The Overtime Accords

[tamerlane]

[quote name='Alterego' timestamp='1305176137' post='2710516']
You lack the desire to take slots. Umbrella and GOONS were assigned to do the heavy lifting. Thats why Umbrella with 2/3 your nations has the same number of wars as you. Its why GOONS have 3 times your wars and only a little over twice your nations. They have the desire to take slots while half your alliance sits in peace and the rest complain that MK cant get a slot and both your allies do far more fighting. I hope when you are done with them you ditch them a little more respectfully than your previous allies.
[/quote]

We could not possibly dirty our hands with such trivial work, we have to mind the strings of Pandora's Box, you know.

Edited May 12, 2011 by tamerlane

[Lord of the Dance]

Yawn! You know what belly aching losers... when you guys win a war (I won't hold my breath) you can make demands about who gets in peace mode and who doesn't.

PS and when the inevitable "How could we win against such odds?" response arrives, please try to make more friends next time. I have greatly enjoyed getting to know my MK and Umbrella bretheren and sisteren and many more members of our mighty Alliance of Allying Alliances.

God is always on the side of the big battalions. That's right heathens. We are team Godly.

[mrwuss]

The losing side has always cried this hard?

There should be more wars of this level, the entertainment is a non stop train wreck made of awesome and candy.

[Alterego]

[quote name='mrwuss' timestamp='1305177545' post='2710528']
The losing side has always cried this hard?

There should be more wars of this level, the entertainment is a non stop train wreck made of awesome and candy.
[/quote]

The losing side is rarely happy. Its 3 years since WoTC and MK are still crying about NPO.

Edited May 12, 2011 by Alterego

[HeroofTime55]

[quote name='mrwuss' timestamp='1305177545' post='2710528']
The losing side has always cried this hard?

There should be more wars of this level, the entertainment is a non stop train wreck made of awesome and candy.
[/quote]
The next one is probably going to have you lot on the losing end. I'm going to start a betting pool around how fast you, personally, flee this world, once it begins.

[Lord of the Dance]

[quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1305180671' post='2710548']
The next one is probably going to have you lot on the losing end. I'm going to start a betting pool around how fast you, personally, flee this world, once it begins.
[/quote]

Mr Wuss and I will flee to Uranus.

I love the "You'll get your comeuppance.....!" {Shakes fist} comments.

[SADeki]

[quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1305180671' post='2710548']
The next one is probably going to have you lot on the losing end. I'm going to start a betting pool around how fast you, personally, flee this world, once it begins.
[/quote]

That's pretty big talk. In this theoretical war, is 64 Digits going to throw in more than 2 nations to war mode, or will you be nothing but a cheerleader again?

Edited May 12, 2011 by SADeki

[Williambonney]

[quote name='SADeki' timestamp='1305184921' post='2710580']
That's pretty big talk. In this theoretical war, is 64 Digits going to throw in more than 2 nations to war mode, or will you be nothing but a cheerleader again?
[/quote]
Doesn't that still rate higher than a meat shield considering that they are a protectorate?

[Monster]

I'm not sure why the presupposition that any of the same alliances will be major players in the next war exists. There are other rivalries and antagonisms that could easily leave many of them on the periphery. Assuming the world revolves around your group being avenged by some sort of white knight coalition is a bit of a stretch to take as a given. Sure it could happen and all, but saying it's destiny is kind of counting your chickens before they hatch.

[HeroofTime55]

[quote name='Antoine Roquentin' timestamp='1305186653' post='2710590']
I'm not sure why the presupposition that any of the same alliances will be major players in the next war exists. There are other rivalries and antagonisms that could easily leave many of them on the periphery. Assuming the world revolves around your group being avenged by some sort of white knight coalition is a bit of a stretch to take as a given. Sure it could happen and all, but saying it's destiny is kind of counting your chickens before they hatch.
[/quote]
I don't recall ever saying [i]we[/i] would be the ones to take you out. I hope to be a part of that coalition, but I'm not delusional enough to not think that someone else is going to be the center of that. You've built up a mighty long list of enemies through your recent acts. They're not going to be doing it for us.

