A Message to Acti from Olympus.

[Hecate]

[b]This is a reminder that mentioning OOC attacks and IC in this thread WILL result in warns if it continues to be mentioned. Adhere to the OOC/IC line.[/b]

[Salmia]

An attack on the leader of an alliance is an attack on the alliance, since when does that change? If someone attacked the President of IRON, you can bet that is an attack on IRON as a whole. While I won't comment on the CB, the only reason people aren't complaining about it or arguing is it because it is AcTi and AcTi in general is... terrible. AcTi does have a right to respond when their member/leader is attacked, alliances do have sovereignty regardless of how terrible they may be. Does it mean it'll make a difference? Of course not. Does it make the CB less justified? Of course not. A CB only has to be justifiable to the person conducting the attacks.

Either way, best of luck to all parties getting this resolved.

[Believland]

Everytime I see 'Olympus' I read it as, 'Octopus'.

[xR1 Fatal Instinct]

[quote name='Gibsonator21' timestamp='1311863485' post='2766177']
That doesn't tell me anything. There is no possible way Bat saw Olympus declaring on AcTi for OOC attacks.
[/quote]

He recognized enough to militarize his alliance 70k ns.

[Lord Boris]

[quote name='Alterego' timestamp='1311808070' post='2765613']
You the expert in CBs? Your alliance attacked NPO for no reason at all in the last war. They were sitting minding their business doing nothing and your alliance attacked them. [b]Perhaps you haven’t noticed but Olympus did not declare war on AcTi so drop the CB bs argument.[/b] They hit one guy for his actions and it was well deserved.
[/quote]

Cut the !@#$, Alterego. That line is seriously the worst line of spin attempt I've seen in this entire thread, and that's saying quite a bit considering the spin machines here are running like a laundromat after a mud volleyball tournament. When you attack a member of an alliance's government and make no discernible efforts to remedy things via alternative means other than deciding to attack, you've declared on the alliance. You can try to dodge the argument all you want, but it doesn't change what it ultimately boils down to.

[ChairmanHal]

[quote name='Salmia' timestamp='1311868113' post='2766221']
An attack on the leader of an alliance is an attack on the alliance, since when does that change? If someone attacked the President of IRON, you can bet that is an attack on IRON as a whole. [/quote]

They are free to interpret it that way, yes. As a rule however when a substantial alliance chooses to send in people against one nation and only one nation, as I stated above, that's generally a sign that one individual did something to seriously annoy that alliance and it would be wise to figure out why one of yours is being singled out before committing the entire alliance to war, assuming you don't already know what the reason might be.

Classic case from the 2007 FAN War: A nation in OBR provided aid to a member of FAN. That member was subsequently attacked and quickly anarchied by a member of \m/. OBR could have declared war on \m/ immediately or counterattacked the attacking \m/ nation, but instead chose to investigate the cause of the attack. When the aid to a FAN nation was revealed, the matter was settled diplomatically rather than by force of arms.

[quote]While I won't comment on the CB, the only reason people aren't complaining about it or arguing is it because it is AcTi and AcTi in general is... terrible. AcTi does have a right to respond when their member/leader is attacked, alliances do have sovereignty regardless of how terrible they may be. Does it mean it'll make a difference? Of course not. Does it make the CB less justified? Of course not. A CB only has to be justifiable to the person conducting the attacks. [/quote]

What was said (and I'll not go into detail here) could be interpreted as "fighting words". Maybe to some that's not a good CB, but I think it works here, AcTi or someone else.

[erikz]

Haha acti. Thats what you get from getting OOC business ingame. Good luck getting crushed to powder. I hope Olympus gives you a !@#$%* 6 months or so.

[janax]

[quote name='President S O' timestamp='1311834189' post='2766010']

[b]AcTi has a treaty, they just haven't activated it. They probably know how dumb it would be to do that.[/b] I don't recall any member of Umbrella or other alliances making the remarks Batallion made, therefore they didn't need to be dealt with.

[/quote]

Now, I like Pansy and all and Battallion deserves to be rolled...but don't think for moment the reason no treaties have been activated has anything to do with Olympus or any of the allies they might call in.
As much as I despise Battalion, had this been a repeat of Thriller, a treaty would have been activated with no warning this time.

Attacking a member of AcTi, no matter if justified or not (pick your side, I don't much care) is an attack on AcTi. AlteredRealityEgo can argue it however he likes. Olympus declared war on AcTi, they just chose to minimize the damage to the alliance as a whole.

[2burnt2eat]

It's funny because the last time people were complaining they were hitting the entire alliance rather than just Batallion. Doing it this way has generated noticeably less complaints though.

[hizzy]

goddamn the amount of stupid itt is unreal.

1) Olympus: you guys are complete retards (or just really good at pretending to be retards) if you're surprised that AcTi counter-declared on you. Seriously just stfu and accept that you attacked an alliance.

