Perma ZI allowed back in CN ?

[Timberland]

You have the time and energy to complain but not to respond to the PM where I attempted to poach you? What the hell man.
 

 sir william  you know I love you boo :wub:

[Timberland]

This lacks screen shot of your War Search Results...TOR is the least of your worries, or at least it should be.

Talk is cheap if you're feelin froggy leap

[King Cyan]

Personally speaking, I don't see anything wrong with PZI

 

I would advise that it's time to get off and/or dismount that moral high horse then!

 

 

Also, TImberland shall be missed. 

Edited October 16, 2013 by KingCyan

[Ogaden]

PZI is boring, who cares to keep someone at war for that long. It's the stalker ex-girlfriend of the conflict types.

[Steve Buscemi]

I feel bad for the alliance that tries to PZI Timberland.

 

I can't name one war that has been fought to end PZI.

How about forced disbandments?  Or wars over IRC Nick changes?  Or for not joining your bloc?  How about over wars from a spy op by a ghost nation?

[gambona]

This lacks screen shot of your War Search Results...TOR is the least of your worries, or at least it should be.

Yeah Timber, you should really be worried about the mighty military machine of the MHA. :)

[Unknown Smurf]

Brah.

 

Someone PZI-ing you = them keeping you at ZI -- allowed imo. 

 

The PZI of the PZI/EZI that is frowned upon = them keeping you at ZI no matter what on this nation.  So you can make a new nation and stop being ZIed but not apologize/be forgiven for what you did. 

 

And just for the record, EZI = keeping them ZIed no matter what on any and every nation on that IP/they ever re-roll or whatever

[Schattenmann]

I feel bad for the alliance that tries to PZI Timberland.

 

How about forced disbandments?  Or wars over IRC Nick changes?  Or for not joining your bloc?  How about over wars from a spy op by a ghost nation?

Nope, got me; I can't think of any wars to end those things either.

[Delta1212]

The Karma War was fought to replace the Pacifican Hegemony with a C&G/SF hegemony.  Nearly all of the major alliances in Karma practiced PZI, and even more of them maintained treaties with PZI'ing AAs.  VE, the trigger of Karma, kept Ephriam Grey as a pet for a year and awarded him the Viridian Cross and protected him after the disbandment of his AA; he was a prolific PZIer who got off PZIing prominent oppositional figures (such as myself and Walford) without even actually encountering them outside the OWF (and I hope he is dead in a gutter somewhere).

 

The excessive use of PZI by NPO and its allies was a major point in raising the global ire that made Karma possible, but Karma was not fought over PZI, it was fought by PZIers.

It was fought to topple the Pacfican Hegemony. Not enough people gave nearly enough thought to what came next before the war actually started so the post-war was a bit of a mess. It took about 6 months for the SF/C&G grouping to emerge prior to which SF, C&G, Citadel and (to a lesser extent) Frostbite all existed as power centers with some uncertainty over precisely who was going to wind up with or against each other. And the alignment didn't last all that long once it finally did break down, either.

 

The rest of that is basically accurate, though. Frankly, I think Karma was less a victory for ending PZI and more of a very potent demonstration of why large scale use of the practice is ultimately counter-productive. A lot of political power rests on the ability to make implicit or explicit threats of violence. PZI and EZI even moreso are the ultimate threat of force, but once you've used it, you have effectively taken away everything a person has that you can realistically threaten. You've removed your own ability to punish them further, and once you build up a large enough cohort of talented people that you've ensured are your enemies and who no longer have to fear any consequences from you beyond what you're going to do regardless, you wind up hurting yourself more than if you'd given them a beating and then let them go to rebuild and find someplace to keep out of sight for a while. 

[The Zigur]

The rest of that is basically accurate, though. Frankly, I think Karma was less a victory for ending PZI and more of a very potent demonstration of why large scale use of the practice is ultimately counter-productive. A lot of political power rests on the ability to make implicit or explicit threats of violence. PZI and EZI even moreso are the ultimate threat of force, but once you've used it, you have effectively taken away everything a person has that you can realistically threaten. You've removed your own ability to punish them further, and once you build up a large enough cohort of talented people that you've ensured are your enemies and who no longer have to fear any consequences from you beyond what you're going to do regardless, you wind up hurting yourself more than if you'd given them a beating and then let them go to rebuild and find someplace to keep out of sight for a while. 

 

This is a good assessment, although it's more relevant to EZI than PZI. The true purpose of PZI is to force the ruler to abandon his wonders and tech and other national accomplishments, and flee to a new and barren nation. This is a valid strategy especially for rogues.

 

EZI is designed to suppress the ruler himself as you stated, and that is problematic when applied on a large scale. The hegemony EZI'd myself and a few others for being political threats, but when you start EZI'ing everyone you don't like, that's when resistance groups like Vox Populi form. Only Admin himself can "execute" rulers [ooc]for ToS infractions[ooc]; when Vox demonstrated that the Hegemony couldn't truly remove all these enemies for good that's when it became clear that the Hegemony had overreached for the first time ever. Because of Vox Populi the Hegemony's image of unrivaled power was shattered and that was the beginning of the end for them.

 

In my opinion rulers can act as hard as they want... but they are just "cherries" or "FNGs" to me if they haven't been at least PZI'd. I guess only a few of us revolutionaries remain and I find it pretty amusing how people whine about less than a month of war.

 

Edited October 18, 2013 by Tywin Lannister

[xR1 Fatal Instinct]

Talk is cheap if you're feelin froggy leap

Alright eminem.

[Joe Kremlin]

I guess MK disbanded too early. This world needs their brand of justice still.

[Groucho Marx]

PZI isn't gone. NATO and TPF seem to be keeping the practice alive.

