Advice to Legion

[Ogaden]

Hymenbreach for Proconsul with Lord Fingolfin as Imperator of Legion.

[Sandwich Controversy]

[quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1309957937' post='2750342']
Uh, BJ, NPO hasn't had any faith in Legion for quite some time :shh:.

As to the topic at hand, yes, please separate yourselves from NPO. Just bite the bullet and go neutral.
[/quote]
They haven't cancelled on them at least, which is what matters v[img]http://forums.cybernations.net/public/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif[/img]v

[kerschbs]

[quote name='Sandwich Controversy' timestamp='1309921503' post='2749966']
Dropping the only alliance with any sort of faith in Legion is a really bad idea. Even if Legion wants to get away from the side perpetually losing wars, they're going to need NPO for a long time until they can fundamentally reshape themselves, something I doubt is in the realm of possibility. They should instead turn to NPO once again for help. While they aren't exactly the most popular alliance around, they at least have a good idea of how to run an alliance.

And about NSO: if you want to earn back even the tiniest bit of respect from the world at large, you need to attack them. Simple as. They've shown an utter lack of respect for you and provided one of the most clear-cut casus bellis in history. If you win, it will be costly, but show that Legion is a principled alliance willing to fight to defend its members, and you'll have taught NSO a valuable lesson. If you lose, you'll still show that the Legion will stand up for itself, but also poor, inactive members will melt off, allowing a more streamlined alliance with a larger proportion of contributing members. This would be much easier to organize into a relatively strong alliance.
[/quote]


I agree with everything in this post. Legion, the world will respect you more if you stand up for yourselves.

[Rayvon]

[quote name='Heft' timestamp='1309912500' post='2749840']
Legion's problem is Legion, not NPO.
[/quote]

This right here.

[chefjoe]

Put me in charge of Legion, Ill whip em into shape, ive done it before in other lands

[Partisan]

I can't help but to see many, many similiarities between your alliance right now and the GGA just prior to its final 'coup'. While your internal affairs might differ (I have no view on that) you seem to be in somewhat the same spot in your foreign affairs. I've witnessed GGA's faillure first-hand as both gov. and member and if legion does not change this !@#$ around, I foresee great faillure for you in the (near) future. I'm going to offer you some advice and I hope by god that you heed it.

I've heard multiple people claim that 'the legion doesn't care what you all think, we're content with our allies etc. etc.'. Thats your first mistake. Get the whole 'it doesn't matter what the OWF/world thinks' bull&#@&% out of your brains. It DOES matter. Right now you are about as scary as a retarded 10-year old in a wheelchair. The only difference is that people wont leave you alone out of pity here since this is the internet. People mess with you because of your PR. You're losing out on possible larger members because of your PR. You're losing out on potential allies because of PR. Even your allies are suffering because of your terrible PR because their association with you reflects bad on them. You're going to have to clean up your act.

Your bad PR stems partly from your lack of warchests/military prep but most of it is a stigma you're carrying around because of months and months of ridicule. New posters on the OWF tend to bandwagon to fit in. They see the world ridiculing you and as a result join the crowd. Perhaps its time to stop running around the OWF giving people opportunity to make fun of you. What you're currently doing is like jumping into a paintball game while holding up a huge neon sign with the text 'shoot me'. OFCOURSE SOMEONE WILL PULL THE DAMN TRIGGER WHEN YOU DO THAT.

Get together with your government and set out a course for the legion. Make an internal plan that AT LEAST addresses your warchests and your military prep. You have plenty of resources to fund programs to accomplish that. If you have some competent people around in your gov. that should be no problem. If you manage to pull it off and put down a good or at least decent military performance in the next war it will go a long way to fix your PR too. Make this a spearhead. (you could always turn to NPO for help here. They're competent enough.)

A harder task (but not impossible) will be fixing that dreaded PR of yours. Do not ignore it. It can become a huge problem. (I'd argue it already is). Get together and set out an FA plan. At least have it address your PR and ways to fix it, where you want to move legion and how to do it.

Your first move in fixing your PR should be a gag-order for your general membership. As well as they may mean it, the last thing you need in your situation is a couple of contenders for the famous 'worst poster' competition running rampant. Make sure only your more charismatic/competent members can post and even if they post, make sure they do NOT respond to the bait. Once you've made sure there will be no provocation from your own members you can work on the long road to recovery. A couple of other things would help:

- Whenever you want to post an announcement, save the document, unplug your computer, go do something else, return at least 30 mins from then and read it again. Think for yourself: If I wanted to ridicule legion? Would I find any material? If you're positive that its all good, post it. Can save you alot of trouble. Another idea would be to have your allies proofd-read.

