Joint Echelon, MCXA, NPO, NADC, and UBD Announcement

[Ghostlin]

Clearly this was one of the most well thought out and executed economic blocs in the history of cybernations. It's goals were clearly established, and blue unity was achieved as soon as it first set sail. The Blue sphere would be in shambles today if it wasn't for Agora.

Yes, but I didn't think the objective of the bloc was to unite blue in OPPOSITION to it. Then again, I could be wrong.

Yes I was, and there was a few other queries I got pulled into to keep Echelon from coming up with some more weak reason to go to war because of hot head Tela's looking for war, when diplomacy was the proper option to resolve it.

Tela and Echelon fabricating wars?! How shocking. Next you're going to tell us they tried to draw a neutral alliance kicking and screaming into war...

Try quoting the whole thing, genius.

Your tears are delicious. Seriously, you're spinning more than a bottle at a sweet sixteen party.

[SirDog]

I think I must be in the minority, as I'm getting a bigger kick out of all these folks who suddenly speak with a boldness that was nowhere to be found but months earlier. To hell with the bloc - the reactions are where its at.

There were 30 pages of people speaking for and against it in the official announcement alone. The reactions started from day one.

[hizzy]

I think I must be in the minority, as I'm getting a bigger kick out of all these folks who suddenly speak with a boldness that was nowhere to be found but months earlier. To hell with the bloc - the reactions are where its at.

Just what I was thinking... here I am reading the first page of "about times"s, and the 2nd page of "good riddance"s, and the 3rd page of "red on blue sucks"s, and I started wondering where the hell this majority was 6 months ago.

Losing Agora just means losing one more source of comedy.

[HeinousOne]

Well, having been in NPO during the time of the Agora announcement I can clearly remember it garnering alot of negative attention. Yes, there have been plenty of issues that people were only bold enough to bring up lately but Agora was not one of them.

[KanaX]

Good riddance, this never worked out properly.

Edited June 7, 2009 by KanaX

[Sal Paradise]

If only you had held more recruiting contests.

I think I must be in the minority, as I'm getting a bigger kick out of all these folks who suddenly speak with a boldness that was nowhere to be found but months earlier. To hell with the bloc - the reactions are where its at.

This is one of those few occasions when Archon's trademark 'sit back in cynical judgement' misses its mark. This bloc has been nearly universally panned since its inception. Indeed, some have expressed their hatred for Agora and its unscrupulous signatories with such zeal as to have their relations with their allies suffer.

Though on further reflection of that last sentence, I suppose I'm being a tad bit unfair. There is at least one person in this thread whom I find particularly amusing to see publicly lambasting this treaty. And with such vitriol too. My my.

[Undabaningi Rasticus]

Reachwind, you don't have a clue what you're talking about. Assington flat out lied to all of BLEU when asked about evidence of NADC spying, and he lied to his membership as well.

BLEU trusted Polaris when they told us that the war was justified. We didn't find out the truth until after the fact.

Posted on Blunity in the main war thread before the fact.

We have no caught spy attacks or tangible evidence but a source has 100% guaranteed to me that NADC is involved. I can't reveal anything about it but I wouldn't be pushing for war if I didn't trust the information completely.

I'm sure we will probably get some flak for this and it is somewhat unavoidable. I shall endeavour to remind those that troll us the danger they put themselves in.

Spin it how you like Tela, you were fully informed.

[Angrator]

You're contributing nothing to this discussion.

Actually he was. Dilber said the exact same thing to a Voxian. And now what are you doing? Oh yeah, repeating what someone else said before. That makes you.... a ....? Go ahead. I'll let you fill in the blanks yourself. I'm 60% confident you can make the mental leap.

And ps. We're free! The unhappy silent majority can now speak without getting crushed for being "warmongers".

[Proko]

I think I must be in the minority, as I'm getting a bigger kick out of all these folks who suddenly speak with a boldness that was nowhere to be found but months earlier. To hell with the bloc - the reactions are where its at.

