mikeyw Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 (edited) So, just as a summary, are there any talks at all going on, except via the OWF? From what I can gather over the past 75 pages, the two parties are still at opposite ends of the playground, shouting over their shoulders at each other while blinking back tears, with nothing new being offered, still arguing about what happened weeks ago. Going back to the opponent with an offer, no matter how desultory, isn't a show of weakness - it's how deals are done, how cars get sold (not ice creams), how divorces get settled. It's a show of maturity, strength and confidence in your alliance that you aren't too proud to flex a little, and there seems to be a need for some face saving here. And saying that you were flexible weeks ago doesn't count. So come on, it really shouldn't take this long. CSN - if you really think you are winning, then be magnanimous, seize the initiative and get talking with something realistic. DT - reps might be morally wrong, but a token gesture might go a long way. You'll be doing everybody a big favour, not least yourselves, as I'm sure you don't want another 75 pages either. Edited February 25, 2011 by mikeyw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Brendan Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 I believe SOM has been having frequent discussions with DT, but nothing has come of them yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaGneT Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 [quote name='Lord Brendan' timestamp='1298655289' post='2644827'] I believe SOM has been having frequent discussions with DT, but nothing has come of them yet. [/quote] Unfortunately. Though we do love SOM. Would it be bad for peace talks if we stole him from you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpacingOutMan Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 [quote name='MaGneT' timestamp='1298661338' post='2644855'] Unfortunately. Though we do love SOM. Would it be bad for peace talks if we stole him from you? [/quote] Oh, I can already foresee the inevitable plot... DT steals me away, thus making me Helen of Troy. They whisk me away and bring me to their beautiful cities while CSN goes lolmad, has Xiphosis become Agamemnon and invade DT. All the while RIA dances happily around a camp fire singing "Rock-a-by-Baby". Oh yea, Fark will be there too... they'll be the drunks in the Greek/Trojan-equivalent of bars/mead halls/whatever those people called them. As for the Trojan Horse... that can be Sarm (since he is sporting Achilles as his avatar) and he will run around throwing Chicken Parmesan (since parm rhymes with Sarm) at everyone. [OOC: We just learned a bunch of needless garbage about the mythology of the Trojan War in my classical philosophies class. I felt I needed to air it out or else I'd explode from its uselessness, albeit being quite interesting.] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Power Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 [quote name='SpacingOutMan' timestamp='1298664010' post='2644879'] Oh, I can already foresee the inevitable plot... DT steals me away, thus making me Helen of Troy. They whisk me away and bring me to their beautiful cities while CSN goes lolmad, has Xiphosis become Agamemnon and invade DT. All the while RIA dances happily around a camp fire singing "Rock-a-by-Baby". Oh yea, Fark will be there too... they'll be the drunks in the Greek/Trojan-equivalent of bars/mead halls/whatever those people called them. As for the Trojan Horse... that can be Sarm (since he is sporting Achilles as his avatar) and he will run around throwing Chicken Parmesan (since parm rhymes with Sarm) at everyone. [/quote] Now [i]this[/i] I can agree with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaGneT Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 [quote name='SpacingOutMan' timestamp='1298664010' post='2644879'] Oh, I can already foresee the inevitable plot... DT steals me away, thus making me Helen of Troy. They whisk me away and bring me to their beautiful cities while CSN goes lolmad, has Xiphosis become Agamemnon and invade DT. All the while RIA dances happily around a camp fire singing "Rock-a-by-Baby". Oh yea, Fark will be there too... they'll be the drunks in the Greek/Trojan-equivalent of bars/mead halls/whatever those people called them. As for the Trojan Horse... that can be Sarm (since he is sporting Achilles as his avatar) and he will run around throwing Chicken Parmesan (since parm rhymes with Sarm) at everyone. [OOC: We just learned a bunch of needless garbage about the mythology of the Trojan War in my classical philosophies class. I felt I needed to air it out or else I'd explode from its uselessness, albeit being quite interesting.] [/quote] . . . you're threatening to bring SF into