A Sad GOONS Announcement

[Jamven]

GOONS,

I am sorry you guys got caught in the political crossfire. I must admit that you grew on me. As Midnight stated earlier in the thread, I was sure you were going to pull a stunt that got myself and GOD rolled. Looks like I am eating those words. You were good allies that got the raw end of the deal. Just know that a treaty is nothing but words on paper, the real friendship is between the people. Just because the treaty is gone, doesn't mean the kinship must die.

See you on the flip side

[Buds The Man]

[quote name='Locke' timestamp='1293650352' post='2557512']
If the Purple Unity boards were still up and I had a mask, I would show you. Olympus organized the drive, but all of PEACE contributed. Medals were given out to all who did so, and there's probably a topic on the OWF somewhere that mentions it. And don't misjudge my intentions, my comments have nothing to do with your affiliation; I just like to call out !@#$%^&* when I see it. To complain that someone else needed aid when you willingly accepted a great deal of aid is quite silly.

I do love how you take my comments from one thread and extrapolate it to all of my posts; I don't think that outside of the PoP thread I've said a word about Val or purple in general since my tenure in Invicta, and for that matter I said nothing then about Val. Clearly though one thread makes a pattern. [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/PYU3Q.gif[/IMG] Drop the victim complex; again, this has nothing to do with who your alliance is and everything to do with what you said.
[/quote]
What BS are you calling. I simply stated they took aid 2 days in to the war not after the war DURING the war so how are the two even comparable let alone my statement being BS.

Either way Im still amazed this thread has stay alive this long.

Xiph you did what you thought was right and you always stick to your guns I will always respect that even if I believe your dead wrong in this instance.

[Locke]

[quote name='Buds The Man' timestamp='1293652620' post='2557547']
What BS are you calling. I simply stated they took aid 2 days in to the war not after the war DURING the war so how are the two even comparable let alone my statement being BS.
[/quote]
I explained it, and if you don't get it, well...I could really care less. [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/3hY30.gif[/IMG] I'm not here for your edification.

[General Scipio]

[quote name='Jamven' timestamp='1293649942' post='2557509']
So you are telling us who we can and can't hold a grudge against? How sinfully... [i]ironic[/i]



Can't speak for the rest of my brothers; but yeah, I be pissed.
[/quote]
You should go as your Suprefriends in RIA and Fark how many nukes they sent into GGA while GGA nuked GOONS with impunity.

[Some-Guy]

[quote name='Vol Navy' timestamp='1293648505' post='2557484']
Actually Xiph says he spoke with TOP and every alliance on that front before speaking to Echelon at all. But that all he got was a lecture from Crymson about evil reps. [/quote]

No one talked to TOP about the very silly Echelon terms before putting our name (my name, in fact) to it and presenting it as our front's considered peace terms.

Two years ago I was pretty cross about that. I figure I got over it about a year and a half ago, like any normal person.

[quote]I think GOD was also pretty mad about the no nukes deal which left GOD to face the nukes that weren't used on TOP.
[/quote]

Yeah, TOP's no nuke agreement was, all things considered, the wrong choice to make. No argument there.

GOD can have yet another apology for that if they like, since it, you know, actually happened.

[EViL0nE]

[quote name='General Scipio' timestamp='1293654193' post='2557565']
You should go as your Suprefriends in RIA and Fark how many nukes they sent into GGA while GGA nuked GOONS with impunity.
[/quote]
I'm pretty sure, anything Fark has ever done to hurt GOONs is so amazingly justified, it's not even worth talking about. How long was Fark kept at war again? How long did they have a viceroy for? Seriously, that's not the best comparison to make...

[King Louis the II]

Sad to see this. I really like Xiphosis and I think sardonic has been doing an outstanding job with Goons.

While I can understand Xiphs problem with TOP, I believe people and alliances can change. Furthermore, it look like that Polaris is getting closer and closer to Pacifica, which I don't think Is on GOD interest.

Edit- grammar

Added: best wishes to God and Goons

Edited December 29, 2010 by King Louis the II

[General Scipio]

[quote name='EViL0nE' timestamp='1293655623' post='2557582']
I'm pretty sure, anything Fark has ever done to hurt GOONs is so amazingly justified, it's not even worth talking about. How long was Fark kept at war again? How long did they have a viceroy for? Seriously, that's not the best comparison to make...
[/quote]
Except that your allies did the same exact thing that you guys are saying you'll never forgive TOP for. But ok, lets say Fark was justified in the action, go ahead and explain how RIA was?