If you remember Watchman's hilarious diversion posts, you'll remember Agora announcements were usually met with derision from the greater blue community and its friends.

[hizzy]

If you remember Watchman's hilarious diversion posts, you'll remember Agora announcements were usually met with derision from the greater blue community and its friends.

Oh that was such fun! Someone needs to make that guy spokesperson of something again. Just give him a podium, it's a gold mine.

But seriously, I think what Archon was referring to was the rest of Planet Bob's communities who supported Agora for no other reason than because they were tied to NPO.

At least, that's certainly how I read it, but that could have been partly due to the fact that it's what I had in mind so it could have skewed things a little.

[AlmightyGrub]

I think I must be in the minority, as I'm getting a bigger kick out of all these folks who suddenly speak with a boldness that was nowhere to be found but months earlier. To hell with the bloc - the reactions are where its at.

Nice backhander there... I still don't support the Karma agenda

[uaciaut]

I don't think Agora was worth jack !@#$ anyway, especially not without NpO's support, so i really don't understand all the hate for something that's worthless to begin with D:

[Choader]

There were many people and to an extent alliances who called Agora the dog it was from day one. The sheer ludicrousness of it's form was enough to bring out a little honesty in folks.

[Vol Navy]

A lot of the replies from Polar members and former Polar members in this thread remind me of the replies in the thread from other alliances' members when OoO was cancelled.

Circle of life on Bob.

[Proko]

Echelon, the Multicolored Cross-X Alliance, the New Pacific Order the North Atlantic Defense Coalition, and the United Blue Directorate hereby announce their withdrawal from the Agora Accords, and the permanent termination thereof. On this 6th of June, 2009 the Agora Accords have become a part of history.

Where is ICENI?

[Gears of War]

Agora was never going to amount to anything without wider support from ex-BLEU alliances and was obviously just a NPO power grab, so on the one hand good riddance and on another I'm really going to miss the train wrecks that Agora announcements usually ended up as.

[Chaoshawk]

Agora. Sounds like something you drink to OD on. Glad everyone didn't drink it.

[hizzy]

Where is ICENI?

Excellent question.

Did ICENI remove themselves in private at an earlier time, or did the circle of friends forget one of their own? (protip: I just gave you guys an awesome excuse)

[Alterego]

I'm surprised this lasted this long considering how other non mixed team team blocs have crumbled.

[The Parasite]

Sorry to see this economic bloc finally go down. It was a good try though and it's thanks to Agora I have a stable trade circle. Anyhow, a good decision from the NADC senate to withdraw Agora has been inactive for too long.

[Electron Sponge]

I think I must be in the minority, as I'm getting a bigger kick out of all these folks who suddenly speak with a boldness that was nowhere to be found but months earlier. To hell with the bloc - the reactions are where its at.

Yeah, there's no way that this statement could apply to you yourself within recent months. No way at all, Mister "Karma Incarnate". Save the snarkiness for people who actually deserve it.

[Solidus117]

Did ICENI remove themselves in private at an earlier time, or did the circle of friends forget one of their own? (protip: I just gave you guys an awesome excuse)

From what I gather, ICENI excused themselves from active participation in Agora (due to internal ICENI-related matters) while not explicitly withdrawing themselves as a signatory. Thus, being in this state of suspension, ICENI absolved itself of voting rights.

At least that's what I remember. I could be wrong (someone please clarify? )

[Mussolandia]

Like many said before, Archon, there were people speaking out against this crap long before you became the savior of the world.

Agora was a symbol of the NPO's greatest mistake. I celebrate its death, along with that of the crony alliances that took part in it.

[Assington]

You know Tela, for months I've been hearing about how I had a secret agenda or I lied or I had no evidence. Since your slanderous accusations continue to be prevalent (perhaps it is all Echelon has left?) I've decided to set a few things straight. You constantly talk about how I did this or that, and yet this is the first I've ever heard of it. There are rumours of some screenshot proving your story, where is it? I've got plenty of logs and screen shots. It's time for a little show and tell.

