A Dark Templar Announcement

[D34th]

[i]“They were so strong in their beliefs that there came a time when it hardly mattered what exactly those beliefs were; they all fused into a single stubbornness”[/i]

[Lord Brendan]

[quote name='Stewie' timestamp='1298483148' post='2642934']
Still requesting 40k Tech. Just that some of the tech goes to Legacy now.
[/quote]

30k tech* now, actually. The restriction on who can pay has also been dropped.

*10k to CSN, 20k to Legacy

Edited February 23, 2011 by Lord Brendan

[MaGneT]

[quote name='Lord Brendan' timestamp='1298483361' post='2642937']
30k tech* now, actually. The restriction on who can pay has also been dropped.

*10k to CSN, 20k to Legacy
[/quote]
Ah, so much more reasonable .

[D34th]

IIRC Legancy said that they didn't want reparations? CSN made they change their minds?

[Joe Stupid]

There was a restriction on who could pay it?

[Lord Brendan]

[quote name='MaGneT' timestamp='1298483521' post='2642938']
Ah, so much more reasonable .
[/quote]

Somewhat more reasonable, surely. Seeing as you were at one point willing to pay the whole 40k, a 25% reduction seems pretty good.

It's getting lower, if slowly. Fight hard and you might only pay 20k.

[quote name='D34th' timestamp='1298483669' post='2642940']
IIRC Legancy said that they didn't want reparations? CSN made they change their minds?
[/quote]

This was explored on the previous page. It was DT's idea to pay Legacy instead of CSN, and we agreed.

Edited February 23, 2011 by Lord Brendan

[Stewie]

Fight hard my Dark Taliban Brethren and you'll reduce the reps to 0

[Lord Brendan]

[quote name='Stewie' timestamp='1298483760' post='2642944']
Fight hard my Dark Taliban Brethren and you'll reduce the reps to 0
[/quote]

That is my hope as well.

[SpacingOutMan]

[quote name='D34th' timestamp='1298482479' post='2642929']
So after 70 pages of discussion something has changed? Or CSN still is requesting 40k tech as reparations?
[/quote]
[quote name='Stewie' timestamp='1298483148' post='2642934']
Still requesting 40k Tech. Just that some of the tech goes to Legacy now.
[/quote]

If that's what you want to say it is, then go ahead and do so, but it's not the case.

[Deathsmile]

[quote name='Lord Brendan' timestamp='1298480426' post='2642911']
So you have about [s]half[/s] my warchest with three times my infrastructure and I've been fighting a nuclear war for nearly a month. Man, MK is slipping.

edit: forgot WRC multiplier, our warchests are probably similar
[/quote]

Brendan, you seem to pat your back a lot just because your WC is a little over 2bill. But whats funny is with all that extra cash and all the extra NS on me,you still lost all 4 of your GA's against me while i was being blitzed by two people.

Oh, and you can keep saying all of CSN's are bigger then people think. Well we know thats just a cover for what the truth is. I believe ill be putting Liz in bill lock in 2-3days, and my other aggressor wont be too far behind. You guys might want to come up with some kind of oh idk... WC check in list? That way you dont have to lie to yourself about where you stand.

[smurthwaite]

I am so tired of this thread and kind of hate myself for posting in the midst of personal attacks and half truths used in the guise of evidence.

Here is how it works. DT attacked Legacy, a former protectorate of CSN and a current treaty holder with CSN. CSN countered, as would have been expected.

LESS THAN A WEEK LATER, DT asked for peace. They didn't even wait for the end of the round. CSN government wanted to send a message. You don't mess with our allies.

Now, CSN did start with a ridiculously high reps. We knew that. It a place to start with negotiations. We never expected DT to just say, "OK, we'll give you 40k tech." However, DT didn't want to play the negotiation game. They didn't want to play the game at all. They wanted to take their ball and go home (for those who will take this out of context, please realize that I am building an analogy). Remember the kids on the playground in elementary school who started to lose and instead of digging in and trying to find a way out, they through a fit? That is what happened. That is it. DT's government had a tantrum. (OOC - I have children of my own. As a parent, I tell you they never get what they want if they throw a tantrum). They have then dumped partial logs, told half truths, and even used a hacked board's private CSN conversation against us (I have even seen my words used against CSN by the trolls out there).