I'm not angry about it or anything, it's just funny that you hate TOP with such a passion over something that happened two years ago while just ignoring that your allies did the samething in the past.

[Vol Navy]

[quote name='Some-Guy' timestamp='1293655264' post='2557577']
No one talked to TOP about the very silly Echelon terms before putting our name (my name, in fact) to it and presenting it as our front's considered peace terms.
[/quote]


This is from Xiph in that thread when it was claimed that TOP wasn't informed. I'm pretty much neutral in all this and was pointing out what I'm pretty sure was a strong reason for GOD's dislike of TOP from someone who didn't seem to know.

[quote name='Xiphosis' timestamp='1243754311' post='1573905']
Some clarification - GOD made a point of talking to the entirety of our front before we ever said a word to Echelon. Our talks with TOP consisted of lectures on the evils of reps and an absolute refusal to accept that others on the front wouldn't accept white peace. If they wanted to get petulant and leave when they weren't even really engaged anymore, so be it.
[/quote]

[Haflinger]

[quote name='KCToker' timestamp='1293644140' post='2557420']
Definition of SARCASM
1: a sharp and often satirical or ironic utterance designed to cut or give pain
[/quote]
Sorry, my bad, my sarcasm detector is in the shop again.

[quote name='Locke' timestamp='1293648432' post='2557483']
Umm...I seem to recall Val being the one getting massive aid bombs after Karma; Haf was probably one of the ones to send you aid.
[/quote]
We didn't aid Valhalla, we aided BAPS IIRC. And yes, I sent aid out, as I have done every single time we've done an aid drop pretty much, lol.

[chefjoe]

[quote name='Buds The Man' timestamp='1293649180' post='2557495']
Why so sensitive Thrash unless my comment really applied to you. Also never said that the AA didnt stay till the end just that AA wanted to peace out after about 2 days of war.


We got aid yes from olympus[b] I dont recall anything about invicta at the time[/b] (it is possible but i honestly dont recall) but it wasnt while we were at war either. I realize you love to poke at Val and purple as a whole Locke but try and keep the reply in context of what your quoting. I simply stated a certain ally required aid bombs 2 days in to the war not what aid was delivered or needed after.
[/quote]

Invicta was told 'thanks, but no thanks' when any aid was offered. We [i]may[/i] have (I honestly cannot state with 100% accuracy if we did or did not receive 1 or 2 random gifts) but our policy as a whole was to decline.


edit- thanks haf for confirming what I thought.

[quote name='Haflinger' timestamp='1293657855' post='2557596']
We didn't aid Valhalla[/quote]

@locke- doesnt you're being wrong and looking foolish ever get old? lol

Edited December 29, 2010 by chefjoe

[shadeslayers09]

[ooc] all i got to say is holy crud, how many pages will this debate go on for. [/ooc]

[Midkn1ght]

[quote name='hizzy' timestamp='1293647641' post='2557476']
You mean when GOD & co. put together a bunch of retarded surrender terms for Echelon without even asking TOP for input? It's almost as if... GOD was expecting them to just go along with their agenda, no questions asked. But... that's so unlike them.... I'm absolutely [i]shocked[/i].
[/quote]

You mean the war they jumped in on when they weren't wanted, refused to do anything damaging other then basically slot filling for all the backdoor deals they made like no nukes? The war where most of the folks that did declare on targets that were on us refused to communicate, refused to attack with more then just CM's when they bothered doing anything at all**. The war we told them to piss out of, where they did nothing but came in running their mouths like they saved something when it was already won? The war where they threatened US very blatantly for not listening to their orders for what they expected to happen, demanding no reps, when they had no dog in the race? The war where their screwed up staggers and rushing to fill slots we had purposefully left open to fill a few days later let dozens of our enemies slip into peace that never would of made it? Hell that's the ONLY reason we had that stupid tech requirement to pay back reps, they let so many rush off into peace it had to be purposefully done. All the same war.

So yeah, they didn't do [b]anything[/b] to make us hate them. If you butt into someone else's war when they've told you you weren't welcome, you don't have a damned right to dictate anything, much less threaten them with war if they don't go along. And it wasn't the only front they acted like they ran the show, go ask anyone on the IRON front how they acted, same damned deal minus the slot filling, cause they didn't really do anything there but butt into the negotiation, promising things they had no right to be speaking about. They've since apologized, but it doesn't excuse it, and will always sit raw with us.

