Legion-Doomhouse "Performance"

[Rebel Virginia]

[color="#0000FF"]Since the stats thread is not the place for this debate:[/color]

[quote name='Unknown Smurf' timestamp='1319080918' post='2828996']
Fact: Legion lost over 200 nations due to the DH-NPO conflict.
Conclusion: Legion did not [url=http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=105774&view=findpost&p=2828872]take the easy way out[/url].
Fact: Legion was not allied to NSO during the DH-NPO conflict.
Fact: NSO shows no respect to alliances in the same coalition as them because they aren't allies.
Conclusion: Your hypocrisy leads me to believe that your "gripes" are of no concern to me.
[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]As someone who was watching the Legion during that war, most of those 200 nations that Legion lost are nations that were not active enough to get the order to hit peace mode. Also, most of them did not fight at all - a testament to how little they did. I can get plenty of GOONS to testify on account of them.

The members that Legion lost were hardly members, and they didn't do much of anything when it came to fighting. But well over 80% of Legion's strength was kept in peace mode, so don't you dare tell me Legion did not take the easy way out.

Yes, NSO and Legion were not allied. We were not allied to a lot of the coalition. But when it came to coordinating with and assisting them we did not let that get in the way.

And NSO shows respect to those who deserve it. NsO, we respect, for fighting. Invicta I even respect (not that I like them, as I find most of their membership unbearable), as when they go to war they at least show up. They can be counted on. Sanitarium, memoryproblem's obnoxious alliance. I didn't like that one at all. But I still respected them. They had grit at least, and courage. Even CoJ I can respect.

Respect isn't something I just give because you're on my "side." I've never bought into that nonsense. It is earned, and Legion has consistently demonstrated that it has done nothing to earn anyone's respect.[/color]

[Lincongrad]

Thanks for splitting the thread. That could have gotten way out of hand.

[Unknown Smurf]

[size="1"] Good call taking it out of that thread[/size]

Like I said in the post you quoted, but snipped out, I was not in Legion at the time and cannot speak for what they did in DH-NPO. What I meant by that comment that the Legion today is not the same Legion it was during said conflict and they should not continue to be compared to that alliance.

I do recognize that people will continue to look at them as they are that alliance still though as that is how CN is. It's a matter of time, but the legion will continue to strive towards the level I am on (perfection).

Edited October 20, 2011 by Unknown Smurf

[Kzoppistan]

*Yawn*

RV, take it somewhere else. Come to our forums, or invite some one to yours. Or do the PM thing. The OWF isn't interested in hearing the same old mudslinging ad nauseam. You got facts, yadda yadda.

For the sake of the audience, give 'em a break.

Not only am I an entertainer of the peanut gallery, I'm also a member.

Keep it fresh, buddy.

[TehChron]

[quote name='Kzoppistan' timestamp='1319082039' post='2829015']
*Yawn*

RV, take it somewhere else. Come to our forums, or invite some one to yours. Or do the PM thing. The OWF isn't interested in hearing the same old mudslinging ad nauseam. You got facts, yadda yadda.

For the sake of the audience, give 'em a break.

Not only am I an entertainer of the peanut gallery, I'm also a member.

Keep it fresh, buddy.
[/quote]
Wow.

How considerate of you. I didn't realize you were on such intimate terms with the OWF.

Man, its really sad to see people playing the "indifferent" card when they've spent such effort into making a fuss on the subject theyre now claiming to be apathetic towards. I mean, it's almost like they're insulting people's intelligence.

That being said, so long as people are discussing it here on the OWF, I think its entirely appropriate that it have its own thread for discussion, rather than being delegated to a random derail of another topic.

If you don't like the fact that you can't talk your way out of it, get better at spinning, my offer still stands, you know.

That too, being said, I wasn't there for the event in question, but based on the people Ive spoken to, the general impression is that what RV's saying is completely accurate. So Im gonna go with the common consensus on this one.

Edit: I hate repetition

Edited October 20, 2011 by TehChron

[Unknown Smurf]

EDIT: Taking the following conversation out from stat thread, posts quoted for reference purposes.

