Lord Boris Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 [quote name='Stewie' timestamp='1298483760' post='2642944'] Fight hard my Dark Taliban Brethren and you'll reduce the reps to 0 [/quote] And in a stunning burst of irony, 0 is probably fairly close to what most CSN members will have for infra by the time they decide to walk away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Brendan Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 [quote name='Lord Boris' timestamp='1298492475' post='2643057'] And in a stunning burst of irony, 0 is probably fairly close to what most CSN members will have for infra by the time they decide to walk away. [/quote] A week after this war is over, I intend to have more infrastructure than ever before. Maybe buy myself a new wonder too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaGneT Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 [quote name='TypoNinja' timestamp='1298491731' post='2643048'] It was too late to preserve your dignity the second the OP went up.[/QUOTE] Really? Stating our case to the world sacrifices our dignity? Quit the gestapo crap the went out of style years ago. Conducting business in public is only an offense in the eyes of those who are too ashamed of their conduct or their allies' conduct for the world to see. [QUOTE]You feel? And this automatically makes things so? I hate to point out the obvious but the world does not obey the feelings of DT. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean that's not the way it is. Yea alliances that leave the war early usually get easy terms as a tactical consideration, encouraging people to leave to secure early advantage. Guess what skippy? You guys misjudged how far along the war was. You thought you could get away with jumping in and walking off because our side would simply want you out of the war. Now you are stuck with the consequences of declaring a losing war.[/QUOTE] We have explained why we feel this way dozens of times. Do not take the word "feel" and distort everything we have argued. If you read back anywhere in these 72 pages, including the OP, you'll understand that this feeling is based on much more than emotion. [QUOTE]Of course you are, stop acting like its something surprising or new. Every set of reparations in CN history has been extortion, you pay or you keep getting nukes, every set of terms (that were real terms and not a glorified white peace) is crafted to secure an even larger advantage over your defeated enemy. These are basic realities but apparently they surprise DT.[/QUOTE] You are speaking from a bygone world. Besides, there have been terms that are mutually beneficial but still show surrender (for example, mandated tech deals). [QUOTE]People love to go on and on about how little they value their infra as if its a badge of honor. Its not. It's stupid. Being willing to fight for a cause is admirable. Fighting because you lack strategic sense is just foolish. It's no coincidence that the most prominent alliances in the game also happen to be the alliances with the highest NS and/or ANS.[/QUOTE] We apologize for having principles. Some of us are in this for more than our own skins. Some of us don't align with whoever the ruling party is so we don't get rolled. Some of us aren't cowards. [QUOTE]I'd agree you are a blind fool spouting propoganda and attempting to put words in somebodies mouth. CSN has even already told you their motives, but you still haven't clued in.[/QUOTE] The fact that they want to weaken us? Screw that, we'll weaken them more. The fact they think that they are entitled to extortion because they are the victors? We do not recognize such a point of view. [QUOTE]Oh sure trash talk somebodies ally as a way to convince them of your point of view, that will work for sure![/QUOTE] I am telling Sarm my opinion. My opinion of CsN is not a positive one. You take him for an idiot - anyone knows that the anti-CsN rhetoric in that post should be taken with a grain of salt as I am quite anti-CsN in this matter. That being said I feel that I made a valid point. [QUOTE]Tell me again why you guys declared war on Legacy?[/QUOTE] This is a pathetic attempt at a "gotcha!" I said that defending an ally is admirable. That's what we did. Assisting an ally in tyranny amounts to tyranny. That's what I'm advising Sarm against. Are you too thick to understand that? [QUOTE]Yea it is. After you guys jerked them around on talks, and threw a hissy fit on the OWF, they still went down with the demands. Significantly. CSN is being way more generous to you than I would. At this point I wouldn't cut you any slack, just because you threw a tantrum, until after you apologized for your startling lack of diplomatic abilities. [/quote] Really? A hissy fit? A well-thought out and argued thread is a hissy fit? News to me . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chefjoe Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 [quote name='SpacingOutMan' timestamp='1298485921' post='2642976'] Which is why negotiations continued to take place after the initial terms, right? Just because this war isn't over doesn't mean that negotiations just all of a sudden ceased to exist after the first offer. Well done on having no clue what you are talking about. [/quote] I think the negotiations ended when your leader thru a tantrum on the blog forum and gave an ultimatum that in his own words are 'non-negotiable, take them or burn'... So imo what you are really saying above is that negotiations continued after CSN's initial horrendous 'offer' but have now ceased as per your own leaders post.... /me claps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dejarue Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 (edited) [quote name='MaGneT' timestamp='1298486058' post='2642979'] DT has offered counter-offer after counter-offer, some of them numbering up to 30,000 tech in payments to CsN and Legacy. We still want white peace, but we really want to get out of a pointless war. We have no problem sacrificing ourselves if it is for a cause. The only cause here is the one that CsN is giving us. Time and time again your leadership has proven that their goal here is to neuter DT by taking our tech. [/quote] Wasn't the offer from CSN about a week ago 10k to CSN and 10k to Legacy with no restrictions, and you refused it? Am I inconveniencing you by posting that here while you pretend you've been offering to pay 30k tech here on the OWF and then go back to the negotiation table and demand white peace? [quote name='Lord Boris' timestamp='1298492475' post='2643057'] And in a stunning burst of irony, 0 is probably fairly close to what most CSN members will have for infra by the time they decide to walk away. [/quote] Why? Is there going to be a bloc of alliances declaring on us? Oooooh I hope you're in it. Edited February 23, 2011 by dejarue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaGneT Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 [quote name='dejarue' timestamp='1298495451' post='2643099'] Wasn't the offer from CSN about a week ago 10k to CSN and 10k to Legacy with no restrictions, and you refused it? [/quote] I'm genuinely unaware of that offer. If it was 15k Legacy 5k CSN, I'd advocate to accept that in a heartbeat. While I am against reps at all, I cannot condone the damage that is being done to LoSS and Legacy nations as this continues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BamaBuc Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 [quote name='TypoNinja' timestamp='1298491731' post='2643048'] It was too late to preserve your dignity the second the OP went up. [/quote] Just wondering... Did you actually read the responses in this thread? Our entire side and a damn good bit of yours are in here supporting DT. With a few exceptions, it's only CSN and their direct allies supporting them. Only one alliance has lost its dignity in this thread and it is not the Dark Templar. -Bama Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dejarue Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 [quote name='MaGneT' timestamp='1298495626' post='2643104'] I'm genuinely unaware of that offer. If it was 15k Legacy 5k CSN, I'd advocate to accept that in a heartbeat. While I am against reps at all, I cannot condone the damage that is being done to LoSS and Legacy nations as this continues. [/quote] Perhaps I am misinformed, but I thought that was the last offer made. /me rummages around and calls his senator. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpacingOutMan Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 [quote name='chefjoe' timestamp='1298493533' post='2643067'] I think the negotiations ended when your leader thru a tantrum on the blog forum and gave an ultimatum that in his own words are 'non-negotiable, take them or burn'... So imo what you are really saying above is that negotiations continued after CSN's initial horrendous 'offer' but have now ceased as per your own leaders post.... /me claps [/quote] Uh, what? The initial terms were 40k. Then there was a counter-offer. And then there was an additional counter-offer when Goose walked out. And then there was a counter-counter-offer. And then there was Goose's blog post which is, more or less, an offer (pay or burn). And then there was a (notwithstanding) counter-offer made by DT which is seemingly on the table (which was, as far as I know, available prior to Goose's blog). So if that's what you were implying I said, then you are correct. But perhaps you should have read the quote I was quoting because it seems that you got lost in the context at some point along the way. [quote name='dejarue' timestamp='1298495804' post='2643107'] Perhaps I am misinformed, but I thought that was the last offer made. /me rummages around and calls his senator. [/quote] That is the last offer made by DT (it was said earlier a few pages ago). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TypoNinja Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 [quote name='MaGneT' timestamp='1298493210' post='2643064'] Really? Stating our case to the world sacrifices our dignity? Quit the gestapo crap the went out of style years ago. Conducting business in public is only an offense in the eyes of those who are too ashamed of their conduct or their allies' conduct for the world to see. [/quote] Running to the OWF and throwing a hissy fit when negotiations didn't go your way sacrifices your dignity. Act like Statesmen instead of school children and you'll find diplomatic processes like negotiations go much smoother. [quote]We have explained why we feel this way dozens of times. Do not take the word "feel" and distort everything we have argued. If you read back anywhere in these 72 pages, including the OP, you'll understand that this feeling is based on much more than emotion.[/quote] Is this going to be a repeat of gre where I have to explain to people the basic meanings of the words they are misusing? Yes its based on emotion, that's why is a [i]feeling[/i] insated of say a fact, or reality. [quote]You are speaking from a bygone world. Besides, there have been terms that are mutually beneficial but still show surrender (for example, mandated tech deals). [/quote] No I don't. You are speaking from a deluded version of the world as you think it ought to be instead of as it is. In the real world when you lose a war you declared you pay for it. Being 3 or 30 chains out from the center of the main conflict does not guarantee you easy exit. Things like mandated tech deals are for opponents the victor likes. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say CSN probably isnt your biggest fan right now. [quote] We apologize for having principles. Some of us are in this for more than our own skins. Some of us don't align with whoever the ruling party is so we don't get rolled. Some of us aren't cowards.[/quote] Are you going to get around to a point any time soon or just keep repeating meaningless platitudes as if you were actually saying something of substance? Or even related to the initial point that spawned this regurgitation of platitudes? Or are you trying to tell me that one of the core principles of DT is to continue a losing war to the long term detriment of your alliance because of your own arrogance and incompetence? If that's the case then I agree. [quote] The fact that they want to weaken us? Screw that, we'll weaken them more.[/quote] I doubt it, or you wouldn't have been entertaining surrender talks. If you were in a position to come out on top you'd be the ones giving terms, not taking them. [quote]The fact they think that they are entitled to extortion because they are the victors? We do not recognize such a point of view.[/quote] Ok, be deluded. Welcome to what happens when you lose a war, you get given terms. Your recognition or not of the point does not change reality. Losers of a war surrender. Surrender comes with terms, and in this context usually tech. [quote]I am telling Sarm my opinion. My opinion of CsN is not a positive one. You take him for an idiot - anyone knows that the anti-CsN rhetoric in that post should be taken with a grain of salt as I am quite anti-CsN in this matter. That being said I feel that I made a valid point[/quote]. no I take you for an idiot, not sarm. I rather like Legacy myself (I've got a soft spot for anything green!) You can keep trying to put words in peoples mouths but at least be a little more subtle about it. Or notice the sarcasm when I taunted you about trash talking his allies. For those (like you) who miss the blindingly obvious, I was pointing out that trash talking somebodies allies is a [i]bad[/i] way to try to get them to side with you. [quote]This is a pathetic attempt at a "gotcha!" I said that defending an ally is admirable. That's what we did. Assisting an ally in tyranny amounts to tyranny. That's what I'm advising Sarm against.[/quote] DoW chart shows you declaring on Legacy and DT declaring on you, that looks CSN defending, not you. If that's in error, please enlighten us, and the war chart creators as well! [quote]Are you too thick to understand that?[/quote] No, I got it, you havent had an orignal thought this whole thread, you spout half truths, put words in peoples mouths and attempt to uphold some standard you invented as how the world should work as reality instead of attempting to deal with actual reality. I understand you perfectly. [quote] Really? A hissy fit? A well-thought out and argued thread is a hissy fit? News to me . . . [/quote] The fact that you think anything you've posted was well thought out or reasoned just underlines the point. A child throwing a temper tantrum is always convinced he's right. It doesn't stop it from being a tantrum though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Trail Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 just give eachother white peace and be done with this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaGneT Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 [quote name='TypoNinja' timestamp='1298496782' post='2643120'] Orally emitted fecal matter [/quote] You literally replied with a series of "no u's". You are yet to challenge an argument that I have posted in this thread, from the OP until page 72. The only thing I can say that you have genuinely offered a position on is the fact that you feel that a winning alliance can demand reps, regardless of the situation. I disagree. I feel that is immoral, as does DT. We have diametrically opposed views: while I support equal and fair treatment in similar situations, you support whatever is done as long as it is done by someone you are connected to. It's really shameful to see this lack of regard from a member of an alliance that has been trampled before. Have you forgotten your roots? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mythicknight Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 Xiphlins! [i]Grammenwealth[/i]. Goosedolphin...I give up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wishywashy Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 I had started to write up a pretty long post addressing a lot of the random arguments thrown into this thread, but I guess they don't really matter. All of the tough guy posturing in here is hilarious, by the way. Hey, CSN. Most of us had never heard of you before now. You asked a small alliance for 1/3 of their tech in reps because they used an ODP and hit your ally (Who, by the way, had entered the war on an oA)? Well, that's clearly ridiculous, but hey, we all had a laugh, and no hard feelings. Now, please give DT the white peace that everyone else on your front wants and has been getting. I really don't know what you're trying to accomplish here, CSN. It's like, hey, we know asking for 40k tech in reps was really stupid, but we can't afford the ego hit of admitting that we're only human and we made a mistake, so we'll slowly lower the amount of reps and convince our allies to take reps they don't even want. I don't think anyone cares if you lower the amount of tech from 40k to 