Please hear me before the trolling starts. Most people in CSN have enjoyed the conversations we have had with DT members; we, however, will not give in to demands given in the midst of a temper tantrum.

The ball is in, and has been in, court; they just don't want to play; they keep trying to go home without finishing the game.

I'm not even sure why I am trying. There are so many people who made up their mind before they had even half the facts that they just started trolling. There are just as many who heard all the facts. Both sides know who they are. I'll probably never speak here again. Or maybe I will jump on the troll bandwagon.

Also: ICE CREAM.

[fant0m]

[quote name='Lord Brendan' timestamp='1298480426' post='2642911']
So you have about [s]half[/s] my warchest with three times my infrastructure and I've been fighting a nuclear war for nearly a month. Man, MK is slipping.

edit: forgot WRC multiplier, our warchests are probably similar
[/quote]

Well I heard you have around what I have (2.5 bil) but that hardly proves anything about CSN's warchests on a whole. Not to mention my warchest is pretty average for a upper nation in a good alliance (NEW-FARK war cost me at least a billion).

Anyway I'm done with this thread. I just hope CSN come to their senses and realise their rep demands are nothing short of ridiculous. Happy nuking to all before peace can be reached though.

Edited February 23, 2011 by fant0m

[ihateaaron]

Has the thought occurred to you that starting with "ridiculously high reps" could perhaps make your enemy not want to negotiate?

Have you ever purchased a vehicle? You don't go in looking at a new Ferrari and offer them $1000. The dealer doesn't start at $1,000,000,000. You start below what you are willing to pay, but not so low as to insult them. The dealer does the same thing to you, except he starts higher. Negotiations are a pretty standard deal, and perhaps CSN government needs some practice?

I am not a fan of big reps at all. My personal preference would be to see white peace on this matter.

[Lord Brendan]

[quote name='Deathsmile' timestamp='1298484305' post='2642951']
Brendan, you seem to pat your back a lot just because your WC is a little over 2bill. But whats funny is with all that extra cash and all the extra NS on me,you still lost all 4 of your GA's against me while i was being blitzed by two people.

Oh, and you can keep saying all of CSN's are bigger then people think. Well we know thats just a cover for what the truth is. I believe ill be putting Liz in bill lock in 2-3days, and my other aggressor wont be too far behind. You guys might want to come up with some kind of oh idk... WC check in list? That way you dont have to lie to yourself about where you stand.
[/quote]

You have 3 times my infrastructure and I was too lazy to co-ordinate with those who could nuke. Of course the odds are against me on the ground. We'll see how things look in a week.

We've actually had people ragequit because they thought we had [i]too many[/i] check-ins.

[Bob Janova]

Here's an idea ... Legacy and DT can sign that white peace they both agree is appropriate, and DT can use that pressure on CSN instead

[Rebel Virginia]

[quote name='Joe Stupid' timestamp='1298483674' post='2642941']
There was a restriction on who could pay it?
[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]Originally only nations with 2k+ tech could pay the reps.[/color]

[kerschbs]

[quote name='smurthwaite' timestamp='1298484350' post='2642953']
I am so tired of this thread and kind of hate myself for posting in the midst of personal attacks and half truths used in the guise of evidence.

Here is how it works. DT attacked Legacy, a former protectorate of CSN and a current treaty holder with CSN. CSN countered, as would have been expected.

LESS THAN A WEEK LATER, DT asked for peace. They didn't even wait for the end of the round. CSN government wanted to send a message. You don't mess with our allies.

