Rebel Virginia Posted June 13, 2011 Report Share Posted June 13, 2011 [color="#0000FF"]What is this all about? TIO upgrading with NPO or something? Is that why IAA canceled? I don't know. Can't people just say it in the announcement. I really don't see the point in trying to hide it. That said, get over it IAA. Others suffered at the hands of the NPO too and got over it. I find it utterly absurd that you're feeling sore over things that happened years ago. Though that may perhaps be due to the fact that a rational man such as myself cares more for what is going on presently than what is happening in 2008.[/color] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagrr Posted June 13, 2011 Report Share Posted June 13, 2011 [quote name='flak attack' timestamp='1307983304' post='2730602'] Nailed it on the head. Also, it's been less than 3 years since GATO-1V ended. The fighting was going on 3 years ago today. [/quote] Because NPO were the ones actually fighting IAA. Valhalla, TORN, and MHA were there just for show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alyster Posted June 13, 2011 Report Share Posted June 13, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Chimaera' timestamp='1307986089' post='2730635']If you think I hate Pacifica, you are damn right I do. And they deserve every piece of it.[/quote] I don't mind you hating us. But why on earth would you turn on your friends for that? Like someone just said in private about it, really Xiph like move. Oh well best of luck in your tart world. Edited June 13, 2011 by alyster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheListener Posted June 13, 2011 Report Share Posted June 13, 2011 [quote name='alyster' timestamp='1307987764' post='2730650'] I don't mind you hating us. But why on earth would you turn on your friends for that? [/quote] Turning on our friends for that? If that was the only issue involved you could call it that but I've covered it a million times over, it was simply the straw that broke the camels back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Posted June 13, 2011 Report Share Posted June 13, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Henry' timestamp='1307987405' post='2730645'] Because NPO were the ones actually fighting IAA. Valhalla, TORN, and MHA were there just for show. [/quote] And were they the driving force behind it, and the ones who specifically limited his ability to exist on this planet? [quote name='alyster' timestamp='1307987764' post='2730650'] I don't mind you hating us. But why on earth would you turn on your friends for that? Like someone just said in private about it, really Xiph like move. Oh well best of luck in your tart world. [/quote] When your friends sign with someone you hate, it puts you in a difficult situation. Its especially hard when you hear from the person you hate about it, not even your friends. Did I mention that your friends have been insulting you for months? If you read his whole post, and not just parts, you might get the reasoning a bit better. NPO wasn't the source of all evil here, and he makes that clear. Edited June 13, 2011 by Penlugue Solaris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lusitan Posted June 13, 2011 Report Share Posted June 13, 2011 [quote name='Chief Savage Man' timestamp='1307984336' post='2730612'] Yeah I'm just mad because I failed out of Treaty Signing 101 at RandomInterrupt Diplomacy Institute. The biggest question on the final exam was "Which of the following courses of action is the most appropriate? A: Sign a treaty with the worst alliance in CN, who has ties with the NPO, who has a reputation worth as much as dog!@#$ and fail to inform one of your oldest and most dependable allies. B: [b]Use your brain[/b]." Turns out it was A. v[img]http://forums.cybernations.net/public/style_emoticons/default/happy.gif[/img]v [/quote] The lack of knowledge of that option is a flaw which seems to come from elementary school so much it is common to all the Emperors that graced Polaris's throne. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Partisan Posted June 13, 2011 Report Share Posted June 13, 2011 [quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1307987329' post='2730643'] [color="#0000FF"]What is this all about? TIO upgrading with NPO or something? Is that why IAA canceled? I don't know. Can't people just say it in the announcement. I really don't see the point in trying to hide it. That said, get over it IAA. Others suffered at the hands of the NPO too and got over it. I find it utterly absurd that you're feeling sore over things that happened years ago. Though that may perhaps be due to the fact that a rational man such as myself cares more for what is going on presently than what is happening in 2008.