2) Alterego: i should know better than to even bother reasoning with you but $%&@ it. regardless of whether or not Teddy regrets "attacking" (lol) Olympus, it was still stupid to attack an alliance's leader and expect everyone to idly sit by. Sure, they [i]might[/i] sit by, but they'd have equal right to rape your rectum.

and yes, Gibsonator is CSN's best FA guy. otoh, he's [i]CSN's[/i] best FA guy and the only shoes he's had to fill were Liz's, which are probably really !@#$@#$ tiny (being a girl and all).

btw here's a helpful tip for everyone; if your lifestyle is even slightly unusual IRL, stfu and dont share it online unless you're willing to deal with the idiots who are going to make fun of you for it.

[Bob Janova]

You declared war over just those logs? How pathetic. And what a surprise, you didn't declare on any nations that have been joining in the mocking (lol wickedj) that are in an alliance that might hurt your precious pixels.

And yes, Alterego is being ridiculous. I'm sure if I declared on a member of whatever alliance he is in, he'd be claiming that was an act of war against the alliance, and rightly so.

[Sibre]

[quote name='hizzy' timestamp='1311876989' post='2766287'] 1) Olympus: you guys are complete retards (or just really good at pretending to be retards) if you're surprised that AcTi counter-declared on you. Seriously just stfu and accept that you attacked an alliance.[/quote]

You might want to check the thread again. Where was Olympus surprised that they counter attacked? Or even against the fact?

Personally I don't think AcTi should be throwing their nations away to defend Bat, but it is certainly an option for them. While it is regrettable, I don't think they broke any unspoken rules or anything like that. They had a choice and they made a decision. Simple as that.

[hizzy]

[quote name='Sibre' timestamp='1311877406' post='2766291']
You might want to check the thread again. Where was Olympus surprised that they counter attacked? Or even against the fact?

Personally I don't think AcTi should be throwing their nations away to defend Bat, but it is certainly an option for them. While it is regrettable, I don't think they broke any unspoken rules or anything like that. They had a choice and they made a decision. Simple as that.
[/quote]

maybe "surprised" is the wrong word but they sure as hell seem offended that people are seeing this as an attack on AcTi as a whole.

edit: not to mention that having Alterego on your side makes you wrong by default so there's that

Edited July 28, 2011 by hizzy

[D34th]

[quote name='Ryan Greenberg' timestamp='1311833186' post='2766005']
People arguing over CBs? We are in the age of no CB. We should all be hailing Olympus and not just for rolling AcTi because of Batallion's attitude. Wars are a rarity these days.
[/quote]

I'll happily not contest the CBs when the wars are more than just lame curbstomps, however, I totally agree with this specific CB, the only thing that make me sad is the fact that if the offending member was in other alliance who posed a real threat to Olympus I'm [b]100% sure[/b] that they wouldn't have declared war.

[Alterego]

[quote name='Bob Janova' timestamp='1311877175' post='2766289']
You declared war over just those logs? How pathetic.
[/quote]
Im sure VE bob would have thought the opposite

[queenhailee]

[quote name='hizzy' timestamp='1311878575' post='2766305']
maybe "surprised" is the wrong word but they sure as hell seem offended that people are seeing this as an attack on AcTi as a whole.
*snip*[/quote]
Some people seem "surprised" or "offended" Olympus is neither.

Certainly, we knew the potential outcomes of our course of action and we prepared for them. We offered the rest of AcTi a way out if they chose. Teddyyo did not escalate the hostilities with his thread. He has shown that Batallion had already ordered the alliance to war. That's one difference between Bat and I. If I had done something for which I deserved punishment (or someone thought I did badly enough to seek war), I would take that punishment and tell my brothers and sisters it was my bad and my pain to bear on my own. And I'd use my best foot-stomping ability and patented squinty eyed looks to get them to let me take it alone.

Batallion has a history of making big mistakes. But you know what? He knew this was in the works. And this time he didn't flee to peace-mode and allow his folks to take the damage alone. He also has a far better war chest than he's had in the past. He took people's criticism and advice to heart and did make changes for the better. He has a way to go (but then, don't we all?) But one has to respect that he's set out on that journey.

AcTi has ridden to war because they were ordered to. Perhaps they knew of the safety net, or perhaps that information was withheld from them. Neither really matters, they can hold their heads high for defending their AA. Now that they know the "out" is available, they have the information they need so they can make the best decision for themselves.

No. Olympus isn't shocked or offended. They're doing what they need to do, just as we are.

[Grendel]

[quote name='janax' timestamp='1311874626' post='2766268']Olympus declared war on AcTi, they just chose to minimize the damage to the alliance as a whole.[/quote]

I believe janax gets it. While there is a semantic difference between his view and my view, the meat of what he says here is as close as anyone has gotten here to the truth, other then those directly involved.

Regardless of our justification for hostilities we decided, as a family [alliance your choice], that we were going after Battalion. That simple, he, was/is going to give up the proverbial "pound of flesh" for his actions. We knew he was a member and the assumed leader of AcTi when we made our decision. We fully understood that the members of AcTi could take this as an attack on them and may in turn counter our Declarations on Battalion. What we did was provide a potential out for all other members besides Battalion to avoid fighting with us. It was quite clear in our OP that we would only escalate to other members of AcTi if they countered the attacks on Battalion. Well members of AcTi did counter and further escalate now to the point of using nukes. We understood that was a risk and were comfortable with that risk so we did what we did and AcTi did what they did. We hold no remorse over our decision and do not fault any of the members of AcTi for their actions since we declared on Battalion.

