Ragnarok Declaration of War

[Wilhelm the Demented]

[quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1281313137' post='2405415']
So basically, from what I gather, NSO lets in some little nobody nation who RoK doesn't like. RoK talks to some minister of whatever about it being a bad idea, and attacks the guy before information is given to NSO. NSO's knee-jerk reaction is to aid the guy of course, and since information flow is not instantaneous, aid is dropped on him before anyone knows anything. Rok, naturally, jumps on the aiding of trivial sums of money to a trivial nation as the "most evil, egregious act of war EVAR!" and immediately declares war on NSO, all the while NSO is seeking immediate negotiation for a diplomatic resolution to the issue. RoK never responds to these offers of negotiation.[/quote]
Correction; RoK didn't say it would be the "Most evil, egregious act of war EVAR!" they just stated that it would be seen as an act of war.

[quote]Why am I not surprised that all these alliances are jumping on this terribly flimsy CB. I mean, even NPO at least tried to feign diplomacy. And why am I even less surprised to see the usual characters claiming there is 'no problem' in this war mongering? Oh yeah, almost forgot you guys were all itching to give out another curbie. Who needs diplomacy anyway when you have the political support to commit whatever crime you want?

I suppose I should give you credit that you didn't roll NSO months ago for "looking at you funny."
[/quote]
It was laid out plain as day, NSO has no one to blame but themselves.

You all can put your tinfoil hats away now, your conjecture is ridiculous at best.

[SirWilliam]

[quote name='Corinan' timestamp='1281311966' post='2405267']
See what I mean? They're not even trying to hide what they [i]really[/i] want.
[/quote]

I want to defend an ally against those who may attack it. Sue me.

[quote name='Dom Zak' timestamp='1281312247' post='2405310']
Hey SirWilliam,

I believe this [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=90352"]thread[/url] answers your question.
[/quote]

Hey Dom Zak,

I've questioned nothing. I do, however, still await something (seeing as how my allies are involved and all), even in light of NSO's stance on the matter.

Edited August 9, 2010 by SirWilliam

[HeroofTime55]

[quote name='Van Hoo III' timestamp='1281312839' post='2405382']
We had to scramble since NSO was heading to peace mode. We got who was on IRC and had them declare. The initial plan did not call for so many alliances. I know you won't believe that, and that is fine ... but facts are facts.
[/quote]
I believe you. I believe this statement speaks quite clearly of your true intentions. You wanted to get in a curbie. And you weren't about to allow that pesky thing called diplomacy get in your way. Since peace mode is a big obstacle to the handing out of curbies, you were forced to act quickly, no time to feign diplomacy.

Thanks, Hoo, for admitting that the real CB was "We wanted to roll them before they could protect themselves"

[Rebel Virginia]

[quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1281313137' post='2405415']
So basically, from what I gather, NSO lets in some little nobody nation who RoK doesn't like. RoK talks to some minister of whatever about it being a bad idea, and attacks the guy before information is given to NSO. NSO's knee-jerk reaction is to aid the guy of course, and since information flow is not instantaneous, aid is dropped on him before anyone knows anything. Rok, naturally, jumps on the aiding of trivial sums of money to a trivial nation as the "most evil, egregious act of war EVAR!" and immediately declares war on NSO, all the while NSO is seeking immediate negotiation for a diplomatic resolution to the issue. RoK never responds to these offers of negotiation.

Why am I not surprised that all these alliances are jumping on this terribly flimsy CB. I mean, even NPO at least tried to feign diplomacy. And why am I even less surprised to see the usual characters claiming there is 'no problem' in this war mongering? Oh yeah, almost forgot you guys were all itching to give out another curbie. Who needs diplomacy anyway when you have the political support to commit whatever crime you want?