Now, CSN did start with a ridiculously high reps. We knew that. It a place to start with negotiations. We never expected DT to just say, "OK, we'll give you 40k tech." However, DT didn't want to play the negotiation game. They didn't want to play the game at all. They wanted to take their ball and go home (for those who will take this out of context, please realize that I am building an analogy). Remember the kids on the playground in elementary school who started to lose and instead of digging in and trying to find a way out, they through a fit? That is what happened. That is it. DT's government had a tantrum. (OOC - I have children of my own. As a parent, I tell you they never get what they want if they throw a tantrum). They have then dumped partial logs, told half truths, and even used a hacked board's private CSN conversation against us (I have even seen my words used against CSN by the trolls out there).

Please hear me before the trolling starts. Most people in CSN have enjoyed the conversations we have had with DT members; we, however, will not give in to demands given in the midst of a temper tantrum.

The ball is in, and has been in, court; they just don't want to play; they keep trying to go home without finishing the game.

I'm not even sure why I am trying. There are so many people who made up their mind before they had even half the facts that they just started trolling. There are just as many who heard all the facts. Both sides know who they are. I'll probably never speak here again. Or maybe I will jump on the troll bandwagon.

Also: ICE CREAM.
[/quote]

Thank god you are not allowed to negotiate for CSN. You don't start with a ridiculously high asking rate, because people will not take you seriously. All you did with your ridiculous rep demand is push DT away from the negotiations, and turned what should have been a pretty easy process into this SNAFU.

Well done.

[SpacingOutMan]

[quote name='kerschbs' timestamp='1298485636' post='2642973']
Thank god you are not allowed to negotiate for CSN. You don't start with a ridiculously high asking rate, because people will not take you seriously. All you did with your ridiculous rep demand is push DT away from the negotiations, and turned what should have been a pretty easy process into this SNAFU.
[/quote]

Which is why negotiations continued to take place after the initial terms, right? Just because this war isn't over doesn't mean that negotiations just all of a sudden ceased to exist after the first offer.

Well done on having no clue what you are talking about.

[MaGneT]

[quote name='smurthwaite' timestamp='1298484350' post='2642953']
I am so tired of this thread and kind of hate myself for posting in the midst of personal attacks and half truths used in the guise of evidence.[/quote]
And we open the floor for some half truths in the guise of evidence. . . now!

[QUOTE]Here is how it works. DT attacked Legacy, a former protectorate of CSN and a current treaty holder with CSN. CSN countered, as would have been expected.[/QUOTE]
All true, very good to defend your allies. Thank you for cleverly omitting that we were defending our allies.
Wait! I SPY A HALF TRUTH!

[QUOTE]LESS THAN A WEEK LATER, DT asked for peace. They didn't even wait for the end of the round. CSN government wanted to send a message. You don't mess with our allies. [/QUOTE]
. . . perhaps they sent the message of "don't mess with our allies" by declaring war on us? Gee, how could we have overlooked that one!
Oh, what's that Mr. Voice in my Head? Another half truth? WOW! Hypocrisy strikes again!

Looks like someone conveniently forgot the entire scenario involving the front closing off! That makes everything look completely different, now, doesn't it? It suddenly makes sense for DT to want to stop a war if the war no longer has a purpose, doesn't it?

[QUOTE]Now, CSN did start with a ridiculously high reps. We knew that. It a place to start with negotiations. We never expected DT to just say, "OK, we'll give you 40k tech."[/QUOTE]
Then why ask for it? Why say that the offer is going to stay at 40,000 tech? Why not say that you do not feel ready to talk about peace terms yet? Why narrow the way that it can be paid to only nations above 2,000 tech?
[i]Where is the justification for any of this?[/i]

