A Statement from the Mushroom Kingdom

[Ivan Moldavi]

Can we get the NSO government types to stop commenting on how Archon came in and saved MK? All that happened was he popped up and you caved, plain and simple. Instead of just sticking to what was said in the other thread you decided that you didn't want to face the idea of MK possibly attacking and paid. For better or worse, that is what happened.

I personally don't think they would have attacked. I believe the bad press was already to the breaking point, which is why they had to bother with this to begin with, and I don't think a full scale assault would have been warranted or tolerated by the community, even against the NSO. And it would have cost MK precious influence, which is worth a lot more than NS when push comes to shove.

They bluffed and you bought it, hook, line and sinker.

[Archon]

[quote name='Earth Shaker' timestamp='1289287963' post='2507660']
Go to hell Archon. I just wish NSO don't pay the extortion fee.
[/quote]

I can't imagine this is terribly constructive for the conversation by any stretch of the imagination.

That said, duly noted.

[delendum]

[quote name='Sal Paradise' timestamp='1289287879' post='2507655']
I didn't say you were evil. I said you have no integrity, honesty, intelligence and your responses are predictable. You have become a cliche. The sentiment expressed in your reply has been regurgitated over and over again for years. It's the same half-baked lazy cliche everyone without an inch of wit uses, and this thread is full of them from MK.

Like I said in the other thread, MK members used to make intelligent posts. Now you've become tired and used.
[/quote]

It's funny being called predictable by a man who keeps repeating himself.

[quote name='Earth Shaker' timestamp='1289287963' post='2507660']
Go to hell Archon. I just wish NSO don't pay the extortion fee.
[/quote]

Boy, you sure told him.

[quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1289288001' post='2507663']
We stood ready to assist in the fullest capacity, as little as we have to offer, but at the end of the day it is NSO's decision on where they want to go with it. I will respect their decision, even if I strongly disagree with it.
[/quote]

Somebody pat this man on the back already.

[pezstar]

[quote]View PostIvan Moldavi, on 09 November 2010 - 03:01 AM, said:
It is my understanding that Archon got on IRC and told Polar and STA to back down on their rhetoric so that he could inform the NSO that they would definitively be standing alone if they refused. At least that is what I have heard from various corners.[/quote]

[quote name='heggo' timestamp='1289286999' post='2507613']
This is correct to the best of my knowledge, though I don't think any gag orders were issued so much as Archon brand military support dissolving dust was sprinkled on a few particular folks.
[/quote]


This is not true. I had a long chat with Archon this evening. This didn't happen at all. Not even a little bit.


Edit: You know what? I'm pretty pissed off that you would even suggest this. I literally spent most of the entire day trying to help NSO in this. I burnt a few bridges doing so. (For example, I can't imagine that Lebubu likes me much anymore) And this? Seriously? Screw you guys.

Edited November 9, 2010 by pezstar

[Archon]

[quote name='Ivan Moldavi' timestamp='1289288142' post='2507669']
Can we get the NSO government types to stop commenting on how Archon came in and saved MK? All that happened was he popped up and you caved, plain and simple. Instead of just sticking to what was said in the other thread you decided that you didn't want to face the idea of MK possibly attacking and paid. For better or worse, that is what happened.

I personally don't think they would have attacked. I believe the bad press was already to the breaking point, which is why they had to bother with this to begin with, and I don't think a full scale assault would have been warranted or tolerated by the community, even against the NSO. And it would have cost MK precious influence, which is worth a lot more than NS when push comes to shove.

They bluffed and you bought it, hook, line and sinker.
[/quote]

This assessment is far more accurate than your previous.

[Lord GVChamp]

[quote name='Sal Paradise' timestamp='1289286744' post='2507596']
I didn't mention the NPO in anyway. You made the same mistake delendum did by falling back on the standard kneejerk response MK and their allies have made when confronted with criticism. It has worked in the past because the less intelligent of the ex-hegemony crowd can only think of comparing MK (with unintentional irony) to the hegemony, but it won't work on me. I am not a hack like nearly everyone else around here. I don't defend one side right or wrong. I defend what is right, always.

