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For too long...


Unknown Smurf
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Citizens of Planet Bob,

I come before you today as an aggrieved citizen. In the midst of earnest efforts to end a war, efforts that were so close to becoming successful, the Mushroom Kingdom and Viridian Entente took a path that speaks of their arrogance and blind wrath. It is clear they did not want peace, and we will live forever with the consequences. I formally register my disgust with the Mushroom Kingdom and the Viridian Entente. You believe you can have your way without consequences in this world. That is not the case.

For too long we have allowed the ideals set-forth in the Karma war declarations to be forgotten. Yesterday both the Mushroom Kingdom and the Viridian Entente have proven they have forgotten their past. They have forgotten that they fought against allowing the tyranny of those alliances with the superior numbers.

I now see why TheNeverender, more affectionately known as Archon to some, was so respected in his day for he was able to forsee that "in due time, you will regret this. All of us will regret this war, whether we wanted it or not. It will be brutal, and it will be bloody. Bonds will be shattered with such righteous wrath that they will never ever be repaired. What is the most terrible fact of all is that history will take note that this war needn't have occurred at all." Yes, that war (Karma) needn't have occurred at all because we have not changed anything, in fact we have advocated harsher treatments than ever before, the only difference is that the minority is no longer as vocal.

I will no longer sit quietly as excessive reparations are taken, which was supposed to have ended in Karma but has since been perpetuated by MK and others, especially Impero and Xiphosis.

I will no longer sit quietly watching curb-stomps, which also were perpetuated by MK, VE, and their allies since Karma. Even if I do not like the alliance being rolled, if they did not do anything wrong other than be on the weaker side of the treaty web, why should they be attacked?

But I understand that I am just one nation and I have little that I can do, so I all I can do is ask you to look at your treaties. Are you allowing this rampant disregard for what we fought for in Karma continue?

Umbrella, for too long you have been the voice of reason in PB and DH. TOP [url=http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=54743&view=findpost&p=1436061]was the voice of reason[/url] for NPO and you are the voice of reason here. NPO eventually got what was coming to them, and so will MK.

TOP, I understand you have a MDoAP to MK, but I would like to remind you that they have a history of throwing away their allies when they no longer need them and it was not too long ago that they are the ones [url=http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=79441]who have shown time and time again, in public and in private, that doing harm to us is high on their agenda[/url]. All MK is doing is treatying you for the influence you have in PF. They are using you.

Gramlins, I understand that TOP is your bloc mate in PF with you, but do realize that they were never really on the receiving end of the original Hegemony and they cannot comprehend the type of persecution your alliance had to deal with it in the past. It is just a matter of time before MK and its lackeys do similar atrocities.

NSO and it's allies, I understand you would never wish to be on the same side of the war as Polaris due to BiPolar, and I don't blame you. Many of you hate Polaris moreso than anyone else despite the prior friendship shared via frostbite. But this has nothing to do with Polaris. This is about destroying the greater evil.

DT, don't forget what Xiphosis did.

Fark, don't forget what GOONS did. They can claim they are different all they want and that may be true in the sense that their rulers are not the same rulers that were during the original GOONS, but those original rulers are gone. Look at their close friendship with Umbrella (Made of many former Genmay people) and tell me, are they really that different? They have been advocating shark week, and they still tech raid and, if the could get away with it, I'm sure they would take donations from you again.

Superfriends (minus GOD), I would like to remind you that PB and MK are the ones who have put you into the diplomatic isolation you see now. I understand there are problem between you and Mjölnir but that does not mean you can't be on the same side. The enemy of your enemy is your friend.

Mjölnir, I urge you to stand by your allies in Ragnarok should they choose to defend NSO. Yes, you may be on the same coalition side as some people you hate, but you will finally be able to exact your revenge on the manipulative MK. I am sure I do not need to remind you about Ardus' comment of a diminished Mjölnir.

In order to defeat the new hegemony you must work with those you hate now, but that does not mean you need to stay friends in the aftermath.

Now I am just a lowly member. I was not able to pull strings and have grand schemes and have certain alliances strategically ally others so that the dominos will fall in my way like Archon was able to. But if not now, when? MK and VE are aligned along with GOD due to the MADP. All you have to do is knock them down. But I understand that this may not be the time or place to do so. In fact, I don't even know if the attack from MK/VE will come because the Legion and NSO may declare peace as I am not privi to those backroom channels, but all I do know is that continuing to stand by as the crimes get worser and worser will only result in a diminishing potential NS against the hegemony later.