[quote]Actually Xiph says he spoke with TOP and every alliance on that front before speaking to Echelon at all. But that all he got was a lecture from Crymson about evil reps.
I think GOD was also pretty mad about the no nukes deal which left GOD to face the nukes that weren't used on TOP. [/quote]

He went to everyone. He was told from TOP they didn't want reps, and no part of reps they were unacceptable, etc they were ready to give peace then. We then continued on without them, since they didn't want a part of the discussion, only to be blindsided by the crying that we didn't listen to TOP, who pulled a cheap PR stunt crying that we were evil. But remember, we're hateful vindictive people who can't let go of a grudge. Only we don't give a damn about NPO, or Polar anymore. They got theirs, all isn't forgiven, but we're not out for their blood, and given the chance, we'd get to know them and give them a fair chance to prove themselves. That's why Xiph keeps standing up for Polar when there is obviously a coalition building to roll them. They played the game to win, regardless of how they acted, they were honest about it, and we don't fault them that. TOP played to screw everyone during Karma, and during BiPolar, and as far as I'm concerned haven't learned anything. MK thinks it can keep it's "Damned dog at the end of it's leash" in control, and hopefully they can, but it doesn't mean when we're told to shut the hell about them coming to our side, that we're going to stay quiet about it.

GOON's, again, it's sad that we had to cancel to make some folks take notice, and in the end a waste because those folks wound up not giving a damn, but it didn't have to be the end of friendship. With as much as Xiph has defended you since you reformed to anyone who was talking bad about you, you know we had a relationship there worth something. Politically it suffered, and that wasn't right, but it was felt as we had to make a statement. With how offended you all got, it failed in that regard, and I'm sorry.


*(The only exception to this case was on Echelon's top guy, who had us beat in tech many times over. TOP did actually communicate there, and sent navy, CMs, and air right after Z nuked, but they refused to nuke, despite beating our best guy by over 10K tech. The did help take him down a lot, and those folks know who they are. But after two rounds even he somehow got "accidentally" let slip into peace for awhile, despite the coordination we'd had with those guys previously being probably the best I'd ever seen, they accidentally bungled the stagger. I'll give the dude credit, he came out on his own swinging and tore up our middle tiers thanks to that, but he came out regardless, one of the maybe 2 or 3 to leave peace after they let him slip in. All other wars they involved themselves in followed my example)

[Locke]

[quote name='chefjoe' timestamp='1293659442' post='2557613']
@locke- doesnt you're being wrong and looking foolish ever get old? lol
[/quote]
I know for a fact aid was requested. It was, however, voluntary, and I don't recall who picked up on it. Like I said, it was all on PUB, complete with a list of each and every person who aided you and medals for them all. That you don't seem to remember this is comical. Invicta may or may not have participated in it, certainly in no large degree at any rate, but to deny it happened at all would be silly; you denied no such aid. The old boards got hacked, I believe, but if you ask Buffy or queenhailee I'm sure they'd remember, maybe even have the list.

[TonytheTiger]

Clearly, TOPs biggest mistake during the Karma war was not siding with the Initiative.

[Khyber]

Midkn1ght if you really want to know TOP's involvement your free to talk to our .gov about it. We fought, ask Alterego who I attacked, and zoomzoom who he was attacking.

Edited December 29, 2010 by Khyber

[Leigon]

[quote name='deathcat' timestamp='1293606865' post='2557123']
These are not the Residents of Stockholm you are looking for (/jedimindtrick)



Poor Analogy Leigon.. better leave it to Aurion and NoFish
[/quote]

I probably should, but it's so hard to stay away.

[chefjoe]

[quote name='Locke' timestamp='1293660490' post='2557625']
I know for a fact aid was requested. It was, however, voluntary, and I don't recall who picked up on it. Like I said, it was all on PUB, complete with a list of each and every person who aided you and medals for them all. That you don't seem to remember this is comical. Invicta may or may not have participated in it, certainly in no large degree at any rate, but to deny it happened at all would be silly; you denied no such aid. The old boards got hacked, I believe, but if you ask Buffy or queenhailee I'm sure they'd remember, maybe even have the list.
[/quote]
sorry ol chap, everyone but you(including someone in invicta and whom had access to those same forums you are spouting about) has said that wasnt the case, and you cannot site any proof either beyond some vague statement of 'I know for a fact'...