[/color] [/quote] Judging from recent wars, I find it hard to believe these others got 'over it' On the topic at hand: I guess this breakup is for the better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vol Navy Posted June 13, 2011 Report Share Posted June 13, 2011 It's very odd that so many praising IAA for this move are in that giant cluster Schatt illustrated that supposedly don't like each other at all yet stay tied to each other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elric Posted June 13, 2011 Report Share Posted June 13, 2011 This is interesting. Chimaera came out and directly discussed the issues that were germane to this decision- something that much of the OWF audience was screaming for. You can choose to agree or disagree about how that decision was reached I suppose, but actually thinking that you can tell someone how they should feel about a certain alliance is absurd. Who are you people, the thought police? The same wise man once said two different things that should be considered here: "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it", and "only the dead have seen the end of war". Everybody has their own motivations about everything, including if and when to forgive someone or some group. The absurd thing is trying to impose your beliefs, morals, ethics and life experiences on someone else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schattenmann Posted June 13, 2011 Report Share Posted June 13, 2011 [quote name='Vol Navy' timestamp='1307990886' post='2730670'] It's very odd that so many praising IAA for this move are in that giant cluster Schatt illustrated that supposedly don't like each other at all yet stay tied to each other. [/quote] For the same reason that the Pacifican cluster of pre-Karma liked it when people outside that cluster exercised this. IAA practicing a strong, coherent foreign policy keeps everything outside the central cluster fragments and easy to pick at; they're not getting cheers for a logical FP. [quote name='Salah adDin' timestamp='1307990902' post='2730671'] This is interesting. Chimaera came out and directly discussed the issues that were germane to this decision- something that much of the OWF audience was screaming for. You can choose to agree or disagree about how that decision was reached I suppose, but actually thinking that you can tell someone how they should feel about a certain alliance is absurd. Who are you people, the thought police? The same wise man once said two different things that should be considered here: "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it", and "only the dead have seen the end of war". Everybody has their own motivations about everything, including if and when to forgive someone or some group. The absurd thing is trying to impose your beliefs, morals, ethics and life experiences on someone else. [/quote] However, as long as people maintain this mentality[quote name='Chimaera' timestamp='1307981525' post='2730594'] Say what you want about the current global power structure, but it is a hell of a lot better than it was in 2007 and 2008. There have been no forced disbandments, no eternal ZI sentences, none of what amounts to incomprehensible war crimes. I will never allow my alliance to indirectly be complicit in the revival of the former power structure. We would not go down that path with TIO, no matter how much we like their members. [/quote]then abuses will always occur and history will be repeated. NPO is not the only alliance capable of offenses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jrenster Posted June 13, 2011 Report Share Posted June 13, 2011 (edited) Fine. We could have ruled the galaxy together, IAA. Now line up with the rest of the scum. But in all seriousness, I don't see anything wrong in dropping your allies because you don't like their allies. It's called politicking. It's how the world works. Friendship is second to that. Also, I thought it was funny how some people from IAA were like "herp derp you don't know what you were talking about" when the case was exactly what they were talking about. Edited June 13, 2011 by Jrenster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omniscient1 Posted June 13, 2011 Report Share Posted June 13, 2011 Not surprising, I guess they're all yours now NPO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagrr Posted June 13, 2011 Report Share Posted June 13, 2011 [quote name='Penlugue Solaris' timestamp='1307989821' post='2730660'] And were they the driving force behind it, and the ones who specifically limited his ability to exist on this planet? [/quote] Driving is a weasel word. STA withdrew from the war. The other alliances did not. You're just going to have to accept the fact that those other alliances went to war because [i]they wanted to[/i]. IAA only got off a couple declarations before Valhalla and the others countered. Hardly the mark of having a deep reluctance for warring IAA. The reason the ole karma pitchfork crowd doesn't call for their heads is