Edit, OOC: Alright, 4 AM is the time to stop posting.

Edited May 12, 2011 by HeroofTime55

[Lord of the Dance]

[quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1305187015' post='2710591']
I don't recall ever saying [i]we[/i] would be the ones to take you out. I hope to be a part of that coalition, but I'm not delusional enough to not think that someone else is going to be the center of that. You've built up a mighty long list of enemies through your recent acts. They're not going to be doing it for us.
[/quote]

Just fill us all in on who? Beyond those who have surrendered above...


Or probably best to go to bed actually. I wish I was still a student.

Edited May 12, 2011 by Lord of the Dance

[Monster]

Up to you if you want to presuppose a coalition of an unnamed "long list of enemies" will all be working together with that as their major priority. Putting everything in a prophetic and hyperbolic tone is getting old by the way.

Edited May 12, 2011 by Antoine Roquentin

[Williambonney]

[quote name='Antoine Roquentin' timestamp='1305188128' post='2710602']
Up to you if you want to presuppose a coalition of a "long list of enemies" will all be working together to pursue a common goal when various divides amongst said hypothetical group exist as a given. Putting everything in a prophetic and hyperbolic tone is getting old by the way.
[/quote]
So is a lot of things in cn, but then you guys don't seem to mind, as long as it works to your advantage.

[quote]I'm not sure why the presupposition that any of the same alliances will be major players in the next war exists. There are other rivalries and antagonisms that could easily leave many of them on the periphery. Assuming the world revolves around your group being avenged by some sort of white knight coalition is a bit of a stretch to take as a given. Sure it could happen and all, but saying it's destiny is kind of counting your chickens before they hatch.
[/quote]

That's funny, there's a lot of talk from both sides saying otherwise. But hey, you got everything under control over there don't you?
p.s. all the big words...not impressed.

[quote]Just fill us all in on who? Beyond those who have surrendered above...


Or probably best to go to bed actually. I wish I was still a student. [/quote]

Our magic eight ball we stole back from you guys seems to be broken at the moment, we'll let you know when our technicians repair it. But still we could never divulge such a thing, it might force a preemptive strike. That would just be such a shame.....

[mrwuss]

[quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1305180671' post='2710548']
The next one is probably going to have you lot on the losing end. I'm going to start a betting pool around how fast you, personally, flee this world, once it begins.
[/quote]

Heh, cute.

I'm not leaving until I coup sardonic.

[Williambonney]

[quote name='mrwuss' timestamp='1305195981' post='2710623']
Heh, cute.

I'm not leaving until I coup sardonic.
[/quote]
I wouldn't be surprised if it happened.

[mrwuss]

[quote name='William Bonney' timestamp='1305196078' post='2710624']
I wouldn't be surprised if it happened.
[/quote]

I've tried and he's always like "no" and im all like FINE I HATE YOU and then I skin a cat alive.

[Williambonney]

[quote name='mrwuss' timestamp='1305196310' post='2710626']
I've tried and he's always like "no" and im all like FINE I HATE YOU and then I skin a cat alive.
[/quote]
Ever tried to team up? I wouldn't mind lending a hand if it helps speed things up....

p.s. help yourself to some cake, don't let Hiro hog it all.

Edited May 12, 2011 by William Bonney

[Hiro Nakara]

[quote name='William Bonney' timestamp='1305196397' post='2710628']
Ever tried to team up? I wouldn't mind lending a hand if it helps speed things up....

p.s. help yourself to some cake, don't let Hiro hog it all.
[/quote]


My nations diet is strictly high protein low carbs and babies.

[Ardus]

[quote name='Hiro Nakara' timestamp='1305196660' post='2710630']
My nations diet is strictly high protein low carbs and babies.
[/quote]
[s]Becoming[/s] Became the monster.

