iamthey Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 Hopefully Pacifica learned a lesson here. When you show mercy to your enemies, it's often paid back with a knife. Topolarella do it properly, get your enemy down, you put them down for a while. This is exactly the price you paid for the fast, white peace last war that so many were against. What are you even talking about? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IYIyTh Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 1) Much as I love members on the other side, the idea that NPO was some sweet merciful entity that waived away any terms on Umbrella et al. is a lie. Been said over and over again. Regardless of these terms or not, the farce that NPO has no desire to ever see its enemies hurt and tried (and failed to enact that) to stop it needs to end. Seriously. 2) The only thing that ends from this entire 10 pages or argument is people promising retribution in the future. That just means that at heart, we are all red in claw and long in tooth and want blood. Argue moralism, but wearing it like a cloak is disgusting as you literally promise revenge. Morality is not revenge, it is exact justice and you are promising unlimited escalation. If people want to "punish" others, you only further prove the point that the decision was valid. The fact that NPO and others pushed for far harsher terms in EQ is what started this cycle. Just because people *failed* in that, doesn't mean it wasn't pushed for. This isn't some new phase in warfare. This is someone doing a limited action with the opposition promising total war in response. The fact you call that justice just shows you the worse for it. Again, I argue not about morality of terms, only that the response should make you ashamed of calling escalation "justice". Call a spade a spade. Just read all of the posts since the beginning, this among others generally encapsulates my own view. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caliph Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 We had finally gotten rid of the damn things and all of a sudden you geniuses decide to bring them back around. So that's fine, I'm off my anti-term high-horse now, you have converted me. So what you are saying is your morality swings with the breeze and only when convenient. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo Uruk Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 Can't have a goddamned peace thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caliph Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 Can't have a goddamned peace thread. We had one until your side started whining about terms. Again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hob Dobson Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 Can't have a goddamned peace thread. Given that it's about NPO, no, not really. The best one can hope for is that at least the anti-Pacifica posts may be somewhat entertaining (or did even that go away with Vox Populi?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baltus Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 Congrats everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MitchellBade Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 We had finally gotten rid of the damn things and all of a sudden you geniuses decide to bring them back around. So that's fine, I'm off my anti-term high-horse now, you have converted me. Must not have been that high of a horse, hope you didn't hurt yourself falling off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo Uruk Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 (edited) We had one until your side started whining about terms. Again. And you responded !@#$%*ing about how oh necessary the !@#$%^&* terms are. Again. Given that it's about NPO, no, not really. The best one can hope for is that at least the anti-Pacifica posts may be somewhat entertaining (or did even that go away with Vox Populi?)Yeah, it's definitely been gone since DH-NPO. I have never been the biggest NPO fan (although I do quite like Farrin's group now), but even in EQ there wasn't anything to brand them as completely evil over. Edited February 13, 2014 by Neo Uruk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crymson Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 (edited) I'll do away with the disingenuous congratulations on peace and fraudulent sportsmanlike well-wishes and---in the interests of actually being authentic---say to NPO that I enjoyed seeing you thoroughly stepped on, but am nevertheless glad to see this war end because the actual combat segment of wars is tedious and repetitive and I can only take so many months of it at a time before I become extremely bored. Have fun with your plotting of revenge. On a slightly related note, congratulations and best wishes on reconstruction to all and sundry alongside whom my people fought. Edited February 13, 2014 by Crymson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorSoul Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 "I have literally nothing productive to say but my e-peen was getting a little flaccid so here goes." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sardonic Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 We had finally gotten rid of the damn things and all of a sudden you geniuses decide to bring them back around. So that's fine, I'm off my anti-term high-horse now, you have converted me. Don't kid yourself, NPO's opening bid for the end of EQ was no tech/aid to umbrella for months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo Uruk Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 Don't kid yourself, NPO's opening bid for the end of EQ was no tech/aid to umbrella for months.If NPO and NPO alone decided terms then you can't really fault them for deciding "hey, we'd rather have white peace actually" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshuaR Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 (edited) I was not going to comment on this thread at all really, until I came across this post. I can assure you those of us who find these terms distasteful WILL absolutely wholeheartedly break this mantra even for alliances that enter only on defensive treaties. Not because we think its the right and proper thing to do, but because true retribution will demand it. Reps were once the way to end a war. It morphed to white peace, you lot have morphed it again. When those who say NPO should have gotten white peace, do something other than give white peace in the future, it will be one of the few times in this games history where it will NOT be hypocritical, it will simply be ... them being what YOU made them. Pacifica just tried to impose a month of extended war on an alliance that already fought the entirety of war in war mode and got crushed, only to see its would be minions