[quote name='TehChron' timestamp='1319081355' post='2829002']
Um.

Yeah. Sure. Ok, because it's not like the only reason so many Legionarres arent following suit is from the massive aid trains Polars sending to you guys[b] while the NSO is being left out in the cold, aid-wise.[/b] I mean, damn, most Legionarres have larger warchests now then they started the war off with, thanks to that.

It's easy to avoid ZI when you get a free 12-15 mil a round in order to buy yourself back up, you know? Problem is that so many of you all spend it on getting 50 CMs or whatever in the 3k NS range. So...yeah, you go boasting about that ZI, guy. [b]At least the NSO didnt have to go begging daddy Polar[/b] for a handout when things went south for your collective wallets.

Not to mention how easy it is to keep said money and infra when all you guys do is turtle with only hurling CMs and bombing runs. Although I can see why you would do that collectively (its a good strategy, given your position), it's hardly anything worth boasting about.
[/quote]


[quote name='Unknown Smurf' timestamp='1319081560' post='2829005']
Yes you went to Daddy RoK and Mama Asgaard instead... (or maybe RoK is mama and Asgaard is papi.. idk. )
[/quote]


[quote name='TehChron' timestamp='1319081801' post='2829009']
[b]Only after you[/b] went begging because people who were only marginal participants at best in the war were being bankrolled.

How terrible. You were being so badly smacked around by IAA and their GATO/TLR aid trains that you just [b]needed[/b] Polar to even the odds for you.

No, but please, continue bragging about asking for handouts when it became clear you couldnt keep yourselves funded. [b]Nothing wrong with us also going for whatever advantages we can[/b] when the Legion decided to find someone to bankroll their turtling strategy.
[/quote]


[quote name='Unknown Smurf' timestamp='1319082035' post='2829014']
Last I checked, [url=http://www.cybernations.net/search_aid.asp?search=459627&Extended=1]Oct. 10th[/url] is before [url=http://www.cybernations.net/search_aid.asp?search=473858&Extended=1]10/13[/url].
[/quote]


[quote name='TehChron' timestamp='1319082817' post='2829030']
What do two random shots of aid prove, exactly?

I mean, theres pretty clear evidence of Polar doing mass aids like the latter one all across the board for Legion members, but the NSO hasn't seen anything of the kind. Not to mention, the whole announcement thing.

I would love to hear your rationalization for how a few random shots of cash equate to an alliance-wide aid chain between Ragnarok and ourselves. Im always up for something good to read.
[/quote]


That was the first aid from RoK to NSO and the first from NpO to Legion respectively. Feel free to check the aid screens for confirmation.

Edited October 20, 2011 by Unknown Smurf

[Kzoppistan]

[quote name='TehChron' timestamp='1319082472' post='2829024']
Wow.

How considerate of you. I didn't realize you were on such intimate terms with the OWF. [/quote]

Of course I'm intimate with the OWF. Don't you know who the $%&@ I am?

[quote]
Man, its really sad to see people playing the "indifferent" card when they've spent such effort into making a fuss on the subject theyre now claiming to be apathetic towards. I mean, it's almost like they're insulting people's intelligence.[/quote]

The only people making a fuss about it is you guys. And the only thing insulting to people's intelligence is that you keep trying to bring up history to detract from your current asskicking. You're scrambling.

[quote]That being said, so long as people are discussing it here on the OWF, I think its entirely appropriate that it have its own thread for discussion, rather than being delegated to a random derail of another topic.[/quote]

Well, if it's that important to your cathartic healing process- since you been nursing this butthurt for months now, well, have a ball. Maybe once you get it all out of your system you can concentrate on something even remotely interesting. Like fighting.


[quote]
If you don't like the fact that you can't talk your way out of it, get better at spinning, my offer still stands, you know. [/quote] Still stings a bit, does it?

[quote]
That being said, I wasn't there for the event in question, but based on the people Ive spoken to, the general impression is that what RV's saying is completely accurate. So Im gonna go with the common consensus on this one.
[/quote]

I guess if that's all you got, why take it away from you, eh?

