Ragnarok Declaration of War

[Choson]

[quote name='Jasmines Jewels' timestamp='1281314987' post='2405600']
Are you speaking of the resolution LintWad was hoping to discuss tonight since he just arrived home from a planned vacation? Oh wait, that wasn't allowed to happen. Silly me.
[/quote]

That's a pretty bad way to run an alliance if everything grinds to a halt when the leader leaves for any portion of time.

[HeroofTime55]

[quote name='Van Hoo III' timestamp='1281313654' post='2405480']
Amazing. You have not changed one bit. Despite all that time off, you still do not think before posting. Re-read what I said and take another crack.
[/quote]Oh, sorry for omitting the blatant attempt to goad NPO into war. I just figured I'd respond to the interesting parts. Sorry, my bad. Should I quote it and explicitly add a little remark that you are goading them, or can we just accept this sentence as sufficient?

Moving on, let's look at the part I did quote:
[quote=HeroofTime55]
[quote name='Van Hoo III' timestamp='1281312839' post='2405382']
We had to scramble since NSO was heading to peace mode. We got who was on IRC and had them declare. The initial plan did not call for so many alliances. I know you won't believe that, and that is fine ... but facts are facts.
[/quote]
I believe you. I believe this statement speaks quite clearly of your true intentions. You wanted to get in a curbie. And you weren't about to allow that pesky thing called diplomacy get in your way. Since peace mode is a big obstacle to the handing out of curbies, you were forced to act quickly, no time to feign diplomacy.

Thanks, Hoo, for admitting that the real CB was "We wanted to roll them before they could protect themselves"[/quote]
So what am I missing, I re-read it a couple of times. It looks to me like you claimed you had to scramble to declare war before NSO hit peace mode, and the volume of alliances is only because you wanted to have enough people who were immediately and instantly available to ensure not a single further NSO nation could escape to peace mode, but maybe I'm missing something here.

My further analysis of why you casually skipped over diplomacy here isn't something you explicitly stated, and I wouldn't expect it to be. But you gave away your hand with the implicit reasoning of your actions.

[Heft]

[quote name='Kevin McDonald' timestamp='1281314153' post='2405530']
OR... you say, hey, why don`t we not give aid immediately after being told not to and see if there`s another solution. Even Heft admitted his mistake.
[/quote]
I don't think sending him aid was inherently wrong, I think my mistake was expecting RoK to handle it in the normal way that these things are handled, rather than going out of their way to turn it into a war.

Can't fault them for it from a tactical perspective, though. I gave them the opening and they moved in.

[Kevin McDonald]

[quote name='Heft' timestamp='1281315155' post='2405613']
I don't think sending him aid was inherently wrong, I think my mistake was expecting RoK to handle it in the normal way that these things are handled, rather than going out of their way to turn it into a war.

Can't fault them for it from a tactical perspective, though. I gave them the opening and they moved in.
[/quote]

Or, if you were so keen on investigating and waiting for Wad of Lint to get back as you are all claiming you could have, you know, not aided him.

[Qazzian]

[quote name='Penkala' timestamp='1281315021' post='2405602']
Ever hear of treaties?
[/quote]

I do believe I've said that treaties are exactly what you and yours are depending on in this. Or did you miss that entire part of the conversation?

[Williambonney]

[quote name='Kalasin' timestamp='1281314776' post='2405587']
Karma was about justice. Pacifica deserved what they got. Besides, their reps weren't that bad. They were in proportion to reps that Pacifica levied on those they defeated, and they were able to be paid in a timely fashion as far as I am aware. They could've been sooooo much worse.
[/quote]
Reparations of 350,000 tech and $10,000,000,000 are the largest in cn history, let me know when your alliance can move that much in the same amount of time. k thnx bye.

Edited August 9, 2010 by William Bonney

[Choson]

[quote name='Heft' timestamp='1281315155' post='2405613']
I don't think sending him aid was inherently wrong, I think my mistake was expecting RoK to handle it in the normal way that these things are handled, rather than going out of their way to turn it into a war.

Can't fault them for it from a tactical perspective, though. I gave them the opening and they moved in.
[/quote]

It was inherently wrong. They said don't aid this guy for XYZ reasons, and yet you did it. If you wanted to wait for RoK to prove it, or for NSO members to look at his war history, you could have.

The onus was on NSO, not RoK, to act in a proper diplomatic effort.

[Kevin McDonald]

[quote name='Qazzian' timestamp='1281315242' post='2405622']
I do believe I've said that treaties are exactly what you and yours are depending on in this. Or did you miss that entire part of the conversation?
[/quote]

So in order to teach us a lesson the treaties will be ignored. You sure got us!

[Heft]

[quote name='Choson' timestamp='1281315094' post='2405607']
That's a pretty bad way to run an alliance if everything grinds to a halt when the leader leaves for any portion of time.
[/quote]
Well that was basically the excuse we got when we tried to talk to RoK today. "Oh, umm, Hoo isn't around, can't do anything."

[Yankees Empire]

Good job NSO. You say RoK could've showed you some proof? Well you could have...I don't know, not aided the rogue? Doesn't seem too difficult to me.

o/ RoK

[bigwoody]

[quote name='Kevin McDonald' timestamp='1281315294' post='2405626']
So in order to teach us a lesson the treaties will be ignored. You sure got us!
[/quote]
Yeah, pretty much they did. What I wouldn't give to see the wailing and gnashing of teeth going on in backchannels right now.

