The Overtime Accords

[Tygaland]

[quote name='Lusitan' timestamp='1304971117' post='2709166']
Meh, despite what you say I wouldn't take STA out of the sycophant list personally, you were there for at least 2/3rds of Pacifica's ruling, if not more.
[/quote]

I think NPO's leadership over that time would beg to differ. We were never a part of any of their blocs such as 1V, Q and whatever the predecessors were called. The reason we fell out with the NPO was because we did call them out on things we disagreed with rather than run with it.

[Sardonic]

[quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1304981695' post='2709293']
As has been stated before, that was a mere coincidence as part of our strategy. We wanted to attack the lower tiers first and move our way up, and DH conveniently divides it's tiers neatly into three alliances, so we only had to declare on GOONS, let the rest of DH flow in on their own (obviously they weren't going to let their most trusted meat-shields hanging), and that way draw as few counters as possible. And for quite some time, it worked beautifully.
[/quote]
Yes it really worked beautifully... for us. Perhaps if you all had gone all in from day one your position would have been improved.

It's also funny how you fancy yourself the unofficial spokesperson of your coalition.

[Ardus]

[quote name='ChairmanHal' timestamp='1304973512' post='2709189']
Ok, here's the bet...

On July 4th (a holiday here in the Haleenstar Republic because it was the day Electron Sponge was deposed at NpO), if GOONS membership is under 100 members, you will publish on these forums a five paragraph essay extolling the virtues of Sam Adams: RL historical person, beer, [url="http://www.cybernations.net/nation_drill_display.asp?Nation_ID=429276"]ruler of Zebes[/url], I don't care. If GOONS is disbanded or merges with another alliance before that date, you are fulfill the essay requirement and stop using anime characters on these forums forever. If on the other hand GOONS member is above 100 members, GOONS gets a ToF with the Haleenstar Republic that can only be canceled in the event of hostilities between Valhalla and GOONS. That means where you are concerned, I say something nice or I shut up and you extend the same courtesy to me. If on the other hand GOONS is sanctioned (200+ members, etc.) the ToF extends to all of Doom House (assuming there is a DH and/or GOONS is still a member, same Valhalla rule applies as well) and you will receive my personal congratulations.

If it's a bet, just say so. If not...your loss. You had an opportunity to silence one of your harshest critics and passed on it.
[/quote]

I'll take that bet.

[Azaghul]

[quote name='Lord Caspian' timestamp='1304932589' post='2708994']
It's a bit rich to fault them for not declaring enough wars. Nowhere in the treaty does it say they have to and this "Limited War" was only ever going to be about damage limitation for them. You can't blame them, surely?
[/quote]
I'm not faulting them for it at all, just stating it as a matter of fact to support my point that individual MKers being in peace isn't the limiting factor for the war on a macro level.

[Steve Buscemi]

[quote name='Tygaland' timestamp='1304987070' post='2709345']
With regards to our treaty obligations with the NPO, IAA and CSN were the aggressors in attacking the NPO. Hence the "D" part of our MDP with the NPO was activated. If you'd looke dfurther into this you'd probably not run yourself into this cul-de-sac as it is on the public record how the STA handled this situation.
[/quote]
Big at you claiming IAA/CSN were the aggressors in attacking the NPO in that war. NPO grudge-match attacked GATO and IAA/CSN are the aggressors? I'm down with grudges and using them as CB's, but don't claim to be defending the NPO when you were aggressively chaining in to stomp IAA/CSN. You fail hard little white tiger.

Also, , I know how much you love this symbol.

[HeroofTime55]

[quote name='Azaghul' timestamp='1304992052' post='2709401']
I'm not faulting them for it at all, just stating it as a matter of fact to support my point that individual MKers being in peace isn't the limiting factor for the war on a macro level.
[/quote]
Theory here, and work with me on this:

If your softies were out in the open, NPO would be jumping on them in a heartbeat, but my guess is they don't feel like all going 6-v-1 with nations that far out-tech them across the board.

But, you know, what do I know.

[Choson]

[quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1304993499' post='2709425']
But, you know, what do I know.
[/quote]
Not much. And it shows.

[Tygaland]

[quote name='Steve Buscemi' timestamp='1304992745' post='2709414']
Big at you claiming IAA/CSN were the aggressors in attacking the NPO in that war. NPO grudge-match attacked GATO and IAA/CSN are the aggressors? I'm down with grudges and using them as CB's, but don't claim to be defending the NPO when you were aggressively chaining in to stomp IAA/CSN. You fail hard little white tiger.

Also, , I know how much you love this symbol.
[/quote]

It is comforting to see you still have not learnt to read.

As far as our treaty with the NPO was concerned, IAA and CSN attacked the NPO making them the aggressors with respect to our treaty. It activated the defence clause in that treaty.