Well, give it a rip. Enjoy your mental masturbation. I'm going to leave it to those that were there.

[quote][b]A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.[/b][/quote]

Edited October 20, 2011 by Kzoppistan

[Unknown Smurf]

[quote name='Kzoppistan' timestamp='1319083080' post='2829037']
The only people making a fuss about it is you guys. And the only thing insulting to people's intelligence is that you keep trying to bring up history to detract from your current asskicking. You're scrambling.
[/quote]

Bringing up history wrongly I might add. Considering your alliance (NSO) got aid drops from RoK 3 days before we got anything from Polaris, I would imagine that TehChron is attempting to insult everyone else's intelligence by implying they can't remember a week ago...

EDIT: Unclear pronoun clarified via parenthesis above.

Edited October 20, 2011 by Unknown Smurf

[Mergerberger II]

Oh awesome, a conversation about a situation where everyone agreed Legion performed poorly, so that we can remind everyone that Legion is terrible and distract everyone from the fact that they are currently doing pretty well against NSO, Tetris, NsO, BTA, and (kind of) IAA.

[TehChron]

[quote name='Unknown Smurf' timestamp='1319083211' post='2829038']
Bringing up history wrongly I might add. Considering your alliance (NSO) got aid drops from RoK 3 days before we got anything from Polaris, I would imagine that TehChron is attempting to insult everyone else's intelligence by implying they can't remember a week ago...

EDIT: Unclear pronoun clarified via parenthesis above.
[/quote]
Ill say it again:

Begging Polar to mass-aid you isnt equivalent to a couple of random aid packages being sent from RoK. If all you can do is set up straw mans, then by all means, keep wasting your time.

[quote]Of course I'm intimate with the OWF. Don't you know who the $%&@ I am?[/quote]A budget-priced version of myself or RV, with half the spinning ability and twice the u mad bro.
[quote]The only people making a fuss about it is you guys. And the only thing insulting to people's intelligence is that you keep trying to bring up history to detract from your current asskicking. You're scrambling.[/quote]Do you [i]really[/i] want to make such a bold blanket statement?

All I have to do is quote Unknown Smurf, or Sabcat, or that lovely Proconsul of yours crying martyr about it, and you'll wind up looking pretty silly, you know? Although I could find a quote from you and really have something ironic on my hands.

[quote]Well, if it's that important to your cathartic healing process- since you been nursing this butthurt for months now, well, have a ball. Maybe once you get it all out of your system you concentrated on something even remotely interesting. Like fighting.[/quote] Wow, ignoring your own alliance mates? Throwing them under the rhetorical bus? Thats cold, man.

No, but really, you seem to have a severe case of u mad? You may want to get that checked on.

[quote]Still stings a bit, does it? [/quote]Like I said, low-budget. If you can do something well, why would you do it for free?

[quote]I guess if that's all you got, why take it away from you, eh?

Well, give it a rip. Enjoy your mental masturbation. I'm going to leave it to those that were there.[/quote]lol, coming from the guy spouting absolute statements, and who is completely ignoring the existence of his alliance mates who are trying to contradict the people that were actually there.

You're really a riot, Kzopp. I look forward to your future work as well.
[quote]
A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.[/quote]lol

Ironic on so many levels. Not the least of which is because you didn't even cite the quote, nor that Im the furthest thing from that definition.

No, Kzopp, the reason that it's so ironic is because all you're doing is focusing on a single subject, and doggedly refusing to acknowledge the existence of context that may potentially contradict your opinion on said subject.

I love unintentional irony. It's the best kind.

[Drai]

The upper NS Legions I fought were about average for that side (which is pretty damn bad). About half of them had alright-decent warchests and the rest were hugely underprepared. I think maybe 2 of them coordinated and that was it.

[blueski]

I'm quite proud of the four Legion nations that went defunct at some point after I fought them.

