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The New Grämlins


Iotupa
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I don't consider myself a friend of IRON, as I've had my fair share of differences with them in the past. In fact, prior to the restoration of the GGA, I was in MK fighting against IRON and TOP nations because of their outright aggressive attack on C&G. However, the behavior exhibited by the new Grämlins is outrageous and on par with the behavior of the NPO of the past. I call upon all right and just people of the Cyberverse to realize this is not the Grämlins of old and that remaining tied to them and encouraging this behavior is detrimental to the entirety of Planet Bob.

The "too long; didn't read" of the following logs are that IRON was offered terms, which they accepted, but were then told the terms were no longer available. Grämlins has decided they want IRON to completely demilitarize, without offering them any protection, before they will even "discuss peace terms." Read and make your own decision, but this war continues only because of the new Grämlins tyrannical behavior.

[quote]Session Start: Thu Mar 18 19:39:04 2010
Session Ident: VonDroz|Gre
01[19:39] <DVDCCHN[IRON|SoS]> hi
[19:39] <VonDroz|Gre> hey man
[19:39] <VonDroz|Gre> heard you were looking for me?
01[19:39] <DVDCCHN[IRON|SoS]> sorry to intrude, but i hear you were looking for IRON
01[19:39] <DVDCCHN[IRON|SoS]> lol ditto
[19:39] <VonDroz|Gre> lol
04[19:40] <VonDroz|Gre> yeah just wanted to chat w/ IRON .gov etc
01[19:40] <DVDCCHN[IRON|SoS]> ah well hi
01[19:40] <DVDCCHN[IRON|SoS]> i am the Secretary of State
01[19:40] <DVDCCHN[IRON|SoS]> if that suffices for you
01[19:40] <DVDCCHN[IRON|SoS]> how is GRE holding up?
[19:40] <VonDroz|Gre> we're holding up excellently
[19:41] <VonDroz|Gre> i just went over stats and historical records
01[19:41] <DVDCCHN[IRON|SoS]> sounds like a fun time
[19:41] <VonDroz|Gre> i estimate we can fight for a couple years at this pace, a little longer bc i estimate a few applicants will join as well
01[19:42] <DVDCCHN[IRON|SoS]> o doubt
01[19:42] <DVDCCHN[IRON|SoS]> *no doubt
01[19:42] <DVDCCHN[IRON|SoS]> i figure the same
[19:42] <VonDroz|Gre> excellent!
01[19:42] <DVDCCHN[IRON|SoS]> Smile
01[19:42] <DVDCCHN[IRON|SoS]> yeah, you have your friends
[19:42] <VonDroz|Gre> it's fun for sure
01[19:42] <DVDCCHN[IRON|SoS]> we ahve ours
01[19:42] <DVDCCHN[IRON|SoS]> the pissing gsame aside
[19:42] <VonDroz|Gre> we do indeed!
[19:42] <VonDroz|Gre> heh
01[19:42] <DVDCCHN[IRON|SoS]> our members want peace
01[19:42] <DVDCCHN[IRON|SoS]> you know that too
[19:42] <VonDroz|Gre> i do
01[19:42] <DVDCCHN[IRON|SoS]> but we can play this if you like
01[19:43] <DVDCCHN[IRON|SoS]> i always had respect for GRE though
01[19:43] <DVDCCHN[IRON|SoS]> the old one
[19:43] <VonDroz|Gre> heh, the old one
01[19:43] <DVDCCHN[IRON|SoS]> well just like IRON is not who we were then, neither are you guys
01[19:43] <DVDCCHN[IRON|SoS]> we all change
[19:43] <VonDroz|Gre> there were good guys, there were bad guys, there were guys who started off cool and finished idiodic
[19:43] <VonDroz|Gre> absolutely
[19:43] <VonDroz|Gre> btw
01[19:44] <DVDCCHN[IRON|SoS]> yeah
[19:44] <VonDroz|Gre> i'd like to tell you my view on peace discussions
01[19:44] <DVDCCHN[IRON|SoS]> sweet, i would be honored (honoured if your british)
[19:44] <VonDroz|Gre> i don't want you to think i'm an asshat, bc i'm not a dick, i'm a nice guy, i'd love to chat with you, this isn't about feelings though, just straight business
01[19:45] <DVDCCHN[IRON|SoS]> oh i concur
[19:45] <VonDroz|Gre> so, don't just walk away and think "droz is a big $@!, $%&@ the gremlins"
[19:45] <VonDroz|Gre> excellent news
01[19:45] <DVDCCHN[IRON|SoS]> lol nah, i didnt have that impression
[19:45] <VonDroz|Gre> good man, good man
[19:45] <VonDroz|Gre> so, my views in summation:
[19:46] <VonDroz|Gre> i'm not going to negotiate terms now, that's not to my advantage, it's to yours
[19:46] <VonDroz|Gre> i won't talk peace at all, actually
01[19:46] <DVDCCHN[IRON|SoS]> ok
01[19:46] <DVDCCHN[IRON|SoS]> i am all eyes