I suppose I should give you credit that you didn't roll NSO months ago for "looking at you funny."
[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]What you're forgetting to add is that RoK had already decided on war before we even talked to them. I came to Van Hoo to discuss a resolution several hours after the aiding took place. It was my hope that we could come to a satisfactory agreement. Seems RoK never intended for that to be a possibility.[/color]

[Wad of Lint]

[quote name='Myworld' timestamp='1281313303' post='2405435']
This looks to be fun. Have fun Rok o/

Now for NSO, I can only ask why would you accept a nation that had active wars with an alliance, then knowingly send aid to him that would be considered an act of war? Seriously, was your admissions team out partying and got to drunk on Sith Ale to figure that one out that you don't admit a nation to an AA until cleared by the alliance he's attacking?
[/quote]

Have you forgotton that we willingly accept ZI-listers and rogues? Protection is another story, it is waived with proof of claim.

[Qazzian]

[quote name='Kevin McDonald' timestamp='1281313364' post='2405440']
What a laughable statement. Being in the right never had anything to do with it... being secure in your victory was the only thing that ever did, regardless of right or wrong.
[/quote]

Strange how well that exact statement works right now. Simply stunning.

[Van Hoo III]

[quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1281313553' post='2405465']
I believe you. I believe this statement speaks quite clearly of your true intentions. You wanted to get in a curbie. And you weren't about to allow that pesky thing called diplomacy get in your way. Since peace mode is a big obstacle to the handing out of curbies, you were forced to act quickly, no time to feign diplomacy.

Thanks, Hoo, for admitting that the real CB was "We wanted to roll them before they could protect themselves"
[/quote]


Amazing. You have not changed one bit. Despite all that time off, you still do not think before posting. Re-read what I said and take another crack.

[Felix von Agnu]

[quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1281313137' post='2405415']
Why am I not surprised that all these alliances are jumping on this terribly flimsy CB. I mean, even NPO at least tried to feign diplomacy. And why am I even less surprised to see the usual characters claiming there is 'no problem' in this war mongering? Oh yeah, almost forgot you guys were all itching to give out another curbie. Who needs diplomacy anyway when you have the political support to commit whatever crime you want?
[/quote]
It is absolutely golden to hear you say this. Especially being on the giving end of "curbie's" in the past.

[Sir Keshav IV]

Go RoK!

Good luck in the field of war.

[Chickenzilla]

[quote name='Corinan' timestamp='1281311966' post='2405267']
See what I mean? They're not even trying to hide what they [i]really[/i] want.
[/quote]
To set up IRON?

[Kevin McDonald]

[quote name='Qazzian' timestamp='1281313651' post='2405479']
Strange how well that exact statement works right now. Simply stunning.
[/quote]

Victory is only assured because the Coalition of Cowards is still alive and kicking. Otherwise, who knows?

[Bob Janova]

RoK: Don't aid the rogue, that'll be an act of war
NSO: *aids*
RoK: That's an act of war! War!
NSO: What? What did we do wrong?

Really? You waited for Hoo to tell you not to aid the rogue and then did it anyway? That's about as blatant a provocation as you can get. Yes, of course $6m is pretty irrelevant, but it's a matter of principle, and you don't get to do something so deliberately inflammatory and then get to play the 'Who? Me?' card when you get attacked for it.

Enjoy your war, maybe it'll knock some sense into you, clearly your admissions staff need some and so does whoever decided it would be clever to order that aid sent.

Edit:
[quote]Have you forgotton that we willingly accept ZI-listers and rogues?[/quote]
I told you when you started that policy that it would get you into trouble ...

Edited August 9, 2010 by Bob Janova

[Ackbarican Idol]

[quote name='Heft' timestamp='1281310519' post='2405142']
Shame on me for falling into the obvious political trap.

Oh well.
[/quote]

If only there was a guy that would go around warning people about traps...

[Pomiel]

[quote name='Corinan' timestamp='1281311516' post='2405234']
Say what?
[/quote]


Derp, how many times has RoK declared < an hour before update? exactly how many times the alliance we're declaring on started fleeing into PM

[Qazzian]

[quote name='Kevin McDonald' timestamp='1281313707' post='2405487']
Victory is only assured because the Coalition of Cowards is still alive and kicking. Otherwise, who knows?
[/quote]

I'm sure the way the treaties line up alliances, the alliances who are under reps or rebuilding from reps or anything of that sort play a role in assurances.

