Vladius Dreadfire

Made me chuckle, I have to admit. But these are getting old already.

[quote name='Ruler with Plan X' timestamp='1312387734' post='2770972'] Gather intelligence is not automatically a rogue action, spying away a nuke is a rogue action, gather intel is what you do at 2am when you're hammered and think it'll be funny. This is not the first time someone has done this. [/quote] Is that what they told you? That the guy was hammered and randomly spied a Fark nation? Maybe they did it for !@#$% and giggles? "Spy on Fark, they won't do anything, amirite?!" I hope you know that the people you're dealing with, those who used to be Poison Clan and IFOK, Hydra and SLCB, not a great many of them had much honour. [quote name='Diabloz' timestamp='1312387902' post='2770976'] Please don't talk about PR..most of NG government has years of experience and know what they are doing..so you don't have to worry about our PR its more than fine if that is whats bothering you.[/quote] Well you certainly don't know anything about PR, not after that bad case of Batman. You know exactly what I'm talking about. As for others in NG government...meh. Derwood and kriek maybe, everyone else, not so much. I mean, to be fair, they're just not really into PR. No-one can blame them to be honest. [quote]You really are butthurt. And Yes i am a 'wannabe' Mastermind. I think Pacifica does offer a lot of jobs and i advice you to get more stuff to do seen as you have so much time to show us how much butthurt you have right now.. [/quote] Erm...I'm not butthurt. Don't make me repeat myself, you blathering idiot. Ladies and gents, Diabloz is our first 10-year old wannabe criminal mastermind, give him a round of applause.

[quote name='erikz' timestamp='1312385488' post='2770944'] I don't know if you read zoom's, arexes's, xanders's and about a dozen comments made by others, but this situation was resolved between FARK and NG before Cynic did his attention whoring thingy. We discovered the spying and we went to FARK to explain the situation and apologised. Anyways, you call my alliance a bunch of idiots, but for someone who has English as his mothers' tongue you're quite the fool yourself, because the statements made in this thread by NG officials aren't hard to comprehend.... at all. [/quote] No I read them, but then I'd have to ask why is NG shifting stories? First you were all like "zomfg Cynic you !@#$%*, you leaked all that private stuff, pzi for u" then you were all "nonono Cynic is being punished for something he did way before" and now you're all "the two incidents are completely unrelated! we resolved one long before the other! whoop de doo!" Seriously folks, tone down the lies, it ain't helping with the way other alliances look at you. [quote name='kriekfreak' timestamp='1312385572' post='2770946'] Dude do you really not see the difference in what Cynic did and a freaking "Gather Intel" spy op? If not, I don't care if you write a whole bible about how you feel about this issue, you are dumb. [/quote] Why are you simplifying it so much, "dude"? Is NG becoming so desperate to save face that they have to reduce these incidents to their foundations? It seems that [i]you[/i] are the one who doesn't see the difference in what Cynic did and a "gather intel" spy op. See, if you actually stopped trying to make this look like it was nothing, you'd see that that little "gather intel" spy op was in fact, far more dangerous than what Cynic did. I can tell you now, if the offended alliance had been anyone but Fark, the offender would have been declared on and you guys would have been scrambling to avoid a war ( actually, given that you hadn't a clue what Fark would have done, you probably did scramble in the event). If anyone is going to keep questioning my line of argument, consider this for a moment. In your alliance, a low-ranking member of government exposes to the public an incident or two that could have thrown your alliance into a very sticky situation, complete with screens and logs. Naturally, you're pissed off like Diablo on steroids. But just mere days ago, your Minister of Defence, one of your most trusted members (he'd/she'd have to be to get to that position) attempted to spy on another alliance. It's always been considered that spying is an act of war, and you're now thinking [i]'this person's an absolute retard, they could have gotten us dragged into an alliance-shattering war'[/i]. Luckily, the alliance they spied on lets them off, but for good measure you kick the snivelling !@#$%^& out of government. Now, ask yourselves this: would you have punished the MoD more, or would you have punished Cynic more? One guy who tells the world about some private bits of info (which, as some NG members have made clear, aren't so private at all) or another guy who almost got your alliance rolled? Or hell, do you punish them both about the same amount?

