A Statement from the Mushroom Kingdom

[Hadrian]

[quote name='Priest Kahn' timestamp='1289305624' post='2507918']
So wait. Basically we're looking for a CB because you KNOW we're looking for a CB and anything we say to the contrary is just a lie? We wouldn't have accepted less because you KNOW we wouldn't have accepted less and anything we say to the contrary is a lie? I'd tell you to quit spying, but if you actually had spies you'd see how ridiculous what you're saying is.
[/quote]

You still can't tell me why MK is so keen on battering NSO.

And I really don't need spies, the situation is quite clear for all with brains to see.

[Karolina]

I guess it evades MK that the PR assault against them began [i]because[/i] of the still incredibly ridiculous sum of reparations that were demanded (and that conversation was anything but a negotiation, so that excuse isn't fooling anyone).

[Fernando12]

All but one aid pack was canceled. It is all MK deserves in return.

Many have voiced in favor of NSO. I expect all of us to fight if able along side NSO Armies.

I expect those that fought for the principles of Karma to fight for them once again or at least stay out and not support the Kingdom's wrongful aggression.

There is a peace to be found on the other side of this potential war. I will fight for that peace.

[King Louis the II]

[quote name='Geoffron X' timestamp='1289283509' post='2507422']
"Even we know that the sum is too high, but if you don't pay it, we'll attack."
[/quote]

Not really. The right interpretation is :

"even we recognize that the sum was too high, it was a mistake. however that sum could have been decreased, if NSO wanted to negotiate, and not use it for a PR war. because of that the sum stands"

[Jimbei]

MK got robbed of 3m and received 3M and yet they continue to throw a fit. Really, being sanctioned and six times stronger than NSO, you'd think MK would get over 3m. apparently not.

Edited November 9, 2010 by Jimbei

[Kowalski]

[quote name='Fernando12' timestamp='1289306418' post='2507922']
All but one aid pack was canceled. It is all MK deserves in return.

Many have voiced in favor of NSO. I expect all of us to fight if able along side NSO Armies.

I expect those that fought for the principles of Karma to fight for them once again or at least stay out and not support the Kingdom's wrongful aggression.

There is a peace to be found on the other side of this potential war. I will fight for that peace.
[/quote]
[url="http://www.cybernations.net/search_aid.asp?search=29691&Extended=1"]http://www.cybernations.net/search_aid.asp?search=29691&Extended=1[/url]

NSO paid up, wind your neck in.

[Fernando12]

[quote name='Kowalski' timestamp='1289306705' post='2507925']
[url="http://www.cybernations.net/search_aid.asp?search=29691&Extended=1"]http://www.cybernations.net/search_aid.asp?search=29691&Extended=1[/url]

NSO paid up, wind your neck in.
[/quote]
Ooc I see that now. Just woke up and reading this bs Archon put up. /ooc

Archon can never retire or take a break as lebubu and co. will continue to $%&@ up.

[Bob Ilyani]

This can only end well. Onwards.

[Ardus]

[quote name='nutkase' timestamp='1289291860' post='2507768']
Am I to expect MK will pay decent reps to Heft for a MK member spying on him and getting caught in the act?
[/quote]
Yes. That is a reasonable expectation.

[Johnny Apocalypse]

So let me get this straight.

MK and NSO start talking in back channels about reparations for this trade circle debacle and MK proposes an amount which is ~outrageous~ NSO agree to said amount and RV proceeds to post on the OWF about how horrible it was of MK to request such a sum even though he made no attempt to reduce the amount requested diplomatically, which is what you do isn't it? you start with an amount which you don't expect to get and the other party negotiates a lower amount(unless of course you're NSO) MK then proceeds to post a public deadline for NSO to pay the amount they agreed to in the first place because apparently if it's not public it's "Backroom Extortion"

All I'm seeing here is a trend of NSO acting like incompetent morons who have no idea about the concept of diplomacy. If you didn't like the initial fee, you try and get it reduced. What is so hard about that?

Even if MK proposed that NSO pay 3 million there'd still be outrage and it'd be even more likely that NSO would outright refuse to pay it.

You people are never happy, you claim you are bored and then someone finally stirs things up a bit and you don't like it. The entire forum turns into one big shouting competition where nobody listens to reason or tries to start an intelligent discussion about the issue. It's effectively a big "BAWWWW MK HEGEMONY 2.0" backslapping circle jerk.