Personally, I find your antics amusing so please carry on, but know that its been shown your wrong by several people and your continued stance refuting it just makes you lose more credibility and character. Have a good day sir lol

/me shrugs

[Simon De Montfort]

[quote name='Midkn1ght' timestamp='1293660366' post='2557624']
You mean the war they jumped in on when they weren't wanted, refused to do anything damaging other then basically slot filling for all the backdoor deals they made like no nukes? The war where most of the folks that did declare on targets that were on us refused to communicate, refused to attack with more then just CM's when they bothered doing anything at all**.
... All other wars they involved themselves in followed my example)
[/quote]
I have nothing to say regarding TOPs no nuke policy with Echelon. But as a simple Paradoxian soldier I have to take exception to your description of TOP's willingness to fight. I fought against badboybilly one of Echelon's top nations at the time. Yes, we didn't use nukes but we coordinated and dished out so much damage that he surrendered BEFORE our round of wars were up. Prior to my squads engagement of badboybilly he was slapping around two other nations (whose AA I don't remember). I really don't care to have my war effort, getting a top Echelon nation to surrender and saving two "Karma" nations, described as slot filling.

[WalkerNinja]

[quote name='Simon De Montfort' timestamp='1293665267' post='2557682']
I have nothing to say regarding TOPs no nuke policy with Echelon. But as a simple Paradoxian soldier I have to take exception to your description of TOP's willingness to fight. I fought against badboybilly one of Echelon's top nations at the time. Yes, we didn't use nukes but we coordinated and dished out so much damage that he surrendered BEFORE our round of wars were up. Prior to my squads engagement of badboybilly he was slapping around two other nations (whose AA I don't remember). I really don't care to have my war effort, getting a top Echelon nation to surrender and saving two "Karma" nations, described as slot filling.
[/quote]

It's okay Simon. While our effectiveness may be made light of by our co-belligerents, our targets surely know the truth of the matter.

[Locke]

[quote name='chefjoe' timestamp='1293664833' post='2557675']
sorry ol chap, everyone but you(including someone in invicta and whom had access to those same forums you are spouting about) has said that wasnt the case, and you cannot site any proof either beyond some vague statement of 'I know for a fact'...

Personally, I find your antics amusing so please carry on, but know that its been shown your wrong by several people and your continued stance refuting it just makes you lose more credibility and character. Have a good day sir lol

/me shrugs
[/quote]
Haf said that Invicta didn't aid Val. Okay, but that doesn't refute anything I said here:
[quote name='Locke' timestamp='1293660490' post='2557625']
I know for a fact [i]aid was requested[/i]. It was, however, voluntary, and I don't recall who picked up on it. Like I said, [i]it was all on PUB, complete with a list of each and every person who aided you[/i] and medals for them all. That you don't seem to remember this is comical. Invicta may or may not have participated in it, certainly in no large degree at any rate, but to deny it happened at all would be silly; you denied no such aid. The old boards got hacked, I believe, but [i][b]if you ask Buffy or queenhailee I'm sure they'd remember[/b][/i], maybe even have the list.
[/quote]
If you like to stubbornly ignore me because I'm, well, me, go ask your allies, they'll tell you the same thing. I'm pretty sure there was a thread made about it on the old Invicta ZetaBoards member forum, which is still around, but I don't have access to that part anymore. Regardless, that doesn't mean that you didn't get much needed aid, just as you claim others did. and berate them for it.

But like I said to Buds, I'm not here to educate you, so if you really can't get this through your skull I'm not going to keep expending effort trying; it's clear you let prejudices guide your views anyways.

[Emperor Whimsical]

[quote name='Haflinger' timestamp='1293643918' post='2557416']
Wait a minute, you're now claiming the architect of the Coalition of Cowards has always been a good ally?
[/quote]

Absolutely. The best ally anyone could have.

[Crymson]

[quote name='Midkn1ght' timestamp='1293660366' post='2557624']
You mean the war they jumped in on when they weren't wanted, refused to do anything damaging other then basically slot filling for all the backdoor deals they made like no nukes? The war where most of the folks that did declare on targets that were on us refused to communicate, refused to attack with more then just CM's when they bothered doing anything at all**. The war we told them to piss out of, where they did nothing but came in running their mouths like they saved something when it was already won? The war where they threatened US very blatantly for not listening to their orders for what they expected to happen, demanding no reps, when they had no dog in the race? The war where their screwed up staggers and rushing to fill slots we had purposefully left open to fill a few days later let dozens of our enemies slip into peace that never would of made it? Hell that's the ONLY reason we had that stupid tech requirement to pay back reps, they let so many rush off into peace it had to be purposefully done. All the same war.

