The New Grämlins

[Lusitan]

[quote name='tobbogon' date='01 April 2010 - 03:09 AM' timestamp='1270087755' post='2242801']
I'm just a lowly templar, I am not as informed as you all wish i would be, anything i were to tell you would not be correct. I pretty much know as much as you do. But i feel like i need to contribute to the thread, because it makes me all sad that people are bashing us. Yeah, some stupid stuff was done, and by no means am i condoning it, but srsly, you guys are just lumping me and all the other dudes together with Ram, whom you all dislike. (Kind of like that show The V. Where Ryan Nichols is a 'visitor' posing as a human, but he isnt like all the other visitors, who are out to use and destroy human life, he's part of the Fifth Column, some rebel group. Not saying I'm part of a rebel group working to destroy The Gromlins. This analogy has gotten far too... yeah. Just saying, dont lump us all together.)


^More nonsense for your hungry mouths
[/quote]

I am pretty sure the admiration for Ramirus and his excellent political moves has been expressed publically before. Makes me wonder why Grämlins elected him again if they didn't want to be lumped all together.

[DemonSpawn]

[quote name='tobbogon' date='31 March 2010 - 09:09 PM' timestamp='1270087755' post='2242801']
I'm just a lowly templar, I am not as informed as you all wish i would be, anything i were to tell you would not be correct. I pretty much know as much as you do. But i feel like i need to contribute to the thread, because it makes me all sad that people are bashing us. Yeah, some stupid stuff was done, and by no means am i condoning it, but srsly, you guys are just lumping me and all the other dudes together with Ram, whom you all dislike. (Kind of like that show The V. Where Ryan Nichols is a 'visitor' posing as a human, but he isnt like all the other visitors, who are out to use and destroy human life, he's part of the Fifth Column, some rebel group. Not saying I'm part of a rebel group working to destroy The Gromlins. This analogy has gotten far too... yeah. Just saying, dont lump us all together.)


^More nonsense for your hungry mouths
[/quote]

I don't think I honestly know anyone in Gremlins to actually dislike. And im personally not trying to lump you, or any other regular member in how I feel about this situation. I personally think that your leaders have jumped off the deep end with this grand idea of theirs.

[WarriorConcept]

[quote name='tobbogon' date='31 March 2010 - 10:09 PM' timestamp='1270087755' post='2242801']
I'm just a lowly templar, I am not as informed as you all wish i would be, anything i were to tell you would not be correct. I pretty much know as much as you do. But i feel like i need to contribute to the thread, because it makes me all sad that people are bashing us. Yeah, some stupid stuff was done, and by no means am i condoning it, but srsly, you guys are just lumping me and all the other dudes together with Ram, whom you all dislike. (Kind of like that show The V. Where Ryan Nichols is a 'visitor' posing as a human, but he isnt like all the other visitors, who are out to use and destroy human life, he's part of the Fifth Column, some rebel group. Not saying I'm part of a rebel group working to destroy The Gromlins. This analogy has gotten far too... yeah. Just saying, dont lump us all together.)


^More nonsense for your hungry mouths
[/quote]

You seem like a good guy. I wish you luck in trying to have an alliance that better represents your beliefs.

[Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz]

[quote name='Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz' date='01 April 2010 - 11:58 AM' timestamp='1270087073' post='2242782']
Well the Gra members posting here don't seem to want to share that information with us, so yeah, nobody seems to know for sure what it is that they want IRON to do exactly.
[/quote]

[quote name='tobbogon' date='01 April 2010 - 12:09 PM' timestamp='1270087755' post='2242801']
I'm just a lowly templar, I am not as informed as you all wish i would be, anything i were to tell you would not be correct. I pretty much know as much as you do.
[/quote]
Ah, so it seems that the Gra members posting here don't seem to know what disarmament and unconditional surrender means either

[Matt Miller]

[quote name='tobbogon' date='31 March 2010 - 08:55 PM' timestamp='1270086914' post='2242781']
The one IRON nation in my range not in peace mode is Matt Miller who currently has his slots full, and if asked, Gre would gladly supply a nation or three to fill up his slots, i know we have in the past months.
[/quote]
I have a slot opening up at update so I eagerly await your personal declaration. Although I seriously doubt you'll be there. Also, for the love of admin don't send Marc Aurel for a fifth round, I don't have the heart to tell him that if spying away someone's last 5 nukes doesn't work the first 40 times you try it, it probably won't work the 41st either.