Damn QH beat me to the punch :|

Edited July 28, 2011 by Grendel

[Heft]

Olympus could have tried talking to AcTi before declaring war on its leader. That would have made sense.

The responsibility for this war and its "escalation" lies with Olympus.

[Alterego]

[quote name='Heft' timestamp='1311890038' post='2766427']
Olympus could have tried talking to AcTi before declaring war on its leader. That would have made sense.

The responsibility for this war and its "escalation" lies with Olympus.
[/quote]
The leader is Bat and the 2ic said he hasnt been around for about a month. The eventual attempt to talk was sabotaged by Bat. I guess he wanted to watch his alliance die rather than disband.

[Indian Bob]

who would you have suggested they talk to? should they talk to the guy who's already insulted them and encouraged them to attack or should they bypass the leader in hopes of starting a coup. you guys would then be giving them crap for meddling in the sovereign affairs of another alliance.

let's get it straight, olympus has repeatedly said that they have no problem with the "escalation" as it's a logical result of attacking a member of that alliance. that does not mean that they wouldn't have preferred that acti's membership didn't have to suffer for their tool of a leader.

[Vladius Dreadfire]

OOC reasons for IC attacks will never go down well. The OOC should be kept well, well away from the IC spectrum, since the two have very little bearing on one another; what happens OOC has nothing to do with what happens IC and vice versa...or so it should be.

On the other hand, OOC attacks are pretty intolerable and some form of punishment is usually quite well-warranted. Of course, since OOC punishment is not really possible, IC punishment makes the most sense.

Heh.

Good luck Olympus. Burn 'em down.

[xoindotnler]

[quote name='Indian Bob' timestamp='1311891182' post='2766434'] or should they bypass the leader in hopes of starting a coup.
[/quote]
Been there done that, and the results are a bit disappointing.

[MaGneT]

[quote name='queenhailee' timestamp='1311880254' post='2766321']
Some people seem "surprised" or "offended" Olympus is neither.

Certainly, we knew the potential outcomes of our course of action and we prepared for them. We offered the rest of AcTi a way out if they chose. Teddyyo did not escalate the hostilities with his thread. He has shown that Batallion had already ordered the alliance to war. That's one difference between Bat and I. If I had done something for which I deserved punishment (or someone thought I did badly enough to seek war), I would take that punishment and tell my brothers and sisters it was my bad and my pain to bear on my own. And I'd use my best foot-stomping ability and patented squinty eyed looks to get them to let me take it alone.

Batallion has a history of making big mistakes. But you know what? He knew this was in the works. And this time he didn't flee to peace-mode and allow his folks to take the damage alone. He also has a far better war chest than he's had in the past. He took people's criticism and advice to heart and did make changes for the better. He has a way to go (but then, don't we all?) But one has to respect that he's set out on that journey.

AcTi has ridden to war because they were ordered to. Perhaps they knew of the safety net, or perhaps that information was withheld from them. Neither really matters, they can hold their heads high for defending their AA. Now that they know the "out" is available, they have the information they need so they can make the best decision for themselves.

No. Olympus isn't shocked or offended. They're doing what they need to do, just as we are.
[/quote]
I don't know you, nor have I ever seen your post. Based on this, you should more. Hats off. Classy.

[RePePe]

[quote name='MaGneT' timestamp='1311892660' post='2766443']
I don't know you, nor have I ever seen your post. Based on this, you should more. Hats off. Classy.
[/quote]

Don't let her fool you. One transgression into her territory and you will not make it back out alive.

[President S O]

[quote name='Gibsonator21' timestamp='1311862087' post='2766154']
Please link me to where Teddy says Bat "plays" AcTi? Unless there's something that wasn't pointed out in the OP (which were OOC reasons), then it's just backtracking to try and save pixels. Defending your leader is never a mistake, there are very few exceptions to that.
[/quote]

That probably isn't posted here. But from my conversation with Teddyyo - he feels that way.


[quote name='janax' timestamp='1311874626' post='2766268']
[b]Now, I like Pansy and all and Battallion deserves to be rolled...but don't think for moment the reason no treaties have been activated has anything to do with Olympus or any of the allies they might call in.[/b]
As much as I despise Battalion, had this been a repeat of Thriller, a treaty would have been activated with no warning this time.

Attacking a member of AcTi, no matter if justified or not (pick your side, I don't much care) is an attack on AcTi. AlteredRealityEgo can argue it however he likes. Olympus declared war on AcTi, they just chose to minimize the damage to the alliance as a whole.
[/quote]

Not what I meant, janax. I think ConC and then yourselves wouldn't want to be involved in AcTi's rubbish.

As for all those saying "Olympus shouldn't be surprised AcTi responded" -- well we aren't. It was always AcTi's right to responded and defend their dear leader should they wish to. Olympus however, gave them the option not to - and no one else would be harmed. Its clearly outlined in the announcement.