I am under no illusion that the war was kicked off by GGA with NPO etc. following them. However, we did not chain in on anything as we did not attack GATO, whom the NPO attacked, we attacked the alliances that came to GATO's defence and attacked the NPO.

If you had read and followed the conversation it would have saved me a minute or so in re-stating this for the slow of uptake.

Edited May 10, 2011 by Tygaland

[Schattenmann]

[quote name='Steve Buscemi' timestamp='1304992745' post='2709414']
Big at you claiming IAA/CSN were the aggressors in attacking the NPO in that war. NPO grudge-match attacked GATO and IAA/CSN are the aggressors? I'm down with grudges and using them as CB's, but don't claim to be defending the NPO when you were aggressively chaining in to stomp IAA/CSN. You fail hard little white tiger.

Also, , I know how much you love this symbol.
[/quote]


[quote name='Tygaland' timestamp='1304994594' post='2709439']
It is comforting to see you still have not learnt to read.

As far as our treaty with the NPO was concerned, IAA and CSN attacked the NPO making them the aggressors with respect to our treaty. It activated the defence clause in that treaty.

I am under no illusion that the war was kicked off by GGA with NPO etc. following them. However, we did not chain in on anything as we did not attack GATO, whom the NPO attacked, we attacked the alliances that came to GATO's defence and attacked the NPO.

If you had read and followed the conversation it would have saved me a minute or so in re-stating this for the slow of uptake.
[/quote]

All of that is irrelevant anyway: GATO broke their surrender terms. It might have been a jerkbag move to attack them, but GATO broke their terms knowing full well what could happen.

[Tygaland]

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1304996364' post='2709454']
All of that is irrelevant anyway: GATO broke their surrender terms. It might have been a jerkbag move to attack them, but GATO broke their terms knowing full well what could happen.
[/quote]

Yeah, I know it is irrelevant. I just have a reflex action that means I have to counter people telling untruths about my alliance.

The way the STA exited that war reflected the understanding that IAA, CSN and USN entered via treaties just as we did.

[ChairmanHal]

[quote name='Beefspari' timestamp='1304975164' post='2709203']
I have no need for anyone's congratulations. I'm more fond of the phrase "put your money where your mouth is." I guess you aren't as confident in your propaganda as you wanted us to think.
[/quote]

No, you don't know how to think about any sort of competition (war, betting, probably using the toilet truth be told) that doesn't involve tech or Rebel Virgina. No bet. But I will give you congratulations if you manage sanction or manage to pull out of the steep member dive and at least stop somewhere around 100.

[quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1304976684' post='2709223']
Do you try hard to be wrong about everything or does it come naturally?[/quote]

Man offers your alliance a bet designed to motivate you to be better and that's the best you've got? Just go home.

[quote name='Ardus' timestamp='1304991897' post='2709398']
I'll take that bet.[/quote]

Too bad you're in the wrong alliance to accept.

[HeroofTime55]

[quote name='Choson' timestamp='1304993808' post='2709429']
Not much. And it shows.
[/quote]
I really have to start placing bets on when some moron like you makes an oh-so-witty remark like this. I [i]knew[/i] this was coming.

We could easily make a game of this: "Which goon is going to come up with the dumb response first."

Feel free to address the actual point at your leisure.

[Cataduanes]

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1304996364' post='2709454']
All of that is irrelevant anyway: GATO broke their surrender terms. It might have been a jerkbag move to attack them, but GATO broke their terms knowing full well what could happen.
[/quote]
Well GATO at large was not aware that a term had been broken, and Pacfica at the time refused to countenance any talks with GATO's government [s]at the time[/s]...infact diplomacy was not utilized at all in the run up to the GATO-1V war (bar the occasional brush off from the Emperor, IO or other official). But yeah context is not something that tends to be remembered about past wars I suppose.

Also Buscemi's excessive use of that smiley hurt my eyes

Edited May 10, 2011 by Cataduanes

[Tygaland]

[quote name='Cataduanes' timestamp='1305003989' post='2709495']
Also Buscemi's excessive use of that smiley hurt my eyes
[/quote]

His scattergun approach to annoying me has seen innocents harmed.

[Haflinger]

[quote name='Tygaland' timestamp='1304987070' post='2709345']
No, you said we declared war on GATO.
[/quote]
Learn to read.

[quote name='Haflinger' timestamp='1304943908' post='2709026']
My point is that we are supposedly the NPO's greatest sycophants ever, and [b]we didn't fight in the GATO war[/b], nor in the FAN war.

[b]You guys did.[/b]
[/quote]
Highlighted portions for your convenience.