[tamerlane]

[quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1305187015' post='2710591']
You've built up a mighty long list of enemies through your recent acts.
[/quote]

Funny thing is that very list is roughly the same length as it was before we even began.

[Brehon]

Two quick comments:

1. You know the last alliance that wanted to stay on the periphery and not be involved was punished for it.
2. With the talk of nations in Peace Mode, let us not forget when this offer was on the on table... NPO would bring out 1.7m ns (because we were concerned that anything over 1.5 million wasn't an immediate guaranty because of inactivity real life and etc to which we were told that was a lie) and to go to the 2m NS demand we wanted MK to match us NS to NS (so they would be force to pull out 300k more from PM)... well here is a snippet of that convo:

[spoiler]
01[22:48] <@Brehon[NPO]> Tell you what... for every amount of ns above the 1.7 we want equal ns pulled out of your bank nations (MK) (so I give 300k more and MK gives 300k, we have a list)
[22:48] <@[`_`]> [b]curious, how much MK NS is in peace mode?[/b]
01[22:48] <@Brehon[NPO]> Let me pull that up for yoU
[22:48] <@[`_`]> yes please do
01[22:53] <@Brehon[NPO]>[b] 50k+only... MK has 996,242+/- in peace mode[/b]
01[22:53] <@Brehon[NPO]> I didn't calculate after the .
[22:54] <@Ardus[MK]> At least one of those nations looks to be cruising for deletion due to inactivity
01[22:54] <@Brehon[NPO]> thats only 1 out of 996k
[22:55] <@Ardus[MK]> no, that's 71k out of 996k
[22:55] <@Ardus[MK]>
01[22:55] <@Brehon[NPO]> lol
01[22:55] <@Brehon[NPO]> About to give you your numbers under 50k, which would be fine for those to come out if thats better for you
[22:55] <@Ardus[MK]> If you want us to bring lower tiers out of peace mode I can make it happen
[22:55] <@Ardus[MK]> But even then, I don't think i can find 1 NS nations
01[22:55] <@Brehon[NPO]> So toss in a big one to make it work
01[22:55] <@Brehon[NPO]> Or we will match
01[22:56] <@Brehon[NPO]> 20-560k nations would work fine
01[22:56] <@Brehon[NPO]> sorry 20 to 60k nations My bad
[22:56] <%bakamitai[NPO]> I'll take one of those 560k nations with a side of fries, please
[22:57] <@Ardus[MK]> That's strong nuke territory there
[22:57] <@Ardus[MK]> 560k
01[22:57] <@Brehon[NPO]> I know right
01[22:57] <@Brehon[NPO]> LOL
01[22:59] <@Brehon[NPO]> in the 20-60k range you have about 651,440 NS
01[22:59] <@Brehon[NPO]> In peace
01[23:00] <@Brehon[NPO]> correction 692k
[23:01] <@Ardus[MK]> [b]We'll bring out 300k 20+; you bring out 2m, 3 weeks, 50/50 split between the ranges we discussed.[/b]
[23:02] <@Ardus[MK]> [b]20+ being the range[/b]
[23:02] <@Ardus[MK]> [b]That is your offer, correct?[/b]
[/spoiler]

Now mind you the conversation goes on and we list nations we would like out. As he should Ardus said he didn't like and would not grant us the ability to pick those nations, but I find this interesting:

[spoiler]
01[23:17] <@Brehon[NPO]> There you go, that is a quick 400K ns
01[23:18] <@Brehon[NPO]> Giving more and asking for something back
01[23:18] <@Brehon[NPO]> We have come a long way and we are giving trust, we are asking for some back.
[23:20] <@Ardus[MK]> I don't ask for your specific nations.
[23:20] <@Ardus[MK]> And I'm the victor here.
01[23:22] <@Brehon[NPO]> Really just asking for some of what was asked for us. Those nations that have been out of peace need to come fight
01[23:23] <@Brehon[NPO]> 2 million NPO peace nations into the pit
[23:24] <@Ardus[MK]> I cannot in good faith grant you the discretion to pick specific nations.
01[23:25] <@Brehon[NPO]> Its just a matter of singling out nations that have been in peace the entire time. Not even your top teir
03[23:26] * Mary_the_Fantabulous (andhellfol@3F43FBD4.39826A7B.F5CEE8E1.IP) has joined #npotalks
03[23:26] * ChanServ sets mode: +o Mary_the_Fantabulous
[23:27] <@Ardus[MK]> Don't particularly care. I cannot bring out those nations. I'm not keen on the idea of granting you that specific a discretion, nor am I willing to grant it over the overwhelming objection from the rest of MK government.
[23:27] <@Ardus[MK]> [b]I am willing to bring nations out of peace mode, but it won't be by your choosing.[/b]
[23:28] <@Ardus[MK]> This seems like a good stopping point. I really must depart for bed, as must many of the others.
01[23:28] <@Brehon[NPO]>[b] Fine, I can see your point. Then will you guaranty they are the nations that have been in peace mode the entire war as part of this peace agreement?[/b]
[23:29] <@Ardus[MK]> Since I don't have a full listing, I can't guaranty much of anything at the moment.
[/spoiler]

3 days later here was the decision:

[spoiler]
[21:02] <@Ardus[MK]> [b]Second, we're going to have to reject entirely the proposition that MK members will be emerging from peace mode to cover the 300k NS gap in our current opposing offers.[/b]
[21:02] <@Ardus[MK]> Third, we've prepared a new offer
[21:02] <@Ardus[MK]> 1.8m NS, 1m of which comes from 80k+, 0.8m of which comes from the 50-80 range, 3 weeks of war.
[/spoiler]

I don't mind that you (MK) didn't bring out the nations and I am not validating or invalidating any tactic, lets just stop all the rhetoric and just admit we used the same tactics. We (both sides) used/use peace mode and for our situations we found it a valid call. To say otherwise is a flat out lie. Again and let me be clear, I have no issues with what was negotiated, I have issues when people are trying to invalidate or validate something for the convenience of how it fits into the propaganda

Edited May 12, 2011 by Brehon

[ChairmanHal]

[quote name='Azaghul' timestamp='1305168574' post='2710422']
- An extended alliance to alliance war is not the equivalent of chasing people across re-rolls. EoG is not either.[/quote]

Getting off the EoG list requires visiting the GOONS forums and performing whatever the individuals there (some not even nation rulers anymore) demand. If you fail to do this, you are subject to attack whenever/where ever GOONS sees fit. There is no provision for re-rolls being exempt. Indeed, the circumstances under which they will attack are left vague on purpose, exactly as was NPO's policy.

I never stated that "extended" war was EZI, what I did say is that if NPO had not accepted terms that included allowing nation rulers to "get some" before peace was officially declared, then the war would have been continued in perpetuity. Is that something we need to bring back from "the bad old days"? really?

[quote]- Harsh terms to DT: got very, very little support outside of CSN and GOD.[/quote]

Yeah, DH found them so unpalatable, GOONS couldn't wait until the end of the "extended" war to sign with CSN.

[quote]- There are plenty of alliances outside the former SF/C&G/PB sphere that exist in peace.[/quote]

There were plenty of alliances in 2007-08 that lived in peace. Most all of them if they had any awareness of the world situation were actively looking to tie themselves to NPO, to an NPO ally, or hope that their neutrality held. Nails that stuck up too high were hammered down. I'm not seeing the "change" I was promised.

[Azaghul]

[quote name='ChairmanHal' timestamp='1305225837' post='2710756']
Getting off the EoG list requires visiting the GOONS forums and performing whatever the individuals there (some not even nation rulers anymore) demand. If you fail to do this, you are subject to attack whenever/where ever GOONS sees fit. There is no provision for re-rolls being exempt. Indeed, the circumstances under which they will attack are left vague on purpose, exactly as was NPO's policy.