[QUOTE]However, DT didn't want to play the negotiation game. They didn't want to play the game at all. They wanted to take their ball and go home (for those who will take this out of context, please realize that I am building an analogy). Remember the kids on the playground in elementary school who started to lose and instead of digging in and trying to find a way out, they through a fit? That is what happened. That is it. DT's government had a tantrum. (OOC - I have children of my own. As a parent, I tell you they never get what they want if they throw a tantrum). [/QUOTE]
Ah, facts, facts, facts . . . how they can nip at our behinds. You've gone from half truths to outright distortions. The first time the reps were demanded, what did Supa do? Did he storm out while cursing? No. He said that he didn't think DT would be accepting that, but said that he would post it anyway for discussion.
(Dur, he gone done and take his ball home now, huh?)
DT has offered counter-offer after counter-offer, some of them numbering up to 30,000 tech in payments to CsN and Legacy. We still want white peace, but we really want to get out of a pointless war. We have no problem sacrificing ourselves if it is for a cause. The only cause here is the one that CsN is giving us. Time and time again your leadership has proven that their goal here is to neuter DT by taking our tech.

Speaking of taking our ball and going home, why don't you read the logs? See how many times your leadership walked out on talks because we asked "why do you think that we deserve this?" Watch Liz throw a fit when we propose white peace. And you think we're being childish? Learn to think.

[QUOTE]They have then dumped partial logs, told half truths, and even used a hacked board's private CSN conversation against us (I have even seen my words used against CSN by the trolls out there).[/QUOTE]
Partial logs? Only one set of logs in the OP is partial. It says that it is partial because there is a ton of idle chit chat that goes on during that talk. We did not want to waste anyone's time. Obviously you had trouble reading the part that said that we would be happy to release the full log to anyone who was curious.

As far as the private CsN conversations being used against you, which seems to be the line that you guys are being taught to say in private, that's a load of garbage. Can you prove that it was in any way used against you by DT or DT's government? If you're referring to the OP, in which we stated that it was unfortunate that the information was revealed, but we cannot ignore it and then we expressed our solidarity to those in CsN who disagree with their government, as using private conversation against you . . . well, I really can't go further than that. If that isn't obvious to you that there was no malicious intent in our recognition of that information, then I should be offering to pay for a first grade teacher to tutor you in reading comprehension above all else . . .

[QUOTE]Please hear me before the trolling starts. Most people in CSN have enjoyed the conversations we have had with DT members; we, however, will not give in to demands given in the midst of a temper tantrum.[/QUOTE]
Again with the temper tantrums. Read the logs. Read the OP. What sounds to you like a petulant child not getting their way and what sounds like a reasonable argument?

[QUOTE]The ball is in, and has been in, court; they just don't want to play; they keep trying to go home without finishing the game.

I'm not even sure why I am trying. There are so many people who made up their mind before they had even half the facts that they just started trolling. There are just as many who heard all the facts. Both sides know who they are. I'll probably never speak here again. Or maybe I will jump on the troll bandwagon.

Also: ICE CREAM.
[/quote]
That's where you are wrong. Everyone on this front believes that white peace was the answer. Everyone still believes that. [i]Except CsN[/i]. The ball has and will continue to be in your court. We have even tried to pay your unreasonable demands just for the sake of alliances like LoSS and Legacy, who have no reason to keep fighting except the fact that neither of them want to look cowardly. When we did that, the demands simply became stricter.

Frankly, when you're going to come post here and try to sound like you're some objective observer, then you spew a whole bunch of ignorant hypocritical garbage all over the thread, I'm going to make you look and feel like an idiot every single time. You should learn how to gather the facts, assess them and form your own objective opinion rather than spouting the party line that has been debunked time and time again. Until then, I'd recommend taking your own advice of never speaking here again.

Welcome to the OWF,
Magnet <3

[Dochartaigh]

[quote name='Sarmatian Empire' timestamp='1298478846' post='2642889']
This is not the case. We have told CSN repeatedly that we do not want reps. We have told this to DT as well. DT came to us with the idea that they pay us instead of CSN. We wanted nothing to do with it, but in an effort to help end the war we agreed to accept reps and passed the idea along to CSN. What happens after that is out of my control
[/quote]

[quote name='sammykhalifa' timestamp='1298479848' post='2642907']
When I first heard it, I thought it was a pretty creative compromise to try to end the impasse. If anything I saw it as us giving concessions to DT (in some twisted, bizarro-world way), not as us letting CSN tell us what to do as some people seem to be implying.
[/quote]

i can see both these arguments. which is why i did alter my opinion from CSN telling Legacy what to do, to CSN still having a lot to do with the decision. If not for CSN, DT would not have had to go to Legacy to try this deal and if not for CSN Legacy would not have had to contemplate taking this deal.