[quote name='Tygaland' timestamp='1304987070' post='2709345']
With regards to our treaty obligations with the NPO, IAA and CSN were the aggressors in attacking the NPO.
[/quote]
This is exactly the logic that chefjoe used to insist that you guys were aggressors in declaring on Valhalla a few months later. It's wrong both times.

[Tygaland]

[quote name='Haflinger' timestamp='1305006751' post='2709510']
Learn to read.
[/quote]

I can read just fine, thanks (emphasis mine):

[quote name='Haflinger' timestamp='1304936356' post='2709004']
You know, [b]you declared war on GATO too[/b].
[/quote]

you then went on to change your attack once you realised you were wrong in your initial statement.

I won't hold my breath waiting for an apology from you.

[quote]
This is exactly the logic that chefjoe used to insist that you guys were aggressors in declaring on Valhalla a few months later. It's wrong both times.
[/quote]

Not quite. I said that CSN and IAA were aggressors with respect to our treaty activiation. They were most certainly joining the war on the defensive side, I've not claimed otherwise. Hence, I didn't treat them as outrageous aggressors when peace came around. Unlike the aforementioned chefjoe.

[Azaghul]

Are y'all really arguing about the GATO war here.

[Azaghul]

[quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1304993499' post='2709425']
Theory here, and work with me on this:

If your softies were out in the open, NPO would be jumping on them in a heartbeat, but my guess is they don't feel like all going 6-v-1 with nations that far out-tech them across the board.

But, you know, what do I know.
[/quote]
There are still plenty of targets for those nations to hit, just because they aren't the "softies" doesn't mean that we've limited the number of wars that can be fought.

[Tygaland]

[quote name='Azaghul' timestamp='1305013283' post='2709526']
Are y'all really arguing about the GATO war here.
[/quote]

No, just correcting misinformation.

[Lord of the Dance]

Guys, this thread should be for raging against the might of Doomhouse, and their most important member, the GOONS.

Fight amongst yourselves elsewhere please. It makes us feel bad when we are all such great mates on our team.

[Choson]

[quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1304998454' post='2709472']
I really have to start placing bets on when some moron like you makes an oh-so-witty remark like this. I [i]knew[/i] this was coming.

We could easily make a game of this: "Which goon is going to come up with the dumb response first."

Feel free to address the actual point at your leisure.
[/quote]
I did. You aren't part of the NPO and do not know their internal policies, therefore you cannot speak for them.

Ergo, you know nothing.

[Haflinger]

[quote name='Choson' timestamp='1305023873' post='2709546']
I did. You aren't part of the NPO and do not know their internal policies, therefore you cannot speak for them.

Ergo, you know nothing.
[/quote]
Actually, he wasn't talking about their internal policies, but rather their wartime strategy. Something which, given that he's been in a coalition with them, he probably knows better than you do.

[HHAYD]

[quote name='Azaghul' timestamp='1305013283' post='2709526']
Are y'all really arguing about the GATO war here.
[/quote]
Old grudges die hard, very hard.

[Lusitan]

[quote name='Tygaland' timestamp='1304987251' post='2709349']
I think NPO's leadership over that time would beg to differ. We were never a part of any of their blocs such as 1V, Q and whatever the predecessors were called. The reason we fell out with the NPO was because we did call them out on things we disagreed with rather than run with it.
[/quote]

The reason you fell out with Pacifica was because they preferred Continuum and you preferred Polar, not a generic call out on things. I remember perfectly your cancellation thread. Which is understandable. It doesn't really matter whether you were part of the blocs like 1V or Continuum, you were part of the structure, allied to both Polar and Pacifica, you took part in some of their wars effectively enforcing Pacifica and Polar position. But you weren't a single case, SuperFriends, CDT and Citadel were there too. To claim they're sycophants and you're not seems a bit out of purpose though.

[Ragashingo]

[quote name='Lusitan' timestamp='1305031439' post='2709573']
The reason you fell out with Pacifica was because they preferred Continuum and you preferred Polar, not a generic call out on things. I remember perfectly your cancellation thread. Which is understandable. It doesn't really matter whether you were part of the blocs like 1V or Continuum, you were part of the structure, allied to both Polar and Pacifica, you took part in some of their wars effectively enforcing Pacifica and Polar position. But you weren't a single case, SuperFriends, CDT and Citadel were there too. To claim they're sycophants and you're not seems a bit out of purpose though.
[/quote]

I'm sure it's not technically true, but close enough to say that at one point or another everyone was allied to the NPO. Some alliances have continued the old NPO practice of curbstomping for no reason while others, like the STA, have turned completely away from such things. Looking back to the past and pointing fingers can be fun or can boost one's ego, but it's the here and now that matters. And here and now we have some alliances who are claiming to be for the greater good by continuing the practices that we all faulted the NPO for. My alliance isn't one of those. Can you truthfully say the same about yours?

Edited May 10, 2011 by Ragashingo