My criticism of Archon in this instance is not a comparison to Moo or anyone from the former Hegemony. It is a criticism of MK policies and MK leadership in their own right, which Archon has today proven lacks in integrity and is merely the typical way a thug reacts to criticism of his thuggery. There is no intellectual honesty or nuance to this position, despite Archon's attempts to affect otherwise. This announcement is little more than a cliche.
[/quote]
Okay, let me put it this way: you have derided Archon as having an unfair reputation of fairness. In the context of this thread, I don't see the evidence. I disagree with the actions taken, but the rationale has been explained and he is engaging posters in this thread in a level-headed and rational fashion. The MK posters, well, not all of them get that credit, but MK posters are not a negative against Archon.

[quote name='TheNeverender' timestamp='1289286870' post='2507606']
Respond accordingly means I would formulate a response much closer to the actual point that the decision would go into effect. Quite a bit can change in 48 hours - even if I made some form of a statement as to what that response would be now, there is no telling what factors could compel me to change my decision.

I'm not sure why this is a strange or foreign concept to anyone...it's common sense.
[/quote]
It's not common sense in the way you are putting it. If you make a strong threat against someone and you don't follow through, or follow through with weak repercussions, your threats in the future don't seem as menacing or compelling.

Voicing extreme displeasure in the OWF and giving an "or else" is pretty strong. Your range of possible responses in this case are pretty narrow if you don't want to damage the credibility of your future threats. LIke you said yourself, it's not unreasonable for others in this thread to assume war.

[Seerow]

You know, things like this didn't happen when bros was King.

[Ivan Moldavi]

[quote name='pezstar' timestamp='1289288211' post='2507673']
This is not true. I had a long chat with Archon this evening. This didn't happen at all. Not even a little bit.
[/quote]
It is simply what was stated to me as "justification" for the NSO deciding to bend over and take it the instant this was posted.

[Ivan Moldavi]

[quote name='TheNeverender' timestamp='1289288250' post='2507674']
This assessment is far more accurate than your previous.
[/quote]
I wasn't aware that I had made any other assessment.

[Sal Paradise]

[quote name='delendum' timestamp='1289288165' post='2507671']
NO U[/quote]

I rest my case.

[Seerow]

[quote name='Ivan Moldavi' timestamp='1289288363' post='2507680']
I wasn't aware that I had made any other assessment.
[/quote]

Think he was referring to 'your' in the context of your alliance, rather than you specifically.

[D34th]

This is for sure the most unprofitable 15 million and 250 tech that MK ever received.

Edit: Will MK ask reparations because I made this sig?

[img]http://img816.imageshack.us/img816/2667/mkbawww.png[/img]

Edited November 9, 2010 by D34th

[delendum]

[quote name='Sal Paradise' timestamp='1289288366' post='2507681']
I rest my case.
[/quote]

It was about time, it was looking pretty tired.

[WorldConqueror]

[quote name='delendum' timestamp='1289287110' post='2507622']
So you think we're unimpressive I take it
[/quote]
I think you have potential, I'm just not sure that you have been the source of enough tyranny and horror yet. I'd like to see a real contender for 'Most evil and tyrannical alliance ever', but let's face it, we got such a headstart on everyone else that you all have a lot of catching up to do. :|

[quote name='NorthernLights' timestamp='1289287617' post='2507642']
Sure let me get into MK gov real quick, brb WC.
[/quote]
Sounds good mang.

[Archon]

[quote name='Lord GVChamp' timestamp='1289288300' post='2507677']
It's not common sense in the way you are putting it. If you make a strong threat against someone and you don't follow through, or follow through with weak repercussions, your threats in the future don't seem as menacing or compelling.

Voicing extreme displeasure in the OWF and giving an "or else" is pretty strong. Your range of possible responses in this case are pretty narrow if you don't want to damage the credibility of your future threats. LIke you said yourself, it's not unreasonable for others in this thread to assume war.
[/quote]

Haha. You got me there, I'll admit. My set of options was fairly limited, hence why it's a reasonable deduction. I may be playing coy here, but in all fairness I do think there were still options on the table other than outright alliance war, and I was not yet ready to count them out.

Besides, I am perfectly comfortable eating crow when necessary.

[Seerow]

[quote name='D34th' timestamp='1289288427' post='2507683']
This is for sure the most unprofitable 15 million and 250 tech that MK ever received.
[/quote]

For sure, each of those people lost about 10 million in back collects.... 50mil lost to gain 15mil+250 tech, definitely not very profitable. It's kind of you to think about the real victims in this story, which everyone else seems to be ignoring in favor of the politics.