Also I'd like to say thanks to all the patient folks out there that are currently caught up in this situation we all find ourselves in due to some ego-tripping. To that end, I'd also like to say sorry to Ramirus for not acquiescing to your never-ending demands for IRON tech farmers post-Karma. I'd like to hope that has nothing to do with where we currently find ourselves, but crazier things have certainly happened around here.

[tobbogon]

[quote name='Dochartaigh' date='31 March 2010 - 09:11 PM' timestamp='1270087890' post='2242804']
unfortunately, Ram and your gov represents Gremlins. if you don't like what they are doing get them outta gov.
[/quote]

Judi elections are happening now, madspartus and Ram are running. We'll see how it goes.

[KagetheSecond]

[quote name='bigwoody' date='31 March 2010 - 07:16 PM' timestamp='1270088148' post='2242807']
On a related note, for those of you just now realizing the G-RAM-lins codex was always a joke and never really held any weight beyond a PR stunt...
[/quote]
Going to have to disagree with you. Bob J, LM, Hell Angel etc all believed in that and were stand up guys. There are still a few people in Gram that probably still believe in it, but the Gov does not.

[Timtacious]

[quote name='tobbogon' date='31 March 2010 - 08:09 PM' timestamp='1270087755' post='2242801']
I'm just a lowly templar, I am not as informed as you all wish i would be, anything i were to tell you would not be correct. I pretty much know as much as you do. But i feel like i need to contribute to the thread, because it makes me all sad that people are bashing us. Yeah, some stupid stuff was done, and by no means am i condoning it, but srsly, you guys are just lumping me and all the other dudes together with Ram, whom you all dislike. (Kind of like that show The V. Where Ryan Nichols is a 'visitor' posing as a human, but he isnt like all the other visitors, who are out to use and destroy human life, he's part of the Fifth Column, some rebel group. Not saying I'm part of a rebel group working to destroy The Gromlins. This analogy has gotten far too... yeah. Just saying, dont lump us all together.)


^More nonsense for your hungry mouths
[/quote]

Nah, I like you, and Omas too :3

But seriously, this is stupid (also, I guess I should read the OWF more)

[King Louis the II]

I might be naive, but is difficult for me to believe that GRE position will be sustained if it is not in agreement with all the alliances that are fighting TOP/IRON.

[tobbogon]

[quote name='Matt Miller' date='31 March 2010 - 09:19 PM' timestamp='1270088377' post='2242816']
I have a slot opening up at update so I eagerly await your personal declaration. Although I seriously doubt you'll be there. Also, for the love of admin don't send Marc Aurel for a fifth round, I don't have the heart to tell him that if spying away someone's last 5 nukes doesn't work the first 40 times you try it, it probably won't work the 41st either.Also I'd like to say thanks to all the patient folks out there that are currently caught up in this situation we all find ourselves in due to some ego-tripping. To that end, I'd also like to say sorry to Ramirus for not acquiescing to your never-ending demands for IRON tech farmers post-Karma. I'd like to hope that has nothing to do with where we currently find ourselves, but crazier things have certainly happened around here.
[/quote]
Lol, no i wont be there. It would be irresponsible of me to take up a slot that could be filled by someone with more tech and military/mil wonders. (boy do i sound cowardly)

And this just reminded me of something i read earlier, i believe Ejay said that most, if not all, Gremlins had respect for their IRON opponents in Karma. This is true for the most part in this war as well, I have respect for every IRON nation i've fought, and every Old Guard nation i've fought. I'm sure those who fought Zenith and DAWN as well also have a level of respect for their opponents.

I think this will be my last post in this thread, i feel like i've interacted with the OWF too much for one day.

[Matt Miller]

[quote name='King Louis the II' date='31 March 2010 - 10:25 PM' timestamp='1270088697' post='2242823']
I might be naive, but is difficult for me to believe that GRE position will be sustained if it is not in agreement with all the alliances that are fighting TOP/IRON.
[/quote]

I tend to agree with you here. However, here we all sit still tossing nukes at each other day after day. I personally could do it forever, but I think this war has certainly run its course for both sides. I look forward to an actual conclusion soon rather than simply words. However, asking DAWN and IRON for unconditional surrender is not productive in the least.

[quote name='tobbogon' date='31 March 2010 - 10:27 PM' timestamp='1270088841' post='2242826']
Lol, no i wont be there. It would be irresponsible of me to take up a slot that could be filled by someone with more tech and military/mil wonders. (boy do i sound cowardly)

And this just reminded me of something i read earlier, i believe Ejay said that most, if not all, Gremlins had respect for their IRON opponents in Karma. This is true for the most part in this war as well, I have respect for every IRON nation i've fought, and every Old Guard nation i've fought. I'm sure those who fought Zenith and DAWN as well also have a level of respect for their opponents.