[quote name='smurthwaite' timestamp='1298484350' post='2642953']
I am so tired of this thread and kind of hate myself for posting in the midst of personal attacks and half truths used in the guise of evidence.

Here is how it works. DT attacked Legacy, a former protectorate of CSN and a current treaty holder with CSN. CSN countered, as would have been expected.

LESS THAN A WEEK LATER, DT asked for peace. They didn't even wait for the end of the round. CSN government wanted to send a message. You don't mess with our allies.

Now, CSN did start with a ridiculously high reps. We knew that. It a place to start with negotiations. We never expected DT to just say, "OK, we'll give you 40k tech." However, DT didn't want to play the negotiation game. They didn't want to play the game at all. They wanted to take their ball and go home (for those who will take this out of context, please realize that I am building an analogy). Remember the kids on the playground in elementary school who started to lose and instead of digging in and trying to find a way out, they through a fit? That is what happened. That is it. DT's government had a tantrum. (OOC - I have children of my own. As a parent, I tell you they never get what they want if they throw a tantrum). They have then dumped partial logs, told half truths, and even used a hacked board's private CSN conversation against us (I have even seen my words used against CSN by the trolls out there).

Please hear me before the trolling starts. Most people in CSN have enjoyed the conversations we have had with DT members; we, however, will not give in to demands given in the midst of a temper tantrum.

The ball is in, and has been in, court; they just don't want to play; they keep trying to go home without finishing the game.

I'm not even sure why I am trying. There are so many people who made up their mind before they had even half the facts that they just started trolling. There are just as many who heard all the facts. Both sides know who they are. I'll probably never speak here again. Or maybe I will jump on the troll bandwagon.

Also: ICE CREAM.
[/quote]

1) it has already been stated that LoSS/TIO and Hydra were in the process of working up a peace deal. so DT went to CSN to begin peace talks representing the only alliances DT could, DT and our protectorate FHU.

2) you don't conduct "negotiations" by stating "40k, take it or leave it" as CSN did. ya'll keep stating how "DT never played the negotiation game" when it was CSN who actually did not play the game:

[22:15] <Goose|warmonger|> 1) Dark Templar hereby surrender to The Commonwealth of Sovereign Nations and Legacy (hereafter referred to as DT, CSN and Legacy). As an instrument of surrender, DT will pay 40,000 technology to CSN.
[22:15] <Goose|warmonger|> 1.5) Only DT nations with over 2,000 technology at the time of signing this will be elligible to send out technology as reparations. CSN shall provide the approved list to DT and monitor the aid.
[22:15] <Goose|warmonger|> 2) The Dark Templar shall refrain from re-entering the NpO-VE conflict or any wars resulting from it (this includes the NPO-Doomhouse front).
[22:15] <Goose|warmonger|> 3) These terms will last a period of three months. During those three months the Dark Templar will be under the protection of CSN and Legacy. If all reparations are not paid by the time these terms expire, the peace and all payments will be considered void.
[22:18] <Supa_Troop3r[DT]> Yah I don't think we will be agreeing to that. But I'll post it up in our gov.
[22:18] <Goose|warmonger|> Okay.
[b][22:19] <Goose|warmonger|> These are the terms. It matters not when you take it.
[22:19] <Liz> The number remains the same Supa. Whether it happens now or in 3 weeks from now. Is that the point of disagreement?[/b]

as shown by the first set of logs in the OP. so, now we can end the "DT did not want to play" card since it was actually CSN who refused to play at first.

