Betrayal and Manipulation

[hizzy]

Also, note this section of the logs of my conversation with GGA. Why on earth would Moo say something to the effect of "Just Kidding" after GGA called him on it? Someone is very clearly lying here. I can't see why GGA would lie to me and then approve the logs for publication, so unless I see otherwise, I am inclined to believe that GGA has told me the truth.

Dude, I'm the last guy to defend NPO, but you should probably get the actual logs of the convo rather than someone else's 2nd-hand version.

[Kylliah]

Maybe they did, maybe they didn't. (OOC: I've been offline most of the weekend so I'm not up to date on everything)

But, if they set this up, what exactly were they hoping to gain? We're already protecting them.

I think they got what they set out for. Moo is discredited as reliable, or even sane, and it shows NPO as being instigators in fueling a feud to keep the eyes off them.

[Sal Paradise]

Sal.

Shut up.

You really want to trash so badly that you're giving up any attempt at critical thinking for swallowing any excuse to dump on the NPO?

Sir, I will dump on the NPO with or without an excuse. You've completely misinterpreted everything I've said here as indicated by your ridiculous attempt to paint me as a person that doesn't believe the GGA are scum.

The GGA aren't freacking angels, man. They're as rotten as their masters ever were. You think that just because there's a change of leadership now, when the opportunity for $@!-covering and coup'ing has come across, that suddenly there's going to be some kind of spiritual awakening?

Athens got sucked in by the appeal this presented as propaganda. But the implications of this logdump is simply:

The GGA are lower scum than the NPO ever was. The GGA membership never had a problem with the Green Civil War, or any other atrocity that was committed in the NPO's name. And you think they're suddenly credible?

Oh sweet Lord of ROFL.

Keep trying Chron. You'll make it back out of laughing stock some day.

[Haflinger]

Ironchef told TPF that GGA was getting rolled. TPF tells Moo. Moo tells Ironchef.

Ironchef is then told by Athens that NPO (via TPF via Ironchef) was trying to get them back into the war.

This just hurts my head.

Actually Moo told Shaneprice I think.

Right?

[Matthew Conrad]

Ironchef told TPF that GGA was getting rolled. TPF tells Moo. Moo tells Ironchef.

Ironchef is then told by Athens that NPO (via TPF via Ironchef) was trying to get them back into the war.

This just hurts my head.

That makes it sound like Ironchef was either trying to get his own alliance rolled or was too scared to admit he was the one bluffing. I await for the rest of this saga to unfold.

[Stonewall Jaxon]

Ironchef told TPF that GGA was getting rolled. TPF tells Moo. Moo tells Ironchef.

Ironchef is then told by Athens that NPO (via TPF via Ironchef) was trying to get them back into the war.

This just hurts my head.

Clearly, someone in this circle knows the truth, and he or she is one clever, scheming $@!. Hopefully, his or her identity will be revealed as the public investigates.

[Gopherbashi]

Actually Moo told Shaneprice I think.

Right?

The original logs I saw had Moo talking to Ironchef and Shane. Unless Ironchef told Shane and caused my brain to explode.

[Carter]

Stop pointing the finger at everyone. Take responsibility for your own actions before you no longer have any friends to blame it on.

Are you really that naive? He's not pointing the finger at anyone, everyone is bashing Moo's head in asking him where he got the intel that Athens was attacking GGA, and he says he got it from mhawk. And then mhawk admits he gave the intel to moo, which just adds to Moo's crediblity. How is this pointing the finger and not taking responsibility? You and everyone else are getting so anxious to attack Moo/NPO you're hardly making sense anymore.

EDIT: Clarification.

Edited May 26, 2009 by Carter

[King Srqt]

That makes it sound like Ironchef was either trying to get his own alliance rolled or was too scared to admit he was the one bluffing. I await for the rest of this saga to unfold.

*she

I also believe Ironchef was forced to leave the GGA if I am reading the OP correctly.

[Heft]

Even yourself, good sir, would have to admit, it is rather convoluted to expect that Mhawk and Moo discussed this impending re-declaration of war by Athens with one another, without Mhawk ever once mentioning to him that he got the info from GGA themselves( a fact that, in this case is HUGE, as it would negate the necessity of Moo to go to GGA and warn them about all of this.) This whole package seems to be wrapped way to neatly and tightly. Mhawk has proven, time and again, that he is Moo's most staunch ally. It is unfathomable that at no point when Mhawk was telling Moo all of this, Moo would not say "what is your source" and even more unfathomable that Mhawk would not divulge his source.

I could very easily imagine a conversation that goes something along the lines of "oh !@#$, GGA is going to lose their peace" "Really?" "Yea" "*Moo goes off to GGA to warn them*" I mean, at that level, it's entirely conceivable that Moo wouldn't feel the need to ask Mhawk what his "source" is.

In any case, I wasn't necessarily saying that one or the other is certainly true, as I really don't know and haven't pretended I do. It's just silly to accept the OP at face value when nothing in the OP firmly supports their conclusion (deliberate Moo manipulation) or refutes other, simpler, conclusions (Moo was just mistaken). Again, maybe they're right, but there hasn't really been any solid evidence of it, and there wasn't anything useful to even start analyzing until the last few pages, maybe.

[Rush Sykes]

Dude, I'm the last guy to defend NPO, but you should probably get the actual logs of the convo rather than someone else's 2nd-hand version.

To you, I would pose the same question I posed to Heft. For the actual logs to matter, you would have to....

1) Accept that GGA told Mhawk they were getting rolled by Athens....

2) Accept that GGA knew Mhawk would tell Moo

3) Accept that GGA KNEW Mhawk would not tell Moo who told him

4) Accept that GGA knew Moo would come and warn them

5) ????????

