The New Grämlins

[shilo]

[quote name='Matthew PK' date='26 April 2010 - 12:59 AM' timestamp='1272236370' post='2274961']
Perhaps we're interested in more than victory.
[/quote]
You must be, cause you blew that chance when you decided to go ahead with your insane plan. But at least the realization of this is the first step to return to a sane state of mind again.

[Cataduanes]

[quote name='Matthew PK' date='25 April 2010 - 11:59 PM' timestamp='1272236370' post='2274961']
Perhaps we're interested in more than victory.
[/quote]
It will be a hollow victory if it does indeed come to pass, a victory bereft of meaningful strategic achievement, one totally pyrrhic in nature.

Edited April 26, 2010 by Cataduanes

[Heft]

[quote name='Bob Janova' date='25 April 2010 - 05:04 PM' timestamp='1272233059' post='2274877']
Yeah, just because they can't individually do anything about it doesn't mean it's fine. You should have learnt that from the response from Aqua when you tried to recruit from TDO. I don't really know why RIA accepted you (RV) in the first place, and I'm sure they're not happy with you damaging their image like this.
[/quote]
Aqua never did anything.

People need to calm down.

[Baden-Württemberg]

[quote name='Matthew PK' date='26 April 2010 - 12:59 AM' timestamp='1272236370' post='2274961']
Perhaps we're interested in more than victory.
[/quote]

winner.

Do you want to be the first alliance on the winning side paying reps?
Or do you want to be the first alliance on the winning side disbanding?

[Lord Brendan]

[quote name='Heft' date='26 April 2010 - 11:54 AM' timestamp='1272297255' post='2276051']
Aqua never did anything.

People need to calm down.
[/quote]

I think the backing of alliances like Gremlins encouraged TDO to be more assertive than they otherwise would have been. Whether the same end would have resulted either way is debatable.

Although in reviewing that little controversy, I notice Ivan only promised that you'd never again recruit from other alliances while [i]he[/i] was Emperor.

[ktarthan]

[quote name='Matthew PK' date='25 April 2010 - 03:59 PM' timestamp='1272236370' post='2274961']
Perhaps we're interested in more than victory.
[/quote]
This is a statement that I can identify with. While I don't agree with the methodology that seems to be in place to achieve whatever your goal is, I do know what it is like having one goal in mind and having the world shout it is another. For this reason, I feel I should at least refrain from fully judging the situation until it has been resolved. It would make it a lot easier if the Gramlins went public with their final intentions... but I guess that would ruin the surprise.

[TypoNinja]

[quote name='Matthew PK' date='25 April 2010 - 06:59 PM' timestamp='1272236370' post='2274961']
Perhaps we're interested in more than victory.
[/quote]

Ohhh I know! Your interested in starting a hockey league in hell and need it to freeze over, because damn! You've got alliances who normally would call each other lairs for asserting the sky is blue united in this thread with the opinion that you're two fries short a happy meal on this one.

[Aeternos Astramora]

Gre lost another two nations to deletions, one a 50K NS. Four small nations are 23 days inactive and a fifth small nation is 22 days inactive.

[ironchef]

[quote name='Aeternos Astramora' date='26 April 2010 - 12:53 PM' timestamp='1272311591' post='2276278']
Gre lost another two nations to deletions, one a 50K NS. Four small nations are 23 days inactive and a fifth small nation is 22 days inactive.
[/quote]

I give you The New Grämlins. Way to kill a once great alliance Ram&Co.

4/12/10 Total Nations 65 Strength 3634618 Avg. Strength 55917 Tech 316951
4/26/10 Total Nations 56 Strength 2868596 Avg. Strength 51225 Tech 248901

Edited April 26, 2010 by ironchef

[Horatio Longworth]

All we are saying, is give peace a chance.


And that's all I have to say about that.

[Heft]

[quote name='Lord Brendan' date='26 April 2010 - 11:35 AM' timestamp='1272299700' post='2276093']
I think the backing of alliances like Gremlins encouraged TDO to be more assertive than they otherwise would have been. Whether the same end would have resulted either way is debatable.