Back in the day before the BLEU war, I was approached by a reliable source claiming NADC nations were responsible for an organised round of spy attacks against Polar nations. We didn't know who but the source was legitimate and trustworthy and so I informed my government at the time and BLEU that NADC had been spying on us. At this point I did not have anything to prove this save the word of my source, which I trusted completely. I asked BLEU to do the same and heard no objections.

During the war I constantly communicated with NADC and made it clear that the quickest way to a resolution would be to reveal the spy operation and hand over the perpetrators. A lot of names flew about but nothing particularly concrete surfaced. Despite that, my source assured me there was NADC involvement with the spy attacks against us. Eventually I was approached by Bismarck from NADC claiming Charles had willingly accepted Polar war guides. Here is our conversation:

Session Start: Sun Feb 03 15:22:08 2008

Session Ident: Bismarck[NADC|Gov][15:22:08] Session Ident: Bismarck[NADC|Gov] (Coldfront, Assington)

[15:22:08] <Bismarck[NADC|Gov]> You there?

10[15:22:44] <Assington> Yes

[15:23:16] <Bismarck[NADC|Gov]> Ok.

[15:23:49] <Bismarck[NADC|Gov]> So, let's go over this again.

10[15:23:54] * Assington nods

[15:24:27] <Bismarck[NADC|Gov]> What all do I need to do?

10[15:25:31] <Assington> If you can provide me with the proof that Charles was involved in the theft of a polar war guide then you will get immunity and the other specified terms from Polar

09[15:26:11] * Looking up Bismarck[NADC|Gov] user info...

09[15:26:31] * Looking up Bismarck[NADC|Gov] user info...

[15:26:38] <Bismarck[NADC|Gov]> And is this going to continue the destruction of the NADC?

10[15:27:05] <Assington> If it turns out to be legit, quite likely.

10[15:27:33] <Assington> I'm not saying terms won't be reached eventually, but this would extend the expected duration of the war

[15:27:47] <Bismarck[NADC|Gov]> Are you trying to drag it on?

[15:27:52] <Bismarck[NADC|Gov]> I hope so...

[15:27:59] <Bismarck[NADC|Gov]> They deserve it.

10[15:28:25] <Assington> I'm inclined to agree with you, theft of our property is not looked upon kindly

10[15:28:45] <Assington> I'll PM you the little immunity document I drew up

[15:28:58] <Bismarck[NADC|Gov]> On the CN forums?

10[15:29:07] <Assington> yeh

10[15:30:42] <Assington> sent

[15:31:23] <Bismarck[NADC|Gov]> Ok, I got it.

10[15:31:49] <Assington> Alright, well if that is to your satisfaction then we can get this sorted

[15:33:14] <Bismarck[NADC|Gov]> Ugh. I keep having connection problems.

[15:33:57] <Bismarck[NADC|Gov]> If my computer craps out, I'll get it to you tomorrow, ok?

[15:34:17] <Bismarck[NADC|Gov]> I need to find the file.

10[15:35:23] <Assington> Alright... as soon as you can, if possible since I want to get onto Charles about this

[15:36:01] <Bismarck[NADC|Gov]> I hope you'll ZI him.

10[15:36:32] <Assington> We'll see. Either way he won't get away with this

[15:37:28] <Bismarck[NADC|Gov]> So what else do you have on him now?

10[15:39:22] <Assington> Nothing that points to his direct involvement in anything

[15:39:41] <Bismarck[NADC|Gov]> So you think Farung was really behind the nukes?

10[15:40:02] <Assington> He was behind some of them, not all of them

10[15:40:39] <Assington> There was some operation within NADC hitting our nukes, but it was a lot smaller than we thought as farung's little operation exposed

[15:41:53] <Bismarck[NADC|Gov]> So do you want screenshots or will a copy and paste work?

10[15:42:24] <Assington> screenshots would be best, any irc logs is fine to be copy/pasted though

[15:42:49] <Bismarck[NADC|Gov]> Will a screenshot of the guide on the forums work?