[Kevin McDonald]

[quote name='bigwoody' timestamp='1281315436' post='2405638']
Yeah, pretty much they did. What I wouldn't give to see the wailing and gnashing of teeth going on in backchannels right now.
[/quote]

They`re pretty quiet... again, no one expected the Coalition of Cowards to intervene, we were just hoping for a nice surprise.

[Choson]

[quote name='Heft' timestamp='1281315375' post='2405632']
Well that was basically the excuse we got when we tried to talk to RoK today. "Oh, umm, Hoo isn't around, can't do anything."
[/quote]

Was that before or after you aided him?

[Wad of Lint]

[quote name='Choson' timestamp='1281315094' post='2405607']
That's a pretty bad way to run an alliance if everything grinds to a halt when the leader leaves for any portion of time.
[/quote]

They were informed I would be arriving in time to come to any resolution. Regardless, it seems Van Hoo was away so no discussions could take place. Seems like a pretty bad way to run an alliance if everything grinds to a halt when the leader leaves for any portion of time.

[Qazzian]

[quote name='Kevin McDonald' timestamp='1281315294' post='2405626']
So in order to teach us a lesson the treaties will be ignored. You sure got us!
[/quote]

Interesting choice of words, that "us". I take it that means you admit that you're in on the plan since your alliance isn't already fighting.

[Kalasin]

[quote name='Qazzian' timestamp='1281315094' post='2405606']
That is total and absolute BS. The reps given to Pacifica were the largest by ANY measure, proportion or not.

I will now assume you are fine with all reps provided they can be paid in a "timely fashion" and "could have been worse".
[/quote]

It's not that your reps were really really bad but they could have been worse (although they could have been), it's that they weren't that bad in the first place. Given proportionality, and given what I said about the reasons for your reps (that Pacifica had done some really bad things), the reps were fine. Did you see removal from government? No. Was Xiphosis imposed as your viceroy? No. Was Pacifica re-attacked while under terms? No. I think you get the picture.

[HeroofTime55]

[quote name='Kevin McDonald' timestamp='1281314885' post='2405590']
My definition of cowardice is not honouring a treaty. What is yours?
[/quote]Now that NSO has explicitly stated they will not be calling on their allies, their allies are honoring their treaties to the fullest extent. RoK and friends thought NSO was a simple push button that could bring NPO and friends into a curbie, but they forgot that the notion of "Defense" is so much more than running blindly into an obvious trap.

But please, keep trying to goad NPO into war. It's so hilarious, how quickly the real reasons for this war reveal themselves.

[Kevin McDonald]

[quote name='Qazzian' timestamp='1281315554' post='2405652']
Interesting choice of words, that "us". I take it that means you admit that you're in on the plan since your alliance isn't already fighting.
[/quote]

Did my MDoAP partner(s) inform me they were going to war? Yes, they did.

Edited August 9, 2010 by Kevin McDonald

[Daeryon]

Meet the new boss.

Same as the old boss...

[Daeryon]

[quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1281315628' post='2405656']
Now that NSO has explicitly stated they will not be calling on their allies, their allies are honoring their treaties to the fullest extent. RoK and friends thought NSO was a simple push button that could bring NPO and friends into a curbie, but they forgot that the notion of "Defense" is so much more than running blindly into an obvious trap.

But please, keep trying to goad NPO into war. It's so hilarious, how quickly the real reasons for this war reveal themselves.
[/quote]

Bingo.

Didn't take long at all now did it.

[Ragashingo]

[quote name='Kevin McDonald' timestamp='1281314885' post='2405590']
My definition of cowardice is not honouring a treaty. What is yours?
[/quote]

Your definition is a good start but horribly limited and flawed. If the NSO's allies were not defending them when requested that would be one thing and I'd support your CoC label. That is not the case here. Here the NSO specifically asked its allies to stay out. This is not something new for either CN in general or the NSO specifically. I seem to recall the NSO making a similar request at least once before, and I clearly recall them waging at least one 1 v 1 war in the past. So yeah, your definition is good only until you apply it to the real world. Then it stinks. As do you since you are trying to accuse alliance of dishonor where none exist.

[Kevin McDonald]

[quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1281315628' post='2405656']
Now that NSO has explicitly stated they will not be calling on their allies, their allies are honoring their treaties to the fullest extent. RoK and friends thought NSO was a simple push button that could bring NPO and friends into a curbie, but they forgot that the notion of "Defense" is so much more than running blindly into an obvious trap.

But please, keep trying to goad NPO into war. It's so hilarious, how quickly the real reasons for this war reveal themselves.
[/quote]

I get it, I do. Since we won`t accept your ``they aren`t cowards line``, you won`t accept out ``this isn`t a plan to get NPO line.`` It really isnt though. Maybe once this war is ancient history logs of the notifications of the impeding attack will come out, and you will all see NPO is nowhere to be mentioned.

[bigwoody]

[quote name='Kevin McDonald' timestamp='1281315503' post='2405646']
They`re pretty quiet... again, no one expected the Coalition of Cowards to intervene, we were just hoping for a nice surprise.
[/quote]
Spare me the half-baked goading. Have fun watching.

[Daeryon]

[quote name='Kevin McDonald' timestamp='1281314885' post='2405590']
My definition of cowardice is not honouring a treaty. What is yours?
[/quote]

Ganging up with a bunch of other people to bully a weaker opponent.

[Jasmines Jewels]

[quote name='Choson' timestamp='1281315094' post='2405607']That's a pretty bad way to run an alliance if everything grinds to a halt when the leader leaves for any portion of time.[/quote]

Clearly that's what happened with NSO. Time stamps show last night, he returned today and was requesting a meeting to discuss things but SF jumps straight into war.

Definitely ground to a halt. *rolls eyes*