This could very well turn into XX/Polaris/Mjölnir versus PB or just another curbstomp on the Legion (and its allies?). MK and VE have attempted to play Mjölnir and SF againist each other for so long, it is time to break free of constraints.

Or maybe even not escalate into a war at all, but if it doesn't, know that the wheels are in motion.

With Love,
Unknown Smurf

Just to be clear, this is not a declaration of war, just a $%&@ you.

[OOC]Better if you guys all kick the !@#$ outta PB now, because once the dust settles the hatred between the victors can continue and we won't have one group of "friends" ruling the world. Should be fun :awesome: [/ooc]

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[spoiler][quote name='deth2munkies' timestamp='1320528319' post='2839793']
For starters, I already talked about the topic at hand, but it's probably been lost in the shuffle so here it is:

I don't care, it kind of sucks that the Legion, after an extraordinarily rare display of valor will likely have to get hit, but if the NSO goes down too I still consider that a victory.

Now, on to the last billion pages of vitriol to sort through:

It's funny, I've noticed a lot of people railing against this announcement supported the "New Moldavi Doctrine" back when it was announced. That's what's being exercised here, that's EXACTLY what a lot of people wanted. Even in relation to this conflict, reading the first few pages of the dozens of threads on the topic, you have people crying, "Please! Escalate this conflict!" and are now throwing around moral reasons why it's wrong. The real hypocrites here are you out there in the community.

The allegations of "MK being the new NPO" have been thrown around for a while now, and to me they still lack merit for several reasons:

1) The NPO never did this before.

Not once did they intervene in a conflict in progress with a military ultimatum to find peace. If they wanted to stomp someone, they went fishing for a reason, any remotely defensible reason, to do what they did beforehand. You could cite "Breathing our air", but you realize what I am saying is the truth in the majority of the cases.

2) MK does not have a stranglehold on political power.

As much as you might perceive them to have it they really don't. They did back in Karma because people wanted them to have it. Their high level members comprise some of the most eloquent and intelligent minds on Planet Bob (even if their average member quality is markedly worse than most other alliances) and provided the rallying cry that people were waiting for. Now that the revolution has calmed down, they're just a mid-tier alliance with a good top end and decent treaty position. They're far from untouchable. The NPO at it's height was the #1 sanctioned alliance with a bloc encompassing 10 of the top 12 alliances in the game with a few more to spare. The difference here is enormous.

3) MK lacks the support structure that NPO had.

Related to point 2 but in a different way. MK's culture is markedly different from that of the NPO. While the NPO was in control, their culture overflowed and was used as an instrument to depress the populace and keep order. MK's culture is !@#$% insane, with most of the average members being glorified /b/tards. Their cult of personality is waning quickly as it is no longer supported by being the counterweight to an oppressive political culture, they will never have the dominance NPO reached, ever.

Now that we've gotten that out of the way, let's talk about interference in political affairs:

As much as you don't want to admit it, both parties involved in this have a stake in the conflict. Due to treaty chaining, both would eventually be pulled in to any escalating conflict. As this larger conflict would serve no purpose to the two alliances in question and indeed could cause damage to their allies who might end up on opposite sides, it is politically prudent for them to take this course of action, as morally reprehensible as you may think it is.
[/quote][/spoiler]

Considering I literally just made a post on this subject, here it is.

You also allude to, but don't understand one of the fundamental points of Karma:

It was never about morality triumphing over evil, it was about revenge. The NPO pissed a lot of people off but managed to keep enough influence to keep them at bay and there was a breaking point. We were pissed off and weren't trying or willing to establish a new world order, and quite frankly, such a thing never came into existence despite the incoherent ramblings of many, including you.

It's my personal opinion that MK is no longer a place I would feel at home, but it has nothing to do with the reasons you listed.

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What harsh reparations has MK given since Karma? We took ~300k tech from TOP & Co because they lost their pre-emptive war. We didn't even accept the entire reps because we ended up allying TOP before reps were even done. MK didn't even get any reps in the DH-NPO War, only GOONS receiving $2.4b which is extremely easy to pay off, considering it's only 809 slots, which would amount to 40450 tech in the same amount of time.