I never stated that "extended" war was EZI, what I did say is that if NPO had not accepted terms that included allowing nation rulers to "get some" before peace was officially declared, then the war would have been continued in perpetuity. Is that something we need to bring back from "the bad old days"? really?[/quote]
"[i]EZI is replaced by EoG and the extending of conflicts simply because the winning side had nation rulers who didn't feel like they got enough war[/i]"

You directly compared extended war to EZI. Also by your standards anyone imposing any kind of terms for peace is imposing permanent war. That's a stretch.

[quote]Yeah, DH found them so unpalatable, GOONS couldn't wait until the end of the "extended" war to sign with CSN. [/quote]
They liked them for other reasons. I like GOD outside of the crazy terms and such they try to impose.

[quote]There were plenty of alliances in 2007-08 that lived in peace. Most all of them if they had any awareness of the world situation were actively looking to tie themselves to NPO, to an NPO ally, or hope that their neutrality held. Nails that stuck up too high were hammered down. I'm not seeing the "change" I was promised.
[/quote]
There isn't the same kind of rush to actively tie yourself to any alliance or ally of that alliance now.

[Azaghul]

[quote name='Brehon' timestamp='1305224088' post='2710748']
Two quick comments:

1. You know the last alliance that wanted to stay on the periphery and not be involved was punished for it.
2. With the talk of nations in Peace Mode, let us not forget when this offer was on the on table... NPO would bring out 1.7m ns (because we were concerned that anything over 1.5 million wasn't an immediate guaranty because of inactivity real life and etc to which we were told that was a lie) and to go to the 2m NS demand we wanted MK to match us NS to NS (so they would be force to pull out 300k more from PM)... well here is a snippet of that convo:

[spoiler]
01[22:48] <@Brehon[NPO]> Tell you what... for every amount of ns above the 1.7 we want equal ns pulled out of your bank nations (MK) (so I give 300k more and MK gives 300k, we have a list)
[22:48] <@[`_`]> [b]curious, how much MK NS is in peace mode?[/b]
01[22:48] <@Brehon[NPO]> Let me pull that up for yoU
[22:48] <@[`_`]> yes please do
01[22:53] <@Brehon[NPO]>[b] 50k+only... MK has 996,242+/- in peace mode[/b]
01[22:53] <@Brehon[NPO]> I didn't calculate after the .
[22:54] <@Ardus[MK]> At least one of those nations looks to be cruising for deletion due to inactivity
01[22:54] <@Brehon[NPO]> thats only 1 out of 996k
[22:55] <@Ardus[MK]> no, that's 71k out of 996k
[22:55] <@Ardus[MK]>
01[22:55] <@Brehon[NPO]> lol
01[22:55] <@Brehon[NPO]> About to give you your numbers under 50k, which would be fine for those to come out if thats better for you
[22:55] <@Ardus[MK]> If you want us to bring lower tiers out of peace mode I can make it happen
[22:55] <@Ardus[MK]> But even then, I don't think i can find 1 NS nations
01[22:55] <@Brehon[NPO]> So toss in a big one to make it work
01[22:55] <@Brehon[NPO]> Or we will match
01[22:56] <@Brehon[NPO]> 20-560k nations would work fine
01[22:56] <@Brehon[NPO]> sorry 20 to 60k nations My bad
[22:56] <%bakamitai[NPO]> I'll take one of those 560k nations with a side of fries, please
[22:57] <@Ardus[MK]> That's strong nuke territory there
[22:57] <@Ardus[MK]> 560k
01[22:57] <@Brehon[NPO]> I know right
01[22:57] <@Brehon[NPO]> LOL
01[22:59] <@Brehon[NPO]> in the 20-60k range you have about 651,440 NS
01[22:59] <@Brehon[NPO]> In peace
01[23:00] <@Brehon[NPO]> correction 692k
[23:01] <@Ardus[MK]> [b]We'll bring out 300k 20+; you bring out 2m, 3 weeks, 50/50 split between the ranges we discussed.[/b]
[23:02] <@Ardus[MK]> [b]20+ being the range[/b]
[23:02] <@Ardus[MK]> [b]That is your offer, correct?[/b]
[/spoiler]