this, aren't you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Winters Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 [quote name='Penkala' timestamp='1297655801' post='2632171'] You probably WON'T pay CSN 40k tech. That was their price to get out of a war so early. You bandwagoned onto a conflict to hit a CSN ally, and they aren't going to let you off light for that. I imagine you'll fight a bit longer, and be given much lower terms or white peace. If we're still in this same position in two weeks, I'll join you in decrying CSN's actions. If CSN hasn't reduced / eliminated reps within two weeks, you'll be right. But this war hasn't been going on long. And it will continue until DT's lost sufficient NS, or has agreed to pay reparations for its actions. [/quote] Two days left, what are the reps at? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Brendan Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Sam Winters' timestamp='1298669359' post='2644950'] Two days left, what are the reps at? [/quote] 30k with no restrictions, which is a significant reduction from the original terms, even if they aren't yet agreeable to DT. What I'm saying is, Penkala has plenty of wiggle room. Edited February 25, 2011 by Lord Brendan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hizzy Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 Still retarded. I honestly can't fathom how conceited CSN must be to presume they deserve reps because someone attacked their ally. Note to Planet Bob: if CSN wants a treaty with you, it's probably just so they can get paid if/when you get attacked. You certainly don't see VE demanding reps from all the people who hit Nueva Vida, you know why? cause it's a !@#$@#$ retarded concept. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penkala Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Sam Winters' timestamp='1298669359' post='2644950'] Two days left, what are the reps at? [/quote] Reps have been significantly lowered -- significantly. Just like I said I expected of CSN. [quote]Note to Planet Bob: if CSN wants a treaty with you, it's probably just so they can get paid if/when you get attacked. [/quote] You're better than this, but if you really do believe it, I'd like to remind you that CSN is NOT entering into wars to lose millions of NS just so that they can be paid 10k tech. That's absurd. Edited February 25, 2011 by Penkala Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Brendan Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 [quote name='hizzy' timestamp='1298673823' post='2644980'] Still retarded. I honestly can't fathom how conceited CSN must be to presume they deserve reps because someone attacked their ally. Note to Planet Bob: if CSN wants a treaty with you, it's probably just so they can get paid if/when you get attacked. You certainly don't see VE demanding reps from all the people who hit Nueva Vida, you know why? cause it's a !@#$@#$ retarded concept. [/quote] The idea that we're doing this out of greed is really quite silly. If that were the case we would be taking reparations from LoSS as well, we would not have imposed payment restrictions at any point (who cares where it comes from if we just want the tech?), we would have accepted their counter-offer immediately (and we would now be sitting pretty with 40k tech incoming) and most importantly, we wouldn't have entered the war at all since there is no way one can possibly profit from a nuclear war. Not to mention all the past occasions we have let defeated enemies walk away with no reparations, under the same leadership as we have now. There is obviously something different about this instance. There are many legitimate criticisms that can be made of our part in this war, but greed is not one of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaGneT Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 Even I have to rule out greed as a current motive, though I do think that it was definitely a factor at the start of this. Now I think CSN isn't backing down fully because they know that they were wrong but cannot admit it to their members after the sacrifices many of them have made. And Penkala - 75% of absurd reps does not make them stop being absurd. They are still ridiculous. Half of that would be mildly acceptable, if only to stop damaging the nations of LoSS and Legacy. With 2.5k of the 15k going to CSN with no restrictions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amossio Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Penkala' timestamp='1298674484' post='2644987'] You're better than this, but if you really do believe it, I'd like to remind you that CSN is NOT entering into wars to lose millions of NS just so that they can be paid 10k tech. That's absurd. [/quote] Yer CSN doesn't enter wars for reps, instead they enter