[Shodemofi-NPO]

Archon repeating what was said in the other thread doesn't make MK's extortion any more acceptable. Not to totally NPO-Godwin this thread, but this is the "they agreed to it" logic is the same thing that they used to force alliances to disband.

[delendum]

[quote name='D34th' timestamp='1289288427' post='2507683']
This is for sure the most unprofitable 15 million and 250 tech that MK ever received.
[/quote]

Does that mean that it was profitable 15 million and 250 tech for NSO? And if that's the case, why are people crying about it?

[Ivan Moldavi]

[quote name='Seerow' timestamp='1289288533' post='2507688']
For sure, each of those people lost about 10 million in back collects.... 50mil lost to gain 15mil+250 tech, definitely not very profitable. It's kind of you to think about the real victims in this story, which everyone else seems to be ignoring in favor of the politics.
[/quote]
Shouldn't your Minister of Trades have found a temporary placement for the circle? I believe someone found one within MK in about 30 seconds on the other thread.

I commented then that you guys should have kept that LUEnited Nations Minister of Trade. I hear he is a wiz at nation building.

[rsoxbronco1]

I'm not sure if it's worse:
RV planned dropping logs
or
Epiphanus and Yev not expecting RV to drop logs

And I saw at least 1 person try to argue that RV isn't in charge of NSO so the deal is invalid...if that's the case then he shouldn't have gone into #mushroom looking for gov or should have declared himself to be an emissary with no formal power when negotiations started. Regardless of the crappy diplomacy, a deal is a deal.

brb, raiding KoN do deflect attention from MK.

Edited November 9, 2010 by rsoxbronco1

[Biff Webster]

[quote name='Shodemofi' timestamp='1289288613' post='2507689']
Archon repeating what was said in the other thread doesn't make MK's extortion any more acceptable. Not to totally NPO-Godwin this thread, but this is the "they agreed to it" logic is the same thing that they used to force alliances to disband.
[/quote]

Maybe "As bad/Not as bad as MK" will now be in fashion.

[Sal Paradise]

[quote name='Lord GVChamp' timestamp='1289288300' post='2507677']
[b]Okay, let me put it this way[/b]: you have derided Archon as having an unfair reputation of fairness. In the context of this thread, I don't see the evidence. I disagree with the actions taken, but the rationale has been explained and he is engaging posters in this thread in a level-headed and rational fashion. The MK posters, well, not all of them get that credit, but MK posters are not a negative against Archon.[/quote]

I don't see the connection between "Archon isn't as bad as Moo" and this post here. The bolded part seems to indicate you are trying to better explain what you said originally, but this is an entirely new point.

And I haven't derided Archon for having an unfair reputation of fairness. That wouldn't even make sense. I wouldn't criticize someone for their reputation. I criticize Archon for his actions.

But coming at this "level-headed and rational" is part of the delusion of his reputation, which is the fault of those who believe in it. There is nothing level-headed or rational about MK's response to RV's thread.

[Yevgeni Luchenkov]

[quote name='Shodemofi' timestamp='1289288613' post='2507689']
Archon repeating what was said in the other thread doesn't make MK's extortion any more acceptable. Not to totally NPO-Godwin this thread, but this is the "they agreed to it" logic is the same thing that they used to force alliances to disband.
[/quote]
Yeah, except that instead of disbandment, PZI, EZI, viceroys, permanent tech farms or absurd reparations, we're speaking of 15m that they never even bothered trying to negotiate down to begin with.

[delendum]

[quote name='Sal Paradise' timestamp='1289288730' post='2507694']
I don't see the connection between "Archon isn't as bad as Moo" and this post here. The bolded part seems to indicate you are trying to better explain what you said originally, but this is an entirely new point.

And I haven't derided Archon for having an unfair reputation of fairness. That wouldn't even make sense. I wouldn't criticize someone for their reputation. I criticize Archon for his actions.

But coming at this "level-headed and rational" is part of the delusion of his reputation, which is the fault of those who believe in it. There is nothing level-headed or rational about MK's response to RV's thread.
[/quote]

You usually tend to get level headed and rational responses by being level headed and rational yourself, unless you're trying to imply RV's thread was level-headed and rational to begin with.

[Voytek]

[quote name='Biff Webster' timestamp='1289288726' post='2507693']
Maybe "As bad/Not as bad as MK" will now be in fashion.
[/quote]
haha yeah maybe you should give it a whirl and see if it catches on