[Heft]

[quote name='Rampage3' timestamp='1281313191' post='2405421']
You are a liar. We tried to speak with you. You were too busy being all Sithy and cool. Then we told you how to make this go away. THEN we told you not to aid the jerk and you did it. MISTAKE.
[/quote]
From the conversations had with you prior to the attacks being launched, we were left with the clear impression that if you were going to continue pursuing him, it would only be after discussing the issue with us and letting us go over why you wanted him.

If that had happened then in all likelihood we would have been fine letting you have your way. That did not happen.

Today, our efforts at communication were consistently dodged, and no opportunity for resolution was ever presented.

[Folkvar Forkbeard]

o/ ROK

Good luck

[Kevin McDonald]

[quote name='Qazzian' timestamp='1281313886' post='2405504']
I'm sure the way the treaties line up alliances, the alliances who are under reps or rebuilding from reps or anything of that sort play a role in assurances.
[/quote]

I really didn`t understand that statement, but all I`ll say is most of us are still rebuilding one way or another.

[Branimir]

That desperate for a CB? lol

[Wad of Lint]

[quote name='Bob Janova' timestamp='1281313711' post='2405488']
RoK: Don't aid the rogue, that'll be an act of war
NSO: *aids*
RoK: That's an act of war! War!
NSO: What? What did we do wrong?

Really? You waited for Hoo to tell you not to aid the rogue and then did it anyway? That's about as blatant a provocation as you can get. Yes, of course $6m is pretty irrelevant, but it's a matter of principle, and you don't get to do something so deliberately inflammatory and then get to play the 'Who? Me?' card when you get attacked for it.

Enjoy your war, maybe it'll knock some sense into you, clearly your admissions staff need some and so does whoever decided it would be clever to order that aid sent.
[/quote]

So can I go to VE and claim you're a rogue? How about any number of VE-applicants? No. I better have proof of my claims.

[quote]
Edit:

I told you when you started that policy that it would get you into trouble ...
[/quote]

It does not mean we are unwilling to do it.

[Qazzian]

[quote name='Kevin McDonald' timestamp='1281313954' post='2405510']
I really didn`t understand that statement, but all I`ll say is most of us are still rebuilding one way or another.
[/quote]

Let me spell it out for you.

The new hegemony has a distinct numbers advantage.

Simple enough?

[Choson]

[quote name='Wad of Lint' timestamp='1281313032' post='2405400']
I am sorry I do not play the coward when threatened with a war.
[/quote]

Your alliance in peace mode speaks volumes to the contrary.

Edited August 9, 2010 by Choson

[HeroofTime55]

[quote name='Kevin McDonald' timestamp='1281313270' post='2405428']
NSO aided him after they were informed what would happen if they did. Actions have consequences, both sides chose theres.
[/quote]Right, before RoK gave them any information as to WHY this guy was on a hit list. So NSO should just let him get smacked instead of protecting their member. Who needs that silly thing called 'evidence' anyway. RoK said he was guilty so obviously he was guilty! It's a good thing RoK is there to be judge, jury, and executioner for members of other alliances.

[Kevin McDonald]

[quote name='Qazzian' timestamp='1281314056' post='2405519']
Let me spell it out for you.

The new hegemony has a distinct numbers advantage.

Simple enough?
[/quote]

Ah... so there should never, ever, ever be a war when one side is stronger than the other. Got it.

[Kevin McDonald]

[quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1281314095' post='2405525']
Right, before RoK gave them any information as to WHY this guy was on a hit list. So NSO should just let him get smacked instead of protecting their member. Who needs that silly thing called 'evidence' anyway. RoK said he was guilty so obviously he was guilty! It's a good thing RoK is there to be judge, jury, and executioner for members of other alliances.
[/quote]

OR... you say, hey, why don`t we not give aid immediately after being told not to and see if there`s another solution. Even Heft admitted his mistake.