wars where they have no VALID CB, instead of actually entering one for their allies.... oh hai penkala Edited February 25, 2011 by Amossio Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Scipio Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 [quote name='SpacingOutMan' timestamp='1298664010' post='2644879'] Oh, I can already foresee the inevitable plot... DT steals me away, thus making me Helen of Troy. They whisk me away and bring me to their beautiful cities while CSN goes lolmad, has Xiphosis become Agamemnon and invade DT. All the while RIA dances happily around a camp fire singing "Rock-a-by-Baby". Oh yea, Fark will be there too... they'll be the drunks in the Greek/Trojan-equivalent of bars/mead halls/whatever those people called them. As for the Trojan Horse... that can be Sarm (since he is sporting Achilles as his avatar) and he will run around throwing Chicken Parmesan (since parm rhymes with Sarm) at everyone. [OOC: We just learned a bunch of needless garbage about the mythology of the Trojan War in my classical philosophies class. I felt I needed to air it out or else I'd explode from its uselessness, albeit being quite interesting.] [/quote]{ooc} Are you really complaing about learning needless garbage in a classical philosophies class?[/ooc] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Brendan Posted February 26, 2011 Report Share Posted February 26, 2011 [quote name='Amossio' timestamp='1298676643' post='2645002'] Yer CSN doesn't enter wars for reps, instead they enter wars where they have no VALID CB, instead of actually entering one for their allies.... oh hai penkala [/quote] There are numerous causes for our entry into the war. You can call it a preemptive attack or part of coalition warfare, both apply. We could have made a long chain of ghost DoWs to get to you first, but personally I've always felt those were silly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpacingOutMan Posted February 26, 2011 Report Share Posted February 26, 2011 [quote name='MaGneT' timestamp='1298668237' post='2644945'] . . . you're threatening to bring SF into this, aren't you! [/quote] Damn, the veiled messages has been decoded! All aardvarks, stand down immediately. I repeat, operation armadillo is now in effect. BYAH! [quote name='Sam Winters' timestamp='1298669359' post='2644950'] Two days left, what are the reps at? [/quote] Two days until what? [quote name='General Scipio' timestamp='1298676755' post='2645004'] {ooc} Are you really complaing about learning needless garbage in a classical philosophies class?[/ooc] [/quote] [OOC: Touche, needless to say I should have seen this coming... especially when it was explicitly included in the course description and syllabus. ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Winters Posted February 26, 2011 Report Share Posted February 26, 2011 [quote name='Lord Brendan' timestamp='1298678906' post='2645025'] There are numerous causes for our entry into the war. You can call it a preemptive attack or part of coalition warfare, both apply. We could have made a long chain of ghost DoWs to get to you first, but personally I've always felt those were silly. [/quote] Besides Liz not liking Phoebus or some such, and Gibs being sad about his fail smugs, what other reasons you got for hitting LOSS? Again, if it was "we don't like you", why not just make that the DoW instead of BS fake logs? A pre-emptive strike proposes that LOSS would have hit CSN, which wasn't the case as CSN wasn't engaging any of our allies. Coalition warfare...that's what the band-wagoners and those with personal vendettas scream when the world disagrees with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twodivine Posted February 26, 2011 Report Share Posted February 26, 2011 [quote name='mikeyw' timestamp='1298618660' post='2644563'] So, just as a summary, are there any talks at all going on, except via the OWF? From what I can gather over the past 75 pages, the two parties are still at opposite ends of the playground, shouting over their shoulders at each other while blinking back tears, with nothing new being offered, still arguing about what happened weeks ago. Going back to the opponent with an offer, no matter how desultory, isn't a show of weakness - it's how deals are done, how cars get sold (not ice creams), how divorces get settled. It's a show of maturity, strength and confidence in your alliance that you aren't too proud to flex a little, and there seems to be a need for some face saving here. And saying that you were flexible weeks ago doesn't count. So come on, it really shouldn't take this long. CSN - if you really think you are winning, then be magnanimous, seize the initiative and get talking with something realistic. DT - reps might be morally wrong, but a token gesture might go a long way. You'll be doing everybody