04[19:47] <VonDroz|Gre> it's my intention and vehement policy to continue the fight until IRON is prepared to unconditionally surrender and disarm, admitting defeat, at which point we may certainly discuss terms
01[19:47] <DVDCCHN[IRON|SoS]> i see, the prior offer was 10k at 3/150
01[19:47] <DVDCCHN[IRON|SoS]> then i will withdraw our acceptance of that
[19:47] <VonDroz|Gre> i'm removing it
[19:47] <VonDroz|Gre> okay
01[19:49] <DVDCCHN[IRON|SoS]> then i dont see any other business then, we have already agreed to terms with all but sparta, so now then it shall be war until you are ready to discuss terms
[19:50] <VonDroz|Gre> no, no, no
[19:50] <VonDroz|Gre> i think you misunderstood me
[19:50] <VonDroz|Gre> it's war until you're ready to accept terms
[19:50] <VonDroz|Gre> until then
01[19:50] <DVDCCHN[IRON|SoS]> we had already acceepted the deal agreed
[19:50] <VonDroz|Gre> we will batter anyone in anything approaching a high ns level and anyone out of PM
01[19:50] <DVDCCHN[IRON|SoS]> it was removed
01[19:51] <DVDCCHN[IRON|SoS]> so be it
[19:51] <VonDroz|Gre> so be it
01[19:51] <DVDCCHN[IRON|SoS]> and you can police us
[19:51] <VonDroz|Gre> it'll be a pleasure
01[19:51] <DVDCCHN[IRON|SoS]> but i do not understand
01[19:51] <DVDCCHN[IRON|SoS]> you want us to unconditionaly surreneder, so then you can demand which ever you want, to deter and dismantle IRON
[19:51] <VonDroz|Gre> may i help you via clarification? i'm quite willing to explain myself
[19:52] <VonDroz|Gre> you see
[19:52] <VonDroz|Gre> this is about advantage and security
04[19:52] <VonDroz|Gre> Gre and IRON went to war, they fought, they parted quickly and amicably, after negotiating
[19:52] <VonDroz|Gre> remember? it wasn't long ago
01[19:53] <DVDCCHN[IRON|SoS]> i remember
01[19:53] <DVDCCHN[IRON|SoS]> and then you atacked us again this war
01[19:53] <DVDCCHN[IRON|SoS]> you recall that
[19:53] <VonDroz|Gre> i do
[19:53] <VonDroz|Gre> defensively
01[19:53] <DVDCCHN[IRON|SoS]> no
01[19:53] <DVDCCHN[IRON|SoS]> you have no treaties
01[19:53] <DVDCCHN[IRON|SoS]> paperless yes
01[19:54] <DVDCCHN[IRON|SoS]> so you have the right to intervine where ever
01[19:54] <DVDCCHN[IRON|SoS]> agressively
01[19:54] <DVDCCHN[IRON|SoS]> and then demand reps off if it
01[19:54] <DVDCCHN[IRON|SoS]> that is what i am seeing out of it no?
01[19:54] <DVDCCHN[IRON|SoS]> we were even told not to attack your dear freinds in FARK
01[19:54] <DVDCCHN[IRON|SoS]> and we honored that Smile
01[19:55] <DVDCCHN[IRON|SoS]> so as you were already prepeared to attack us
[19:55] <VonDroz|Gre> thank you Smile
[19:55] <VonDroz|Gre> listen
[19:55] <VonDroz|Gre> i want to say this
[19:55] <VonDroz|Gre> i've been drinking this evening
[19:55] <VonDroz|Gre> i will admit it
01[19:55] <DVDCCHN[IRON|SoS]> ah i envy you
[19:55] <VonDroz|Gre> drinking and watching WWII videos
[19:55] <VonDroz|Gre> at any rate
01[19:55] <DVDCCHN[IRON|SoS]> now your just being a jerk
01[19:55] <DVDCCHN[IRON|SoS]> ok sorry
[19:56] <VonDroz|Gre> i think what i said so far here was incredibly irresponsible of me, wouldn't you agree?
[19:56] <VonDroz|Gre> heh
[19:56] <VonDroz|Gre> i feel dumb
01[19:56] <DVDCCHN[IRON|SoS]> its ok
[19:56] <VonDroz|Gre> i'm reading now
01[19:56] <DVDCCHN[IRON|SoS]> we all have our stuff, jack and coke is my weakness
[19:56] <VonDroz|Gre> same bro
01[19:56] <DVDCCHN[IRON|SoS]> nice!
[19:56] <VonDroz|Gre> hell ya!
01[19:58] <DVDCCHN[IRON|SoS]> my fav is a shot of jack with a splash of coke, it makes it all so smooth
[19:58] <VonDroz|Gre> i think i tried to sound like churchill
06[19:58] * VonDroz|Gre shudders
[19:58] <VonDroz|Gre> and i love that man
[19:58] <VonDroz|Gre> sounds awesome
01[19:58] <DVDCCHN[IRON|SoS]> he is a good man
[19:59] <VonDroz|Gre> he is
[19:59] <VonDroz|Gre> you know he vehemently believed the US should imperialize in order to prevent a "black republic" in cuba?
01[19:59] <DVDCCHN[IRON|SoS]> yes
[19:59] <VonDroz|Gre> he firmly believed that africans would be a scorge to world politics
[20:00] <VonDroz|Gre> i like persepective
[20:00] <VonDroz|Gre> anyways
[20:00] <VonDroz|Gre> this convo
[20:00] <VonDroz|Gre> hm
Session Close: Thu Mar 18 20:02:09 2010

