Announcement from VE, PC, Fok, iFOK, MN, and NpO

[Crymson]

[quote name='Panic King' timestamp='1300170714' post='2665399']
At least you're smart enough to catch that .. I wanted to misspell "spell" but thought that was a bit much.
[/quote]

Whatever the case, I'm willing to bet that he speaks English better than you speak Spanish.

[Antonio Salovega VI]

[quote name='Electron Sponge' timestamp='1300150256' post='2665078']
(c) electron sponge 2007

You owe me royalties good sir.

Payable in one month, of course. Unless we decide to give these cheeky so-and-so's the old Agincourt salute, that is.
[/quote]

Perhaps you would care to provide your definition of the "old Agincourt salute"? The ones I am familiar with are:

[list]{OOC}1. Following the Battle of Agincourt, the victorious English longbowmen flashed the two-fingered salute to prove that the French had lost the battle. This was because the French, expecting an easy win, had promised to cut off the two fingers with which the English archers fired their deadly vollies of arrows.

2. During WW2, Churchill, deGaulle and others used it to signal the forthcoming victory. In a similar fashion, Nixon used it during his presidency.

3. In contrast, it came to signify "peace" by those in the Hippy movement of the late 60s and 70s.

4. In the UK, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa and Ireland, when flicked with the back of the hand away, two-fingered salute is considered to be an insulting gesture which is roughly equivalent to the U.S.'s one-fingered-FU-salute.{/OOC}[/list]

[size="1"]Edited to emplace OOC tags.[/size]

Edited March 15, 2011 by Antonio Salovega VI

[Libera]

Has the NpO learned its lesson this time?

[Panic King]

[quote name='Libera' timestamp='1300175402' post='2665424']
Has the NpO learned its lesson this time?
[/quote]
Just what lesson were they trying to convey? You're reading this thread and have to ask this question? Polaris didn't lose membership like the "victors". Polaris never floundered in it's goal to outlast the aggressor's in it's determination to prevail. Polaris did not "lose" in the sense that many on Bob hoped to see. Our senior members are as firm in their beliefs as they were before this war. Our newer members are impressed with our alliance's resolve and being "born" into a culture at war, know what to expect and not hold tight to the pixels as other alliances do. Polaris members know that to be Polar is not just dedication to a flag but a condition.

You think you weaken an alliance by depleating their NS, but the effect is the opposite. This war strengthened Polaris, increased inter-alliance activity, brought back many older rulers, and we gained many experienced, well regarded rulers from other alliances. Our allies were phenominal and we gained some respect for our foes. I am sure our foes did not expect the fight they received from us.

So you ask if we learned our lesson yet? Yep... I need a larger warchest for the next war. That is the only lesson my foes taught me. Everything else could stay the same.

o/ our foes... good war
o/ Polaris

[nutkase]

[quote name='AlmightyGrub' timestamp='1300169778' post='2665388']
My friend (and I use the word loosely), unlike you I have led my alliance through good times and through bad, I have stood at the brink of disaster and walked away intact, I have triumphed and I have lost. I have done something that made the world spit and cry, I have made the world hate and love. You on the other hand have hugged your pixels so tightly that even when you appear to risk something, it often appears you lose nothing much. A more cynical person than I would suggest it is because you are always protecting your pixels regardless of the wider ramifications of you actions.

You stand and call me a coward, you have the temerity and audacity to suggest I am a coward, and yet here you are as spineless as ever. You got screwed over, big deal, I have been screwed more times than a $2 hooker, but rather than piss and moan we fight, we rebuild and we take revenge as we see fit. You just seem to throw a fit. There is a difference. I will fight for what I believe in, you will fight when it doesn't hurt too much (except when you get played apparently which is why you are so upset)

You call me a coward, I laugh. I would suggest you bring it, but right now we seem to be out of each others range. I am indeed disappointed that we can not, at this time, fulfil our mutual destiny, but I am not a coward. Unlike you, Polaris has never ever hidden behind others, we have never shirked our responsibility to ourselves to fight for our own purposes. If I had to nominate the most cowardly alliance on Bob, I would nominate TOP first every time. Even some of the more useless alliances can be shamed into risking stuff when the odds are against them.

