Legion-Doomhouse "Performance"

[Pearl]

[quote name='Lukapaka' timestamp='1319609210' post='2832444']
Right! I'm just here to carry out his mission..
[/quote]

And I'm your minion, helping to carry out the "the mission" as we'll call it.

[Lusitan]

I would like to personally congratulate NSO for taking the last step towards being rolled by absolutely everyone - even by the people who were never expected to roll anyone. You seem to win the game by continuously finding ways to lose, it's rather impressive.

[WorldConqueror]

[quote name='Lusitan' timestamp='1319610889' post='2832450']
I would like to personally congratulate NSO for taking the last step towards being rolled by absolutely everyone - even by the people who were never expected to roll anyone. You seem to win the game by continuously finding ways to lose, it's rather impressive.
[/quote]
Thanks, we try. It's basically just a game of brinksmanship between our Emperors, who can get us rolled in the most ridiculous fashion. Heft was leading for quite a while with a war over 6M, but Youwish may have just pipped him with the Legion effort. Eventually Ivan will become Emperor again, provoke GPA into rolling us, thereby winning the game and ensuring that our legacy will continue on far beyond our disbandment.

[jerdge]

[quote name='WorldConqueror' timestamp='1319611881' post='2832452']Thanks, we try. It's basically just a game of brinksmanship between our Emperors, who can get us rolled in the most ridiculous fashion. Heft was leading for quite a while with a war over 6M, but Youwish may have just pipped him with the Legion effort. [b]Eventually Ivan will become Emperor again, provoke GPA into rolling us[/b], thereby winning the game and ensuring that our legacy will continue on far beyond our disbandment.[/quote]
I am sorry but Ivan [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=62408"]already failed at that plan[/url]!

[spoiler]GPA: getting apologies without even trying! [/spoiler]

[WorldConqueror]

[quote name='jerdge' timestamp='1319640564' post='2832497']
I am sorry but Ivan [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=62408"]already failed at that plan[/url]!

[spoiler]GPA: getting apologies without even trying! [/spoiler]
[/quote]
That was just the first stage, he's been away refining the plan since he stepped down. Soon he will be back to enact the Final NSOlution. :>

[jerdge]

[quote name='WorldConqueror' timestamp='1319641916' post='2832502']That was just the first stage, he's been away refining the plan since he stepped down. Soon he will be back to enact the Final NSOlution. :> [/quote]
Crap! Saddle my steed Sancho! Yes it is time to slay giants yet again.

Edited October 26, 2011 by jerdge

[Heft]

[quote name='Lusitan' timestamp='1319610889' post='2832450']
I would like to personally congratulate NSO for taking the last step towards being rolled by absolutely everyone - even by the people who were never expected to roll anyone. You seem to win the game by continuously finding ways to lose, it's rather impressive.
[/quote]
No one is being "rolled." Sorry.

[Timeline]

You have to give it you to NSO this started off as a PR campaign on how poorly Legion did in Legion Vs Doomhouse war, and in 11 pages NSO has turned it around to Sparta rolling NSO to NSO hitting GPA, I believe NSO should get peace soon as there are so many alliances and so little time for everyone to get some.

[Hereno]

[quote name='Timeline' timestamp='1319677088' post='2832741']
You have to give it you to NSO this started off as a PR campaign on how poorly Legion did in Legion Vs Doomhouse war, and in 11 pages NSO has turned it around to Sparta rolling NSO to NSO hitting GPA, I believe NSO should get peace soon as there are so many alliances and so little time for everyone to get some.
[/quote]

A+ quality material right here. Please give us more!

[Jake Liebenow]

[quote name='Pearl' timestamp='1319593123' post='2832365']
hahahaha, NSO. you gaiz is so funny. Especially you, Rebel Virginia.

But yeah, Hyp hated you more than I do. I concede, I am jealous of that level of hate.

Fake edit: nobody pmed me a conan eating tears gif while I was tasting beer. That makes me sad panda. +1 brownie points if a member of nso pms it to me.
[/quote]

I've got a different crying one for you.

[img]http://i787.photobucket.com/albums/yy157/sakurafice/the_complet_collection_of_rage_faces_06.jpg[/img]

Keep talking. I keep doing that as a result.