[quote name='Trigger' timestamp='1312335997' post='2770599'] You really do come across as a flaming idiot. I don't even see the point of explaining it to you, because of your inability to understand basic concepts... but I'll try. First... Cynic being ZI'd has nothing to do with the Fark incident. The internal spying and log dumping to try and prevent a separate treaty from being signed is plenty of reason for that. Once that sentence was laid out, then this Fark issue was brought public. An issue that was already resolved in private channels. It really doesn't compare to past examples that are being thrown around because NG actually went to Fark with this information first. Second... What Cynic did was far worse in the eyes of most. Who do you think should deserve the most severe punishment? Cynic's crime was far worse in my eyes because he was a member of our family. He took that trust and crapped on it, leaking internal logs. The proposed treaty partner is the one that brought this to out attention. Read again that this was not involving Fark. Third... No one here really cares if you think the punishment is just. There are only two entities that matter here. NG for Cynic as we feel we were wronged by him. Fark for our member. No one else was affected by this. If Fark finds the situation resolved then thats all that matters. There should be no bawwwing or crying involved from the outside. No cries of "Hypocrocy"! Its only hypocritical if Fark handled this exact situation differently in the past. Fourth... you're a flaming idiot... can't say that enough. Edit: basic typos... I'm sure there are more... [/quote] Character attacks, how typical of someone with a low IQ. Fully expected from a member of Non Grata. Say what you will, it's clear that Cynic's sentence has been increased because of this Fark incident. But listen good, because you're not hearing what I'm saying: your MoD spied on a member of Fark, and he is recieveing a lenient punishment, Cynic exposed logs and such to the public so we can all get a look at what the fools in NG are really like, and he's recieving a harsh punishment. Now if it were me, I'd give my MoD the same punishment I am giving Cynic, because he knows better than to go and spy another alliance's member, a Farker at that. I don't care if Fark is lying down over the issue, my point is your MoD committed an act of war (a traitorous act in itself) but he't not even being subjected to a limited warfare op, merely a slap on the wrist. NG's idea of justice and fairness is so misguided it's unbelievable. Oh man, I want to laugh out loud at this second bit. Yeah, you're right, Cynic was a solid NG member who took your trust and crapped on it. Heh heh. Now, I appreciate your focus on Cynic, he has after all, royally $%&@ed up your PR, at least temporarily. But you seem to want to ignore the fact that your MoD was also a solid member of NG, and also took your trust and crapped on it when he made that spy op. Do you not realise he took a risk that could have destroyed NG? No, I don't think you do. Never mind eh. You're wrong there kiddo. You see, the thing about being one of the top strongest alliances is that you have a public face. There is a third entity that matters here, and it's the outside world, mkay? I mean, what are people going to think now that they know you let a spy off with nothing more than a kick up the backside? Hm? Do you think that in future, people will be more likely to sign treaties with you, or less? Does that even bother you at all? It should. If it doesn't, then there's something wrong with NG's FA skills. You are so lucky that Fark put the issue to rest and didn't roll the !@#$ out of your collective asses. There is no bawwing or crying from the outside. This is protestation; what you see is anger. If you can't recognise the difference between the two, you need to go back to school and learn about simple human emotions all over again. Erm...please point me to an instance of someone crying "Hypocrisy!". This is not a hypocritical issue, though there may be some double standard in there somewhere, given the attitudes of some of your merged members in the past. I'm an idiot huh? That's cute. You should take a look in the mirror before you say such silly things again. [quote name='Diabloz' timestamp='1312337324' post='2770616'] What is your point? again..i am still failing to see any point.. Are you affected in any of this by any chance? No...would be the answer. So why the !@%# would it mean anything to you? are you butthurt that FARK has accepted our apology? Seriously go find something to do..you really aren't saying anything that will make a difference.. Also you think we are unfair and unjust? Yes we are . We are evil... Deal with it! [/quote] That you still haven't grasped my point yet just goes to show what I mean by "fools in NG". I'm not physically affected, no. But you think I'm just going to sit by and watch as someone gets treated unfairly? $%&@ you if you think I will. If you (by you, I mean others, not just you Diabloz) think that because I'm from Pacifica, there is a shedload of hypocrisy coming out of my mouth, well $%&@ you. This is the new Pacifica, so either take your head out of your ass and stop living in the past, or keep spewing brown crap that is now two years old. No mate, I am most certainly not butthurt that Fark accepted their apology. Sure, I was hoping Fark might have the sense to come and rip NG's balls off and shove them down their throats but sadly Fark has, for a long time now, wished to avoid warfare. In my opinion, NG is lucky they accepted this apology. There we are, "we are unfair and unjust", "we are evil", "deal with it!". You sound like some ten-year old wannabe mastermind. But given that you are in fact, the Minister of Trades for Non Grata, I can safely assume this is the word of the government of NG? Rightio.