Edited November 9, 2010 by Johnny Apocalypse

[mrcalkin]

OK if NSO's only options were to accept the 15m/250t or get rolled as some seem to be alleging left and right, how was taking it public ever an option? Wouldn't this hypothetical MK that would have rolled NSO had they negotiated also roll them for taking it public? I guess I don't understand why anyone would agree to something they consider abhorrent enough to post a gigantic thread about it "to expose the truth" if they were so afraid of getting rolled for simply trying to negotiate 15m/250t down in the first place (which hell, even my 6k ns nation could send out solo right now). I definitely don't get the point of lying about the guy's member status if he actually had a mask and the alliance aa. Maybe the last five alliances I have been in are weird, but we never had masked ghosts and I would consider such an in-between state existing to be unacceptable for most alliances. We might have a couple crappier members that don't take part as well as the rest, but they are still very much Umbrellans.

[Rebel Virginia]

[quote name='kriekfreak' timestamp='1289299346' post='2507860']
This is a lot of flack. Definitely not warranted in this quantity. In my opinion MK asked for too much, however, NSO didn't even try to negotiate and most likely accepted it for the sole reason of using it as a PR tool. When NSO saw there was more than moderate support for their cause they tried to wiggle out their agreement with MK. The response of MK is then more than warranted and I fully support Archon and MK in this matter.
[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]You've got that mistaken. I accepted the deal under the impression that if we did not pay we would most likely be attacked. I still believe I am right in that assumption. No alliance ever demands reparations and is then hunky dory if they aren't going to be paid. So I figured we were paying, but I felt that such backroom strong arming, reminiscent of rubbish that many of us fought against in the past, deserved, no needed, to be brought to the public attention. It is a side of MK that the world had to see, as much as MK would like that side to have remained hidden in the backrooms.

As for this being a PR campaign, it is a ridiculous ascertainment. I've attached no spin to anything, and presented full and unedited logs. If that is enough to make MK look bad, MK should be looking inward and not pointing fingers at others for its problems.

As for Heft, I'll be getting in touch with one of you fine gentlemen later today.[/color]

[Johnny Apocalypse]

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1289310059' post='2507945']
[color="#0000FF"]You've got that mistaken. I accepted the deal under the impression that if we did not pay we would most likely be attacked. I still believe I am right in that assumption. No alliance ever demands reparations and is then hunky dory if they aren't going to be paid. So I figured we were paying, but I felt that such backroom strong arming, reminiscent of rubbish that many of us fought against in the past, deserved, no needed, to be brought to the public attention. It is a side of MK that the world had to see, as much as MK would like that side to have remained hidden in the backrooms.

As for this being a PR campaign, it is a ridiculous ascertainment. I've attached no spin to anything, and presented full and unedited logs. If that is enough to make MK look bad, MK should be looking inward and not pointing fingers at others for its problems.

As for Heft, I'll be getting in touch with one of you fine gentlemen later today.[/color]
[/quote]

Did you try and negotiate a lower amount?

[Voytek]

RV none of that adds up sorry man

a) you didn't try to talk us down at all, in fact I think the point at which you decided you'd bring this here can be pinpointed at roughly halfway through where you started to make Epiphanus and Yev go through everything in exact detail (playing to the camera as it were)
b) if you really thought we'd attack if you didn't pay up you wouldn't have brought it here after agreeing - if we were really that twitchy we would be rolling tanks right now (in which case you would have been free to go public anyway)

[Stormsend]

[quote name='Johnny Apocalypse' timestamp='1289310192' post='2507947']
Did you try and negotiate a lower amount?
[/quote]
Think about it from his side for a second.

You are in NSO, MK has made it no secret that they hate you and they are demanding money, which you only assume is backed by threat of a war you have no chance to win. As a member of the government, you have a responsibility to do what you can for your members. So, you pay up just to make the problem go away.

It's not that crazy a notion.

[Rebel Virginia]

[quote name='Johnny Apocalypse' timestamp='1289310192' post='2507947']
Did you try and negotiate a lower amount?
[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]I think we had this conversation in the other thread, and I informed you that there was no chance of that happening. If anything said by myself that was not an answer MK wanted to hear was either dismissed as "irrelevant" or "lies" how do you think I'd have any shot at a fair negotiation. In fact, having to negotiate over a lost trade in the first place is completely ridiculous. We would have paid for the lost harbor money, the three million for that, but your inability and laziness to look for a temporary trade should not have ever fallen on us.[/color]

[Ivan Moldavi]

I blame Doppelganger.

