D34th Posted June 14, 2012 Report Share Posted June 14, 2012 This thread worked very well for you NPO... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starfox101 Posted June 14, 2012 Report Share Posted June 14, 2012 How unfortunate. This didn't go well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jrenster Posted June 14, 2012 Report Share Posted June 14, 2012 Truly an unfortunate series of events. [quote]You're essentially badmouthing your allies who will support MK by your posturing. [/quote] Ask our allies if they feel they're being badmouthed. It's not like this came out of left field. They know our thoughts on this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Apocalypse Posted June 14, 2012 Report Share Posted June 14, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Brehon' timestamp='1339704160' post='2983869'] If the NPO or any alliance waited for the stars and planets to align before making moves, NOTHING would happen. I told people early on we would take the good and the bad as we looked beyond to the long game of things. Everything has its steps, this is no different. Many are comfortable in living in the now, gratify me now, satisfy me now, love me now, hate me now. I do not. Pacifica plays the long game folks. clarity: War is good. CB is horrid. Think beyond today. [/quote] Stop talking out of both sides of your mouth, you either support this war and the CB or you don't. You cannot in good conscience claim to be a loyal ally while simultaneously publicly make them look bad for marching to war with a CB which you so boldly claim you were never in agreement with. It's like you're saying "I hereby declare that I don't agree with the reasons for slaughtering the firstborns of every woman in the country but I'll assist the people that are doing it anyway out of 'loyalty'" Loyalty is not something you show with your words, you show it with your actions and a truly loyal ally would not try to gain the moral high ground at the expense of their allies marching to war. This is simply you trying to place yourselves higher up in the pecking order for post-war and nothing more, sure your allies might say they don't see it that way but I'm sure that some of them do. There is nothing honourable or just about this statement and there is no real loyalty on display here, it's standard dirty politics and don't try to pretend it's anything more than that. I am thinking beyond today and I can see exactly what your long game is. Edited June 14, 2012 by Johnny Apocalypse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
berbers Posted June 14, 2012 Report Share Posted June 14, 2012 [quote name='Johnny Apocalypse' timestamp='1339685281' post='2983377'] Well I guess Brehon isn't around so we've got you to play revisionist word games with instead. The truth is you don't really have any objections to this war at all, in fact this war actually works to your benefit because it means you get to make statements like the OP to try and look like you have the moral high ground to rally people to your sphere of influence. [b]I'm sure when you were informed of the potential war you didn't actually tell your allies that you'd make a thread with such blatant moral posturing in which you denounce the legitimacy of the war did you[/b]? [/quote] NPO is very communicative with it's allies, your assertion is flawed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Apocalypse Posted June 14, 2012 Report Share Posted June 14, 2012 [quote name='Jrenster' timestamp='1339708649' post='2983958'] Truly an unfortunate series of events. Ask our allies if they feel they're being badmouthed. It's not like this came out of left field. They know our thoughts on this. [/quote] It's probably because your allies are better than you and don't resort to trying to get the upper hand at your expense. The rest of us however see through your bs and won't hesitate to call you on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Apocalypse Posted June 14, 2012 Report Share Posted June 14, 2012 (edited) [quote name='berbers' timestamp='1339709433' post='2983974'] NPO is very communicative with it's allies, your assertion is flawed. [/quote] That's not really an answer to the question I asked now is it? Edited June 14, 2012 by Johnny Apocalypse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brucemania Posted June 14, 2012 Report Share Posted June 14, 2012 I have a idea Johnny Apocalypse ... How about since NPO has the guts to at least make a statement , how about Umbrella making a statement officially on their thoughts if what MK is doing and if you will be supporting your allies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
berbers Posted June 14, 2012 Report Share Posted June 14, 2012 [quote name='Johnny Apocalypse' timestamp='1339709733' post='2983984'] That's not really an answer to the question I asked now is it? [/quote] Really, when I say "your assertion is flawed" you can't extrapolate a "you are wrong" from that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brehon Posted June 14, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 14, 2012 Yes I can say I don't agree with the CB... oh look I did and shared it openly prior to it going up and in fact talked to Leet directly before I posted my DoI. Yes I can say I will support my ally...oh look I did. And look at you with the dramatics. CSN isn't some innocent alliance akin to the slaughtering of women and children (nor is any of SF or in fact ANY alliance in this game). You don't like that I can indeed do that, then I just feel sorry for you. Why you have this venom is beyond me. I never quite got what you and a few others are all up in arms about and have been for some time /shrugs. Can't say I care either. Since you say I am talking out of both sides of my mouth, care to explain yourself or are you really doing the monkey scream and throw crap on the wall to see what sticks? When haven't I been clear about the NPO, her goals or what we are doing? Meh what JA, continue your tirade it gives you something to do. Tell me what is my long game? Considering I have put it up and talked about it openly you can do the cliff notes and go just quote a previous post, easier to hit the target from there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tamerlane Posted June 14, 2012 Report Share Posted June 14, 2012 [quote name='brucemania' timestamp='1339709779' post='2983986'] I have a idea Johnny Apocalypse ... How about since NPO has the guts to at least make a statement , how about Umbrella making a statement officially on their thoughts if what MK is doing and if you will be supporting your allies. [/quote] Shots fired! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horatio Longworth Posted June 14, 2012 Report Share Posted June 14, 2012 [quote name='tamerlane' timestamp='1339709927' post='2983992'] Shots fired! [/quote] Lines being drawn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dejarue Posted June 14, 2012 Report Share Posted June 14, 2012 [quote name='Brehon' timestamp='1339709884' post='2983990'] Yes I can say I don't agree with the CB... oh look I did and shared it openly prior to it going up and in fact talked to Leet directly before I posted my DoI. Yes I can say I will support my ally...oh look I did. And look at you with the dramatics. CSN isn't some innocent alliance akin to the slaughtering of women and children (nor is any of SF or in fact ANY alliance in this game). You don't like that I can indeed do that, then I just feel sorry for you. Why you have this venom is beyond me. I never quite got what you and a few others are all up in arms about and have been for some time /shrugs. Can't say I care either. Since you say I am talking out of both sides of my mouth, care to explain yourself or are you really doing the monkey scream and throw crap on the wall to see what sticks? When haven't I been clear about the NPO, her goals or what we are doing? Meh what JA, continue your tirade it gives you something to do. Tell me what is my long game? Considering I have put it up and talked about it openly you can do the cliff notes and go just quote a previous post, easier to hit the target from there. [/quote] It sounds to me like "Oooooh I want a piece of this! But I don't support their reasoning!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Savage Man Posted June 14, 2012 Report Share Posted June 14, 2012 [quote name='brucemania' timestamp='1339709779' post='2983986'] I have a idea Johnny Apocalypse ... How about since NPO has the guts to at least make a statement , how about Umbrella making a statement officially on their thoughts if what MK is doing and if you will be supporting your allies. [/quote] [center][img]http://img821.imageshack.us/img821/1034/umb.png[/img][/center] Umbrella's ally in the Mushroom Kingdom has attacked the Commonwealth of Sovereign Nations. We pledge to honor the terms of the Doomhouse Accords and we're not making a thread about it because we already made one when we signed the treaty in the first place. Because of our respect for the Mushroom Kingdom, our shared allies, and our own dignity, we will not create a dog and pony show of a thread for the purposes of accumulating cheap praise from Honor Poster #145. Any and all concerns we might have about the attack on CSN (basically about NationRuler's fragile mental state) will be communicated to and hashed out privately with the Mushroom Kingdom and any associated third parties. Thank you and have a nice day. Signed, Chief Savage Man, [i]Retired Useless !@#$%*[/i] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brehon Posted June 14, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 14, 2012 Doesn't sound like... I thought I was clear. SF/MK going to war is good without a doubt. My own quote: [quote]......clarity: War is good. CB is horrid. Think beyond today[/quote] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brucemania Posted June 14, 2012 Report Share Posted June 14, 2012 o/ Umbrella ... nothing but praise for supporting your Ally Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jrenster Posted June 14, 2012 Report Share Posted June 14, 2012 [quote name='Johnny Apocalypse' timestamp='1339709553' post='2983978'] It's probably because your allies are better than you and don't resort to trying to get the upper hand at your expense. The rest of us however see through your bs and won't hesitate to call you on it. [/quote] Oh come off it. You have nothing to show for this. You've been talking about some proof or logs you have hidden in your pocket, and yet you haven't shown anything. It's as if you think you know the relationship of our allies better than we do. All of your claims have no evidence. Even in the face of our friends completely denying your accusations, you just grasp onto some more straws by proclaiming your know their intentions better than they do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pingu Posted June 14, 2012 Report Share Posted June 14, 2012 [quote name='Chief Savage Man' timestamp='1339710505' post='2984014'] [center][img]http://img821.imageshack.us/img821/1034/umb.png[/img][/center] Umbrella's ally in the Mushroom Kingdom has attacked the Commonwealth of Sovereign Nations. We pledge to honor the terms of the Doomhouse Accords and we're not making a thread about it because we already made one when we signed the treaty in the first place. Because of our respect for the Mushroom Kingdom, our shared allies, and our own dignity, we will not create a dog and pony show of a thread for the purposes of accumulating cheap praise from Honor Poster #145. Any and all concerns we might have about the attack on CSN (basically about NationRuler's fragile mental state) will be communicated to and hashed out privately with the Mushroom Kingdom and any associated third parties. Thank you and have a nice day. Signed, Chief Savage Man, [i]Retired Useless !