[Dochartaigh]

[quote name='Heft' timestamp='1319673627' post='2832710']
No one is being "rolled." Sorry.
[/quote]

According to the IE stats by dane, NSO has lost 49.4% of its NS. Given ya'lls penchant for not wanting to include nations who have jumped in since the war began and NSO has lost 55.67% of its NS (1,339,145+122,282+899+46,673=1,508,999 then do 1,508,999/2,710,425). Legion has lost 34.1% of its NS. Not including nations who have jumped in since the war began and you have 38.15% of its NS(2,146,467+all nations with a seniority 22 days and lower). Remarkably still much lower than what NSO has lost percentage wise. And before ya'll attempt to state that NSO is much smaller, don't forget that Tetris, NsO, IAA, and BTA are also fighting Legion.

So, after just over 3 weeks of fighting, NSO has lost 50% of its NS plus around 24 nations (started with 130 and not including the 3 nations who joined after the war began, so total original members are 106). I would say that yes, NSO is being rolled and it is being rolled up by Legion.

NSO can claim whatever they want but stats don't really lie if you attempt to not spin them. Losing 50% of your original NS by most people's definition equals being rolled.

[youwish959]

[quote name='Dochartaigh' timestamp='1319686535' post='2832818']
Losing 50% of your original NS by most people's definition equals being rolled.
[/quote]
We're not most people.

[Unknown Smurf]

[quote name='youwish959' timestamp='1319687007' post='2832825']
We're not most people.
[/quote]

See, we can agree on something

[Heft]

[quote name='Dochartaigh' timestamp='1319686535' post='2832818']
According to the IE stats by dane, NSO has lost 49.4% of its NS. Given ya'lls penchant for not wanting to include nations who have jumped in since the war began and NSO has lost 55.67% of its NS (1,339,145+122,282+899+46,673=1,508,999 then do 1,508,999/2,710,425). Legion has lost 34.1% of its NS. Not including nations who have jumped in since the war began and you have 38.15% of its NS(2,146,467+all nations with a seniority 22 days and lower). Remarkably still much lower than what NSO has lost percentage wise. And before ya'll attempt to state that NSO is much smaller, don't forget that Tetris, NsO, IAA, and BTA are also fighting Legion.

So, after just over 3 weeks of fighting, NSO has lost 50% of its NS plus around 24 nations (started with 130 and not including the 3 nations who joined after the war began, so total original members are 106). I would say that yes, NSO is being rolled and it is being rolled up by Legion.

NSO can claim whatever they want but stats don't really lie if you attempt to not spin them. Losing 50% of your original NS by most people's definition equals being rolled.
[/quote]
I've been following the alliance history charts, and we tend to lose anywhere between 50-100k NS most days. Some days less, very rarely more. That's pretty much an inevitable drop when fighting a nuclear war. Legion tends to lose a little bit more than the NSO, which makes sense since they have a little bit more strength in the actual fighting. "Rolled" implies that our opponents have some insurmountable advantage, which they clearly don't. The truth is that the war has reached a point where, if it continues as it is, we will just continue to drop nukes on each other as small nations fight and receive aid indefinitely. We'll both lose significant strength, and lose some nations as well. This is what an "even" war looks like: remarkably boring.

Also, surprisingly often, we Sith don't actually bother to "spin" the truth. It's usually better to just go ahead and state the plainly evident truth whenever possible. People like to put words in our mouth and project their insecurities onto us, that's normal, but we're not the ones going out of our way to force the facts fit our desired outcome. It is amusing, though sometimes frustrating, how agitated and offended people get when you just speak honestly.

[jerdge]

[quote name='Heft' timestamp='1319690942' post='2832866']I've been following the alliance history charts, and we tend to lose anywhere between 50-100k NS most days. Some days less, very rarely more. That's pretty much an inevitable drop when fighting a nuclear war. Legion tends to lose a little bit more than the NSO, which makes sense since they have a little bit more strength in the actual fighting. "Rolled" implies that our opponents have some insurmountable advantage, which they clearly don't. The truth is that the war has reached a point where, if it continues as it is, we will just continue to drop nukes on each other as small nations fight and receive aid indefinitely. We'll both lose significant strength, and lose some nations as well.[/quote]
This is absolutely correct. "Being rolled" is when you are hopelessly stomped and you don't inflict significant damage to the enemy (see SOS vs NG). Losing 56% while you inflict 38% damage is not "being rolled", and it wouldn't be even if it was 70%/30% (IMO). "Being rolled" is (for example) 85/5.
There is a grey middle ground where it's a matter of opinions (what about 80/20?) but 56/38 is definitely not about people being "rolled".