because it politically expedient to put all the blame on NPO rather than spread it around. Chimaera deserves to harbor a little resentment. The point at which it goes overboard is when you ditch allies and dictate your foreign policy based on events of 2008. As long as we're reminiscing, why doesn't Legion try to hunt down former Warpstorm Alliance members? They were the first "war criminals" and you never know, they're might be a few left after 5 years. Or maybe I should cook some burgers in revenge for the Legion viceroyship? Practicably anyone can climb up on the cross if they've been playing long enough. [quote] NPO wasn't the source of all evil here, and he makes that clear. [/quote] No. He doesn't. He brings up the specter of the evil NPO returning to power when the political situation clearly won't allow it to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Posted June 13, 2011 Report Share Posted June 13, 2011 [quote name='Henry' timestamp='1307993924' post='2730696'] Driving is a weasel word. STA withdrew from the war. The other alliances did not. You're just going to have to accept the fact that those other alliances went to war because [i]they wanted to[/i]. IAA only got off a couple declarations before Valhalla and the others countered. Hardly the mark of having a deep reluctance for warring IAA. The reason the ole karma pitchfork crowd doesn't call for their heads is because it politically expedient to put all the blame on NPO rather than spread it around. Chimaera deserves to harbor a little resentment. The point at which it goes overboard is when you ditch allies and dictate your foreign policy based on events of 2008. [/quote] Wanting to go to war and causing the war are separate things. Also, you are harping on one thing here, not the whole situation. Did the rest of the alliances pursue him across AA's? (I was kind of there since my alliance at the time (GR) is the one that got in trouble for harboring him >_>). Valhalla might have, but the ones who forced the issue were yall, not them. [quote] No. He doesn't. He brings up the specter of the evil NPO returning to power when the political situation clearly won't allow it to happen. [/quote] Within the situation, he does. The disrespect was just as big of an issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagrr Posted June 13, 2011 Report Share Posted June 13, 2011 [quote name='Penlugue Solaris' timestamp='1307994257' post='2730700'] Wanting to go to war and causing the war are separate things. Also, you are harping on one thing here, not the whole situation. Did the rest of the alliances pursue him across AA's? (I was kind of there since my alliance at the time (GR) is the one that got in trouble for harboring him >_>). Valhalla might have, but the ones who forced the issue were yall, not them. [/quote] I'm fairly sure NPO weren't the only one interested in killing Chimarea. [quote] Within the situation, he does. The disrespect was just as big of an issue. [/quote] I really doubt that TIO disrespected IAA on a personal level that much in comparison to the perceived slight of upgrading their treaty with us. The disrespect was mentioned once or twice, NPO has occupied the past several pages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daimos Posted June 13, 2011 Report Share Posted June 13, 2011 Over 9 pages in this alliance announcement. It must have NPO content. I was right Carry on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amossio Posted June 13, 2011 Report Share Posted June 13, 2011 Love the way NPO members are the ones doing the arguing whilst creating more dislike between IAA and TIO, ever forward 'cifica!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Posted June 13, 2011 Report Share Posted June 13, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Henry' timestamp='1307994773' post='2730705'] I'm fairly sure NPO weren't the only one interested in killing Chimarea. [/quote] Fairly sure Valhalla handled it a bit differently. I wouldn't know though, I wasn't the one talking to the...oh I was. I was not involved with the talks Chim had privately with them, though I assume they went similarly to mine. [quote] I really doubt that TIO disrespected IAA on a personal level that much in comparison to the perceived slight of upgrading their treaty with us. The disrespect was mentioned once or twice, NPO has occupied the past several pages. [/quote] What is more fun to talk about of the two? Especially in a public forum, the NPO is the preferred topic of discussion. Doesn't mean that TIO's disrespect was less of a reason for the cancellation. Edited June 13, 2011 by Penlugue Solaris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anhur Posted June 13, 2011 Report Share Posted June 13, 2011 [quote name='Omniscient1' timestamp='1307993488' post='2730691'] Not surprising, I guess they're all yours now NPO. [/quote] If