No More celtic Promise

[King MyLife]

nah,

they should just play a game of team deathmatch on Modern Warfare 2 and settle it the old fashioned way shooting fake bullets and guns at each other

Dude thats just depressing...

[Iotupa]

Lots and lots of words.

The fact of the matter is this, shaneprice: you haven't changed. Hell, you yourself are still holding on to a grudge against me from something that happened well over two years ago and prior to you even being IN the GGA. Maybe once you actually show you have changed people will invite you to the "party" on the other side. Truth be told, it's not any better over there right now than where you guys are now anyway, but still...no one will believe you have changed until you actually change.

Edited December 11, 2009 by Jonathan Brookbank

[The Big Bad]

Or maybe they rushed our forums and spent months trying (successfully might I add) to build a friendship and earn respect from most of our members who were hesitant.

Anyway, good luck to ODN and GGA in the future.

Oh don't think for a moment its a one way street. ODN knows where they stand on Planet Bob. They showed a little leg and went out a courting until someone bit. ODN is not stupid either. You all are using each other. Nothing wrong with that unless one party screws over the other. C&G is rolling the dice as they have nothing to loose, ODN is going the only place that would give them one last chance to turn things around. Maybe they will stop history from repeating itself. If they want to survive they have to.

[Soccerbum]

I haven't read anything since page 12 / haven't had the time to read anything since page 12, but I'm a little bit ... disappointed that the thread got to page 23. I can't wait to read it all later.

[Ardus]

Oh GGA, you've made me the happiest boy in the world. You shouldn't have.

[Goldie]

Post Karma, the GGA promised to change it's Foreign Affairs Policy considerably...I myself made that promise from my own mouth to many of you here.

You kept your MADP with IRON. Everyone got tired of waiting for the change I guess.

In recent weeks that zeal has been tempered by a sobering thought...the triumvirate realized that it would never matter how much we changed or what we did...the "other side of the fence" was simply not a party that we would ever be invited to period.

You have a MADP with IRON. That probably turned off anyone on the "other side of the fence" who you wanted to talk to.

Lets face it, MADPs are strong treaties. Why would someone on the "other side of the fence" (I'll just cut through the quotes and refer to them as ex-Karma alliances) want to treaty you, if they know for a fact you will not honor it if/when the time came to defend against NPO again, based on the fact that IRON would probably roll with. You cant speak out of both sides of your mouth on something as polarizing as that, 'we want to change, we want to show everyone our new foreign policy direction, and befriend and hopefully fight with you guys next time', vs. 'we have a treaty with IRON that we will honor over our treaty with anyone else, virtually guaranteeing anyone who wasn't on our side during the Karma War could expect us to not honor any treaty you sign with us'.

Once you understand how contradictory your 'foreign policy' was, then perhaps you can move forward from it and actually change your alliance's direction. For a stronger sphere I would like to see you prosper, but god damn man, the status quo is not working out for you is it. Maybe its time to shake things up a bit, no?

Edited December 11, 2009 by goldielax25

[Rickyman1984]

Post Karma, the GGA promised to change it's Foreign Affairs Policy considerably...I myself made that promise from my own mouth to many of you here. In recent weeks that zeal has been tempered by a sobering thought...the triumvirate realized that it would never matter how much we changed or what we did...the "other side of the fence" was simply not a party that we would ever be invited to period.

This attitude makes me sad. I get how you could feel that way, change is hard as hell, particularly when the GGA name is as poisoned as it is. But to say you'll never be accepted by old enemies is a self fulfilling prophecy and not what the GGA needs.

[Mr Havok]

You kept your MADP with IRON. Everyone got tired of waiting for the change I guess.

You have a MADP with IRON. That probably turned off anyone on the "other side of the fence" who you wanted to talk to.

Lets face it, MADPs are strong treaties. Why would someone on the "other side of the fence" (I'll just cut through the quotes and refer to them as ex-Karma alliances) want to treaty you, if they know for a fact you will not honor it if/when the time came to defend against NPO again, based on the fact that IRON would probably roll with. You cant speak out of both sides of your mouth on something as polarizing as that, 'we want to change, we want to show everyone our new foreign policy direction, and befriend and hopefully fight with you guys next time', vs. 'we have a treaty with IRON that we will honor over our treaty with anyone else, virtually guaranteeing anyone who wasn't on our side during the Karma War could expect us to not honor any treaty you sign with us'.

Once you understand how contradictory your 'foreign policy' was, then perhaps you can move forward from it and actually change your alliance's direction. For a stronger sphere I would like to see you prosper, but god damn man, the status quo is not working out for you is it. Maybe its time to shake things up a bit, no?