I think this will be my last post in this thread, i feel like i've interacted with the OWF too much for one day.
[/quote]

Perhaps [url="http://www.cybernations.net/nation_drill_display.asp?Nation_ID=182148"]this guy[/url] could do it then since he's in range. Unless he's busy captaining the Exxon Valdez or something.

Edited April 1, 2010 by Matt Miller

[Matt Miller]

Edit: Oops, double post.

Edited April 1, 2010 by Matt Miller

[The Big Bad]

[quote name='tobbogon' date='31 March 2010 - 10:09 PM' timestamp='1270087755' post='2242801']
I'm just a lowly templar, I am not as informed as you all wish i would be, anything i were to tell you would not be correct. I pretty much know as much as you do. But i feel like i need to contribute to the thread, because it makes me all sad that people are bashing us. Yeah, some stupid stuff was done, and by no means am i condoning it, but srsly, you guys are just lumping me and all the other dudes together with Ram, whom you all dislike. (Kind of like that show The V. Where Ryan Nichols is a 'visitor' posing as a human, but he isnt like all the other visitors, who are out to use and destroy human life, he's part of the Fifth Column, some rebel group. Not saying I'm part of a rebel group working to destroy The Gromlins. This analogy has gotten far too... yeah. Just saying, dont lump us all together.)


^More nonsense for your hungry mouths
[/quote]

If you do not want to be lumped in with the garbage currently running your alliance into the ground then I suggest you get rid of them. Until then they represent you and they now have your alliance headed for very very bad future. As much as I would love to be on the opposite side of any debate with JB in this rare case he has pointed out that your alliance is lead by some of the least competent leadership on all of Planet Bob. Fix it or face what they bring upon you.

Edited April 1, 2010 by The Big Bad

[dvdcchn]

[quote name='Matt Miller' date='31 March 2010 - 09:28 PM' timestamp='1270088865' post='2242828']
Perhaps [url="http://www.cybernations.net/nation_drill_display.asp?Nation_ID=182148"]this guy[/url] could do it then since he's in range. Unless he's busy captaining the Exxon Valdez or something.
[/quote]


i see what you did thar...

[ChairmanHal]

[quote name='bigwoody' date='31 March 2010 - 10:06 PM' timestamp='1270087557' post='2242799']
Wow Gremlins, you got pretty much the whole world to hate you by offering surrender terms among the most ridiculous ever conceived.

My hat is off to you, that is a massive achievement.
[/quote]

Almost tops "eternal tech farm" but not quite...

Look, Gramlins is clearly interested in war, not peace (perhaps until the bitter end) and they have little concern what happens to IRON. I don't see how that's anything different than the current policy of a host of other alliances still engaged with IRON and its allies.

If Gramlins put an offer on the table and pulled it back, then the sanctions they will receive depend entirely on their allies and the world community as a whole once (and if) the war ends.

[KingEd]

[quote name='dvdcchn' date='01 April 2010 - 03:36 AM' timestamp='1270089349' post='2242835']
i see what you did thar...
[/quote]

lol, agreed. Good one Matt.

[Lord Fingolfin]

[quote name='KagetheSecond' date='31 March 2010 - 10:21 PM' timestamp='1270088477' post='2242818']
Going to have to disagree with you. Bob J, LM, Hell Angel etc all believed in that and were stand up guys. There are still a few people in Gram that probably still believe in it, but the Gov does not.
[/quote]


I'd second that as well. I think that when it first came out Gramlins had members who truly believed in its contents. It still stands are pretty much the ideal model for any alliance to build itself off of, a white light. Seems like Gramlins has failed par on the course now though

[Shimmer]

[quote name='Delta1212' date='31 March 2010 - 10:00 PM' timestamp='1270087201' post='2242786']
Aw, Steelrat deleted? I liked him.
[/quote]
Well, I don't blame him. I recommend you guys take Matthew's advice as you are not Grämlins and be renamed The Gärbage Can. You seemed to have lost your way a long time ago, and now it's showing. I bet the MHA eternal treaty feels pretty good doesn't it?

[Penkala]

[quote name='Matthew PK' date='31 March 2010 - 08:58 PM' timestamp='1270083515' post='2242706']
Discussions should proceed between a victor and a defeated party.
[/quote]

Why? It's clear who the victor is. Why do you need them to expose themselves without knowing what comes next before you'll give them terms? Just give them the terms now and skip the BS.