At most we can say that it's arduous to claim that 38/56 isn't "losing". I'd say it is, but others might have a case in stating otherwise. (They could be "subjectively correct", also depending on the objective they had when their involvement started.)


[quote name='Heft' timestamp='1319690942' post='2832866']This is what an "even" war looks like: remarkably boring.[/quote]
On the other hand this is both correct and wrong, depending on the angle you look at things from.
It is "wrong" as in even wars there's much greater uncertainty, and the losing side can still achieve some strategic victory in some range. The NSO might be "losing" (I guess especially at higher NS ranges), but The Legion (too) is going to take a significant time to recover, especially if the NSO is able to achieve the upper hand at lower ranges, to raid The Legion's aid flows, to force some opponents to bill-lock and in general to force The Legion to dedicate their Aid system to assistance and reconstruction - rather than tech dealing - for a "long" time after the war.
The NSO might be "losing" but their members are probably having a great time by fighting not all-hopeless individual wars (for once!) Even wars are certainly more funny, and I doubt there's reason to think they generally go on for longer (this one is still relatively young).

It is on the other hand "correct" that even wars are boring, as CN war mechanics aren't really that exciting (especially when compared to the political game). In that sense every war is boring and yes, even wars are "boring" too, but I doubt this is what you were saying.

This reminds me of that (annoying?) joke of mine that I insist to do with you Siths ("War is a Lie"). War is a lie as CN wars are almost all boring series of clicks, where nobody has the slightest shred of a doubt of what the end large-scale result will be. In that sense this war is proving me wrong, and I should probably blame you Siths for having somehow engineered something in The Legion to have this come out this way...
Siths

[Sabcat]

Confusing threads are confusing. There's a stats thread, political/blame type posts so this thread was started to keep it tidy. Now the stats talk is in this thread.

I'm not sure about rolled but the stats are moving in one direction - Legion is winning the numbers.

[Lord Hershey]

Lol, NSO is losing.

[IYIyTh]

[quote name='adrian' timestamp='1319581331' post='2832281']
No, he said Sparta wasn't going to do anything to you, and why should we? NSO hasn't done anything to warrant us doing something, and most likely never will. Thank you for trying though.
[/quote]

Besides, they seem to have their hands full at the moment.

[Dochartaigh]

[quote name='Heft' timestamp='1319690942' post='2832866']
I've been following the alliance history charts, and we tend to lose anywhere between 50-100k NS most days. Some days less, very rarely more. That's pretty much an inevitable drop when fighting a nuclear war. Legion tends to lose a little bit more than the NSO, which makes sense since they have a little bit more strength in the actual fighting. "Rolled" implies that our opponents have some insurmountable advantage, which they clearly don't. The truth is that the war has reached a point where, if it continues as it is, we will just continue to drop nukes on each other as small nations fight and receive aid indefinitely. We'll both lose significant strength, and lose some nations as well. This is what an "even" war looks like: remarkably boring.

Also, surprisingly often, we Sith don't actually bother to "spin" the truth. It's usually better to just go ahead and state the plainly evident truth whenever possible. People like to put words in our mouth and project their insecurities onto us, that's normal, but we're not the ones going out of our way to force the facts fit our desired outcome. It is amusing, though sometimes frustrating, how agitated and offended people get when you just speak honestly.
[/quote]

While this is true, I did not include the damage done to Tetris, NsO, IAA, and BTA throughout this war. What you state is true, NSO is not technically being "rolled" simply because there are other alliances that are helping to absorb damage. So I can see what you are saying.

[Proest]

The very fact that this thread exists is mind numbing. You guys need lives.

[Centurius]

[quote name='Dochartaigh' timestamp='1319739905' post='2833066']
While this is true, I did not include the damage done to Tetris, NsO, IAA, and BTA throughout this war. What you state is true, NSO is not technically being "rolled" simply because there are other alliances that are helping to absorb damage. So I can see what you are saying.
[/quote]

Looking at the screens however(something both sides in this thread have stated) it is pretty clear that certain alliances on Tetris' side aren't really involving themselves and Legion has also stated they don't really focus on alliances other than Tetris and NSO so the original interpretation is correct where NSO is defending itself fairly while Legion has the advantage in stats actively being used.

