hoo III]

[quote name='foxfire99' timestamp='1300430401' post='2668851']
Actually, I think one of the morals of this war is that, if you want the authority on Rok foreign policy, you should go to Hoo. I understand he overrules the sitting Emperor.
[/quote]


lol

From what I have heard about who RoK is considering as future allies, I can safely say that I have absolutely [b]nothing[/b] to do with RoK's FA.

Also: Leaving SF was their decision. Not mine.

Edited March 18, 2011 by Van Hoo III

[Xiphosis]

[quote]One of Kaits best qualaties I always thought, her personality probably just was never going to blend well with Xiphs to be honest[/quote]

I was one of her first allies on the game and one of her longest. Your ignorance of history is showing again, Wally.

[quote]From what I have heard about who RoK is considering as future allies, I can safely say that I have absolutely nothing to do with RoK's FA.

Also: Leaving SF was their decision. Not mine. [/quote]

I don't doubt it for a minute, mate.

[hizzy]

[quote name='Van Hoo III' timestamp='1300461167' post='2669095']
lol

From what I have heard about who RoK is considering as future allies, I can safely say that I have absolutely [b]nothing[/b] to do with RoK's FA.

Also: Leaving SF was their decision. Not mine.
[/quote]

well clearly they're better off without you, then

[Van Hoo III]

[quote name='hizzy' timestamp='1300473453' post='2669205']
well clearly they're better off without you, then
[/quote]


Oh I don't know if I disagree with their departure or not. I have seen the conversation that led to this and I can see why they left, but I am not privy to all of the conversations that took place prior to that night. I was, however, told the day of that they intended to stay and try to work things out.

Contrary to popular belief, I don't have access to RoK gov forums these days. I'm only concerned with the FA path of The Bear Cavalry, man!

Edited March 18, 2011 by Van Hoo III

[Bob Ilyani]

[quote name='Van Hoo III' timestamp='1300476917' post='2669252']
Oh I don't know if I disagree with their departure or not. I have seen the conversation that led to this and I can see why they left, but I am not privy to all of the conversations that took place prior to that night. I was, however, told the day of that they intended to stay and try to work things out.

Contrary to popular belief, I don't have access to RoK gov forums these days. I'm only concerned with the FA path of The Bear Cavalry, man!
[/quote]

You aren't even registered on the new forums [img]http://forums.cybernations.net/public/style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif[/img]

[Sweeeeet Ronny D]

[quote name='Bob Ilyani' timestamp='1300477995' post='2669276']
You aren't even registered on the new forums [img]http://forums.cybernations.net/public/style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif[/img]
[/quote]


Yeah neither am I, where is the love guys?!?! I can now only get my Rok fix on OWF, the home of petty biased angry people. That's just not how I like to roll.

[EViL0nE]

[quote name='KaitlinK' timestamp='1300384906' post='2667880']
See you should probably bring dumb ass statements like this to me as opposed to Hoo. Ragnarok was not going to choose one frind over another and no matter how hard you you hold tight to that foolish belief it still wont be true.
[/quote]
Did you even read what I wrote or what I was replying to? Were you in charge of RoK when the Polar treaty was dropped after bi-polar? Were you in charge of RoK when a new one was signed prior to this war? The forums tell me the answer to both those questions. Perhaps you should calm down and read before you start labeling statements as 'dumb ass'.

[quote name='KaitlinK' timestamp='1300384906' post='2667880']
I have a deep love for the alliances that make up SF but we are not going to tolerate ultimatums. I was pressed for an answer right this second regardless of the fact that we had repeatedly stated that we are not making any FA decisions right now. We were told that we HAD to choose one or the other and we refused to make that choice. We did not choose Polar over SF, we instead chose to leave a bloc that contained an alliance that cannot handle being told no.
[/quote]
I've seen logs of the night RoK left SF. I know the conversation that took place. Like I said, at this point, that's all irrelevant. RoK made their desired path quite clear and it didn't include SF, there's no need to argue over it.

[Van Hoo III]

[quote name='EViL0nE' timestamp='1300483810' post='2669378']
Did you even read what I wrote or what I was replying to? Were you in charge of RoK when the Polar treaty was dropped after bi-polar? Were you in charge of RoK when a new one was signed prior to this war? The forums tell me the answer to both those questions. Perhaps you should calm down and read before you start labeling statements as 'dumb ass'.[/quote]

Wait, wait, [b]wait[/b]. Are you saying that [b]I[/b] chose Polar over SF?

For starters, the treaty was dropped during Bi-Polar and not after. They chose to hit a SuperFriend when they didn't have to. That isn't acceptable and they were therefore dropped without hesitation.

Despite their actions, we did remain friends and eventually a treaty was discussed. We went to VE, \m/, and GOD before making a decision and not only were all three fine with it, some of those alliances actually encouraged it. The new Polar leadership was one we trusted and the treaty signing was considered "strategically sound".

You are free to your opinions in regard to recent history, but don't sit here and complain about a treaty that [b]no one[/b] had a problem with when it was signed. There was no resistance. Zero. We gave veto power to our allies over this treaty and no one felt strongly enough against it to do so.

Care to explain how we "have a history" of choosing Polar over SF now? Do you have an real examples?