so, then we are honored to have them! o/ TIO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagrr Posted June 13, 2011 Report Share Posted June 13, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Penlugue Solaris' timestamp='1307995926' post='2730713'] Fairly sure Valhalla handled it a bit differently. I wouldn't know though, I wasn't the one talking to the...oh I was. I was not involved with the talks Chim had privately with them, though I assume they went similarly to mine. [/quote] Then by all means, Chim can continue being mad at NPO if they were the only ones interested in ZI'ing him. I'm not really buying that they were though. [quote] What is more fun to talk about of the two? Especially in a public forum, the NPO is the preferred topic of discussion. Doesn't mean that TIO's disrespect was less of a reason for the cancellation. [/quote] It doesn't mean it is either. If someone wants to provide examples of this disrespect, besides apparently not notifying IAA of the upgrade, which really comes down to NPO again, they can go ahead. Even when or if they do, it'll still be speculative about why the treaty was canceled, I think most people objectively believe that it is because of the upgrade with NPO. Edited June 13, 2011 by Henry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Posted June 13, 2011 Report Share Posted June 13, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Henry' timestamp='1307996805' post='2730717'] Then by all means, Chim can continue being mad at NPO if they were the only ones interested in ZI'ing him. I'm not really buying that they were though.[/quote] Good to hear your point of view on things. I'll place them where they belong in my head. I think I made it clear valhalla was somewhat involved, though not to the extent of NPO, but oh well. [quote] It doesn't mean it is either. If someone wants to provide examples of this disrespect, besides apparently not notifying IAA of the upgrade, which really comes down to NPO again, they can go ahead. Even when or if they do, it'll still be speculative about why the treaty was canceled, I think most people objectively believe that it is because of the upgrade with NPO. [/quote] So basically regardless what IAA's real reasoning was, its solely the upgrade with NPO. Edited June 13, 2011 by Penlugue Solaris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chimaera Posted June 13, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 13, 2011 [quote name='Henry' timestamp='1307994773' post='2730705'] I'm fairly sure NPO weren't the only one interested in killing Chimarea. [/quote] Aww, I'm loved. I sure missed this whole public animosity thing we've always had going on, Pacifica. 'Tis always a good time. Now bring Dilber back so you have someone who I can actually have a good verbal sparring with, and I might come around more often. For the record, I was under the impression I was being EZI'd by Valhalla at the time - this actually turned out to be an untrue assumption based on he said, she said intelligence. I am certain many more alliances wanted me dead, but only one ever tried so hard. And, naturally, I spent years returning the favor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagrr Posted June 13, 2011 Report Share Posted June 13, 2011 [quote name='Penlugue Solaris' timestamp='1307997162' post='2730720'] Good to hear your point of view on things. I'll place them where they belong in my head. I think I made it clear valhalla was somewhat involved, though not to the extent of NPO, but oh well. [/quote] Good to hear from you too. [quote] So basically regardless what IAA's real reasoning was, its solely the upgrade with NPO. [/quote] You have evidence pointing to otherwise? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vladisvok Destino Posted June 13, 2011 Report Share Posted June 13, 2011 [quote name='Henry' timestamp='1307997753' post='2730722'] You have evidence pointing to otherwise? [/quote] Maybe it's just me, but when you have the Emperor of IAA saying the treaty wasn't the only reason VS NPO saying that it is the only reason.....I'd say the ball is in your court to produce evidence? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chimaera Posted June 13, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 13, 2011 [quote name='Henry' timestamp='1307997753' post='2730722'] You have evidence pointing to otherwise? [/quote] Yes, actually, he does. Let me point you to my post two pages ago: http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=102617&view=findpost&p=2730594 As I make it clear, the upgrade with NPO was a large factor, but personal distastes between members and a general lack of cohesion and pleasantry was a major deciding factor, as well. Come on, Henry. I am the Emperor of IAA. I would know what our motivations were for canceling this treaty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.