10[15:43:26] <Assington> Yes, that would be good. Anything in particular that links charles to acquiring it?

[15:44:19] <Bismarck[NADC|Gov]> Not that I can find that is damning. I'll double check my logs though.

10[15:44:35] <Assington> Also, anything that may highlight how it was taken

[15:53:32] <Bismarck[NADC|Gov]> http://img117.imageshack.us/img117/8189/warguidegv9.jpg

[15:53:38] <Bismarck[NADC|Gov]> Here's the table of contents.

[15:53:52] <Bismarck[NADC|Gov]> I'll PM you a copy and paste of the full thing on the CN forums.

10[15:54:07] <Assington> ok

[15:55:19] <Bismarck[NADC|Gov]> Sent.

[15:55:31] <Bismarck[NADC|Gov]> Take a look at that and let me know if it is good enough.

10[15:57:13] <Assington> That doesn't seem to be the war guide you initially PM'd me

[15:57:28] <Bismarck[NADC|Gov]> There's one other on the NADC forum.

[15:57:39] <Bismarck[NADC|Gov]> I'll send you that as well, although it is a minor one.

[15:58:07] <Bismarck[NADC|Gov]> A friend was stupid enough to trust me with his password and didn't change it.

[15:59:18] <Bismarck[NADC|Gov]> I don't exactly have any logs from Charles about him stealing it.

[15:59:25] <Bismarck[NADC|Gov]> He was onto me for a while I think.

10[16:00:34] <Assington> brb

[16:02:11] <Bismarck[NADC|Gov]> http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/6884/warguide2qz2.jpg

10[16:03:55] <Assington> back

[16:04:05] <Bismarck[NADC|Gov]> I sent you the other guide.

10[16:05:13] <Assington> Neither of these is the polar guide you initially PM'd me

[16:05:32] <Bismarck[NADC|Gov]> Those are the only two on the NADC forum.

10[16:05:55] <Assington> Then where did you get the polar guide from?

[16:06:15] <Bismarck[NADC|Gov]> I guess now might be a good time to let you know that I've been screwing you over the whole time. I've got a friend in your alliance, higher up than you might think.

[16:06:41] <Bismarck[NADC|Gov]> All of this information I've been feeding you, has been for my revenge.

[16:06:46] <Bismarck[NADC|Gov]> And now I've gotten it.

10[16:06:56] <Assington> How so?

[16:07:08] <Bismarck[NADC|Gov]> Those !@#$%^&* at the NADC are in tatters.

10[16:07:27] <Assington> You haven't actually changed anything though

[16:07:36] <Bismarck[NADC|Gov]> Haven't I?

[16:07:43] <Bismarck[NADC|Gov]> There's no way they'll re-elect Charles.

[16:08:06] <Bismarck[NADC|Gov]> Who, by the way, was too stupid to think up the things I've been telling you.

10[16:08:14] <Assington> Wasn't that going to happen before this war anyway?

[16:08:52] <Bismarck[NADC|Gov]> But can't you see how fun this has all been for me?

[16:09:07] <Bismarck[NADC|Gov]> I've gotten to toy with one of the most powerful alliances in CN.

10[16:09:38] <Assington> Unless you were behind the initial attacks by the NADC, you haven't forced our hand once

[16:09:40] <Bismarck[NADC|Gov]> Charles was never going to be removed by power if it weren't for you.

[16:09:49] <Bismarck[NADC|Gov]> Well, I've got news for you.

[16:10:01] <Bismarck[NADC|Gov]> I was.

10[16:10:17] <Assington> Well, aren't you a cheeky little bugger

[16:10:28] <Bismarck[NADC|Gov]> Charles was too stupid to realize that I was doing it.

10[16:10:37] <Assington> All of this was just to get rid of Charles?

[16:10:40] <Bismarck[NADC|Gov]> And by the time he realized it, it was too late for that son of a !@#$%*.

[16:10:41] <Bismarck[NADC|Gov]> Yeah.