refuse to face the remains of Umbrella's upper tier. For one, they're no innocents. For two, you can't pretend that white peace is not only the norm but the only acceptable end to a war when, for example, the alliance hit with terms in this war (based on PM for individual nations, and not even alliance wide) had just attempted to enact purely vindictive excess terms. Whereas even if you believe the front came up with these terms on Pacifica out of a desire to punish, objectively it is very clear that only thirty-one nations of 300+ are part of the terms, and they all saved billions in cash and thousands in tech/land to get it by hiding in PM the entirety of the war. Polar paid 125k tech two global wars ago. I'm sure they'd be happy to explain just how ridiculous it is to compare that to this. There's a difference between specific terms for specific situations and trying to preemptively justify yourself for excess vindictiveness whenever the next opportunity presents itself by pretending that these are horrible and a return to an earlier era that you were responsible for squashing. Nobody else is doing That anymore. Edited February 13, 2014 by JoshuaR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feanor Noldorin Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 Everyone who pushed or supported these terms should(I know they won't), but should feel ashamed for it. I also would like to congratulate TOP for corrupting Polaris so fast, power seems to be the most addicting drug created by men after all. You're welcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willaim Kreiger Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 Everyone who pushed or supported these terms should(I know they won't), but should feel ashamed for it. I also would like to congratulate TOP for corrupting Polaris so fast, power seems to be the most addicting drug created by men after all. Dude, I have no idea what you're on about. Nothing has changed over here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlmightyGrub Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 Dude, I have no idea what you're on about. Nothing has changed over here. D34th never had any idea and still doesn't, nothing has changed with him either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trimm Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 If NPO and NPO alone decided terms then you can't really fault them for deciding "hey, we'd rather have white peace actually" Sure we can, given that they changed their minds because they could not enforce said terms and not out of anything ressmbling altruism. For the record, I am not now, nor have I ever been in favor of these terms. But it is totally disingenuous how many people are decrying these terms given their past histories. Good luck to Pacifica going forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo Uruk Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 Sure we can, given that they changed their minds because they could not enforce said terms and not out of anything ressmbling altruism.For the record, I am not now, nor have I ever been in favor of these terms. But it is totally disingenuous how many people are decrying these terms given their past histories.Good luck to Pacifica going forward.I'm not the one who keeps bringing up the history.And sure, they couldn't enforce terms, but they could also have just kept the war going. EQ apparently "let C&G off" and other such words, and there was constant bitching about C&G's high PM use. So, I mean, NPO could have done what it wanted and still kept C&G intact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trimm Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 I'm not the one who keeps bringing up the history.And sure, they couldn't enforce terms, but they could also have just kept the war going. EQ apparently "let C&G off" and other such words, and there was constant !@#$%*ing about C&G's high PM use. So, I mean, NPO could have done what it wanted and still kept C&G intact. I think you underestimate the level of mistrust in NPO and Brehon in particular that existed in EQ immidiately prior to the end of that war. Frankly, I agree with those who lost in that conflict when they argue that the winning coalition could not have held together much longer than it did. From what I hear, this war has been very different in that reguard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killjoy123 Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 What's done is done. If people feel strongly about what had been done, do something. It NpO did something, now I guess from history its NPOs turn. Anyway I heard this was a peace thread or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killjoy123 Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 What's done is done. If people feel strongly about what had been done, do something. It NpO did something, now I guess from history its NPOs turn. Anyway I heard this was a peace thread or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo Uruk Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 I think you underestimate the level of mistrust in NPO and Brehon in particular that existed in EQ immidiately prior to the end of that war. Frankly, I agree with those who lost in that conflict when they argue that the winning coalition could not have held together much longer than it did. From what I hear, this war has been very different in that reguard.Eh, the difference is in alliances that will or won't allow themselves to be used.Guess which category the "disgruntled" members of the winning coalition this war are in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dochartaigh Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 Everyone who pushed or supported these terms should(I know they won't), but should feel ashamed for it. I also would like to congratulate TOP for corrupting Polaris so fast, power seems to be the most addicting drug created by men after all. Corrupted Polaris? You realize that Polaris has a history of asking for terms right? Eh, the difference is in alliances that will or won't allow themselves to be used. Guess which category the "disgruntled" members of the winning coalition this war are in. Again, another person with these mysterious "disgruntled" members. Calling you out as well mate. Either name names or just admit you are bullshitting. Or talking about IRON/Valhalla. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MitchellBade Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 Eh, the difference is in alliances that will or won't allow themselves to be used. Guess which category the "disgruntled" members of the winning coalition this war are in. The winning category whilst you're in the losing? :V Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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