[Rebel Virginia]

[quote name='Mergerberger II' timestamp='1319083969' post='2829043']
Oh awesome, a conversation about a situation where everyone agreed Legion performed poorly, so that we can remind everyone that Legion is terrible and distract everyone from the fact that they are currently doing pretty well against NSO, Tetris, NsO, BTA, and (kind of) IAA.
[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]Yes, Legion is performing remarkably well against an alliance half its size. They have exceeded all expectations. Where has anyone denied? Even I have admitted that Legion has demonstrated a surprising amount of competence in spite of itself.

But this is not at all about the current war. This about the underlying issue. Legion performed poorly in that war, yes, we all know that. Yet the refuse to admit it. That I could simply laugh off and ignore, if not for the fact that they called the NSO an alliance of cowards. An alliance that fought for two-months while they hid away in peace mode. No, that is an affront upon my honor.

Perform if I were a Legionnaire I would simply accept the slap in the face, but I am a Sith, and we have always had pride. Legion could have ended it months ago, if only the had the humility to accept that they had wronged us and that they had insulted not only us but the entire rest of of the coalition. They were too proud for that though. They continued to insult and to provoke us.

I am giving them the chance to end this. I am giving them a chance to earn my peace, and my respect, and to put this to rest for once and for all. It is a generous offer, and a reasonable one, if only they'll be level-headed enough to realize it. They need only admit they performed poorly during the last war, and that they were cowards. And apologize for the slight on NSO's honor. That is all. Nothing extreme. All I want is a bit of humility from Legion.[/color]

[Kzoppistan]

Oh, think you've got a bone to chew on, do you? Well have fun, I'm pretty tired of pointless pissing matches.

[quote name='TehChron' timestamp='1319084429' post='2829046']
A budget-priced version of myself or RV, with half the spinning ability and twice the u mad bro.[/quote]

Ha ha, that's pretty good. But you're not even close in the league of RV. Or myself. Luckily, I don't have to spin anything as the truth makes a pretty persuasive argument.

Frankly, I don't care one way or the other if "u mad". Happy, sad, mad, I don't really care.


[quote]
Do you [i]really[/i] want to make such a bold blanket statement?

All I have to do is quote Unknown Smurf, or Sabcat, or that lovely Proconsul of yours crying martyr about it, and you'll wind up looking pretty silly, you know? Although I could find a quote from you and really have something ironic on my hands.
[/quote]
Blah blah blah

[quote]
Wow, ignoring your own alliance mates? Throwing them under the rhetorical bus? Thats cold, man.[/quote]

They're smart guys, if they want to argue 'till the cows come home, they're certainly free to do so.

[quote]
No, but really, you seem to have a severe case of u mad? You may want to get that checked on.[/quote]
blah blah blah

[quote]
lol, coming from the guy spouting absolute statements, and who is completely ignoring the existence of his alliance mates who are trying to contradict the people that were actually there.[/quote]
I feel like I've been pretty even handed about things. I just don't see any point in dragging up some talking point about poor war performance so you can feel better about yourself.

You should try looking at the positive things in life, little buddy, all that Sith angst must be a tired burden to bear all the time.

[quote]
You're really a riot, Kzopp. I look forward to your future work as well.
lol[/quote]

Thanks. I'm here all night. Tip your waitress.

[quote]
Ironic on so many levels. Not the least of which is because you didn't even cite the quote, nor that Im the furthest thing from that definition.[/quote]
It's Winston Churchill.

[quote]
No, Kzopp, the reason that it's so ironic is because all you're doing is focusing on a single subject, and doggedly refusing to acknowledge the existence of context that may potentially contradict your opinion on said subject.[/quote]

Mergerberger II said it better than I. I've already tried to come halfway a number of times, you're only interest is defamation. So, knock yourself out.

[quote]
I love unintentional irony. It's the best kind.
[/quote]
blah blah blah

Edited October 20, 2011 by Kzoppistan

[Unknown Smurf]

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1319085687' post='2829071']
[color="#0000FF"]Yes, Legion is performing remarkably well against an alliance half its size. They have exceeded all expectations. Where has anyone denied? Even I have admitted that Legion has demonstrated a surprising amount of competence in spite of itself.