3) DT has tried several times to negotiate. CSN has either refused, refused and then accepted 30 hours later, or set the terms and then refused to even hold talks until they are accepted. i can not conceive how you think it is DT that is somehow taking their ball and going home...

4) these are the facts. sure, it appears CSN has partially accepted yet [b]another[/b] negotiation made by [b]DT[/b] but it tacked on terms unacceptable to DT. so, as always, the ball has been, continues to be, and will always be in CSN's court.

5) it appears you are not amongst those who have heard all the facts and are in fact going off of the propaganda machine over at CSN which is spitting out half-truths. how about you just read the logs (hell, skip the stuff written in between) and then compare that to what you have been told. you will notice that CSN is the one who typically refuses to negotiate, walks out, or if they do accept a negotiation made by DT they ensure that they add something that would be known to be unacceptable to DT.

[General Ozujsko]

[quote name='Sarmatian Empire' timestamp='1298478846' post='2642889']
What happens after that is out of my control
[/quote]

Of course it is. Admin forbid Sarm ever take a stand for any position.



EDIT: Wow, Mag and Doch just double-teamed that post...lol. Someone better call Olivia Benson...

Edited February 23, 2011 by General Ozujsko

[Dochartaigh]

[quote name='SpacingOutMan' timestamp='1298485921' post='2642976']
Which is why negotiations continued to take place after the initial terms, right? Just because this war isn't over doesn't mean that negotiations just all of a sudden ceased to exist after the first offer.

Well done on having no clue what you are talking about.
[/quote]

the only reason negotiations continued was due to outside pressure put on CSN. if there was no outside pressure on CSN, i could almost guarantee the terms would still read:

[22:15] <Goose|warmonger|> 1) Dark Templar hereby surrender to The Commonwealth of Sovereign Nations and Legacy (hereafter referred to as DT, CSN and Legacy). As an instrument of surrender, DT will pay 40,000 technology to CSN.
[22:15] <Goose|warmonger|> 1.5) Only DT nations with over 2,000 technology at the time of signing this will be elligible to send out technology as reparations. CSN shall provide the approved list to DT and monitor the aid.
[22:15] <Goose|warmonger|> 2) The Dark Templar shall refrain from re-entering the NpO-VE conflict or any wars resulting from it (this includes the NPO-Doomhouse front).
[22:15] <Goose|warmonger|> 3) These terms will last a period of three months. During those three months the Dark Templar will be under the protection of CSN and Legacy. If all reparations are not paid by the time these terms expire, the peace and all payments will be considered void.

[SpacingOutMan]

But... that was the Overlord Puppetmaster's terms! WE ARE JUST PUPPETS!!! D:

I disagree, though, notably the fact that the terms have [s]been halved[/s] [i][b]dropped[/b][/i] on our own accords. Whether or not they are agreeable is obviously what this discussion is about, though I guess we will have to agree to disagree on the point of the reasons why we negotiated to lower terms.

EDIT:

Halved isn't the right word... dropped by 10k. Damn my math skills.

Edited February 23, 2011 by SpacingOutMan

[MaGneT]

[quote name='SpacingOutMan' timestamp='1298486751' post='2642987']
But... that was the Overlord Puppetmaster's terms! WE ARE JUST PUPPETS!!! D:

I disagree, though, notably the fact that the terms have been halved on our own accords. Whether or not they are agreeable is obviously what this discussion is about, though I guess we will have to agree to disagree on the point of the reasons why we negotiated to lower terms.
[/quote]
Well, since you're the MoFA of CsN and I have a good idea of what a lot of people in DT want, I'll tell you straight up.

Our main sticking points are the tech going to CsN, the sources of tech and military decom. We do not want to pay CsN as you guys are not who we attacked. We do not want to have to damage our own nations in sending the tech (though CsN seems to want to weaken DT. . . perhaps you know that you've made a dangerous enemy). We also do not want to have to rely on others for our own defense. While we have the utmost faith in our allies, we pride ourselves on being a powerful military alliance. We like the idea of being able to help ourselves and our allies without handicap should they need it.