Session Start: Thu Mar 18 20:02:22 2010
Session Ident: VonDroz|Gre
[20:02] Session Ident: VonDroz|Gre (Coldfront, DVDCCHN[IRON|SoS])
[20:02] <VonDroz|Gre> how about this
[20:02] <VonDroz|Gre> can we talk tomorrow
[20:02] <VonDroz|Gre> i will not drink
[20:02] <VonDroz|Gre> we can begin anew[/quote]

Tyrants rise and tyrants fall. No one rules forever.

Edited by Jonathan Brookbank
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[quote name='citizenkane' date='31 March 2010 - 03:10 PM' timestamp='1270062584' post='2242215']
[20:09:05] <%Citizenkane> What has GGA got to do with it anyway?
[20:09:12] <Jonathan_Brookbank[GGA]> GGA has nothing to do with it.

Pretty much sums up my feelings about this.
[/quote]

The truth is still the truth no matter what lips it comes from.

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[quote name='citizenkane' date='31 March 2010 - 03:10 PM' timestamp='1270062584' post='2242215']
[20:09:05] <%Citizenkane> What has GGA got to do with it anyway?
[20:09:12] <Jonathan_Brookbank[GGA]> GGA has nothing to do with it.

Pretty much sums up my feelings about this.
[/quote]

As a government member of an alliance still in the war fighting on Gre's side, would this be any different if I had posted this? Or really, any MK government member(Not that they would). No, it would remain the same. You're using the "You have nothing to do with it so just shut up" excuse because you can't actual argue against JB.

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I hope that the new Gramlins will come to their senses and realize the folly of their choice to rescind terms that were already agreed to. Also doesn't this break their codex? Or are they now saying they don't mind having to take unconditional surrender? :ph34r:

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[quote name='shaneprice' date='31 March 2010 - 03:14 PM' timestamp='1270062848' post='2242222']
Although it is a violation of their own codex, I am hardly one to talk in this regard.[/quote]

Yeah, really.