[16:10:43] <Bismarck[NADC|Gov]> It was.

10[16:11:12] <Assington> I don't suppose you're going to tell me who your source in Polar is?

[16:11:14] <Bismarck[NADC|Gov]> Well, also I wanted to see if I could do it.

[16:11:25] <Bismarck[NADC|Gov]> Sources my friend, sources.

[16:11:32] <Bismarck[NADC|Gov]> All I can say is be careful who you trust.

[16:12:00] <Bismarck[NADC|Gov]> You'd be surprised how deep the rabbit hole goes.

10[16:12:01] <Assington> All you needed was a membership mask to get that guide, it's not exactly a high level infiltration

[16:12:38] <Bismarck[NADC|Gov]> Maybe. Perhaps I only had a member or perhaps one of your government members had a bone to pick with the NADC and wanted to go to war with them.

[16:12:53] <Bismarck[NADC|Gov]> Would you really be that surprised if one of them hated the NADC that much?

10[16:13:12] <Assington> I don't think so. If we really wanted to crush NADC for no reason we could have done so and no one would have stopped us

[16:13:35] <Bismarck[NADC|Gov]> They would have needed to go through you to do it though.

[16:13:46] <Bismarck[NADC|Gov]> At any rate, my source is mine.

[16:14:03] <Bismarck[NADC|Gov]> I guess I'm done here. Maybe I'll create a new nation and come back and play again.

[16:14:30] <Bismarck[NADC|Gov]> Have a nice day.

10[16:15:01] <Assington> Perhaps. NADC is likely to survive due to this revelation though

[16:15:18] <Bismarck[NADC|Gov]> I didn't really care about the NADC members.

[16:15:27] <Bismarck[NADC|Gov]> I just wanted to get back at Charles.

[16:15:32] <Bismarck[NADC|Gov]> I doubt he will be elected.

10[16:15:43] <Assington> What did he do to you to motivate all this?

[16:16:29] <Bismarck[NADC|Gov]> Ever since I came back I've been planning to take control of the NADC.

[16:16:37] <Bismarck[NADC|Gov]> Charles, and his lackeys, stopped my coup.

[16:16:43] <Bismarck[NADC|Gov]> It almost worked.

10[16:17:11] <Assington> That it did

[16:17:36] <Bismarck[NADC|Gov]> Then he cast me aside despite all the work I'd done, and all I had was a chance for revenge.

07[16:18:52] <Bismarck[NADC|Gov]> Goodnight Assington.

10[16:18:59] <Assington> Goodnight

These were posted on the BLEU forums at the time and commonly accept as proof. Not long afterwards we were at peace with NADC.

In hindsight I would not have taken this to war. We acted under the assumption that this was a NADC government action as it was quite large. Bismarck played myself and others for his own agenda and for that NADC suffered. For what it's worth, I sincerely apologise for that. Regardless of such, I'd call that pretty clear proof that there was spying against Polaris, organised by someone that had been NADC government at the time. What do you think Tela, is that another lie?

I never once lied to BLEU regarding this war and I never lied to my own government or membership. Unlike you Tela, I considered the alliances in BLEU to be my friends. If I had issues I brought them to you, as I would have expected you to do. And yet you sit here calling me and Polaris treacherous and the like whilst it was you and MCXA plotting to abandon BLEU in favour of those that would rather see us destroyed. BLEU was never a dictatorship and I never attempted to rule it. If you had an issue, you have no one but yourself to blame for not speaking up. You had vast opportunity to say something and I would have listened. You said nothing and now try to play the innocent party. That doesn't fly. I've got plenty of logs and an entire BLEU forum load of posts to show everyone just how much you empathised with NADC at the time, shall I share those as well?

Now how about you make a post that isn't full of hypocrisy and !@#$%^&*?

Edited June 7, 2009 by Assington

[shahenshah]

Sorry, I havent read the entire thread...anyway..So did BLEU tell NADC what there source was?

Edited June 7, 2009 by shahenshah