[TypoNinja]

[quote name='MaGneT' timestamp='1298480698' post='2642914']

Mathematically, yes, it's cheaper just to toss 40,000 tech over to CSN. But the price is steeper than that. That price includes our integrity and our dignity.[/quote]

It was too late to preserve your dignity the second the OP went up.


[quote]
We at DT feel that there is no logical reason that we ought to be paying reps as a peripheral alliance in today's world.[/quote]

You feel? And this automatically makes things so? I hate to point out the obvious but the world does not obey the feelings of DT. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean that's not the way it is. Yea alliances that leave the war early usually get easy terms as a tactical consideration, encouraging people to leave to secure early advantage. Guess what skippy? You guys misjudged how far along the war was. You thought you could get away with jumping in and walking off because our side would simply want you out of the war. Now you are stuck with the consequences of declaring a losing war.

[quote]
We know that we are being extorted and deliberately weakened. [/quote]

Of course you are, stop acting like its something surprising or new. Every set of reparations in CN history has been extortion, you pay or you keep getting nukes, every set of terms (that were real terms and not a glorified white peace) is crafted to secure an even larger advantage over your defeated enemy. These are basic realities but apparently they surprise DT.

[quote]We will not take that lying down. Instead of giving CsN 40,000 tech, we're going to destroy most of theirs. We're going to destroy their infrastructure. We're going to put as many nations in bill lock as we can. If we are destroyed, we will leave CsN in complete ruins. There are things that are more important than our statistics. I'll explain with this timeless quote.[/quote]

People love to go on and on about how little they value their infra as if its a badge of honor. Its not. It's stupid. Being willing to fight for a cause is admirable. Fighting because you lack strategic sense is just foolish. It's no coincidence that the most prominent alliances in the game also happen to be the alliances with the highest NS and/or ANS.

[quote]"Our integrity sells for so little. And yet it's all we really have. It is the very last inch of us. And in that inch, we are free." We will not give them that inch. Our nations may be destroyed, but so will theirs. But we have the resolve to handle that. And we have the resolve to rebuild every last bit after the dust clears.[/quote]

A pretty speach but let us know when you are getting around to a point.

[quote]
(Of course, if anyone can posit a logical reason that DT ought to pay reps, I may change my view)[/quote]

Its been layed out several times. You are just ignoring it.


[quote]So would you agree that this entire situation is born of either CsN's greed for tech, unfounded malice towards the Dark Templar, or both? Would you agree that the nations of your alliance are sacrificing their hard work for the tyranny of CsN and their cronies and controllers? It seems that you agree that white peace is and always has been and always will be the answer on that front. Can you tell me why CsN doesn't feel the same way?[/quote]

I'd agree you are a blind fool spouting propoganda and attempting to put words in somebodies mouth. CSN has even already told you their motives, but you still haven't clued in.
[quote]
Sarm, I understand about being a loyal ally, I really do, but there is a limit to every virtue. At this juncture, your loyalty is helping an alliance grown diseased with their own power oppress the innocent purely out of a sadistic desire to strip us of our hard earned tech. Though you do not morally support what is being done, you continue to follow them down this path of wrongdoing. I don't blame you for what is happening, but by aiding CsN militarily, you have become as complicit as they are.[/quote]

Oh sure trash talk somebodies ally as a way to convince them of your point of view, that will work for sure!


[quote]To support an ally is an admirable thing. To support an ally that has become a tyrant is quite the contrary.[/quote]

Tell me again why you guys declared war on Legacy?


[quote name='MaGneT' timestamp='1298483521' post='2642938']
Ah, so much more reasonable .
[/quote]

Yea it is. After you guys jerked them around on talks, and threw a hissy fit on the OWF, they still went down with the demands. Significantly. CSN is being way more generous to you than I would. At this point I wouldn't cut you any slack, just because you threw a tantrum, until after you apologized for your startling lack of diplomatic abilities.