[quote name='Diabloz' timestamp='1312330009' post='2770485'] It's our alliance, we run it however we want. We punish people how we see is most fitting...Cynic has tried to sabotage a important treaty with our friends from happening, he log dumped some logs to try prove a point and cause NG harm.. You sir need to keep your big nose out of our business and go get something to do, you really aren't proving anything to me.. [/quote] Ahaha...yeah, everyone would say "this is our alliance, we can run it however we wanna run it". It's really nothing more than a way of saying "I don't have a way to match your argument so I'm just going to stuff my fingers in my ears and scream like a baby until you go away". Firstly, I doubt he tried to sabotage a treaty single-handedly, by posting some damning logs no less. He's not a retard, you know (actually, you probably think he is, just because he's your enemy now). In the event, he [i]has[/i] caused NG harm, seeing as everybody now knows that Non Grata will [s]allow it's members to get away with spying[/s] give lenient punishment to alliance spies (and spare me the !@#$%^&*, this guy was not some low-rank grunt, he was the !@#$@#$ Minister of Defence). And secondly, again "get your nose outta mah business" is the same as "this is our alliance, we can run it however we wanna run it". It's not going to work, so you need to give up and go home right now if you haven't got anything good to bring to the table.

[quote name='Diabloz' timestamp='1312327506' post='2770453'] The fact that a pacifican is calling for fairness just makes me think of you as hypocrite. Cynic was not punished because of the FARK incident and i think we have actually already stated that more than 10 times. I think you really need to go back and read the whole thread again. Cynic is just asking for attention nothing more, and trying to cause 'drama' in his failure way. [/quote] A Pacifican calling for justice is not allowed simply because he/she is a Pacifican? Grow the $%&@ up man. It doesn't disprove my point either, which is that in this situation, Cynic is being unjustly treated. Now, to be fair, I don't know the guy and I couldn't give two !@#$% about him. But it boils my blood when someone commits a frankly criminal act and gets a lenient punishment, say for example, if a thief gets eight years in jail but a murderer gets five. You follow my drift? I know you've repeated yourselves constantly but did you ever stop to think that maybe the reason you need to keep repeating stuff is because you're not actually answering the heart of the question(s)? In this incident, Cynic is the thief and Fear is the murderer. That my friend, is my problem. Can I do much about it? No. Can I argue the !@#$ out of this thing? Hell yes.

[quote name='Steve Buscemi' timestamp='1312323741' post='2770392'] Actually the fact you are still in the NPO means you have no personal beliefs. If you did, they kick you out. [/quote] I beg to differ. [quote name='Kalasin' timestamp='1312324694' post='2770415'] Oh for the love of [i]god[/i]. I'm sick to death of Pacificans playing the moralism card. It's hypocritical, dishonest and downright pathetic. The facade about feeling maltreated and oppressed fools nobody. With your spectacular history of callousness and apathy towards what is right and what is wrong, your real motivation behind this supposed change of heart is completely transparent. 'Full and fair justice'. Ha. [/quote] I have played no such card. Is it really so hard for you to accept the fact that someone in Pacifica really does believe in fairness and justice? "Aww noes, I'm so sad I didn't get to participate in over 9000 curbstomps four years ago, I'm so gutted I didn't get to bring the red jackboot down on pathetic little wormy alliances, I'm so friggin' upset I didn't get to shove my bloodstained pistol up the ass of some retarded leader and order him around under threat of having a bullet enter his anus and exit his mouth, aww maaaaan." If you're wanting to blame someone for that callousness, you're looking at the wrong Pacifican.

[quote name='kriekfreak' timestamp='1312312349' post='2770237'] Cynic was as guilty as Fear- was for the spy op on FARK. If you read them logs you will know. And even besides that, he did more than that, that would constitute a ZI alone. [/quote] Right, so they're both as guilty as each other, yet the guy whose offence is less (imho anyway) is getting punished more? Okeydokey. [quote name='Zoomzoomzoom' timestamp='1312312755' post='2770239'] Non Grata gov approached FARK before Cynic 'exposed' it. The situation was handled privately between FARK and NG gov. This entire topic has no point, other than an attempt at smearing our image and feeding Cynic's attention. Fear's punishment has been set, and since FARK chose not to pursue anything more over something as trivial as a "gather intel" operation we can all move on. EDIT: "trivial" as in not much to start a war over. Thought I should clarify that. I'm sure half of you will disagree though. [/quote] Right. Thanks for clearing that up. I still think Fear's punishment should be greater than Cynic's, given the many different potential repercussions that could have happened (e.g. NG getting rolled out like a pancake), but to each his own I suppose. [quote name='Arcturus Jefferson' timestamp='1312317354' post='2770292'] Don't worry, no one here is going to associate Pacifica with full and fair justice. [/quote] I didn't say anyone had to. I was merely making it clear to someone with a thick head how my being from the NPO has no bearing on my personal beliefs.

[quote name='Mixer' timestamp='1312310280' post='2770207'] I can answer that one for you. He's from NPO. [/quote] My being a Pacifican has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that I believe in full and fair justice. What I see here is far from that.