I eagerly await your response.

[TypoNinja]

[quote name='Van Hoo III' timestamp='1300484780' post='2669396']
Care to explain how we "have a history" of choosing Polar over SF now? Do you have an real examples?

I eagerly await your response.
[/quote]

As I've pointed out before, Polar's war history speaks for it self. They've been taking shots at SF alliances since before SF was founded. You've always valued Polar over anything else, it just wasn't this painfully obvious until now. Polar has never once sided with Rok/SF in a war*, but has frequently been shooting at them.

Still the insanity of your choices aside, they are your choices to make, just don't be surprised when others call you on it. You've made your choices, at least have the stones to man up and admit that's what happened. No matter what else I can always respect someone with the will to make their own decisions, to many people let their decisions get made for them.

*Before anyone brings up Karma, If you will recall Polar made a very big production of establishing that they were not siding with one side or the other.

Edited March 18, 2011 by TypoNinja

[Monster]

Polar did wage a PR war against Karma, not really sure why people didn't seem to remember that after.

[Van Hoo III]

[quote name='TypoNinja' timestamp='1300491146' post='2669546']
As I've pointed out before, Polar's war history speaks for it self. They've been taking shots at SF alliances since before SF was founded. You've always valued Polar over anything else, it just wasn't this painfully obvious until now. Polar has never once sided with Rok/SF in a war*, but has frequently been shooting at them.

Still the insanity of your choices aside, they are your choices to make, just don't be surprised when others call you on it. You've made your choices, at least have the stones to man up and admit that's what happened. No matter what else I can always respect someone with the will to make their own decisions, to many people let their decisions get made for them.

*Before anyone brings up Karma, If you will recall Polar made a very big production of establishing that they were not siding with one side or the other.
[/quote]


This is the stupidest thing that you have ever typed. I have no idea if RoK actually chose Polar over SF this time around, but it is complete BS to state that they always have or that they did so on my watch. Nothing that you have said or pointed out supports your opinion. I led the damn alliance during the instances that you are citing and I am telling you, without a shadow of a doubt, that RoK never held the Polar treaty over SF. I'm afraid that you simply are not qualified to say otherwise. We canceled on Polar and the reason they were given was [b]that they attacked a SuperFriend[/b]. Furthermore, the bloc (as well as VE) were consulted before re-signing and could have [b]blocked the treaty before it was signed[/b]. Those two facts alone emphatically destroy your entire argument.

Respond when you can actually refute the statements in bold. Otherwise you're spouting crap and I am shocked that you of all people would do so.

[Ryan Greenberg]

[quote name='Antoine Roquentin' timestamp='1300491728' post='2669561']
Polar did wage a PR war against Karma, not really sure why people didn't seem to remember that after.
[/quote]
Perhaps we had good reason during Karma's latter stages? It really depends on the alliance on what their opinion was on it. Not that it matters anymore.

Edited March 18, 2011 by Ryan Greenberg

[Tautology]

[quote name='Van Hoo III' timestamp='1300491775' post='2669563']
I have no idea if RoK actually chose Polar over SF this time around...[/quote]
RoK didn't choose Polar over SF in this war. VE decided to declare war on NpO. Under the circumstances, RoK had to defend NpO. If the roles had been reversed and NpO had used a similar CB to declare on VE, we would have defended VE.

[TypoNinja]

[quote name='Van Hoo III' timestamp='1300491775' post='2669563']
This is the stupidest thing that you have ever typed. I have no idea if RoK actually chose Polar over SF this time around, but it is complete BS to state that they always have or that they did so on my watch. Nothing that you have said or pointed out supports your opinion. I led the damn alliance during the instances that you are citing and I am telling you, without a shadow of a doubt, that RoK never held the Polar treaty over SF. I'm afraid that you simply are not qualified to say otherwise. We canceled on Polar and the reason they were given was [b]that they attacked a SuperFriend[/b]. Furthermore, the bloc (as well as VE) were consulted before re-signing and could have [b]blocked the treaty before it was signed[/b]. Those two facts alone emphatically destroy your entire argument.

Respond when you can actually refute the statements in bold. Otherwise you're spouting crap and I am shocked that you of all people would do so.
[/quote]

This is possibly the stupidest thing you've ever typed. You have no idea if they chose polar over SF? Well lets see, what side of the war did they enter? They decided to support Polar spying while siding against their own bloc in a war and then left the bloc before the war was over. Gee I wonder which they valued more.

I think I was out of gov at by the time you resigned, but If I wasn't, feel free to take this as my official position.

Rok is/was !@#$@#$ retarded. You have/had your collective heads so far up Polar's ass if you spit it comes out their mouth. If you'd ever asked me about my opinion on you resigning after BiPolar I'd have questioned your sanity.

The two bits you bolded don't address my arguments at all, in fact one of them makes mine for me. They attacked a SuperFriend. More than once in their history, GOD and BiPolar were no means isolated incidents.

So once again I say; While Polar has a long history of shooting AT SuperFriends they've never once sided with SuperFriends on the field of battle. This is rather telling of how they view the relationship in my opinion no matter what sweet words their diplomats whisper in your ear.

Edited March 19, 2011 by TypoNinja