Although in reviewing that little controversy, I notice Ivan only promised that you'd never again recruit from other alliances while [i]he[/i] was Emperor.
[/quote]
TDO wasn't really assertive so much as deceptive, though. There was a reason they got the worst deal out of the four.

But anyway.

Everyone is free to recruit from Gramlins though at this point I'm skeptical that there are many nations worth there still worth recruiting. A few, I suppose (Shamshir still there?), and I suppose the rest might make for okay meatshields. At least no one would have to worry about them challenging government decisions ever.

[WalkerNinja]

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' date='25 April 2010 - 03:01 PM' timestamp='1272225660' post='2274691']
[color="#0000FF"]I fail to see your logic here. Alliances are smart to recruit. If you do not recruit you cannot grow. Simple sense here.[/color]
[/quote]

TOP does okay without recruiting. On the otherhand, GRE recruited an entire Filipino alliance, and look what's happened to them...

[quote name='QuotingTheCrow' date='25 April 2010 - 04:23 PM' timestamp='1272230613' post='2274815']
No one else thought it was funny. It's just embarrassing for those doing it.
[/quote]


I thought that it was funny. If GRE is going to be in the business of defying inter-alliance political conventions, then they must also expect that others will act similarly towards them. And on top of that, going to war over "poaching" is stupid. If they're willing to leave you behind for a form-letter and the promise of free money, they were never really yours in the first place.

[quote name='Baden-Württemberg' date='26 April 2010 - 11:06 AM' timestamp='1272297974' post='2276062']
winner.

Do you want to be the first alliance on the winning side paying reps?
Or do you want to be the first alliance on the winning side disbanding?
[/quote]


I like you.

Edited April 27, 2010 by WalkerNinja

[Egwaterboy61]

[quote name='WalkerNinja' date='27 April 2010 - 04:04 AM' timestamp='1272337447' post='2276824']
TOP does okay without recruiting. On the otherhand, GRE recruited an entire Filipino alliance, and look what's happened to them...
[/quote]

How else would Ram have gotten re-elected?

[Letum]

[quote name='TypoNinja' date='26 April 2010 - 07:03 PM' timestamp='1272304963' post='2276179']
You've got alliances who normally would call each other lairs for asserting the sky is blue united in this thread with the opinion that you're two fries short a happy meal on this one.
[/quote]

My good sir, I do think your assertion that the sky is blue is not factual. Why, I myself have seen red, black, yellow and gray skies.


[quote]
And on top of that, going to war over "poaching" is stupid. If they're willing to leave you behind for a form-letter and the promise of free money, they were never really yours in the first place.
[/quote]

Seldom do people go to war because they truly care about the "trigger" for the conflict. They just want to fight the "other side", and await a suitable excuse to do so, with everyone else being caught up in the snare of obligations and friendships. So, keeping that in mind, poaching is likely to be portrayed as an act of war (or at least, as a high offence), not so much for the resources lost (which, as you have noted, are not reliable), but for the violation of sovereignty. Poaching in general leaves a very bad taste between alliances, especially since the "poached" members will sometimes include political opponents.

But, in the end of the day, whether war happens depends on whether people are actually interested in it happening. And I do not think Gre is interested in fighting someone else, though, given that they seem pretty irrational right now, I cannot be very certain.

[Cortath]

[quote name='Letum' date='27 April 2010 - 09:21 PM' timestamp='1272417669' post='2277929']
My good sir, I do think your assertion that the sky is blue is not factual. Why, I myself have seen red, black, yellow and gray skies.




Seldom do people go to war because they truly care about the "trigger" for the conflict. They just want to fight the "other side", and await a suitable excuse to do so, with everyone else being caught up in the snare of obligations and friendships. So, keeping that in mind, poaching is likely to be portrayed as an act of war (or at least, as a high offence), not so much for the resources lost (which, as you have noted, are not reliable), but for the violation of sovereignty. Poaching in general leaves a very bad taste between alliances, especially since the "poached" members will sometimes include political opponents.

But, in the end of the day, whether war happens depends on whether people are actually interested in it happening. And I do not think Gre is interested in fighting someone else, though, given that they seem pretty irrational right now, I cannot be very certain.
[/quote]

Theory tends to get thrown out the window when you're no longer dealing with rational state actors, unfortunately.