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[quote name='Ninja Colt' timestamp='1320533158' post='2839830']
What harsh reparations has MK given since Karma? We took ~300k tech from TOP & Co because they lost their pre-emptive war. We didn't even accept the entire reps because we ended up allying TOP before reps were even done. MK didn't even get any reps in the DH-NPO War, only GOONS receiving $2.4b which is extremely easy to pay off, considering it's only 809 slots, which would amount to 40450 tech in the same amount of time.
[/quote]

15 million and 250 tech off NSO for one of their members bailing on a trade circle that MK had paid 3 million for? :P

As for a tl;dr it appears to be a rallying call for reason on a planet long lacking in reason.

Edited by Tygaland
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[quote name='flak attack' timestamp='1320538030' post='2839869']
I don't believe NpO paid any reps. Hell, I don't even think VE required a concession of defeat.
[/quote]

NpO didn't but many people just honoring treaties did. Did you forget Impero living vicariously through CSN and forcing DT to pay?

Also " [url=http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=99845]Victorious Alliances[/url] " was used quite a bit.

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[quote name='Unknown Smurf' timestamp='1320530272' post='2839807']
[b]Umbrella, for too long you have been the voice of reason in PB and DH[/b]. TOP [url=http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=54743&view=findpost&p=1436061]was the voice of reason[/url] for NPO and you are the voice of reason here. NPO eventually got what was coming to them, and so will MK.

Fark, don't forget what GOONS did. They can claim they are different all they want and that may be true in the sense that their rulers are not the same rulers that were during the original GOONS, but those original rulers are gone. [b]Look at their close friendship with Umbrella (Made of many former Genmay people) and tell me, are they really that different?[/b] They have been advocating shark week, and they still tech raid and, if the could get away with it, I'm sure they would take donations from you again.

TOP, I understand you have a MDoAP to MK, but I would like to remind you that they have a history of throwing away their allies when they no longer need them and it was not too long ago that they are the ones [url=http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=79441]who have shown time and time again, in public and in private, that doing harm to us is high on their agenda[/url]. All MK is doing is treatying you for the influence you have in PF. They are using you.

Gramlins, I understand that TOP is your bloc mate in PF with you, but do realize that they were never really on the receiving end of the original Hegemony and they cannot comprehend the type of persecution your alliance had to deal with it in the past. It is just a matter of time before MK and its lackeys do similar atrocities.
[/quote]

If you're going to try to play two sides against each other, best not to do it this openly in the same damn post. :facepalm:

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[quote]
Fark, don't forget what GOONS did. They can claim they are different all they want and that may be true in the sense that their rulers are not the same rulers that were during the original GOONS, but those original rulers are gone. Look at their close friendship with Umbrella (Made of many former Genmay people) and tell me, are they really that different? They have been advocating shark week, and they still tech raid and, if the could get away with it, I'm sure they would take donations from you again.
[/quote]
Excuse me, if you're going to blast us with an uninformed stream-of-consciousness paragraph, you could put a little more effort into it than that.

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[quote name='Ninja Colt' timestamp='1320533158' post='2839830']
MK didn't even get any reps in the DH-NPO War,[/quote]
Wrong.
MK charged Carpe Diem twice the reps that CSN charged Dark Templar, 18k tech and the cash equivalent of 2k more tech: http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=100267
You charged TOOL 26,000 tech, almost triple the amount that CSN charged DT. http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=100820
[quote name='Ninja Colt' timestamp='1320533158' post='2839830']only GOONS receiving $2.4b which is extremely easy to pay off, considering it's only 809 slots, which would amount to 40450 tech in the same amount of time.
[/quote]
"Easy" is far from the word when GOONS triple-assigned targets to NPO Coalition members, and considering GOONS changed point-man on reps 3 times and didn't keep straight records, requiring the use of NPO's Unimatrix 0 records. The difficulty of reps payments also has no bearing on how onerous they were, nor does it negate the fact that they were demanded of a defensive coalition.

[right][font="Comic Sans MS"]Toasty![/font]
[img]http://cdn3.hark.com/images/000/035/626/35626/original.gif[/img][/right]

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Cool enough, but we have a procedure for airing grievances and you didn't follow it.

And Schatt just shut up before we have a twelve-page discussion on reps that were entirely deserved please!

Edited by Neo Uruk
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