Biggest alliance mess up of all time?

[Cataduanes]

Order of Feudalistic Security declaring a separate war on Arciel of GATO during the GATO-1V war, in return got GATO to make an actually DoW on OFS, and OFS surrenders and disbands to GATO, all while GATO is still fighting One Vision.

^ oh man this has to be the one, i can remember all too clearly the wry smile OFS's action provoked among us in GATO's ranks....especially as we had 1V breathing down our collective necks bigtime

Otherwise ODN has a couple i would cite as mess ups of the first degree; the failure to enter GW2 burns in my mind as a major one while the cancellation on Polaris last August remains a hotspot of shame and regret....if i could only turn the clock back

[Meer Republic]

This is not the way to get people to agree with your already horrendous posting.

I bet your Norwegian is awesome.

[Venizelos]

edit: it has already been mentioned

Edited June 12, 2009 by Venizelos

[hizzy]

Yes. They had it out for NPO. The Karma War didn't materialize from the ether when NPO declared on OV.

I know you probably don't believe me, but if NPO had not attacked OV, or if they had waited 48 hours (or, at least until the talks were concluded), Karma would have fallen apart.

[Geopet]

I know you probably don't believe me, but if NPO had not attacked OV, or if they had waited 48 hours (or, at least until the talks were concluded), Karma would have fallen apart.

Hizzy lies and, quite frankly, he is the biggest alliance mess up of all time. And to the guy who called me a Karma brown-noser in a pm, take THIS!!! B)

edit:

adding hizzy and hannah love for the clarity

Edited June 12, 2009 by Geopet

[hertugen]

I bet your Norwegian is awesome.

what?

I bet Buller's Danish is awesome, but his posts are horrible.

Good to see you put a gag on him.

Also: OFS still takes the cake.

Edited June 12, 2009 by hertugen

[Bob Janova]

Yes. They had it out for NPO. The Karma War didn't materialize from the ether when NPO declared on OV.

It didn't, because those alliances that were worried they'd find themselves on the wrong end of an NPO/Hegemony attack had been getting together a contingency plan since a couple of weeks before when there were rumours of such a thing happening and we wanted to win if we got attacked. Since OV were clearly the target for two or three days that meant we could plan the first counters beforehand. There would not have been a war without Hegemony starting it, though – several Karma alliances would not have agreed to enter an aggressive war, and several neutral alliances would have been bound to defend the hegemony.

So I guess one of the biggest mistakes of all time was alliances like TPF and NPO giving in to the sort of paranoia espoused in your post, and thinking that it was a 'hit them before they hit us' type situation when it wasn't. This led you to the rash actions which have dropped you out of a very good position.

[SpiderJerusalem]

I bet your Norwegian is awesome.

I bet mine is

[hizzy]

It didn't, because those alliances that were worried they'd find themselves on the wrong end of an NPO/Hegemony attack had been getting together a contingency plan since a couple of weeks before when there were rumours of such a thing happening and we wanted to win if we got attacked. Since OV were clearly the target for two or three days that meant we could plan the first counters beforehand. There would not have been a war without Hegemony starting it, though – several Karma alliances would not have agreed to enter an aggressive war, and several neutral alliances would have been bound to defend the hegemony.

So I guess one of the biggest mistakes of all time was alliances like TPF and NPO giving in to the sort of paranoia espoused in your post, and thinking that it was a 'hit them before they hit us' type situation when it wasn't. This led you to the rash actions which have dropped you out of a very good position.

How many times I've tried to explain this very thing.

Honestly, one day when this is all well in the past and logs start popping up from what went on in Karma's channel, everyone's gonna be like "wow, I can't believe we got our asses kicked by that."

I'm not even exaggerating. I logged off IRC and went to bed thinking we're all boned, and praying for a miracle that could rally Karma together and unify everyone... I woke up and found that NPO had attacked OV and I realized God really granted me my one b-day wish. Then I felt like a retard for wasting my 1 b-day wish on cybernations, and instead of having hot strippers to wake up to, I got the Karma War.

[Haflinger]

Yes. They had it out for NPO. The Karma War didn't materialize from the ether when NPO declared on OV.

Some of 'em did. Others were just looking out for their own asses.

The war would probably have happened anyway, but it would have been very different had NPO not hit OV when they did.

[SynthFG]

Some of 'em did. Others were just looking out for their own asses.

The war would probably have happened anyway, but it would have been very different had NPO not hit OV when they did.

Would have been a very different war

Everybody was expecting a building of tensions into the summer, with something kicking off July/August time,

Instead Moo tried to pre-empt things, missread the inteligance he had to have had and shot himself, his alliance and his allies in the foot

[Pingu]

If I missed it, I apologize, but I don't think I've seen mention of Lord Swampy delivering Legion into NPO's hands. That was one almighty $@-up.

[Big Z]

How many times I've tried to explain this very thing.

Honestly, one day when this is all well in the past and logs start popping up from what went on in Karma's channel, everyone's gonna be like "wow, I can't believe we got our asses kicked by that.

Seriously. Both pre-war logs in the Karma channel and during the war logs.

[Khyber]

Would NPO have been screwed down the line if they didn't attack OV anyways? Their diplomatic shield was falling apart and would only have gotten worse if they backed down there. At least this war could have brought in enough allies to reach a stalemate or at least get decent terms.