[Dochartaigh]

[quote name='Centurius' timestamp='1319743356' post='2833080']
Looking at the screens however(something both sides in this thread have stated) it is pretty clear that certain alliances on Tetris' side aren't really involving themselves and Legion has also stated they don't really focus on alliances other than Tetris and NSO so the original interpretation is correct where NSO is defending itself fairly while Legion has the advantage in stats actively being used.
[/quote]

Again this is true but if you add up the combined damage absorbed by NsO, IAA, and BTA; it totals 929,273 NS worth of damage. Given the 2 to 1 damage ratio between NSO and Tetris, NSO would have taken another 619,515 NS worth of damage while Tetris would have taken 309,758 NS worth of damage (this may not be how it actually went down, I am just using the current 2:1 ratio). If it did occur along these lines, Tetris would be down to 102k NS while NSO would be down to just over 750k NS worth of damage. So, yes, NsO/IAA/BTA are not doing much but you cannot discount the fact that those 3 alliances have absorbed over 900k NS worth of damage that Legion dealt out. Had it been just NSO and Tetris, that damage would have gone to just those 2.

Now that is just using the current numbers. If it was just NSO/Tetris vs Legion, the damage could be more or less depending on what actually would have happened. Truth is, we will never know but I do dislike how NsO/IAA/BTA are almost exclusively ignored despite the fact that they have dealt damage to Legion regardless of how many wars they actually had, and all have taken damage. This though is distorted by the fact that IAA has lost several nations and BTA has gained several nations during this war.

So, while NSO is defending itself fairly well, that is in part due to the fact that there are 3 other alliances that are helping to absorb damage. Legion may not be focusing offensive wars on those 3 but nations from those 3 can put Legionnaires into anarchy preventing them from offensively declaring on NSO and Tetris as well as nuke Legionnaires.

[Varianz]

[quote]
<aBLuDe> yo
<Varianz> hi
<aBLuDe> can you attack me
<Varianz> ?
<aBLuDe> Im legion
<aBLuDe> attack me pleas
<Varianz> lolwut
<aBLuDe> attack me tomorrow please
<Varianz> why?
<aBLuDe> http://www.cybernations.net/nation_drill_display.asp?Nation_ID=476162
<Varianz> no thanks looks like you've got an RV nuke coming your way, so no point in me attacking you
<aBLuDe> You scareedddd
<aBLuDe> Come on I wanna smash some more sith
<Varianz> legit wetting my pants irl at the terrifying thought of your 5k NS nation incomplete trades (you have fur ffs) and not even full barracks
<aBLuDe> Attack me then?
<Varianz> no thanks
<aBLuDe> Ok even though your 4k ns
<aBLuDe> YOur bad
<aBLuDe> learn2cn[/quote]

LEGION WARRIORS ASSEMBLE

[Unknown Smurf]

[quote name='Centurius' timestamp='1319743356' post='2833080']
Looking at the screens however(something both sides in this thread have stated) it is pretty clear that certain alliances on Tetris' side aren't really involving themselves and Legion has also stated they don't really focus on alliances other than Tetris and NSO so the original interpretation is correct where NSO is defending itself fairly while Legion has the advantage in stats actively being used.
[/quote]

Don't be swayed by NSOs propoganda. Their allies are fighting. BTA has 27 wars for 18 members. NsO has 73 for 33 members. IAA has 32 for 43 nations.

For comparison sake: Tetris has 109 for 33 nations. NSO has 384 wars for 110 nations.

So Tetris+NSO = 345% of nations in a war.
BTA/NsO/IAA = 145% of nations in a war.

Obviously not perfect stats as I'm not counting peace mode/surrenders/expired wars that were deleted. But it gets the point across that IAA, BTA, and especially NsO aren't just dead weight.

[Unknown Smurf]

[quote name='Varianz' timestamp='1319744255' post='2833083']
LEGION WARRIORS ASSEMBLE
[/quote]

AA Seniority: 1 Day.

Not even masked on our forums. (Nor did he apply from what I see). Are you guys getting so desperate that you are planting people in Legion to message you and look stupid?