[quote]With that said, the only thing that the Gremlins is assuring is that they will be on the losing end of the next war.
[/quote]

..how?

[quote]Why did you make a topic and blog post of the exact same thing? [/quote]

Didn't get enough attention in his blog.

Edited by Penkala
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[quote name='Penkala' date='31 March 2010 - 03:13 PM' timestamp='1270062804' post='2242221']
What happened 'tomorrow', while he wasn't drunk? Or do you not want to show those because it'd hurt your portrayal of Gremlins as evil?
[/quote]

From their public channel today:

[quote][12:15:55] <LintWad> So, RamirusMaximus|GRE, if the tables were turned you would accept these terms?
[12:16:05] <RamirusMaximus|GRE> LintWad: we haven't offered any terms.
[12:16:19] <Egwaterboy61> XD
[12:16:36] <LintWad> Ok, so let's back up then. Unwilling to talk peace, unless IRON surrenders unconditionally.
[12:16:44] <LintWad> What is unconditional surrender, and what is the point?
[12:16:57] <Matthew_PK[GRE]> LintWad, we're not making a "deal"
[12:17:00] <Egwaterboy61> Ram, either protect them if you don't think they will get attacked, or let them have *some* mil not decomed so they can protect themselves.
[12:17:14] <RamirusMaximus|GRE> What part of "unconditional surrender" don't you understand? I'll try to explain if you're confused, but I need to know the source of the confusion.[/quote]

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[quote name='Penkala' date='31 March 2010 - 03:13 PM' timestamp='1270062804' post='2242221']
What happened 'tomorrow', while he wasn't drunk? Or do you not want to show those because it'd hurt your portrayal of Gremlins as evil?
[/quote]

State of mind is no excuse. Actions are done regardless of your inebriation. Further, from my brief encounter with GRE government earlier today, it seems the demands ring true. Of course RamirusMaximus is always welcome to enter this thread and prove me wrong.

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[quote][19:44] <VonDroz|Gre> i don't want you to think i'm an asshat, bc i'm not a dick, i'm a nice guy, i'd love to chat with you, this isn't about feelings though, just straight business[/quote]

Why the heck would someone try to say such things in a talk about terms? Just do the business and don't start talking about feelings and just accept that when you go to war the other guy isn't going to like you, if you can't handle that don't attack them.

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Gremlins will never be the same as the old Gremlins. Some like that, some don't, but to each his own.
Gremlins are not the same alliance it use to be; end of story. Like I said, whether that is a good thing or a bad thing is up to you, but I don't understand offering terms then withdrawing them when both parties accepted.
Someone can feel free to intervene at this point.

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I also don't understand why would an alliance demand unconditional surrender, either. Nobody has ever done that. Nobody has ever accepted that, as far as I know. You have to be thoroughly defeated, beaten to nothing but a bloody pulp to even consider accepting that. Even then, while it might apply in RL, nobody will ever accept that in this game.

Especially not with Grems three offensive wars, all led by a 440 NS guy.

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These logs didn't really address any point about this that I was actually confused about. There isn't really any useful info here at all tbh.

I have to say I don't really get why gga is posting this either. Makes you look sort of like that ninja leader guy that posted the early terms (I'm really bad at names).

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[quote name='Wad of Lint' date='31 March 2010 - 03:17 PM' timestamp='1270063006' post='2242230']
State of mind is no excuse. Actions are done regardless of your inebriation. Further, from my brief encounter with GRE government earlier today, it seems the demands ring true. Of course RamirusMaximus is always welcome to enter this thread and prove me wrong.
[/quote]

Well of course it is. If I told you tonight to go do something inappropriate with yourself since there will be no terms, then said "hmm, that may have been a jerk move. I'm kinda drunk. I'll talk to you tomorrow," then talked to you and said "OK, here's the terms" it [i]would[/i] be quite different. That doesn't appear to be the case here.

While I can understand the Gremlins' frustrations (that you guys continually line up against us at every opportunity, no doubt trying to turn the balance of power so that you can once again practice your crushing of anyone who doesn't bow to whatever you say), I can't really condone this. *shrug*

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