An Imperial Decree

[Max Power]

[quote name='Unknown Smurf' timestamp='1356059478' post='3066509']Alliance A sent two aid packages to two rogues attacking Alliance B. The two rogues used to be part of alliance A.
Alliance A did not agree to the amount Alliance B wanted in reparations for that.
Alliance B declares war on Alliance A.

..That, in my mind, makes alliance B the aggressor; even though alliance A gave them the CB.
[/quote]
Alliance A is absolutely the aggressor in that scenario, as long as the rogues launched their attacks with Alliance A's explicit support. In the LSF/NoR war, I believe that to have been the case. They were acting as de facto members of Alliance A regardless of what their AA said, or if not that, certainly as extensions of Alliance A's military might.

[Unknown Smurf]

[quote name='Max Power' timestamp='1356069657' post='3066539']
Alliance A is absolutely the aggressor in that scenario, as long as the rogues launched their attacks with Alliance A's explicit support. In the LSF/NoR war, I believe that to have been the case. They were acting as de facto members of Alliance A regardless of what their AA said, or if not that, certainly as extensions of Alliance A's military might.
[/quote]

Ah. I was working under the assumption that these guys just went rogue and some members were like "hey lets aid them" and then there was no real LSF govt to handle negotiations so they were hit.

[Groucho Marx]

[quote name='Hereno' timestamp='1356067351' post='3066527']
I agree, you're making yourself look incredibly foolish, it would be best for you to shut up and hope nobody remembers.
[/quote]

He isn't making himself look foolish at all. He's calmly explaining what I, if I weren't already familiar to how [i]this[/i] OWF thing works, would assume everyone already knew how MDPs function in comparison to MDoAPs, and what the differences between the two are and how they can be activated.

You can feign ignorance on how treaty obligations work if you like but the reality cannot be changed.

[Haraldson]

[quote name='Rush Sykes' timestamp='1356059517' post='3066510']
Kaskus has 38 nations total.... NSO has 31 nations just in the 30-60K range.... the math does not lie... an alliance with 4x the nations of another alliance... and nearly the same average nation strength... will always have adequate coverage over the smaller alliance. In every range. Its one of the few instances (1v1 alliances wars) where you can pretty much read both sides with just looking at ANS.
[/quote]

You are right. I was perhaps trying too hard to contrive a Best Case scenario in which Kaskus still makes a decent showing.
Time has progressed, and the battlefield has moved on.

[url="http://www.cybernations.net/stats_alliance_stats_custom.asp?Alliance=Kaskus"]http://www.cybernati...Alliance=Kaskus[/url]

The score-card tells the story.

Kaskus leadership needs to accept reality and ask for terms.
That is of course just my personal opinion as a peanut-gallery Corps Commander and does not necessarily reflect Government Opinion.

Edited December 21, 2012 by Haraldson

[magicninja]

[quote name='berbers' timestamp='1356034925' post='3066367']


Screenshots of GOD's MDoAP with Kaskus to make it similar to the INT/LSF scenerio. Also, screenshots of a high ranking GOD official without the power to approve the action but still damn high ranking help plan the operation.
[/quote]

Semantics and !@#$%^&*. When you boil it down both cases are one alliance not activating an optional portion of their treaty because their partner was obviously asking for it. This splitting hairs !@#$ is part of the reason your "side" is dickless and pretty much a joke. You guys don't have the mental capacity for any kind of original thought. It's lame and quite frankly saps all of the fun out of this place. By all means continue playing the fools...it suits you so well.

[berbers]

[quote name='magicninja' timestamp='1356084439' post='3066559']
Semantics and !@#$%^&*. When you boil it down both cases are one alliance not activating an optional portion of their treaty because their partner was obviously asking for it. This splitting hairs !@#$ is part of the reason your "side" is dickless and pretty much a joke. You guys don't have the mental capacity for any kind of original thought. It's lame and quite frankly saps all of the fun out of this place. By all means continue playing the fools...it suits you so well.
[/quote]

It's not the same, a high ranking GOD official did not help Kaskus plan this while implying GOD would support them. Also MDoAP's are considered stronger links than ODP's and you know it, regardless of your attempts to make them equal.