30k or even 20k; it's still ridiculous and insulting. Anything that DT does pay to you will have no longterm benefits, and you're doing far more damage to yourselves, coming off as greedy dbags to all of CN. The only people on your side are people like Typo, calling 73 pages of discussion a hissy fit just because it was written by "the other side". In any case, good luck to my allies in DT in achieveing peace. I hope I didn't come off too annoyed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xoindotnler Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 [quote name='The Trail' timestamp='1298500068' post='2643156'] just give eachother white peace and be done with this. [/quote] No, I love seeing a alliance with a ego the size of a minivan do stupid stuff like this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Trail Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 [quote name='xoindotnler' timestamp='1298502377' post='2643185'] No, I love seeing a alliance with a ego the size of a minivan do stupid stuff like this. [/quote] Both alliances are being stupid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaGneT Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 [quote name='The Trail' timestamp='1298502404' post='2643186'] Both alliances are being stupid [/quote] I'm not being my sarcastic and insulting self here, for the record. You're a third-party observer with really no connection so I value you input. How is DT being stupid? I genuinely want to be as rational as I can through this, but as you may imagine, it's pretty damn frustrating. So I welcome reality checks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xoindotnler Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 [quote name='The Trail' timestamp='1298502404' post='2643186'] Both alliances are being stupid [/quote] I have decide that one was stupid, and there other one could have handled it a little better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Trail Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 [quote name='MaGneT' timestamp='1298502609' post='2643190'] I'm not being my sarcastic and insulting self here, for the record. You're a third-party observer with really no connection so I value you input. How is DT being stupid? I genuinely want to be as rational as I can through this, but as you may imagine, it's pretty damn frustrating. So I welcome reality checks. [/quote] The blog post was too much Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaGneT Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 [quote name='The Trail' timestamp='1298502701' post='2643194'] The blog post was too much [/quote] blog post? Whose? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buds The Man Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 [quote name='dejarue' timestamp='1298495451' post='2643099'] Wasn't the offer from CSN about a week ago 10k to CSN and 10k to Legacy with no restrictions, and you refused it? Am I inconveniencing you by posting that here while you pretend you've been offering to pay 30k tech here on the OWF and then go back to the negotiation table and demand white peace? Why? Is there going to be a bloc of alliances declaring on us? Oooooh I hope you're in it. [/quote] Deja to my knowledge their was never a 10-10 offer that could be paid by anybody. Doesnt mean it didnt happen but I never heard about it either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Trail Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 [quote name='MaGneT' timestamp='1298502880' post='2643199'] blog post? Whose? [/quote] Sorry I should really put on my glasses CSN: Blog post, asking for all the reparations, only changing to give legacy some when they found out DT and by extension OWF were actually right DT: Making threats by using allies who have already white peaced and cant re-enter (from what I can gather) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpacingOutMan Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 [quote name='Wishywashy' timestamp='1298501991' post='2643181'] All of the tough guy posturing in here is hilarious, by the way.[/quote] So you're going to feed them by calling them out? Brilliant. [quote]Hey, CSN. Most of us had never heard of you before now.[/quote] Witty. This line has definitely not been overused over the last three years or something. [quote] Now, please give DT the white peace that everyone else on your front wants and has been getting.[/quote] Very assertive. I am [i]totally[/i] convinced now. Your opinion is irrelevant to the current process (unless DT takes it as moral support, then by all means enjoy your quandary of relevancy), so don't feel to sad when we don't give into your demands. [quote]The only people on your side are people like Typo[/quote] Our friends know exactly who they are and that's all that matters to the Commonwealth. But your claim that all of our friends are against us constantly reminds me of those friendships. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thrash Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 [quote name='The Trail' timestamp='1298503253' post='2643202'] DT: Making threats by using allies who have already white peaced and cant re-enter (from what I can gather) [/quote] Care to enlighten us where that happened? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Trail Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 [quote name='Thrash' timestamp='1298505538' post='2643221'] Care to enlighten us where that happened? [/quote] its what CSN claims to have happened and has been hinted at by other posters in this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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