- when an issue comes up. Work behind the scenes. Dont come here and try to win sympathy from the OWF. So long as you carry your current stigma, there is no chance anyone other than your direct allies will side with you. Just solve the issue behind the scenes.

- Show some balls. It usually generates respect.

- while you have the gag-order, do your best to improve your relations with other alliances (through IRC, embassies etc.). Not just your allies or the neutrals but approach your 'opponents' too and try to slowly change the perception they have of you. (note: This will be hard, especially at first and chances are you wont be given a warm welcome. Remain calm and respectful despite any provocations.)

Some people mentioned you should move away from NPO. I would advise against this. The NPO is one of the few alliances supportive of you. Do not throw that away in an attempt to 'open up new FA paths'. I know from experience that those who tell you to move away right now arent likely to take you in even if you do ditch your ally. They'll steer clear of you and you'll be alone. Many told the GGA to move away from its allies and 'become independent'. In the final coup, the new government dropped all treaties in an attempt to get away from the 'lapdog' stigma. We ended up with only two alliances willing to treaty us. Two micros at that. Keep your current allies, listen to them and heed their advise. They want to help you.

If any of you ever wish, you may always contact me for advise.

(This may contain some errors. Its late and i'm tired. Get over it )

Edited July 6, 2011 by Turin

[Banksy]

lol, no one else will put up with Legion. If they ditch the NPO then they lose all their protection.

[chefjoe]

[quote name='Banksy' timestamp='1309991304' post='2750748']
lol, no one else will put up with Legion. If they ditch the NPO then they lose all their protection.
[/quote]

and WE lose the chance to watch NPO try and play nanny and firefighter for Legion after they $%&@ up

[MCRABT]

My advice to Legion is that they should accept olive branches when they are handed out, some people are always going to hate you but you do yourself absolutely no favours pissing over foreign dignitaries that have a genuine interest of interacting amicably.

Until you come to terms with your current position and standing in this community, eat some humble pie and begin to act with a shred of competence you will always be treated with contempt.

[KainIIIC]

^^ Everything Partisan said. Dropping one of your most loyal allies will not get you anywhere, and will if anything leave you more vulnerable.

[quote name='potato' timestamp='1309957420' post='2750338']
Oh and don't let [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=103058"]Sabercat, Leonidas and co[/url] be your mouthpiece.
[/quote]

^^ Also, this. Since this is kind of what started that little confrontation with Legion and NSO in the first place (They directed their fire on us).

[Varianz]

Pacifica is a good ally to Legion. I won't say the same for the reverse however. For Legion to drop NPO would be moronic. I do hope that Pacifica drops Legion however- the NPO is a quality alliance, whereas Legion is...yeah.

[mythicknight]

[quote name='chefjoe' timestamp='1309983209' post='2750606']
Put me in charge of Legion, Ill whip em into shape, ive done it before in other lands
[/quote]

Chefjoe for Viceroy

[Lord Velox]

Bilrow's GGA. If only Legion had it's own PC to balance it out.

[AnCapistan]

[quote name='Lord Velox' timestamp='1310019995' post='2751221']
Bilrow's GGA. If only Legion had it's own PC to balance it out.
[/quote]

Sorry, but shouldn't you be focused on protecting your own nation's borders from sabotage and intelligence gathering moreso than pointing out the flaws in other alliances? The Defender of Legion told me you were the easiest person he's spied on yet.

Edited July 7, 2011 by Mr Damsky

[KainIIIC]

[quote name='mythicknight' timestamp='1309997632' post='2750832']
Chefjoe for Viceroy
[/quote]

lol. this is funny, I support.

[Hiro Nakara]

Disband already LOLegion, It just makes sense.

[Solaris]

[quote name='Mr Damsky' timestamp='1310020249' post='2751224']
Sorry, but shouldn't you be focused on protecting your own nation's borders from sabotage and intelligence gathering moreso than pointing out the flaws in other alliances? The Defender of Legion told me you were the easiest person he's spied on yet.
[/quote]
No apology needed, even if your comment lack relevance. Carry on. Also, Legion: please don't disband. I'd rather eat you alive.