Wow in this whole post about GGA you didnt name them once (oops i forgot where you said they wouldnt honor treaties, good work their Nostradamus in predicting the future, do you know the lottery numbers also) instead you choose to call out IRON (3 times) and NPO (1 time)

Sad really very sad

[Rayvon]

EDIT: OK, guys, we really need to cut this out. In the last week I've found myself agreeing with and/or defending Bilrow, other NPO members, the GGA, and now The Big Bad. Please stop making me do this.

Bite your tongue

GGA, this is a good move. Next best move, drop the other bit of Orange. I can say there's only one little bit of sexiness over in Orange, the ones who haven't brought about drama in here.

Shane - I have a little more faith than some have. You just have to see that tangle of fishing line wrapped around your ankle in the water and cut it.

[Pingu]

From: The Right Honourable the Lord Price of Whitehall

To: The Citizens of Planet Bob

I have watched this thread with a bit of sadness, again debating if I should offer my input or just remain silent on the subject. My memories wander back to just after the Karma War. The Grand Global Army had faced it's first defeat at the hands of the Allied Armies of Karma. The GGA lay completely destroyed, and to this day has not recovered the same status that it once had. Slowly, after gaining our footing, we started making friends. It all started with MASH...a former enemy turning into an MDP partner in a very short amount of time. ODN was there in those days too offering what ever support it still had left to a destroyed people left to anguish and suffer for the sins of our past, perceived or otherwise.

Over time, both alliances gained there sense of direction again and began seeking new friendships. In turn we lost some old and strong ones...especially Valhalla. It was the price that we had to pay. ODN proved particularly suited to helping rebuild, especially Arsenal who was determined as ever to do what he could. In the end, however, alliances between different groups on this great planet cannot be based on the personal friendships of the leaders involved. There must be a true commitment to each other's direction with the knowledge that the while you may be on two different paths, you were walking to the same destination. The issue of the ODN treaty was a thorny one for both sides. It simply became necessary for the leaders of both the GGA and ODN to realize that while friendship was still possible, remaining allies was most likely not in the best interests of either.

<snip>

I still do not see a day where ODN and GGA will ever oppose each other on the field of battle. I pray that I will never see such a day...my only hope is the understanding among the alliances of Bob, that once in a while you can be friends, even when you are not allies. What the reasons are for this treaty cancellation are of no moment. It does not matter that a treaty died, but only that the spirit of friendship it fostered lives on.

This is an account of the road to this cancellation and a vision of what lies in store for GGA and ODN with which I can sympathize. I am glad ODN was able to help GGA rebuild, and regret that our paths go different ways. But they do. It is important that we part as friends.

[Goldie]

Wow in this whole post about GGA you didnt name them once (oops i forgot where you said they wouldnt honor treaties, good work their Nostradamus in predicting the future, do you know the lottery numbers also) instead you choose to call out IRON (3 times) and NPO (1 time)

Sad really very sad

I disagree (obviously). I'm not calling out IRON or NPO in that thread at all, and do not see what I said that could be interpreted as such (reading comprehension failure on your part it seems), I am merely saying that why would alliances on the "other side of the fence" take GGA's claims seriously when they 1) have not made a whole lot of effort other than talking about changing to change, and 2) scare off any prospective suitors with the MADP to IRON.

[Thizzland]

Good luck to; ODN, GGA and IRON.

[shahenshah]

You have a MADP with IRON.

GGA and IRON actually have MDoAP. Since all your argument is based on MDAP, I'll not go further.

Edited December 11, 2009 by shahenshah

[ironchef]

GGA and IRON actually have MDoAP. Since all your argument is based on MDAP, I'll not go further.

Oh and dont forget the sexy non-chaining clause that was added for your pleasure and ours.

edit: to add the lub

Edited December 11, 2009 by ironchef

[erikz]

When is this topic actually going to deliver?

[shahenshah]

Mind you non-chaining only if either use an 'optional' clause! Dont get your hopes high rogues

[potato]

Well they have only changed in public as that is part of the tactic to get ODN to not cut and run if things get hot. Everyone else bashes ODN in public, MK and company do a 180 and defend them and hope that is enough to get them to follow through on their treaties. In private you might find the opinion of ODN has not changed but, for the public and ODNs consumption they will say whatever they have to. Its a smart move and I see nothing wrong with it. They really have nothing to loose, ODN has nowhere else to go.

You sound like ChairmanHal.

[Beauty]

This is extremely dumb. Do you guys even know what your fighting about? GGA having a treaty with an alliance that they really like and are good friends with. Is that some sort of crime? Just because other people dont like your friend you cant be friends with them? Okay and anyways your also arguing about GGAs past. This is the future. People Change. Get over it.

[Cataduanes]

Or maybe they rushed our forums and spent months trying (successfully might I add) to build a friendship and earn respect from most of our members who were hesitant.