Now mind you the conversation goes on and we list nations we would like out. As he should Ardus said he didn't like and would not grant us the ability to pick those nations, but I find this interesting:

[spoiler]
01[23:17] <@Brehon[NPO]> There you go, that is a quick 400K ns
01[23:18] <@Brehon[NPO]> Giving more and asking for something back
01[23:18] <@Brehon[NPO]> We have come a long way and we are giving trust, we are asking for some back.
[23:20] <@Ardus[MK]> I don't ask for your specific nations.
[23:20] <@Ardus[MK]> And I'm the victor here.
01[23:22] <@Brehon[NPO]> Really just asking for some of what was asked for us. Those nations that have been out of peace need to come fight
01[23:23] <@Brehon[NPO]> 2 million NPO peace nations into the pit
[23:24] <@Ardus[MK]> I cannot in good faith grant you the discretion to pick specific nations.
01[23:25] <@Brehon[NPO]> Its just a matter of singling out nations that have been in peace the entire time. Not even your top teir
03[23:26] * Mary_the_Fantabulous (andhellfol@3F43FBD4.39826A7B.F5CEE8E1.IP) has joined #npotalks
03[23:26] * ChanServ sets mode: +o Mary_the_Fantabulous
[23:27] <@Ardus[MK]> Don't particularly care. I cannot bring out those nations. I'm not keen on the idea of granting you that specific a discretion, nor am I willing to grant it over the overwhelming objection from the rest of MK government.
[23:27] <@Ardus[MK]> [b]I am willing to bring nations out of peace mode, but it won't be by your choosing.[/b]
[23:28] <@Ardus[MK]> This seems like a good stopping point. I really must depart for bed, as must many of the others.
01[23:28] <@Brehon[NPO]>[b] Fine, I can see your point. Then will you guaranty they are the nations that have been in peace mode the entire war as part of this peace agreement?[/b]
[23:29] <@Ardus[MK]> Since I don't have a full listing, I can't guaranty much of anything at the moment.
[/spoiler]

3 days later here was the decision:

[spoiler]
[21:02] <@Ardus[MK]> [b]Second, we're going to have to reject entirely the proposition that MK members will be emerging from peace mode to cover the 300k NS gap in our current opposing offers.[/b]
[21:02] <@Ardus[MK]> Third, we've prepared a new offer
[21:02] <@Ardus[MK]> 1.8m NS, 1m of which comes from 80k+, 0.8m of which comes from the 50-80 range, 3 weeks of war.
[/spoiler]

I don't mind that you (MK) didn't bring out the nations and I am not validating or invalidating any tactic, lets just stop all the rhetoric and just admit we used the same tactics. We (both sides) used/use peace mode and for our situations we found it a valid call. To say otherwise is a flat out lie. Again and let me be clear, I have no issues with what was negotiated, I have issues when people are trying to invalidate or validate something for the convenience of how it fits into the propaganda
[/quote]
Yet again you present the strawman that we are categorically opposed to any use of peace mode.

[Brehon]

[quote name='Azaghul' timestamp='1305227503' post='2710770']
Yet again you present the strawman that we are categorically opposed to any use of peace mode.
[/quote]

Did you read or did you glance through? I am going to assume the latter seeing as no where did I say you were opposed to any use of peace mode. In fact I stated: "I don't mind that you (MK) didn't bring out the nations and I am not validating or invalidating any tactic, lets just stop all the rhetoric and just admit we used the same tactics." Thus I am saying your use of PM and our use of PM are legitimate with both governments using it and considering it. If you are reading more into that you are attempting to argue to argue and for no other purpose than propaganda. Let it go.

Did I quote you.. no.
Did I use your name... no.

Put down your bullhorn and stop acting like you are the only person posting. If you are speaking for MK, my above stands 100% valid and true. If you are going to tell me its not, then you are flat out a liar. If you simply misunderstood, then no harm or foul.