6) PROFIT!

I mean...really? Seriously?

[Hyperion321]

That makes it sound like Ironchef was either trying to get his her own alliance rolled or was too scared to admit he she was the one bluffing. I await for the rest of this saga to unfold.

fixed it for ya.

Edited May 26, 2009 by Hyperion321

[agnews]

I suspect that GGA is again at fault for this entire mess

NPO are ebil but they are not stupid... this is beyond stupid.

any half wit can see that this would come right round and bite them in the butt

thats my take on the suitation

[Feanor Noldorin]

To be honest, I prefer this to how it was a few months prior. Where everyone was too scared to say **** and would have to apologize for the dumbest things.

So we move from one horrible thing to another? Sorry, I'm just not a real big fan of the whole mob mentality. I'd prefer people to show alittle respect and civility. I guess that is asking for alittle to much though, this is Cybernations afterall.

Edited May 26, 2009 by Feanor Noldorin

[Shodemofi-NPO]

Well this is interesting. I guess all I have for you guys (all of you) is a suggestion. Check your facts before using caps lock.

This is indeed one of the wisest things written on Planet Bob. In millenia to come, children will learn about the philosopher Ragashingo and his golden law.

[TehChron]

Also, note this section of the logs of my conversation with GGA. Why on earth would Moo say something to the effect of "Just Kidding" after GGA called him on it? Someone is very clearly lying here. I can't see why GGA would lie to me and then approve the logs for publication, so unless I see otherwise, I am inclined to believe that GGA has told me the truth.

Logs of this "Just kidding" then?

Seriously?

Can you not SEE what we are saying here? I know it seemed too good to be true.

It was.

[Ejayrazz]

Mhawk knew what I was posting. He will be posting the logs of his conversation with ironchef, who apparently set this all in motion.

I used all caps to get their attention; if it had been true that athens had pulled their terms because of their change of government (which I was told would apparently be a violation of their terms) they would, in fact, be back at war. But I knew they would check with Athens. I did not know that it was a set up, however.

How was scrabble?

I am just saying the caps made it look differently than what you perhaps were trying to convey.

As for GGA, I have one question for you:

When did this all happen and why were you so quick to jump the gun and cancel with NPO? (Correct me if I am wrong)

[naamah]

Oh lawdy, we need a throat to choke!! Will it be Moo? Or his best friend Mhawk? Stay tuned for another episode..

[Archon]

So we move from one horrible thing to another? Sorry, I'm just not a real big fan of the whole mob mentality. I'd prefer people to show alittle respect and civility. I guess that is asking for alittle to much though, this is Cybernations afterall.

Well, yeah. I guess I just have low expectations, but I just prefer the best of the worst.

[Rush Sykes]

So we move from one horrible thing to another? Sorry, I'm just not a real big fan of the whole mob mentality. I'd prefer people to show alittle respect and civility. I guess that is asking for alittle to much though, this is Cybernations afterall.

I suppose that depends on your perspective of horrible. When all at once, the masses feel free to finally state their opinions openly, it is human nature that those opinions would be negative opinions of those perceived to have been their oppressor. Looking back at all the 1V, ~ wars of the past, the gang mentality is certainly nothing new.

[hizzy]

To you, I would pose the same question I posed to Heft. For the actual logs to matter, you would have to....

1) Accept that GGA told Mhawk they were getting rolled by Athens....

2) Accept that GGA knew Mhawk would tell Moo

3) Accept that GGA KNEW Mhawk would not tell Moo who told him

4) Accept that GGA knew Moo would come and warn them

5) ????????

6) PROFIT!

I mean...really? Seriously?

Dude, in the last 6 months GGA has done what can only be described as the most face-palm worthy !@#$ in the history of Planet Bob. So, frankly, what you or anyone else think makes logical sense or not has no bearing on what GGA does. I wish I was kidding. But, even all that nonsense aside, it is generally safer to simply get the real logs and make your own interpretations rather than take someone else's word for it which may often be personally skewed.

[Delta1212]

So we move from one horrible thing to another? Sorry, I'm just not a real big fan of the whole mob mentality. I'd prefer people to show alittle respect and civility. I guess that is asking for alittle to much though, this is Cybernations afterall.

I would rather have chaos than civility at gunpoint, which I believe was Archon's point.

[Rush Sykes]

Dude, in the last 6 months GGA has done what can only be described as the most face-palm worthy !@#$ in the history of Planet Bob. So, frankly, what you or anyone else think makes logical sense or not has no bearing on what GGA does. I wish I was kidding. But, even all that nonsense aside, it is generally safer to simply get the real logs and make your own interpretations rather than take someone else's word for it which may often be personally skewed.

That may well be true, and I concede the point. But, this "manipulation" was based on several assumptions that would have to come true...and if they crafted this as well as they did, to come full circle to them as a warning from Moo, while so much of it was based on dumb luck...then by Admin, I want them to pick me some lotto numbers...that is a lucky streak you dont see every day.

[President Obama]

So either GGA really really wanted a plausible reason to cancel on NPO or they got scared by their own shadow?

I'm thinking the first one.

[agnews]

That may well be true, and I concede the point. But, this "manipulation" was based on several assumptions that would have to come true...and if they crafted this as well as they did, to come full circle to them as a warning from Moo, while so much of it was based on dumb luck...then by Admin, I want them to pick me some lotto numbers...that is a lucky streak you dont see every day.

dumb luck?

lol GGA just canceled on NPO

edit Further classification

this is coming from the imperial green colony who kicked one of their government members when he suggested that they remove themselves from NPO

and then they reinstate that member and this happens? i mean common this ain't coincidence

Edited May 26, 2009 by agnews