But this is not at all about the current war. This about the underlying issue. Legion performed poorly in that war, yes, we all know that. Yet the refuse to admit it. That I could simply laugh off and ignore, if not for the fact that they called the NSO an alliance of cowards. An alliance that fought for two-months while they hid away in peace mode. No, that is an affront upon my honor.

Perform if I were a Legionnaire I would simply accept the slap in the face, but I am a Sith, and we have always had pride. Legion could have ended it months ago, if only the had the humility to accept that they had wronged us and that they had insulted not only us but the entire rest of of the coalition. They were too proud for that though. They continued to insult and to provoke us.

I am giving them the chance to end this. I am giving them a chance to earn my peace, and my respect, and to put this to rest for once and for all. It is a generous offer, and a reasonable one, if only they'll be level-headed enough to realize it. They need only admit they performed poorly during the last war, and that they were cowards. And apologize for the slight on NSO's honor. That is all. Nothing extreme. All I want is a bit of humility from Legion.[/color]
[/quote]

EDIT: I should sleep, I see that is exactly what you meant

Edited October 20, 2011 by Unknown Smurf

[Unknown Smurf]

[quote name='TehChron' timestamp='1319084429' post='2829046']
Begging Polar to mass-aid you isnt equivalent to a couple of random aid packages being sent from RoK. If all you can do is set up straw mans, then by all means, keep wasting your time. [/quote]

I'd hardly call 47 aid packages of 3mill+2000 soldiers a "couple of random aid packages."

[quote]All I have to do is quote Unknown Smurf, or Sabcat, or that lovely Proconsul of yours crying martyr about it, and you'll wind up looking pretty silly, you know? Although I could find a quote from you and really have something ironic on my hands.[/quote]

Please do quote me "crying martyr." I look forward to it as I haven't seen it myself.

[quote] Wow, ignoring your own alliance mates? Throwing them under the rhetorical bus? Thats cold, man.[/quote]

You do well [url=http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=105774&view=findpost&p=2828200]making an ass of your alliance-mates as well. [/url]

[quote]I love unintentional irony. It's the best kind.
[/quote]

[Schattenmann]

Dear NSO,

Cult of Justitia was the second-smallest alliance in the NPO coalition. We followed the "plan," we lost half our membership, we had no allies to leverage in peace talks, and we didn't make any new friends for taking our whipping like good boys.
Like NSO, we were also baffled and pissed off by Legion's inexplicable and sudden absence from coalition channels, over-defensive stance and threats to go solo when they showed up again, and apparent inability or refusal to deploy their nations.
We fought longer than NSO, lost more of every AA metric, paid twice as many reps, and while you were two months into rebuilding, we were just getting peace on condition of apologizing for making statements of fact. On an OAODP. As a matter of principle in the only realization of Moldavi's doctrine.

Despite all that, we are over the Legion crap. You should be, too. I'm actually kind of tired of hearing about it.

Edited October 20, 2011 by Schattenmann

[TehChron]

[quote name='Unknown Smurf' timestamp='1319087115' post='2829087']
I'd hardly call 47 aid packages of 3mill+2000 soldiers a "couple of random aid packages."[/quote] Are we still talking about some kind of imagined "massive aid train" that RoK sent to us on the 10th? Pretty clear that by and large, only a fraction of those packages were sent before Polars bailout for you guys.

Honestly.


[quote]
Please do quote me "crying martyr." I look forward to it as I haven't seen it myself. [/quote] Neither you nor sabcat did, it was your proconsul that did, however. That's why I made that one complete phrase on the list, rather than separating his name from it and implying all three of you did so.

[quote]
You do well [url=http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=105774&view=findpost&p=2828200]making an ass of your alliance-mates as well. [/url]
[/quote]Not...really, no.

And considering the context of what you're referring to (you getting yourself banned on our forums) you can't really equate the two. Again.

[quote='Kzoppistan']Ha ha, that's pretty good. But you're not even close in the league of RV. Or myself. Luckily, I don't have to spin anything as the truth makes a pretty persuasive argument.
[/quote]
That's very true. It's why I enjoy pointing it out whenever someone tries to claim otherwise.

And Kzopp, please. You're really not that good at this. Smurf is doing a far better job, and you should take some pointers from him.