[Aeternos Astramora]

[quote name='Aeternos Astramora' date='26 April 2010 - 02:53 PM' timestamp='1272311591' post='2276278']
Gre lost another two nations to deletions, one a 50K NS. Four small nations are 23 days inactive and a fifth small nation is 22 days inactive.
[/quote]
I believe Gre lost a nation that wasn't to deletion because three nations are now at 25 days inactive instead of four, yet Gre has lost a member.

Those three small nations at 25 days inactive actually have about 20 nukes and 25 wonders between them all. Another nation is at 24 days inactive with 13 wonders.

[Crymson]

[quote name='Aeternos Astramora' date='28 April 2010 - 12:02 AM' timestamp='1272434561' post='2278271']
I believe Gre lost a nation that wasn't to deletion because three nations are now at 25 days inactive instead of four, yet Gre has lost a member.

Those three small nations at 25 days inactive actually have about 20 nukes and 25 wonders between them all. Another nation is at 24 days inactive with 13 wonders.
[/quote]

Those three are gone. Eighteen others are in anarchy, and seven are in peace mode.

Edited April 28, 2010 by Crymson

[ironchef]

4/12/10 Total Nations 65 Strength 3634618 Avg. Strength 55917 Tech 316951
4/26/10 Total Nations 56 Strength 2868596 Avg. Strength 51225 Tech 248901
4/28/10 Total Nations 52 Strength 2827773 Avg. Strength 54380 Tech 245584

And they are up to 9 in PM now. Looks like they are making a run for it.

Edited April 28, 2010 by ironchef

[Broncos98]

Bye Gramlins, you had a nice run.

[TypoNinja]

[quote name='ironchef' date='28 April 2010 - 07:20 PM' timestamp='1272496820' post='2278986']
4/12/10 Total Nations 65 Strength 3634618 Avg. Strength 55917 Tech 316951
4/26/10 Total Nations 56 Strength 2868596 Avg. Strength 51225 Tech 248901
4/28/10 Total Nations 52 Strength 2827773 Avg. Strength 54380 Tech 245584

And they are up to 9 in PM now. Looks like they are making a run for it.
[/quote]

Id be more interested in an overview of their total wonders since this whole thing started.

Edited April 28, 2010 by TypoNinja

[Haflinger]

[quote name='TypoNinja' date='28 April 2010 - 07:56 PM' timestamp='1272498945' post='2279048']
Id be more interested in an overview of their total wonders since this whole thing started.
[/quote]
UE should have those stats.

[Mixoux]

4/04/10 Total Wonders: 1,146 (16.8 avg)
4/12/10 Total Wonders: 1,079 (16.8 avg)
4/28/10 Total Wonders: 864 (16.6 avg)


Was going to include nukes, but yeah. Anyway, while Gre still has a fairly high avg and a nice upper tier, overall their individual power/influence is largely gone. I can only imagine how many more will defect/delete in the coming weeks.

Edited April 29, 2010 by Mixoux

[ironchef]

[quote name='TypoNinja' date='28 April 2010 - 04:56 PM' timestamp='1272498945' post='2279048']
Id be more interested in an overview of their total wonders since this whole thing started.
[/quote]

You would TypoNinja you would. Nothing I ever do is good enough for you . all you do is take take take!!! Its over.. I'm done.
[i][color="#FF0000"]ironchef[/color] runs off to cry[/i]

No I wish I would have thought of it that first day but I didnt. [s]It would be great to see an overview of their total wonders from the start of this mess[/s]. Looks like Mixoux got them just as I was asking

edit for [s]strikethrough[/s]

Edited April 29, 2010 by ironchef

[TypoNinja]

Down 282 wonders, or about a quarter of their total. Ouch.

Sorry, Ironchef, and thanks mixoux.

[Lord Brendan]

[quote name='Haflinger' date='28 April 2010 - 08:47 PM' timestamp='1272502060' post='2279117']
UE should have those stats.
[/quote]

I don't think he keeps wonder stats, actually. He gathers them from time to time, but the most recent you could get would probably be January or something.