Hesitant was not the word, it took alot of hard work for us to gain a semblance of a relationship with MK and we had to overcome some well rooted misgivings among many Shroomsters . And when the time comes we will back up those efforts in deeds not only words for the obvious reason; this is our last chance for redemption (that and Potato will personally spank me if we screw this gig up ).

And if that proves to be not enough for the critics then so be it for ODN is striving for its once mistreated collective self respect and not to appease the haters.

Edited December 11, 2009 by Cataduanes

[Haflinger]

You kept your MADP with IRON. Everyone got tired of waiting for the change I guess.

Oh wow, looks like people are STILL not reading treaties. Good to know VE's joined the in crowd.

Green and Orange Squishy Stuff.

Article II: Mutual Aggression

Neither alliance is obliged to partake in assistance in offensive wars, all military or monetary support is strictly to be decided by each sovereign alliance, yet both are encourage to support each other when needed.

According to their wikis, neither IRON nor GGA have any MADPs.

[Timmmehhh]

GGA has a MDAP with Echelon.

[Goldie]

GGA and IRON actually have MDoAP. Since all your argument is based on MDAP, I'll not go further.

Yep, I was mistaken. I can't remember what source I used as information, but it had GGA-IRON listed as a MADP.

[Locke]

Oh wow, looks like people are STILL not reading treaties. Good to know VE's joined the in crowd.

Green and Orange Squishy Stuff.

According to their wikis, neither IRON nor GGA have any MADPs.

The wiki is wrong then, as Timmehhh is correct; it was re-signed just recently. Hey look, I have another article to make now.

Edited December 11, 2009 by Locke

[flak attack]

You sound like ChairmanHal.

Nah, you can trust him. TBB is clearly an expert on MK-ODN relations.

[Style #386]

You know I get this, as should everyone else. ODN is at the point where no one trusts them to honor a treaty if they think they are going to loose a war. ODN is also not well liked. ODN pretty much has one chance to continue and thats because C&G has tossed them a life line. ODN will do anything to keep that line from slipping away. C&G have nothing to loose if ODN bails. I am sure they are not counting on them, then they don't loose anything and if ODN fights they may not be able to much but they can at least take some of the heat of the alliances that can fight. All that being said ODN will not have any treaties that C&G see as a possible escape route for ODN. Every attack and insult against ODN plays right into what C&G wants. ODN can not afford to bail on another ally or they know they will get rolled just on principle, thats what C&G is counting on. The constant hate from all corners of Planet Bob only puts ODN on notice that running away will not be allowed again. ODN will be shamed into battle and all the haters will be the ones that force them. Ironic.

Christ, mate, you're getting a little paranoid over there. I have considerably more faith in CnG's motives than you seem to. We have been allied to Vanguard, for instance, since long before the NoCB War. I think you'll agree that an awful lot has changed since then, no?

On November Nov 27 2009, GGA was asked another question in regards to our foreign affairs this question was answered by me on the same day. For GGA gov this seemed like the end of a tedious 3 week long QnA session asked for by ODN. We came to your forum, answered all your questions in our secure embassy and felt we had shown you GGA was a true ally and there was no need for further questioning of our loyalty or honor.

Then on Dec 7 2009 07:59 AM there is another post left for us from Pingu that our treaty is up for review again. Dec 8 2009, 11:51 AM Shaneprice posted the cancelation notice on the ODN forum in our embassy.

This is just ridiculous. There have been two treaty reviews. The first was several months ago when I attempted to upgrade our treaty. Given the (presumably) positive connotation of that action, I presume that we can discount it, leaving us with a single treaty review. What on earth are you talking about?

We did not cancel the treaty with ODN because GGA knew ODN was going to cancel on us. For all we knew the treaty would pass another review and would be safe till the next ODN circus senate came to town.

The "circus senate" (classy, that) pertained, again, to the upgrade, so this part is irrelevant.

We canceled this treaty because we got sick of our honor as an ally being called into question every time you have an election,

Your honour was never called into question.

we got sick of being asked “hypothetically” if we would remain neutral in a war involving our other allies,

Gracious me, those evil ODNers, asking about their ally's foreign strategy!

we got sick of ODN being so needy we had to check the embassy on your forum every day to see what you had to !@#$%* about next.

Yes, embassy activity is quite a curse.

Our reasons for canceling this treaty had been given to you, no place in what I read did I see it was due to ODN possible cancelation on us. Our allies had been given the same cancelation notice that was given to you. They know the reason we canceled.

I am a fan of simple math. Are you aware that 2+2= 4?

I thank you members of IRON for defending our honor in this issue. From what I have seen from ODN in this thread, the respect we had for you was a one way street. I can now say I’m truly happy to see this dead treaty put to rest.

I honestly hope that you're not as thick as this implies.

I have no words that can express my current amazement, the blast I'm having reading this and this continuous laugh i'm having since page 1.

Sure is good to be in a cold war!

Yes, apparently.