Edited July 7, 2011 by Solaris

[DanDesade]

Winston Churchill said that the destiny of man is not measured by material complications. When great forces are on the move in the world we learn we’re spirits, not animals. And he said there is something going on in time and space, and beyond time and space, which whether we like it or not spells duty.

The legion was born January 31st 2006.
During our existence we have seen thousands of members come and go, leaders rise and fall. But the one thing that has always remained is the commitment to our fellow legionnaires. And the commitment to uphold our values and to ensure the survival and success of our alliance

No matter how many times we have been battered and bloodied

We have persevered
We have weathered every storm

Our bond is unbreakable
We are Legionnaires

We never quit
We never give up
We never hide from history
We make history

EDIT *taken from a Legion Endures movie long ago

Edited July 7, 2011 by DanDesade

[Azaghul]

[quote name='DanDesade' timestamp='1310039393' post='2751298']
Winston Churchill said that the destiny of man is not measured by material complications. When great forces are on the move in the world we learn we’re spirits, not animals. And he said there is something going on in time and space, and beyond time and space, which whether we like it or not spells duty.

The legion was born January 31st 2006.
During our existence we have seen thousands of members come and go, leaders rise and fall. But the one thing that has always remained is the commitment to our fellow legionnaires. And the commitment to uphold our values and to ensure the survival and success of our alliance

No matter how many times we have been battered and bloodied

We have persevered
We have weathered every storm

Our bond is unbreakable
We are Legionnaires

We never quit
We never give up
We never hide from history
We make history

EDIT *taken from a Legion Endures movie long ago
[/quote]
Do you have anything to defend your alliance with aside from meaningless cliches?

[Brehon]

[quote name='Alterego' timestamp='1309909378' post='2749791']
Did you tell them not to react?
[/quote]

Didn't talk to Legion until 2 days ago about all of this (and it wasn't from lack of trying). No we did not tell them not to react. We told them we thought this was dumb and NSO and Legion are acting stupid.

[Brehon]

Also, as much as it bothers me to say this, you have some strong and good advice in this thread. You can ignore us, come to us or break from us. Just make a decision, somewhere. I am pretty tired of this nonsense.

[KainIIIC]

[quote name='Brehon' timestamp='1310044518' post='2751331']
[b]Didn't talk to Legion until 2 days ago about all of this (and it wasn't from lack of trying).[/b] No we did not tell them not to react. We told them we thought this was dumb and NSO and Legion are acting stupid.
[/quote]

I was gonna bring it up earlier, but this exactly, in my opinion, is the kind of stuff that pissed us off in the coalition in the first place - them seemingly and deliberately hiding their gov't representatives (In that case defense, this case FA) for others to coordinate, consult with, etc. You HAVE to be available to your allies / other important peeps when they need to talk to you most. You just have to, not doing so is a direct sign of incompetence, and not being able to speak to you while you went on your massive PM campaign prevented us from trying to end that war sooner.

tl;dr version: Don't hide from those who need to speak and consult with you the most.

[alyster]

[quote name='KainIIIC' timestamp='1310049441' post='2751349']
I was gonna bring it up earlier, but this exactly, in my opinion, is the kind of stuff that pissed us off in the coalition in the first place - them seemingly and deliberately hiding their gov't representatives (In that case defense, this case FA) for others to coordinate, consult with, etc. You HAVE to be available to your allies / other important peeps when they need to talk to you most. You just have to, not doing so is a direct sign of incompetence, and not being able to speak to you while you went on your massive PM campaign prevented us from trying to end that war sooner.

tl;dr version: Don't hide from those who need to speak and consult with you the most.
[/quote]

And when they do come to irc, it's okay to be a total ass to them?

[Varianz]

[quote name='Brehon' timestamp='1310044518' post='2751331']
Didn't talk to Legion until 2 days ago about all of this (and it wasn't from lack of trying). No we did not tell them not to react. We told them we thought this was dumb and NSO and Legion are acting stupid.
[/quote]
Shut up Brehon, you're Legion's puppetmasters and goshdarnit you're gonna like it!

[KainIIIC]

[quote name='alyster' timestamp='1310051660' post='2751365']
And when they do come to irc, it's okay to be a total ass to them?
[/quote]

(if they're doing really stupid things, then perhaps )

I'm talking about having War/FA representatives available to your allies and coalition partners while you are in a war or a diplomatic dispute. Seems like common sense to me.