[quote name='Diabloz' timestamp='1312309891' post='2770201'] Thing is the offender has been punished, it was a mistake..and FARK understood that. I don't see why its bothering you? [/quote] Kicking him out of government was punishment enough for committing what is essentially an act of war? No reps? No limited warfare ops? Give me a break here. Why the hell did the dumb !@#$ do it in the first place, can anyone tell me that? What's bothering me is that Cynic, the guy who spotted and rightfully exposed this travesty, is now on the recieving end of a ZI order, whereas the person who committed the actual offence is being let off with such a lenient punishment it's not even funny.

[quote name='Diabloz' timestamp='1312306184' post='2770168'] You guys are missing the point of why Cynic has been punished.. Its not the FARK thing the biggest problem.. Its trying to sabotage a treaty and dumping logs. [/quote] Actually... The Fark thing [b]is[/b] the biggest problem, given that there have been extremely few times in the history of Bob when an alliance has taken a spy attack lying down. They haven't even punished the actual offender for $%&@ sake.

[quote name='the rebel' timestamp='1312290088' post='2770005'] So what i got from this whole thread is: [list] [*]Cynic's a whistleblower who happens to be a tiny nation and easy to give retribution. [*]X-NV-X the MoD of NG was doing the spying has a large nation and 11k tech and if they tried giving punishment would probably rip them a new arsehole. [*]Cynic is treated as the spy. [*]X-NV-X gets sacked from goverment? doesnt have to pay reps? doesnt get kicked from the alliance? [/list] So i can see where Cynic is coming from when the person who spied got a slap on the wrist... So either scared little kiddys to not give him more than a slap on the wrist or support the use of spy attacks within your alliance? [/quote] I was middle of the line earlier in the argument but I gotta say, this man talks real sense. Cynic gets the harsh treatment just for spotting and revealing this spying job, but the perpetrator gets off with nothing more than a telling off? Shouldn't this be be the other way around? By all means, inform me if I'm missing something, but it doesn't look pretty on NG's behalf right now. If Non Grata condones spying, just let us all know now rather than having us guess.

I certainly wasn't waiting for this. I'll bet that everyone who wished this "new" TGE luck at their reformation is feeling pretty stupid right about now. That being said, I'd like to see some answers from the new TGE government on this matter.

How long do you think it will take to rebuild Ragnarok to pre-war standards?

I think Batallion should receive a full ZI order, but I guess this is honourable either way. Well done Olympus.

[quote name='Kraken' timestamp='1312158851' post='2768645'] I don't understand why people want a new alliance to fail. What have we done to you all to deserve such harsh treatment? [/quote] You didn't get the memo? This is a community of !@#$%^&*.

[quote name='LeonidasRexII' timestamp='1312153319' post='2768568'] So now we're hiding again? During the war we had nations in Peace Mode, and even though PM is something that everyone uses we got the tag of coward. Despite the fact that we had nations in our alliance at war from the very beginning at the end of January all the way through to the end of April. I could count on one hand the alliances that had nations fighting for that long. Now we're supposedly hiding because we actually respect the sovereignty of other alliances and refuse to participate in these pointlessly juvenile spy attacks? You and quite a few others here have some very skewed views when it comes to who is and isn't hiding. Seems like when others do something you don't approve of, like respect other alliances, you feel the need to label them. [/quote] Hey, the guy is from Ragnarok after all.

[quote name='The Normandy' timestamp='1312131660' post='2768338'] Who cares about the seller. [/quote] Every buyer on Bob?

Nice treaty, I'm loving the name and that shiny shield. Good luck. o/

The chance to win 150 tech and 25m sounds mighty fine. Count me in. OOC: I believe this should be in an OOC forum.

[quote name='Anger' timestamp='1312041580' post='2767664'] I've said it before, I'll say it again: AcTi is retarded. Just please, whatever you do, when you do disband for good, don't EVER reform it. Please. [/quote] This is some of the best advice anyone can give AcTi. Well said. It's also wholly unlikely that this will be the final AcTi announcement.

This is an incredibly embarrassing spectacle for AcTi. How does it feel to be a laughingstock guys? It's not even funny when you think about it, it's just plain !@#$@#$ awful.

OOC reasons for IC attacks will never go down well. The OOC should be kept well, well away from the IC spectrum, since the two have very little bearing on one another; what happens OOC has nothing to do with what happens IC and vice versa...or so it should be. On the other hand, OOC attacks are pretty intolerable and some form of punishment is usually quite well-warranted. Of course, since OOC punishment is not really possible, IC punishment makes the most sense. Heh. Good luck Olympus. Burn 'em down.

Shiny new bloc, interesting signatories, though it's not entirely surprising to see a lineup like this. Good luck PM, I have a feeling you folks might need it.

Quite the rapid switch in treaties here, I applaud you, Legacy. I would imagine that any move away from GOD and CSN at this stage is a somewhat admirable one. I also seriously doubt that there was no consideration of military matters when deliberating over the treaty changes, as one or two Legacy members have propagated.