[kerschbs]

This is a good assessment, although it's more relevant to EZI than PZI. The true purpose of PZI is to force the ruler to abandon his wonders and tech and other national accomplishments, and flee to a new and barren nation. This is a valid strategy especially for rogues.

 

Get out of here with the above. PZI is stupid and a waste of time. Forcing people to abandon there wonders is ridiculously petty and incredibly counter productive to the health of this game. You, as someone who lost not only their nation, but also their alliance, should recognize this. Burn someones infra if they wronged you, but once you have smashed them into a pulp, it is time to be magnanimous in your victory.

 

And as an aside, you brag that you feel tough because you have fought wars for over a month Tywin? You? Someone who killed an alliance because of the persecution? I would say you should be very careful in your glass house but I doubt you would head my advice either way. 

[manussa]

The attack on our alliance is unprovoked and cowardly. You hit two tiny nations who can not attack you back and all because you and a former member of ours had a fall out. Those two nations or any of us had anything to do with yours and mattthecelt's argument, however you still seem to think a vendetta on two nations that can not defend themselves against you is justified.   Those of us who remain as TOR had nothing to do with or was not involved in the decisions our former leader made.  We were at the time an autocracy.  But I didn't see you build your nation up to the level you could lay an attack on the nation you had a problem with.  This is the only time anyone from TOR will make a comment on our attack as we are looking to the future and not the past.  Thank you all for your time.

[berbers]

PZI isn't gone. NATO and TPF seem to be keeping the practice alive.

Oh man, someone leaked our secret PZI list...

Or we don't have one and this statement is untrue :/

[manussa]

However the perma zi comment was a rash thing to say for that I appologise.

[The Zigur]

Get out of here with the above. PZI is stupid and a waste of time. Forcing people to abandon there wonders is ridiculously petty and incredibly counter productive to the health of this game. You, as someone who lost not only their nation, but also their alliance, should recognize this. Burn someones infra if they wronged you, but once you have smashed them into a pulp, it is time to be magnanimous in your victory.

And as an aside, you brag that you feel tough because you have fought wars for over a month Tywin? You? Someone who killed an alliance because of the persecution? I would say you should be very careful in your glass house but I doubt you would head my advice either way.

 

PZI is a warning to those who would otherwise go rogue. Stripping a ruler of his hard earned wonders sets him back to square one, and is beneficial to the world because it promotes global stability. One can't set a ruler's head on a pike above King's Landing, but this is the next best thing. The magnanimity you describe is weakness, if they didn't bend the knee, and allows your enemy to strike again later and encourages others to follow their warlike path against you. I made that mistake recently with ReytheGreat and was repaid with insolence and deceit.

 

"Fought wars" for "over a month?" Try EZI'd for over a year. One month of beatdown is a light snack to me. 

 

When you play the game of thrones, you either win or you get PZI'd.

Edited October 18, 2013 by Tywin Lannister

[Azaghul]

It was fought to topple the Pacfican Hegemony. Not enough people gave nearly enough thought to what came next before the war actually started so the post-war was a bit of a mess. It took about 6 months for the SF/C&G grouping to emerge prior to which SF, C&G, Citadel and (to a lesser extent) Frostbite all existed as power centers with some uncertainty over precisely who was going to wind up with or against each other. And the alignment didn't last all that long once it finally did break down, either.

 

The rest of that is basically accurate, though. Frankly, I think Karma was less a victory for ending PZI and more of a very potent demonstration of why large scale use of the practice is ultimately counter-productive. A lot of political power rests on the ability to make implicit or explicit threats of violence. PZI and EZI even moreso are the ultimate threat of force, but once you've used it, you have effectively taken away everything a person has that you can realistically threaten. You've removed your own ability to punish them further, and once you build up a large enough cohort of talented people that you've ensured are your enemies and who no longer have to fear any consequences from you beyond what you're going to do regardless, you wind up hurting yourself more than if you'd given them a beating and then let them go to rebuild and find someplace to keep out of sight for a while. 

This is definitely true, but we shouldn't completely ignore the fact that there was a large moralist* upswell against its use that created a great stigma against it.  Even if an alliance wanted to impose it in spite of the factors you point out, the PR nightmere would not be worth it.

 

This started even before Karma.  NPO even saw this and made efforts to stem its use of PZI/EZI before Karma but it was too little too late.  It was on its way out when Karma occured, but Karma definitely cemented its end and show what kind of consequences there could be for those that tried to impose it.

 

*Not using this term in a negative sense.  I was definitely a part of it.

[KingBilly1]

Not that they could enforce it against your extremely tiny overpowered nation which is arguably worse for Bob than a threat of PZI.

I imagine your nation is an annoyance and well there is really nothing to do other than make empty threats unless they had someone within your range with good wonders.

 

it's like a midget on steroids :O

[Hereno]

"Fought wars" for "over a month?" Try EZI'd for over a year. One month of beatdown is a light snack to me. 

 

When you say it like that, you know, EZI doesn't sound like such a bad thing after all.

[The Zigur]

When you say it like that, you know, EZI doesn't sound like such a bad thing after all.

 

Would you like to try it out? Leave your AA and I could see if I can arrange it! ;)

[Hereno]

Would you like to try it out? Leave your AA and I could see if I can arrange it! ;)

 

NSO is a pretty terrible alliance, but I do prefer membership there to EZI.

[Groucho Marx]

Oh man, someone leaked our secret PZI list...

Or we don't have one and this statement is untrue :/

You engage in the same practice when people you tech raid defend themselves.

[Farnsworth]

I thought Planet Bob collectively put Tom Riddle on a communal EZI list...

Edited October 21, 2013 by Farnsworth