So yeah, they didn't do [b]anything[/b] to make us hate them. If you butt into someone else's war when they've told you you weren't welcome, you don't have a damned right to dictate anything, much less threaten them with war if they don't go along. And it wasn't the only front they acted like they ran the show, go ask anyone on the IRON front how they acted, same damned deal minus the slot filling, cause they didn't really do anything there but butt into the negotiation, promising things they had no right to be speaking about. They've since apologized, but it doesn't excuse it, and will always sit raw with us.

He went to everyone. He was told from TOP they didn't want reps, and no part of reps they were unacceptable, etc they were ready to give peace then. We then continued on without them, since they didn't want a part of the discussion, only to be blindsided by the crying that we didn't listen to TOP, who pulled a cheap PR stunt crying that we were evil. But remember, we're hateful vindictive people who can't let go of a grudge. Only we don't give a damn about NPO, or Polar anymore. They got theirs, all isn't forgiven, but we're not out for their blood, and given the chance, we'd get to know them and give them a fair chance to prove themselves. That's why Xiph keeps standing up for Polar when there is obviously a coalition building to roll them. They played the game to win, regardless of how they acted, they were honest about it, and we don't fault them that. TOP played to screw everyone during Karma, and during BiPolar, and as far as I'm concerned haven't learned anything. MK thinks it can keep it's "Damned dog at the end of it's leash" in control, and hopefully they can, but it doesn't mean when we're told to shut the hell about them coming to our side, that we're going to stay quiet about it.

GOON's, again, it's sad that we had to cancel to make some folks take notice, and in the end a waste because those folks wound up not giving a damn, but it didn't have to be the end of friendship. With as much as Xiph has defended you since you reformed to anyone who was talking bad about you, you know we had a relationship there worth something. Politically it suffered, and that wasn't right, but it was felt as we had to make a statement. With how offended you all got, it failed in that regard, and I'm sorry.


*(The only exception to this case was on Echelon's top guy, who had us beat in tech many times over. TOP did actually communicate there, and sent navy, CMs, and air right after Z nuked, but they refused to nuke, despite beating our best guy by over 10K tech. The did help take him down a lot, and those folks know who they are. But after two rounds even he somehow got "accidentally" let slip into peace for awhile, despite the coordination we'd had with those guys previously being probably the best I'd ever seen, they accidentally bungled the stagger. I'll give the dude credit, he came out on his own swinging and tore up our middle tiers thanks to that, but he came out regardless, one of the maybe 2 or 3 to leave peace after they let him slip in. All other wars they involved themselves in followed my example)
[/quote]

I know firsthand the mistakes I made, believe me. For example, the no-nuke deals were a mistake, albeit a thoughtless and inconsiderate one rather than a cowardly one; we had never gone with a nuclear first-strike rule, and thus I judged this as normal. I could have handled better my reaction to the debacle of the terms--I could have not made a public announcement, or I could have advised that we not leave the war at all; I somewhat blew my top at the time, which was unfortunate and irresponsible. I mistreated people in some cases, including a time in which I lost my temper with NoFish (I apologized for this). In all, I was not behaving responsibly; whatever was the case with how others were behaving, I could have behaved much better and could in general have done a much better job than I did.

So yes, I certainly was far from perfect in that situation. TOP was far from perfect. It is, naturally, certainly OK if people make mention of and discuss this. However, what you've produced here is not an honest discussion of events past. Rather, it is an anti-TOP tirade rife with falsehoods, exaggerations, and propaganda. It seems very unnecessary and very counterproductive, and I'm sad to see it.

Edited December 30, 2010 by Crymson

[JBone]

[quote name='Leigon' timestamp='1293664144' post='2557664']
I probably should, but it's so hard to stay away.
[/quote]
Damn, I was almost finished drafting the MADP.

[deathcat]

[quote name='JBone' timestamp='1293675401' post='2557802']
Damn, I was almost finished drafting the MADP.
[/quote]

JBone.. I hear something in the dark corner over there.. behind those 12 ninja... can you please check it out.. I'm SCARED

Now where did I put that acid... Need to get rid of the MDAP before anyone notices... oh !@#$!