This is the thing that confuses me to be honest. I believed and still believe that should they have not pushed the issue, which was minor, they would have resigned to not being top dogs in CN politically. This would have been a loss of face and lossing more allies, but in the end it didn't matter as much. Waiting for the right opertunity is far wiser then jumping into the fire, which I honestly think is what they did. Everyone knew reps would be high if they lost.

I think that if they decided not to be aggressive they may have found something in the end, they could have worked on bettering their image, changing course on some issues, and slowly getting out of the rut they were in. That said NPO was known as an aggressive alliance, and that meant that people that felt threatened by them needed to take them out, so even if they didn't provok a war someone may have gone to them.

It just seemed that during the lead up to the war however NPO was making all the wrong moves, which was not what most people that sided with the NPO in the past were used to. Even during the war I don't know why they crapped on the NpO. If I was them I would have made sure my ties with the NpO would have remained as they were or strengthened.

To be honest I don't know what they were thinking. And I still believe that should they have been attacked they would have had many alliances on the sidelines like TOP, MHA and NpO come to their defense, where if they attacked they pretty much garenteed they would not get their help.

[hizzy]

Seriously. Both pre-war logs in the Karma channel and during the war logs.

Yo, I'm just emphasizing how NPO literally sealed the deal on the whole issue and helped to unify Karma... but now you're just making us all look like incompetent monkeys.

Unfortunately, you're not lying.

[Alfred von Tirpitz]

I'm not even exaggerating. I logged off IRC and went to bed thinking we're all boned, and praying for a miracle that could rally Karma together and unify everyone... I woke up and found that NPO had attacked OV and I realized God really granted me my one b-day wish.

This. The thought was pretty much, we are wading in elbows deep to an $@! kicking, till the time NPO attacked OV in middle of peace talks. The the thought was "why would they do this to themselves as well as to the mediators, thats plain dumb"

So yeah, biggest snafu in CN : NPO attacking OV and bringing together the numbers needed to make the Karma war a reality as we know it. Instead of as we could have known it.

[Rush Sykes]

Some will call me biased, and perhaps they are correct...no...check that, they are totally correct. I put the AE DoW on FINAL up there with the rest. AE was solidly growing, decently respected, then that debacle. Look where they are now.

[astronaut jones]

No, I'm pretty sure they're spite-filled.

because you know me better than i know myself, right?

[thaone]

Yo, I'm just emphasizing how NPO literally sealed the deal on the whole issue and helped to unify Karma... but now you're just making us all look like incompetent monkeys.

Unfortunately, you're not lying.

If the words league/Aegis would be used one more time I was really planning to kill myself.

Yes people it was so terrible.

Still the Karma war was won by the side who made the least mistakes, I think you won't get more even numbers at the beginning of a war in CN.

[Tromp]

It was a loose coalition from the start, and everybody knew it. Which is also why some people paniced at times, because one false move could make the coalition fall apart. Instead, OV was attacked during negotiations. Heh, still, it was a fun time.

Karma may not be perfect now, but as Hizzy already said, the moment NPO really attacked OV we were more united than ever before.

[Zombie Glaucon]

because you know me better than i know myself, right?

Don't you get it? They know you better than you know yourself and couldn't possibly know anything about the alliances you're talking about (the ones the like, at least).

This is because they're special, and you're not.

[joracy]

NPO hitting OV like that was probably fairly effective at moving people in the middle/undecided/blahblahblah you get the point towards Karma, well perhaps improving Karma's resolve. It didn't turn karma into an entirely unified bloc, nor would not doing it have stopped the war, maybe only delay it, but I'd still say it had some effect.

[kingzog]

I bet your Norwegian is awesome.

On behalf of Nordreich I ask: "What's Norwegian?"

Anyway, yes, there is much truth in saying that the attack on OV was a terrible mistake, but it was merely the last in a long series of blunders.

As has been pointed out already, the NPO's treaty shield was already crumbling at the edges. That the NPO decided to speed this process up by kicking at it from the inside is strange, yes, but it merely accelerated a process that had already begun.

Also, everything I know about Karma suggests that it would have come to nothing if the war had been delayed by even a few days. The 'ongoing anti-NPO conspiracy theory' is pretty ridiculous. If anything, there was an attempt by a large number of alliances to walk away from them, but nothing more.

[Doitzel]

How many times I've tried to explain this very thing.

Honestly, one day when this is all well in the past and logs start popping up from what went on in Karma's channel, everyone's gonna be like "wow, I can't believe we got our asses kicked by that."

I'm not even exaggerating. I logged off IRC and went to bed thinking we're all boned, and praying for a miracle that could rally Karma together and unify everyone... I woke up and found that NPO had attacked OV and I realized God really granted me my one b-day wish. Then I felt like a retard for wasting my 1 b-day wish on cybernations, and instead of having hot strippers to wake up to, I got the Karma War.

You went to bed?? I confess that it all but consumed me. I couldn't believe that we'd staked so much on you guys and we were watching it slip away... it was nerve-wracking. I couldn't believe people were actually going to sit by and bob their heads to NPO's tune again. One of the best decisions ever made was probably to keep me out of there. I'm a bit ashamed to admit just how pissed off I was that you guys were bungling the whole thing, and then NPO nuked itself in the foot.

Even now that the event is a good distance in the past, the enormity of that screw-up is totally unmatched in CN history. So poetic, too.

[Delta1212]

That was a fun query where you were raging about publically tarring and feathering the people responsible for making us lose. I think you went on for a good half hour describing how you were never going to let anyone forget whose fault it was.