a big favour, not least yourselves, as I'm sure you don't want another 75 pages either. [/quote] Mikeyw, I like to say those token gestures have been given to them to think about and have yet to accepted. Their still on the extreme and the token gestures are there for them to pick and chose from. But until then we're at a stand still. We'd like to get this over with but it takes 2 to find middle ground. We're standing around and waiting for the other party to show up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoFish Posted February 26, 2011 Report Share Posted February 26, 2011 [quote name='Myworld' timestamp='1298681634' post='2645055'] Mikeyw, I like to say those token gestures have been given to them to think about and have yet to accepted. Their still on the extreme and the token gestures are there for them to pick and chose from. But until then we're at a stand still. We'd like to get this over with but it takes 2 to find middle ground. We're standing around and waiting for the other party to show up. [/quote] And then when they do you'll try to make them give you white peace and an apology, amirite? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twodivine Posted February 26, 2011 Report Share Posted February 26, 2011 [quote name='NoFish' timestamp='1298682324' post='2645066'] And then when they do you'll try to make them give you white peace and an apology, amirite? [/quote] We're past that. The offers are out there. None of them have apology to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarmatian Empire Posted February 26, 2011 Report Share Posted February 26, 2011 [quote name='Myworld' timestamp='1298682714' post='2645073'] We're past that. [/quote] I'll drink to that. Bickering about past offers and how they were handled is doing no good for current..."talks" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krashnaia Posted February 26, 2011 Report Share Posted February 26, 2011 [quote name='SpacingOutMan' timestamp='1298664010' post='2644879'][OOC: We just learned a bunch of needless garbage about the mythology of the Trojan War in my classical philosophies class. I felt I needed to air it out or else I'd explode from its uselessness, albeit being quite interesting.][/quote] Not so needless. You can now watch that Troy flick starring Brad Pitt and have a good laught. (Or vomit, as it could be the case). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Brendan Posted February 26, 2011 Report Share Posted February 26, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Sam Winters' timestamp='1298680564' post='2645040'] Besides Liz not liking Phoebus or some such, and Gibs being sad about his fail smugs, what other reasons you got for hitting LOSS? Again, if it was "we don't like you", why not just make that the DoW instead of BS fake logs? A pre-emptive strike proposes that LOSS would have hit CSN, which wasn't the case as CSN wasn't engaging any of our allies. Coalition warfare...that's what the band-wagoners and those with personal vendettas scream when the world disagrees with them. [/quote] Well, at the time we attacked you, GATO had recently attacked RIA and been hit by GOD, TTK and CRAP as a result. You were lightly engaged at the time and as a main ally of GATO it seems reasonable to assume you would assist, so we were preemptively defending whoever you would have attacked, all four of which we have defense pacts with. Citing coalition warfare is just avoiding all the unnecessary e-lawyering and treaty chains. It's how nearly all wars play out, whether everyone is honest to themselves about it or not. You were on one side, we were on the other. Edited February 26, 2011 by Lord Brendan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaGneT Posted February 26, 2011 Report Share Posted February 26, 2011 [quote name='Lord Brendan' timestamp='1298694244' post='2645192'] Citing coalition warfare is just avoiding all the unnecessary e-lawyering and treaty chains. It's how nearly all wars play out, whether everyone is honest to themselves about it or not. You were on one side, we were on the other. [/quote] Oh, so that's cool, but actual treaties, even optional ones, aren't? I really don't need to prove this point any more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Brendan Posted February 26, 2011 Report Share Posted February 26, 2011 (edited) [quote name='MaGneT' timestamp='1298694673' post='2645195'] Oh, so that's cool, but actual treaties, even optional ones, aren't? I really don't need to prove this point any more. [/quote] Ah, but the context is everything here. If the context was the same in both cases I don't think anyone would object to your entry into the war. Edited February 26, 2011 by Lord Brendan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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