And Mussolandia.

[Stormsend]

[quote name='Ivan Moldavi' timestamp='1289310717' post='2507952']
I blame Doppelganger.

And Mussolandia.
[/quote]
You are the authority on the subject, therefore I take your word on it.

[ArneS]

Although I think the reps initially asked by MK were too high and could have been handled better, the way NSO handled this afterwards warrants MK's response. NSO accepted to pay the reps, and didn't even try to negotiate them down, apparently just to use it as a PR tool against MK, and even canceled the offered reps (which they had agreed to pay!) when they thought they had enough support to do that, instead of just trying to solve in a way any other alliance would have done.

[Ivan Moldavi]

[quote name='ArneS' timestamp='1289310815' post='2507955']
Although I think the reps initially asked by MK were too high and could have been handled better, the way NSO handled this afterwards warrants MK's response. NSO accepted to pay the reps, and didn't even try to negotiate them down, apparently just to use it as a PR tool against MK, and even canceled the offered reps (which they had agreed to pay!) when they thought they had enough support to do that, instead of just trying to solve in a way any other alliance would have done.
[/quote]
You are correct. NSO did agree to pay the amount demanded of them.

I do not believe the actions of NSO however dictate MK's response, unless you are suggesting that the NSO has indirect (or direct) control over the kingdom's leadership?

[CRexx]

So....

Your team goes to the NSO with a deal you freely admit is unfair. Talks don't go very well and the NSO end up having the deal shoved down it's throat. Talks leave the NSO feeling MK was perhaps somewhat threatening. You guys are known for liking war, being good at war and being politically well connected so it makes sense they'd worry about your military capabilities.

Thus NSO goes to the only weapon they have, popular opinion and gives you a bit of a black eye. Your reaction is to admit that yes your team made a mistake, but still demand punitive reps because the NSO dared to say mean things about you on the forum. This is awesome, we've moved from overpriced reps demands based on trade circle mistakes to speech restrictions. I guess thought crime is next.

[Voytek]

[quote name='Stormsend' timestamp='1289310694' post='2507949']
Think about it from his side for a second.

You are in NSO, MK has made it no secret that they hate you and they are demanding money, which you only assume is backed by threat of a war you have no chance to win. As a member of the government, you have a responsibility to do what you can for your members. So, you pay up just to make the problem go away.

It's not that crazy a notion.
[/quote]
Except you clearly can't be that interested in making the problem go away if the very next thing you do is run off to the OWF and take it public. RV is almost as transparent in his ~subtle manoeuvres~ as Ivan.

[Rebel Virginia]

[quote name='ArneS' timestamp='1289310815' post='2507955']
Although I think the reps initially asked by MK were too high and could have been handled better, the way NSO handled this afterwards warrants MK's response. NSO accepted to pay the reps, and didn't even try to negotiate them down, apparently just to use it as a PR tool against MK, and even canceled the offered reps (which they had agreed to pay!) when they thought they had enough support to do that, instead of just trying to solve in a way any other alliance would have done.
[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]Do you fellows have a a standard line posted somewhere that all of your geniuses can look up to post or are you all just entirely incapable of reading? Because I am pretty sure this has been addressed more than a few times at this point.[/color]

[kevin32891]

[quote name='ArneS' timestamp='1289310815' post='2507955']
Although I think the reps initially asked by MK were too high and could have been handled better, the way NSO handled this afterwards warrants MK's response. NSO accepted to pay the reps, and didn't even try to negotiate them down, apparently just to use it as a PR tool against MK, and even canceled the offered reps (which they had agreed to pay!) when they thought they had enough support to do that, instead of just trying to solve in a way any other alliance would have done.
[/quote]

Not really, me and Ashok negotiated with them first before RV got on. We told them he wasn't a member several times and that we would not pay for his damages. We offered that we would attack the nation or that MK would send their nations to attack him. Ashok took it upon himself to declare on the guy. They didn't want to hear what we had to say, and demanded reps.

[Stormsend]

[quote name='Voytek' timestamp='1289311018' post='2507958']
Except you clearly can't be that interested in making the problem go away if the very next thing you do is run off to the OWF and take it public. RV is almost as transparent in his ~subtle manoeuvres~ as Ivan.
[/quote]
How many times did MK and its friends make public revelations on unfair treatment? Why is it suddenly so wrong to do it now?