@#$%*[/i] [/quote] This statement is penguin-approved(TM) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schattenmann Posted June 14, 2012 Report Share Posted June 14, 2012 [quote name='Baron Flynt' timestamp='1339643910' post='2982687'] Why'd you pick these allies then? [/quote] Athens and then TLR were very friendly to NPO while their allies were beating the piss out of NPO over and over. [quote name='Farrin Xies' timestamp='1339646630' post='2982805'] For those with reading comprehension problems, let me give a tl;dr: NPO thinks that MK is wrong in their actions; however, we stand by our allies and will not ignore our treaties. I'm not sure how many more times, how much louder, or how much more clearly we can say that WE DO NOT SUPPORT MK'S ACTIONS. [/quote] I understand what Brehon is saying completely, but I also understand where all the leeway for reading between the lines (as Brehon put it) comes from. At the end of the day, if NPO goes to war in support of MK based on their TLR treaty, it will be an entirely optional affair. MK is the aggressor in this war, TLR's involvement will be mutual aggression, and an NPO entry will be just the same; not a matter of "defending" TLR at all, but assisting MK in their aggression. Even without considering this, NPO's treaty with TLR is non-chaining, making defense--if that's what NPO [i]chooses [/i]to call it--[url="http://cybernations.wikia.com/wiki/The_Big_Trouble_in_Little_China_Accords"]entirely optional[/url]. We all know Brehon's stance on non-chaining clauses (they don't actually matter), but clearly someone in TLR wanted it or someone in NPO wanted it, and this situation makes the treaty optional either way: aggressive or defensive. All philosophical positions aside, NPO is doing just what NPO feels it [i]must [/i]do. You say, Brehon, thaat you're playing the long game, and I can take that at face value. But I hope for less compromise on the next leg. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Letum Posted June 14, 2012 Report Share Posted June 14, 2012 (edited) If people are getting this butthurt over NPO not toying the party line, then this thread has been successful beyond our expectations. Let's not be stupid here. A CB and a war have become two completely different things in our world. A CB is often a political charade (or at least a smokescreen) intended to purposefully find a trigger for a war. Despite that, some CB's can be acceptable - but others set retarded precedents. A war is the result of months (or years) of political maneuvering and rivalries. In that regard, the war between MK and SF has been on everyone's radar for a long time, and most alliances have long since determined where they might stand. What this means is that for 90% of our world, what they fight for is going to have absolutely nothing to do with the CB. You don't get conflicts expanding to world war levels because some random nation ruffled a few feathers, you get it because of an institutionalized system of alliances, networks and individual interests that push it and escalate it to that point. Now, I am not saying that CB's never affect the outcome of wars or where alliances caught with conflicting ties might end up, but frankly that is part of the lobbying side-show to a war. So don't give us this bull about private channels or making allies look bad or our loyalty being a facade. This isn't some kind of cold-war bipolar world where you either support black or white. Alliances like ours do end up with conflicting priorities; and we have to accept that some of them - such as helping our allies - will come with costs attached that are measured in more than just NS shed. Edited June 14, 2012 by Letum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Savage Man Posted June 14, 2012 Report Share Posted June 14, 2012 [quote name='brucemania' timestamp='1339710722' post='2984019'] o/ Umbrella ... nothing but praise for supporting your Ally [/quote] I like you, guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wickedj Posted June 15, 2012 Report Share Posted June 15, 2012 Just wanted to chime in with this little note. How many times do we see someone do something and their allies kindly turn their heads and look the other way. I read the OP as saying "Yes its a stupid reason for war but, we arent going to ignore a treaty just because of it." As an aside how often do we see treaties get e-lawyered in instances like this just so some people dont have to fight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rush Sykes Posted June 15, 2012 Report Share Posted June 15, 2012 [quote name='Bob Janova' timestamp='1339703699' post='2983858'] That can be a good CB, depending on what level those plans are at. But that isn't the CB which has been used here, is it? [/quote] Objectively, if the facts are still true... does the used CB matter? That is kinda my point about window dressing. The culture that created the need for window dressing of CBs, would still reject the reality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogaden Posted June 15, 2012 Report Share Posted June 15, 2012 [quote name='Rush Sykes' timestamp='1339721554' post='2984169'] Objectively, if the facts are still true... does the used CB matter? That is kinda my point about window dressing. The culture that created the need for window dressing of CBs, would still reject the reality. [/quote] You're right in that noone is outraged at absurd or even nonexistent justifications for hostilities anymore, and yet MK continues the Sisyphean task of defending their justification. It's almost as though they believe it does matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the rebel Posted June 15, 2012 Report Share Posted June 15, 2012 Goodluck NPO on trying to convince factions of the membership to support MK, if it comes to that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.