[quote]Mergerberger II said it better than I. I've already tried to come halfway a number of times, you're only interest is defamation. So, knock yourself out.[/quote]Then show 3 examples of you "trying to come halfway". Because, honestly? You've been nothing but stubborn about this.

All you're interested in is entrenching the idea that Legion is blameless, and refusing to acknowledge otherwise. You can hardly call yourself even handed or accuse anyone else of being only caring about a closed-minded perspective.

Edit: Quote tags

Edited October 20, 2011 by TehChron

[Rebel Virginia]

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1319089139' post='2829105']
Dear NSO,

Cult of Justitia was the second-smallest alliance in the NPO coalition. We followed the "plan", we lost half our membership, we had no allies to leverage in peace talks.
Like NSO, we were also baffled and pissed off by Legion's inexplicable and sudden absence from coalition channels, over-defensive stance and threats to go solo when they showed up again, and apparent inability or refusal to deploy their nations.
We fought longer than NSO, lost more of every AA metric, paid twice as many reps, and while you were two months into rebuilding, we were just getting peace on condition of apologizing for making statements of fact. On an OAODP. As a matter of principle in the only realization of Moldavi's doctrine.

We are over the Legion crap. You should be, too. I'm actually kind of tired of hearing about it.
[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]When Legion ends its gloating over its "success" in that war and apologizes for its insulting of the New Sith Order, then this can finally be put to rest. Believe me, my dear Schattenmann, I too tire of this fight. I would like nothing more than to make my personal peace with Legion, but it cannot happen until Legion demonstrates some humility.[/color]

[TehChron]

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1319089139' post='2829105']


We are over the Legion crap. You should be, too. I'm actually kind of tired of hearing about it.
[/quote]
Did The Legion call CoJ cowards at any point, out of curiosity?

[Unknown Smurf]

[quote name='TehChron' timestamp='1319089323' post='2829107']
Are we still talking about some kind of imagined "massive aid train" that RoK sent to us on the 10th? Pretty clear that by and large, only a fraction of those packages were sent before Polars bailout for you guys.

Honestly.[/quote]

21 were sent before polar sent aid.

[quote]And considering the context of what you're referring to (you getting yourself banned on our forums) you can't really equate the two. Again.[/quote]

You know as well as I do I don't deserve that ban

[quote]And Kzopp, please. You're really not that good at this. Smurf is doing a far better job, and you should take some pointers from him.[/quote]
Why thank you. Again I blame the drugs/alcohol

[Schattenmann]

[quote name='TehChron' timestamp='1319089592' post='2829110']
Did The Legion call CoJ cowards at any point, out of curiosity?
[/quote]
I would have to qualify a "no" by pointing out that CoJ never bandwagoned Legion, didn't surrender before Legion, and hasn't been antagonizing or spying on Legion, so Legion has never had a reason to call us any names.

Edited October 20, 2011 by Schattenmann

[Unknown Smurf]

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1319089447' post='2829109']
[color="#0000FF"]When Legion ends its gloating over its "success" in that war and apologizes for its insulting of the New Sith Order, then this can finally be put to rest. Believe me, my dear Schattenmann, I too tire of this fight. I would like nothing more than to make my personal peace with Legion, but it cannot happen until Legion demonstrates some humility.[/color]
[/quote]

To be fair, I don't ever recall Legion gloating over its successes in that (the DH-NPO) war...

[Enrage]

I could of sworn you made multiple Legion threads exactly like this one within the past 10 weeks.
Also I have never seen so much hate towards an alliance before during my 2+ years here on CN.

Edited October 20, 2011 by Enrage

[TehChron]

[quote name='Unknown Smurf' timestamp='1319089742' post='2829113']
21 were sent before polar sent aid.
[/quote] So 3 or 4 nations worth of slots? Thats pretty small.


[quote]You know as well as I do I don't deserve that ban [/quote] *shrugs* They dont usually act on a hair trigger. And to be fair, I didnt know the context when I said that.


[quote]Why thank you. Again I blame the drugs/alcohol
[/quote]And again, it can only be blamed for so much.