So you are being ignorant either deliberately or because you don't have the mental capacity to know any better.(no u). Also you are MDoAP'd to two of our MDoAP allies, not sure what you are talking about when you say "side"

Edited December 21, 2012 by berbers

[Max Power]

[quote name='magicninja' timestamp='1356084439' post='3066559']
Semantics and !@#$%^&*. When you boil it down both cases are one alliance not activating an optional portion of their treaty because their partner was obviously asking for it. This splitting hairs !@#$ is part of the reason [b]your "side" is dickless and pretty much a joke[/b]. You guys don't have the mental capacity for any kind of original thought. It's lame and quite frankly saps all of the fun out of this place. By all means continue playing the fools...it suits you so well.
[/quote]
The same "side" that includes your MDP partners in TIO, NPO and TPF?

[Hiro Nakara]

[quote name='Walshington' timestamp='1356049276' post='3066465']
[img]http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc427/potbanger/UnknownChristmasWar_zps6f497088.jpg[/img]

[size=5][b]For those just joining the thread, allow me to summarize:[/b][/size]

[size=5][b]1. Kaskus took Unknown Smurf, and placed him in gov't[/b][/size]
[size=5][b]2. NSO did not approve, as he was on ZI list[/b][/size]
[size=5][b]3. NSO attacks Smurf[/b][/size]
[size=5][b]4. Kaskus defends Smurf[/b][/size]
[size=5][b]5. 'Sup GOD?[/b][/size]
[size=5][b]6. No, 'Sup INT?[/b][/size]
[size=5][b]7. NSO is no GOONS.[/b][/size]
[size=5][b]8. Oh yeah? KASKUS is no Legion[/b][/size]
[size=5][b]7. Smurf = Dave 93[/b][/size]
[size=5][b]8. Oh no he's not[/b][/size]
[size=5][b]9. Is so![/b][/size]
[size=5][b]10. Curtis Goodman considers Kaskus the Gem of the Highlands and fully supports their efforts[/b][/size]
[size=5][b]11. You guys have poor quads/no warchest/moon bases[/b][/size]
[size=5][b]12. HA! Is that all you got, quads/warchest and moon base jokes?[/b][/size]
[size=5][b]13. Hiro is %#^& poster[/b][/size]
[size=5][b]14. No he's not, you are simply a &^%$&^nut.[/b][/size]

[size=5][b]Note that we still have opening for the following cliches:[/b][/size]
[size=5][b]- Kaskus/NSO is the new NPO[/b][/size]
[size=5][b]- Peace mode jab[/b][/size]
[size=5][b]- Sad, but necessary[/b][/size]
[size=5][b]- Somebody is bad,for posting in this thread, and they should feel bad[/b][/size]
[size=5][b]- Nope, Chuck Testa[/b][/size]

[size=5][b]In closing, good luck to two alliances who clearly wanted a war. May I remind you both that the [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=114148&hl=iafg"]IAFG is available for hire as mercenaries should either of you decide it is time to put a nail in the other alliance's coffin and end this thing.[/url][/b][/size]
[/quote]

Peace mode joke has already been covered, We're both the new NPO clearly. This is indeed sad but necessary and you are a bad poster for posting in here! And for all other things, NOPE CHUCK TESTA!!!!!

Nice post.

ps, I'm a self professed !@#$ poster and i love it

Sporting a slight hangover

I like the graphics.


Can we maybe keep this on topic about Kaskus NSO? You leaches are ruining my mojo. kkthankxbia

Edited December 21, 2012 by Hiro Nakara

[D34th]

[quote name='magicninja' timestamp='1356084439' post='3066559']
Semantics and !@#$%^&*. When you boil it down both cases are one alliance not activating an optional portion of their treaty because their partner was obviously asking for it. This splitting hairs !@#$ is part of the reason your "side" is dickless and pretty much a joke. You guys don't have the mental capacity for any kind of original thought. It's lame and quite frankly saps all of the fun out of this place. By all means continue playing the fools...it suits you so well.
[/quote]

This comes from the guy who were [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=113468&view=findpost&p=3043269"]publicly advocating[/url] that CnG should cut all ties with DH and to stick to the "side" you are taunting right now. Beyond that your insistence in compare this war with LSF war and The Int fiasco is really amusing, but extremely ridiculous.