[Dochartaigh]

[quote name='bigwoody' date='31 March 2010 - 09:16 PM' timestamp='1270088148' post='2242807']
On a related note, for those of you just now realizing the G-RAM-lins codex was always a joke and never really held any weight beyond a PR stunt...
[/quote]

this is just plain false. i was in Gre when that was passed and i for one absolutely believed in it as did almost all Gre at that time. it was not a Joke at that point and was taken very seriously. it just seems that Gre has many newbies to their alliance who know little about the Codex and what it means and most of those that are left that were there when the Codex was first signed, seem to hold it in little regard.


[quote name='tobbogon' date='31 March 2010 - 09:20 PM' timestamp='1270088424' post='2242817']
Judi elections are happening now, madspartus and Ram are running. We'll see how it goes.
[/quote]

kewl. i wish madspartus luck. while i was probably one of the few Gre that got along with Ram, his ego usually gets in the way of his intelligence.

[Ejayrazz]

[quote name='Venizelos' date='31 March 2010 - 08:17 PM' timestamp='1270081007' post='2242631']
ITT JB tries to feel important

peace negotiations between two alliances are between those two alliances and i dont see how you have anything to do with them.


also, zomg GGAers talking about NPO and what a big bad guy it is/was.
[/quote]

He doesn't need your permission to speak about what he believes in. This whole "you're not involved, don't post about it!" thing is nonsense. This was originated in 06 because some people would post things they truly had no idea about, this is not the case in this situation. These are public halls for a reason, I suggest getting use to them.

[quote name='Delta1212' date='31 March 2010 - 10:00 PM' timestamp='1270087201' post='2242786']
Aw, Steelrat deleted? I liked him.
[/quote]
Unfortunately so my friend.

I would suggest reading the next bit of information.





As for the codex, unfortunately I was afk from this world when they were signed in, but they were created because we never wanted our ideals changed. We represented something which we were happy to be apart of, the old Gremlins were very likable characters; even if you didn't always agree with us. We would argue out points, but we wouldn't be ignorant. Some wished to make sure the Gremlins never became ignorant during warfare, thus the Codex was established. For those saying The Codex is a PR stunt, really, Gremlins had nothing to PR; during that time they were generally liked and carried itself nicely. So why was it established? To prevent something like this smearing the image of an alliance formed with respect and dignity. A system will always have its failures and though the Codex is pretty clear, people try to e-lawyer anything for their own benefit. The Gremlins firmly believe what they are doing is acceptable because The Codex doesn't specially state what is and isn't considered aggressive/defensive. Even so, it shouldn't matter; you join to protect your allies (Treaty or not), you exit with your allies.

[Lord Fingolfin]

[quote name='Penkala' date='31 March 2010 - 10:54 PM' timestamp='1270090435' post='2242850']
Why? It's clear who the victor is. Why do you need them to expose themselves without knowing what comes next before you'll give them terms? Just give them the terms now and skip the BS.
[/quote]

+1 for Mr. Penkala, wasn't expecting to ever do that

[Coursca]

[quote name='Matthew PK' date='31 March 2010 - 07:59 PM' timestamp='1270079949' post='2242612']
Words that amount to "HEY LOOK AT US WE'RE RELEVANT AND WE CAN PULL A BIG STUNT TO GET ATTENTION!"[/quote]

The unfortunate reality, Matthew, is that it is not all about The gRAMlins. Holding up peace the way in which you are is weaksauce, plain and simple. I offer the following diagram to help demonstrate my point:

[img]http://www.motifake.com/image/demotivational-poster/0906/egotistical-demotivational-poster-1245993783.jpg[/img]

[Hakim]

Wow, 17 pages and I found myself agreeing with people I have not agreed with in the past.

I am at a loss for words on how to coherently say what is on my mind.

[WalkerNinja]

editing

((Damn, just lost 10 minutes of typing, I'm not doing it all over again, so here's the part that meant the most to me))

[quote name='Coursca' date='31 March 2010 - 03:32 PM' timestamp='1270067523' post='2242340']
I also must implore my former comrades in IRON and TOP to be patient as well -- I am certain this is being worked on and you guys will finally be able to relax for the first time in months. At least, I hope so...
[/quote]


Coursca, I'm going to apologize for this in advance because you're a very good friend and because this is going to sound like a low blow.


No one that marches under Grub's orders gets to ask for anything from us, much less tell us how to behave.

Edited April 1, 2010 by WalkerNinja