Prodigal Moon Posted June 13, 2011 Report Share Posted June 13, 2011 [quote name='nutkase' timestamp='1307937362' post='2730346'] Treaties should be about friendship, not treaty web positioning. [/quote] Yet people still have the nerve to complain about ignored treaties, allies declaring on allies, people declaring on both sides of the same war, general political stagnation... I look at the treaty web and say: look at all this friendship across the world! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Posted June 13, 2011 Report Share Posted June 13, 2011 (edited) [quote name='nutkase' timestamp='1307937748' post='2730351'] So IAA did not drop TIO because of a future treaty upgrade with NPO? Or maybe that IAA Emperor is angry because he didn't want to be treaty chained to NPO? Or maybe was told something quite a long period of time ago but now has changed? Sounds like all FA dictation to me. [/quote] See the Listener's post. [quote name='nutkase' timestamp='1307937952' post='2730357'] Then it must be coincidence that just before a official upgrade between TIO and NPO, that IAA dumps it's treaty with TIO? Especially with IAA saying their hand was forced. [/quote] Did you miss the listeners post? Edited June 13, 2011 by Penlugue Solaris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathias Posted June 13, 2011 Report Share Posted June 13, 2011 [quote name='nutkase' timestamp='1307937952' post='2730357'] Then it must be coincidence that just before a official upgrade between TIO and NPO, that IAA dumps it's treaty with TIO? [/quote] Honestly if you think it's a bad thing that an alliance likes to keep it's foreign policy coherent then there's no arguing with you. And while that may be a significant factor in this cancellation there's plenty of other underlying reasons that made it the straw that broke the camel's back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MitchellBade Posted June 13, 2011 Report Share Posted June 13, 2011 [quote name='nutkase' timestamp='1307937952' post='2730357'] Then it must be coincidence that just before a official upgrade between TIO and NPO, that IAA dumps it's treaty with TIO? [/quote] Actually, I did just join IAA 12 days ago AND then this treaty gets dropped. Coincidence? I think so because I rule Chimaera with this voodoo puppet doll that I made out of TheListener's foreskin and excess hair from Kevlar, who coincidentally joined IAA just before me. So many coincidences.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varianz Posted June 13, 2011 Report Share Posted June 13, 2011 [quote name='nutkase' timestamp='1307937362' post='2730346'] People also need to respect that not everyone's FA is going to follow their own, even among allies. Treaties should be about friendship, not treaty web positioning. [/quote] This is exactly what is wrong with CN today. Being friends with someone doesn't mean you should treaty them- you don't need a piece of paper to be friends with people. Treaties should be a [i]mix [/i]of strategic decision making, with friendship considered- it is important that you be able to trust your treaty partners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
President S O Posted June 13, 2011 Report Share Posted June 13, 2011 Sad to see. Best of luck TIO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banksy Posted June 13, 2011 Report Share Posted June 13, 2011 Can't say I care much for either alliance, but a clean break from TIO can only be a good thing. [quote name='nutkase' timestamp='1307937362' post='2730346'] Treaties should be about friendship, not treaty web positioning. [/quote] xfd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nutkase Posted June 13, 2011 Report Share Posted June 13, 2011 (edited) [quote name='TheListener' timestamp='1307937632' post='2730350'] You know, you're talking to IAA here one of the few alliances that has never cared about treaty web positioning and still does not care about treaty web positioning. [/quote] [quote] <Chimaera> IAA will not be tied to Pacifica. We will not put ourselves in a position to fight for that alliance, ever. <Chimaera> Everyone is tied to everyone who is tied to someone else. <mastabadey> so why not the same with TIO? <Chimaera> Because TIO is direct. [/quote] [quote] <Scorponok[TIO]> If you are to drop us for that reason, drop Polaris. <KahlanRahl> i think you're just using this as an excuse. <mastabadey> i think you should <Stagger_Lee> if you're just using this as an excuse to drop this because you dont like us. <Stagger_Lee> just tell us. <Stagger_Lee> and drop it. <Chimaera> Probably won't though, I love Polaris to death. [/quote] Care to refute? Edited June 13, 2011 by nutkase Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conformist Maryland Posted June 13, 2011 Report Share Posted June 13, 2011 [quote name='Prodigal Moon' timestamp='1307938065' post='2730358'] Yet people still have the nerve to complain about ignored treaties, allies declaring on allies, people declaring on both sides of the same war, general political stagnation... I look at the treaty web and say: look at all this friendship across the world! [/quote] [color="#FFA500"]I heart you.[/color] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conformist Maryland Posted June 13, 2011 Report Share Posted June 13, 2011 [quote name='nutkase' timestamp='1307938673' post='2730367'] Care to refute? [/quote] Actually, Chim saying that he won't drop Polaris because he loves them to death is pretty good evidence for what TL is saying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheListener Posted June 13, 2011 Report Share Posted June 13, 2011 [quote name='nutkase' timestamp='1307938673' post='2730367'] Care to refute? [/quote] They're quite obviously an OPSEC issue, why should we trust them if they're passing around private logs like that to someone they're not even allied to? I've already stated, it is an issue involved in this decision however is not the only one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MitchellBade Posted June 13, 2011 Report Share Posted June 13, 2011 [quote name='nutkase' timestamp='1307938673' post='2730367'] Care to refute? [/quote] gladly, Chimaera may be the Emperor of IAA but he is not IAA. He has his reasons and other members of IAA have theirs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nutkase