Edited December 21, 2012 by D34th

[Ernesto Che Guevara]

[quote name='D34th' timestamp='1356087804' post='3066564']
This comes from the guy who were [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=113468&view=findpost&p=3043269"]publicly advocating[/url] that CnG should cut all ties with DH and to stick to the "side" you are taunting right now. Beyond that your insistence in compare this war with LSF war and The Int fiasco is really amusing, but extremely ridiculous.
[/quote]

Is it amusing, D34th? Is it really amusing? Does his posting really provide you with laughter and entertainment? Do you find yourself needing to change your undergarments because you laughed too hard at his posts?

Is he a comedian to you? Do you [i]actually [/i]find his posts entertaining and funny? Because if that's the case, you should probably get some professional help. Or, as is likely the case, you can't really find a solid factual base to strut your platform from, so you find yourself saying things like "lolomg you disagree with me, that's HILARIOUS".

Find a new way to express disagreement, please. It is quite annoying to see all the time. Yes, I am legitimately annoyed by your posts. Unless you come to this thread for your daily injection of comedy and entertainment, something most of us leave to movies, music, etc., you should probably stop saying things like that. It really doesn't make you look cool, funny, or hip. It just makes you look like a fool with a limited vocabulary.

[Charles Stuart]

[quote name='Longshadow' timestamp='1356067776' post='3066531']
There is only one way to view an MDP. For example because Kaskus hit us (as in you are the aggressor we simply went after the one member) our allies who hold MDP's with us can come in on our side if we asked them. If we attacked Kaskus first they could not do that if there was not an aggression portion to the treaty that gave them that option or required them to.
[/quote]

Umm no. When NSO as an alliance attacked a kaskus gov member, you effectively declared war on kaskus. Sure, you gave them the option but the presence of an option does not preclude the fact that NSO in this instance is the aggressor. You have a justified CB however the only allies of NSO's that could attack kaskus at this moment in time would be ones possessing aggression clauses in the treaties signed between both parties.

You lot have my support in this but setting precedents like "you harboured someone on our ZI list so that makes you the aggressor who declared war on me even though we attacked first" is a bad thing that can escalate rather quickly.

Edited December 21, 2012 by Charles Stuart

[D34th]

[quote name='Ernesto Che Guevara' timestamp='1356088995' post='3066565']
Is it amusing, D34th? Is it really amusing? Does his posting really provide you with laughter and entertainment? Do you find yourself needing to change your undergarments because you laughed too hard at his posts?

Is he a comedian to you? Do you [i]actually [/i]find his posts entertaining and funny? Because if that's the case, you should probably get some professional help. Or, as is likely the case, you can't really find a solid factual base to strut your platform from, so you find yourself saying things like "lolomg you disagree with me, that's HILARIOUS".

Find a new way to express disagreement, please. It is quite annoying to see all the time. Yes, I am legitimately annoyed by your posts. Unless you come to this thread for your daily injection of comedy and entertainment, something most of us leave to movies, music, etc., you should probably stop saying things like that. It really doesn't make you look cool, funny, or hip. It just makes you look like a fool with a limited vocabulary.
[/quote]

Are you annoyed by my posts? Then I suggest you use the forum function to ignore me and live happily ever after. Regarding the hilarity of magicninja's posts, I and others already explained to him why his compassion are totally off base(and if you didn't understood yet, I can explain again to you, I'm cool like that.) and why LSF/NoR war has nothing in common with NSO/Kaskus war, but he keeps pushing it, and sue me if my laughs annoy you, but it's extremely amusing see he getting lost like in the post that I quoted, and by lost I mean taunting the side his own alliance is allied with.

[Gibsonator21]

[quote name='Ernesto Che Guevara' timestamp='1356088995' post='3066565']
Is it amusing, D34th? Is it really amusing? Does his posting really provide you with laughter and entertainment? Do you find yourself needing to change your undergarments because you laughed too hard at his posts?

Is he a comedian to you? Do you [i]actually [/i]find his posts entertaining and funny?
[/quote]

Well... You share a special channel with me. You know at least *I* find magic's posts absolutely hilarious, and mostly for the same reasons as d34th.

[BloodFury]

Best of luck NSO, be sure to remove Kaskus from its high horse.