Keep holding your cards until you have all the aces, as is your style. I will be waiting in great anticipation as your ''stuff'' is junked by others and your tears will be truly the most delicious ever shed because they will be heartfelt tears as your precious precious pixels are erased without regard for your love for them.

If EVERYTHING MUST DIE then TOP MUST DIE as well, and I for one will enjoy it. It may be sooner than you think now you have associated yourselves where you have. No doubt you will find yet another way to jump ship when the time comes as your impecable record shows. As long as it doesn't cost you too much you will fight anywhere it is convenient?

Have fun now, I know I will.
[/quote]

Inferno is far from what I would call a coward.

Edited March 15, 2011 by nutkase

[Il Impero Romano]

[quote name='Panic King' timestamp='1300177860' post='2665435']
Just what lesson were they trying to convey? You're reading this thread and have to ask this question? Polaris didn't lose membership like the "victors".
[/quote]

Just to clear up that misconception, you lost around [i]170 [/i]nations. We lost about 60 (40 maybe), but don't recruit really during war. Be careful not to actually buy into your own propaganda.

Other then that, no, we weren't trying to "teach a lesson", so there is no need for anyone to get into that debate here. Whether you learned one or not is none of my concern. I find its best to keep focused only on actions and their subsequent consequences, which is what this was.

Edited March 15, 2011 by Il Impero Romano

[Panic King]

[quote name='Il Impero Romano' timestamp='1300178513' post='2665439']
Just to clear up that misconception, you lost around [i]170 [/i]nations. We lost about 60 (40 maybe), but don't recruit really during war. Be careful not to actually buy into your own propaganda.

Other then that, no, we weren't trying to "teach a lesson", so there is no need for anyone to get into that debate here. Whether you learned one or not is none of my concern. I find its best to keep focused only on actions and their subsequent consequences, which is what this was.
[/quote]
Respectfully.. your math is more than a bit off.

[Dr Beefstupid]

[quote name='Bergerland' timestamp='1300063980' post='2663742']
It is. Article 2 pertains to Article 1 and therefore expires when it does. Why are you the only person that doesn't get this?
[/quote]

[quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1300064494' post='2663770']
[img]http://www.emporia.edu/earthsci/garden/rock06.jpg[/img]
[/quote]

I absolutely love how you responded with that picture. Sure, you explained what you meant, but the meaning I got from that image was "because arguing with me is like arguing with a big rock."

[Il Impero Romano]

[quote name='Panic King' timestamp='1300179680' post='2665441']
Respectfully.. your math is more than a bit off.
[/quote]

Looks as though you factually lost about 160-150 members, so 170 off the top of my head is pretty darn close, particularly for this hour.

(To see for yourself, sort by alliance seniority. War started about 63 days ago, you were about 380-390 members. 120~ nations since the date the war began plus 40-30 since your currently at 350. At a point it was more actually, but it appears a good number of the first round of recruits kicked the bucket).

Water under the bridge at this point though, so don't worry about it.



Edit: As an aside, I have to admit that's some pretty impressive recruiting, wisdom of said wartime recruiting notwithstanding.

Edited March 15, 2011 by Il Impero Romano

[Penguin]

I can't believe I am about to argue about a statistic that is ridiculously easy to measure in a surrender thread. I hope you're all happy and we can stop this nonsense now.

[b]New Polar Order[/b]
362 on the first day
110 joined during the war
355 on the last day of the war
362-355+110=117
Loss of 117 original members

[b]Viridian Entente[/b]
323 on the first day
33 joined during the war
266 on the last day of the war
323-266+33=90
Loss of 90 original members

How many of them were ghosts or dropped the AA and rejoined later is anyone's guess.

Edited March 15, 2011 by Penguin

[Il Impero Romano]

[quote name='Penguin' timestamp='1300181448' post='2665450']
I can't believe I am about to argue about a statistic that is ridiculously easy to measure in a surrender thread. I hope you're all happy and we can stop this nonsense now.
[/quote]

Penguin, I'm obviously never happy.