Posted June 13, 2011 Report Share Posted June 13, 2011 [quote name='Varianz' timestamp='1307938180' post='2730363'] This is exactly what is wrong with CN today. Being friends with someone doesn't mean you should treaty them- you don't need a piece of paper to be friends with people. Treaties should be a [i]mix [/i]of strategic decision making, with friendship considered- it is important that you be able to trust your treaty partners. [/quote] Treaties based on strategy in a way restrict strategic thinking, as alliances FA direction can be easy dictated by current treaty obligations. Where a treaty based on friendship usually is more fluid and less dictating on FA directions of each respective alliance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nutkase Posted June 13, 2011 Report Share Posted June 13, 2011 [quote name='MitchellBade' timestamp='1307939038' post='2730372'] gladly, Chimaera may be the Emperor of IAA but he is not IAA. He has his reasons and other members of IAA have theirs. [/quote] So the Emperor does not hold the same values of what IAA membership does? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathias Posted June 13, 2011 Report Share Posted June 13, 2011 Can IAA members please stop acting like dropping TIO for their existing/expected NPO treaty is a bad thing? Thanks in advance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varianz Posted June 13, 2011 Report Share Posted June 13, 2011 (edited) [quote name='nutkase' timestamp='1307939080' post='2730374'] Treaties based on strategy in a way restrict strategic thinking, as alliances FA direction can be easy dictated by current treaty obligations. Where a treaty based on friendship usually is more fluid and less dictating on FA directions of each respective alliance. [/quote] What the hell kind of stupid logic is that? If your FA is restricted and you don't like it, cancel a treaty. If you're content with your position, don't cancel. Treaties based on friendship have led to the web being so ridiculously massive and complex. They lead to treaty conflicts during war. It's idiotic. Edited June 13, 2011 by Varianz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MitchellBade Posted June 13, 2011 Report Share Posted June 13, 2011 [quote name='nutkase' timestamp='1307939160' post='2730376'] So the Emperor does not hold the same values of what IAA membership does? [/quote] There are 72 members of IAA, if youre expecting a single person to hold the same exact values as 71 others, then you are clearly delusional and need to stop posting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KahlanRahl Posted June 13, 2011 Report Share Posted June 13, 2011 (edited) [quote name='TheListener' timestamp='1307938994' post='2730371'] They're quite obviously an OPSEC issue, why should we trust them if they're passing around private logs like that to someone they're not even allied to? I've already stated, it is an issue involved in this decision however is not the only one. [/quote] The only people in that conversation in TIO were myself, Stagger, CaoPai, Scorponok*, and Blackrose. They would not have leaked logs. Period. And they didn't have to come straight from an IAAer, you know. My bad, it was Scorp, not Scipio. Point still stands. Edited June 13, 2011 by KahlanRahl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nutkase Posted June 13, 2011 Report Share Posted June 13, 2011 [quote name='TheListener' timestamp='1307938994' post='2730371'] They're quite obviously an OPSEC issue, why should we trust them if they're passing around private logs like that to someone they're not even allied to? I've already stated, it is an issue involved in this decision however is not the only one. [/quote] Wait, who said I got this from TIO? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D34th Posted June 13, 2011 Report Share Posted June 13, 2011 (edited) This logs were modified I'm pretty sure the real version should be: [quote]<Chimaera> Probably won't though, I love Polaris [b]and D34th[/b]. [/quote] Also, If the drop was really caused for a possible TIO upgrade with NPO is totally understandable since IAA has very good reasons to not be direct or indirect tied with NPO ever. Edited June 13, 2011 by D34th Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nutkase Posted June 13, 2011 Report Share Posted June 13, 2011 [quote name='MitchellBade' timestamp='1307939512' post='2730381'] There are 72 members of IAA, if youre expecting a single person to hold the same exact values as 71 others, then you are clearly delusional and need to stop posting [/quote] No not every single member, but the membership as a collective should have views. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheListener Posted June 13, 2011 Report Share Posted June 13, 2011 (edited) [quote name='nutkase' timestamp='1307939640' post='2730384'] Wait, who said I got this from TIO? [/quote] You most certainly did not acquire these logs from any of the 3 members of the IAA in that discussion. Edited June 13, 2011 by TheListener Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nutkase Posted June 13, 2011 Report Share Posted June 13, 2011 [quote name='D34th' timestamp='1307939659' post='2730385'] This logs were modified I'm pretty sure the real version should be: Also, If the drop was really caused for a possible TIO upgrade with NPO is totally understandable that IAA has very good reasons to not be direct or indirect tied with NPO ever. [/quote] Then the NpO drop should be soon, considering the indirect connection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackie Moon Posted June 13, 2011 Report Share Posted June 13, 2011 [quote name='MitchellBade' timestamp='1307939512' post='2730381'] There are 72 members of IAA, if youre expecting a single person to hold the same exact values as 71 others, then you are clearly delusional and need to stop posting [/quote] You're saying the Emperor does not represent the alliance? And we're delusional? And need to stop posting? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayatollah Bromeini Posted June 13, 2011 Report Share Posted June 13, 2011 IAA is a classy alliance, and this was a good move, if it's really for the reasons stated ITT. Good luck IAA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.