[Garion]

[quote name='Longshadow' timestamp='1356067776' post='3066531']
There is only one way to view an MDP. For example because Kaskus hit us (as in you are the aggressor we simply went after the one member) our allies who hold MDP's with us can come in on our side if we asked them. If we attacked Kaskus first they could not do that if there was not an aggression portion to the treaty that gave them that option or required them to.
[/quote]

You hit them with a very solid casus belli, but you're still the aggressor here. I don't think your superiors will deny that...

[quote name='magicninja' timestamp='1356084439' post='3066559']
Semantics and !@#$%^&*. When you boil it down both cases are one alliance not activating an optional portion of their treaty because their partner was obviously asking for it. This splitting hairs !@#$ is part of the reason your "side" is dickless and pretty much a joke. You guys don't have the mental capacity for any kind of original thought. It's lame and quite frankly saps all of the fun out of this place. By all means continue playing the fools...it suits you so well.
[/quote]

I missed the part were Kaskus was begging for help. I understand this suits your goals, but you should really try harder... or just shut the @#[* up: that would do GATO a big favor ;)

Edited December 21, 2012 by Garion

[Hereno]

[quote name='Ernesto Che Guevara' timestamp='1356067903' post='3066532']
Coming from the likes of you, I'll take that as a compliment.
[/quote]

Is that the best you could do? You come into this thread specifically talking about how much more you know about the situation than anybody else did, and subsequently had everything you said dismantled, until you're stuck parroting the "LSF has no government, therefore they cannot have official contact with anyone and can't negotiate reps" line. As someone who was in LSF, and is now MDoAP allied to LSF, I can assure you that they are quite capable fellows. NoR could tell you the same, seeing as they negotiated reps with LSF to end the war they were in. More, they seem content to not come on the OWF and run their mouths about something they haven't got the faintest clue about, so I might go as far as to say they're even more capable than you. So please, tell me, what is it about my "likes" that makes me so terrible? That I'm willing to tell you exactly how much of an idiot you are? You should learn to shut up while you are ahead.

Edited December 21, 2012 by Hereno

[Hiro Nakara]

[quote name='Garion' timestamp='1356092075' post='3066572']
You hit them with a very solid casus belli, but you're still the aggressor here. I don't think your superiors will deny that...
[/quote]


Dilber seems to think we are.

[Johnny Apocalypse]

the reason wars are such a rarity these days is because of the stigma that we have collectively attached to any act of aggression.

aggression is good, aggression fuels war and war fuels us all,

good luck to both parties.

[Dilber]

We did not initiate alliance-wide hostilities. We initiated "Saving Private Ryan", but the end goal was killing private Ryan.

[Stewie]

[quote name='Johnny Apocalypse' timestamp='1356094766' post='3066579']
the reason wars are such a rarity these days is because of the stigma that we have collectively attached to any act of aggression.

aggression is good, aggression fuels war and war fuels us all,

good luck to both parties.
[/quote]

Sounds good to me.


Time to get aggressive!!

[Rayvon]

[quote name='Hereno' timestamp='1356092360' post='3066573']
So please, tell me, what is it about my "likes" that makes me so terrible? [/quote]

The fact that they're yours. You're terrible.

[Rayvon]

About 5 nations have moved onto the Kaskus AA from other alliances now. We are tracking these jumpers.

If the trend continues, it will be treated as escalated hostilities from Kaskus allies and responded to as such.

[mattski133]

[quote name='Rush Sykes' timestamp='1356059517' post='3066510']
Kaskus has 38 nations total.... NSO has 31 nations just in the 30-60K range.... the math does not lie... an alliance with 4x the nations of another alliance... and nearly the same average nation strength... will always have adequate coverage over the smaller alliance. In every range. Its one of the few instances (1v1 alliances wars) where you can pretty much read both sides with just looking at ANS.
[/quote]

well between this and the post above i'll just munch popcorn from here on out.

Edited December 21, 2012 by mattski133

[Johnny Apocalypse]

[quote name='Dilber' timestamp='1356095546' post='3066580']
We did not initiate alliance-wide hostilities. We initiated "Saving Private Ryan", but the end goal was killing private Ryan.
[/quote]

yes you did, dont let these meanies make you feel bad for it. you should feel bad for other reasons instead

[Commander shepard]

[quote name='Rayvon' timestamp='1356097040' post='3066585']
it will be treated as escalated hostilities from Kaskus allies and responded to as such.
[/quote]
How so?