But yea, I had you guys pinned in my head at 380ish at the start up for some reason, which is where the difference lie. Also, original point stands, but doesn't matter since like I said, all water under the bridge at this point.

Edited March 15, 2011 by Il Impero Romano

[NewPoseidon]

NpO (and Bob as a whole) will be more careful in the future. You can spin it one way and say they'll be careful of ebil "sting" conspiracies, or you can spin it another way and say they won't deliberately and consciously send out spies to major alliances. Either way, they'll be more careful. That is certain. I suppose I could acquiesce to the idea that the CB was debatable (even though it[i] shouldn't[/i] have been). But in the future it won't be.

Edited March 15, 2011 by NewPoseidon

[Mark Ashton]

[quote name='NewPoseidon' timestamp='1300185041' post='2665466']
NpO (and Bob as a whole) will be more careful in the future. You can spin it one way and say they'll be careful of ebil "sting" conspiracies, or you can spin it another way and say they won't deliberately and consciously send out spies to major alliances. Either way, they'll be more careful. That is certain. I suppose I could acquiesce to the idea that the CB was debatable (even though it[i] shouldn't[/i] have been). But in the future it won't be.
[/quote]

Everyone.is.scared!

[Penkala]

[quote name='mmansfield68' timestamp='1300157980' post='2665215']
Not saying my nation hasn't suffered some setbacks of a multi-alliance war. It's to be expected in a nuclear proliferated environment. Such is Cybernations.

But for you to be offering your betters (read: anyone in NpO, Electron Sponge specifically) silly tech proposals is ridiculous.
[/quote]


What?! His nation is 600 NS. It's quite rational to believe that he would sell tech and that I might buy it.

Seriously, what are you going on about?

[quote]I wouldn't sell you tech at a thousand times the price, and odds are none of my comrades will either.

You should sell me tech. Here's a deal for you, $1/150 tech. In a year this will be a deal for you. And I will offer it. And you will take it. And you will learn a little something. [/quote]

I love how you've been doing this for a few years now, and every time we just post up your quote in Polar's surrender thread and laugh at you. Thanks for providing us a gem for the next one!

Get out, Sponge.

Edited March 15, 2011 by Penkala

[Haflinger]

[quote name='Penkala' timestamp='1300189408' post='2665493']
What?! His nation is 600 NS. It's quite rational to believe that he would sell tech and that I might buy it.
[/quote]
It's quite rational to believe that he might sell tech, yes. If we weren't at war, I'd want to buy from him actually, to add another entry to my list of Tech Bought From Famous Old CN Personages.

You however collected taxes today with 1K infra. You obviously don't have enough warchest left to reach tech-buying size.

Edited March 15, 2011 by Haflinger

[Mayzie]

[quote name='Haflinger' timestamp='1300190625' post='2665502']
You however collected taxes today with 1K infra. You obviously don't have enough warchest left to reach tech-buying size.
[/quote]

It's Penkala, it's what he does. Stays tiny, attacks poxy little nations then brags about how he defeated them in his stupid blogs.

[Sir Humphrey]

[quote name='Antoine Roquentin' timestamp='1300171962' post='2665407']
Um, not really, if they had ended up never doing it, it would have been just the same curbstomp of Polar/co, but maybe a little worse and then NPO would get rolled a few months from now. The pezstar quote has been shown before for the hypothetical of [b]NPO[/b] entering and holding them off until all the alliances you mentioned got in. They predicted the preempt before that finished up, which is funny since it wasn't the actual plan to preempt NPO on the 20th or even really official on the 22nd. Some NPO allies have already said they were going to enter and it would have eventually enveloped most of them. We could have easily just attacked Legion with all the justification in the world since they should have been in the war and that would have forced the issue along with those other allies that were coming in getting countered.
[/quote]
I'm not exactly sure what point you are arguing, but I don't see how anything that you have said contradicts the point of my post (that is, that NPO's independent entry into the PB/NpO war would not have assisted Polar's side). (Should the bolded read NpO? That might solve part of my confusion)

More broadly (unrelated to my previous post), Doomhouse's characterisation of its DoW as "preemptive" is incorrect. "Preemptive" suggests that there was a specific identifiable and immediate threat that Doomhouse was preempting. On the contrary, the Doomhouse DoW [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=97693"]asserts[/url] that NpO and its allies were protecting NPO from entering the war, suggesting that there was no immediate threat. It seems that a better characterisation of the DoW is that it represents a "preventative" war, designed to prevent the future threat of a stronger NPO and address the balance of power. This is still purely based on Doomhouse's assumptions regarding NPO's actual intentions, but it seems a better description of its public justification for the war (though I still prefer FAN's honesty in admitting that it hit NPO simply because it wanted to).

Edited March 15, 2011 by Sir Humphrey

[Haflinger]

[quote name='Mayzie' timestamp='1300191112' post='2665508']
It's Penkala, it's what he does. Stays tiny, attacks poxy little nations then brags about how he defeated them in his stupid blogs.
[/quote]
There's nothing wrong with staying tiny, and being an attack dog, which is essentially what he is. The bragging is a bit over the top, but it doesn't really matter, and if it makes him happy I don't see anything wrong with it.

But attack dog nations that are there to finish off the ZI don't really want to be tech buyers.

[Rocky Horror]

[quote name='Haflinger' timestamp='1300193085' post='2665522']
There's nothing wrong with staying tiny, and being an attack dog, which is essentially what he is. The bragging is a bit over the top, but it doesn't really matter, and if it makes him happy I don't see anything wrong with it.

But attack dog nations that are there to finish off the ZI don't really want to be tech buyers.
[/quote]You don't hear of many war heroes whose job it was to beat up children in already captured territory. On a nation-size scale, there's nothing wrong with it, they're just kind of losers who can't fight the real war where it matters.

[Haflinger]

[quote name='Rocky Horror' timestamp='1300193496' post='2665527']
You don't hear of many war heroes whose job it was to beat up children in already captured territory. On a nation-size scale, there's nothing wrong with it, they're just kind of losers who can't fight the real war where it matters.
[/quote]
Well, those small fighters are important too. They stop enemy nations from getting to peace mode to reload, so strategically they're important.

[Mayzie]

[quote name='Haflinger' timestamp='1300193085' post='2665522']
There's nothing wrong with staying tiny, and being an attack dog, which is essentially what he is. The bragging is a bit over the top, but it doesn't really matter, and if it makes him happy I don't see anything wrong with it.

But attack dog nations that are there to finish off the ZI don't really want to be tech buyers.
[/quote]

I knew I should've put more to that post. I guess what I was pointing out is that he has no intention of reaching a tech buying size, he's just having a jab at NpO.

[Rocky Horror]

[quote name='Haflinger' timestamp='1300193712' post='2665529']
Well, those small fighters are important too. They stop enemy nations from getting to peace mode to reload, so strategically they're important.
[/quote]I've never seen them turn the tide of a war in the same way large nations, built over the same time frame with barely more effort, can.

[neneko]

[quote name='Haflinger' timestamp='1300193712' post='2665529']
Well, those small fighters are important too. They stop enemy nations from getting to peace mode to reload, so strategically they're important.
[/quote]
While keeping the enemy out of peacemode if possible is important it doesn't really have that big effect on these nation since they can only do this against people at their size.

Overall nations like penkalas and methrages have little more impact on the war effort than the average nation at that size.

[Buds The Man]

[quote name='Penkala' timestamp='1300152425' post='2665105']
Would you like to sell me tech? Just for you, $3m / 150.
[/quote]

You know there is an old quote out there somewhere about letting sleeping dogs lay. I will give you this piece of advice Penkalla you are not in the same class as sponge and if he wants you he will eventually get you. His track record speaks for itself. Take the WOTC out of it where he was basically forced from power hes been a string puller on bob before you or I ever got here. No im not a sponge fan but I can give respect where it is due. Bravado is great but being stupid is just being stupid.

[potato]

Can I get tech from Sponge then?