Stumpy Jung Il Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 [quote name='ajaxpenny' date='23 February 2010 - 06:35 PM' timestamp='1266968320' post='2199985'] For one, I recognize this DoW as what it is. While we at TOP should be surprised at this declaration by a former friend, times change and it is only honorable for an alliance to follow up on it's treaty obligations. While one can be disgruntled by the way TOP and FOK moved apart, there should be no malice towards this action by FOK. MK does need FOK to bring down some of our upper tiers. That is a statistical fact. And the fact is, FOK is allied to MK, not TOP. Treaty obligations are important still for most alliances. I'll attempt to tackle this somewhat as it hasn't been addressed. We've taken this war in many ways as a coalition war, and as such, have aimed to provide assistance to all those fighting on our side of the conflict to the best of our ability. This is only right, considering the way in which such alliances have come into this conflict to begin with. Along the way we have probably lost track of which exact alliances we have aided which could be considered aiding a combatant not directly linked to our theatre of the conflict. However, with regard to Invicta, I do believe they are fighting a common enemy, The Resistance, which has declared war on both of us, which justifies our aid to them. I haven't seen a FOK Government member contact us regarding this issue. If they had, we could probably have discussed this and come to an understanding on this issue, at the very least. [/quote] If you see it as a coalition war then why cant FOK? How does that excuse give you the right to basically declare war on them, without actually doing so, while baring them from declaring war on you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AirMe Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 (edited) [quote name='Stumpy Jung Il' date='23 February 2010 - 09:36 PM' timestamp='1266979182' post='2200341'] If you see it as a coalition war then why cant FOK? How does that excuse give you the right to basically declare war on them, without actually doing so, while baring them from declaring war on you? [/quote] They are better than us Stumpy. They get to set and modify the rules of engagement at will because we have been playing a game of incompetence and survival for the last 4 years and they have been sitting in their ivory tower laughing at us and our incompetence. At least that is the message I seem to be receiving from them and some of their allies and friends. Edited February 24, 2010 by AirMe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stumpy Jung Il Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 [quote name='AirMe' date='23 February 2010 - 09:39 PM' timestamp='1266979373' post='2200348'] They are better than us Stumpy. They get to set and modify the rules of engagement at will because we have been playing a game of incompetence and survival for the last 4 years and they have been sitting in their ivory tower laughing at us and our incompetence. At least that is the message I seem to be receiving from them and some of their allies and friends. [/quote] It is always amusing to see these people who've been untouchable for years cry while they mocked us for wanting more for so long as we squirmed under the jackboot for that entire time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Londo Mollari Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 [quote name='silentkiller' date='23 February 2010 - 09:29 PM' timestamp='1266978790' post='2200329'] Yeah you just attack without any reason whatsoever. I.e Knights of Ni! [/quote] Huge difference between a 1 day raid that destroys at most a few days worth of infra/warchest and a major curbstomp war that takes half a year to recover from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan Moldavi Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 [quote name='Stumpy Jung Il' date='23 February 2010 - 09:44 PM' timestamp='1266979667' post='2200359'] It is always amusing to see these people who've been untouchable for years cry while they mocked us for wanting more for so long as we squirmed under the jackboot for that entire time. [/quote] Jackboot is a state of mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AirMe Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 [quote name='Ivan Moldavi' date='23 February 2010 - 09:49 PM' timestamp='1266979980' post='2200371'] Jackboot is a state of mind. [/quote] I won't disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chefjoe Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 [quote name='KingEd' date='23 February 2010 - 05:20 PM' timestamp='1266974655' post='2200218'] Yea, I guess. Nevertheless the differense lies in the fact that TOP initiated this war, yet their the ones being curb stomped. Oppsed to previous times in history where the Aggressors were the ones doing the stomping. [/quote] Ok maybe my memory is faded on this(which is possible) but the UJW was this same way. UJP 'aggressed' and then got 'curbstomped'. Hmmm so that would make the only other time I can think of where an aggressor got curbstomped the result was one alliance disbanded for awhile and another was beaten almost to extinction... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stumpy Jung Il Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 [quote name='Ivan Moldavi' date='23 February 2010 - 09:49 PM' timestamp='1266979980' post='2200371'] Jackboot is a state of mind. [/quote] Touche. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiquidMercury Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 [quote name='Denial' date='23 February 2010 - 07:41 PM' timestamp='1266975908' post='2200250'] As for LiquidMercury, all his posts equate to is "I'm a brilliant military strategist, but I had no idea preemptively attacking an entire bloc would result in treaty activations." [/quote] I'm fully aware of the treaty activations that would ensue from a preemptive attack on a bloc. Now, as has happened in every war to date, some treaties are honored, some are not. I went by what people I trust (albeit mistakenly in hindsight) told me as their word as to whether or not they would activate certain treaties. I have not touted my "skill" as a military strategist what so ever in any of this. I've explained my thought process behind some of the plan that I put forth so as to give some sense of understanding to at least how this clustercoconut of a war came about from our standpoint. It would appear as though the Ivan Moldavi fortune cookie of the day read "debase LM as a strategist though he generally never claims to be a great one but people just happen to listen to his ideas." You've spouted off that same line in quite a few announcements now, I get it, you don't think much of me as a military strategist. I've never tried pushing that I am one, I let people think what they think. You think that way, others think another, but simply repeating something ad nauseum doesn't give it any more credence. I would hope you above all would realize that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmansfield68 Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 [quote name='TailsK' date='23 February 2010 - 09:31 PM' timestamp='1266978929' post='2200333'] It's disappoint to see people forget about old friendships so easily. [/quote] This. Is. Cyber. Nations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor Brutus Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 Oh Dayuuum! Good luck not that you need it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigrun Vapneir Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 [quote name='Londo Mollari' date='24 February 2010 - 12:48 PM' timestamp='1266979892' post='2200366'] Huge difference between a 1 day raid that destroys at most a few days worth of infra/warchest and a major curbstomp war that takes half a year to recover from. [/quote] A difference of amount not of kind. Would it really kill you to just admit you were wrong there and move on instead of actually taking the bait and *defending* that action over and over again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saber Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 [quote name='flak attack' date='24 February 2010 - 03:12 AM' timestamp='1266977755' post='2200305'] Yes, he was indeed. MHA has been complaining about this since before your new gov was elected. [/quote] Scutterbug showed me "logs". It was a 2 line comment on aid in a semi public channel (not sure which one) and he commented that it's coalition aid. It was almost barely noticeable. I know I wouldn't have considered that as a serious complaint. Oh, and it was made 24hours before Avernite and me entered office. And we heard nothing about it later on. [quote name='AirMe' date='24 February 2010 - 03:12 AM' timestamp='1266977770' post='2200307'] Personally, I would like to see the logs. [/quote] I am not going to log dump without getting authorization first. Even then I'd avoid it, I'm gonna take Archon's lead and read them myself and then make my summary of events. They could have disputed it several times already. [quote name='Stumpy Jung Il' date='24 February 2010 - 03:36 AM' timestamp='1266979182' post='2200341'] If you see it as a coalition war then why cant FOK? How does that excuse give you the right to basically declare war on them, without actually doing so, while baring them from declaring war on you? [/quote] It's sad to see you trying this hard. If FOK wanted to act on it they would have. But instead they clearly stated that your treaty was activated (by you btw) and that they had to enter because of it. Bringing up the aid after the fact, especially by MK is just trying to justify your actions. Not very well might I say. [quote name='Londo Mollari' date='24 February 2010 - 03:48 AM' timestamp='1266979892' post='2200366'] Huge difference between a 1 day raid that destroys at most a few days worth of infra/warchest and a major curbstomp war that takes half a year to recover from. [/quote] I believe we were willing to peace out immediately after because the major war ended. Don't bother with responding with your party line "But it was a different war, ofcourse we'll make them pay", we heard that one thousand times. Repeating it does not make anyone intelligent believe it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cager Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 Why would you declare with a heavy heart. There's no reason for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ejayrazz Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 Harsh terms are certainly subjective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Brendan Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 [quote name='chefjoe' date='23 February 2010 - 09:52 PM' timestamp='1266980171' post='2200378'] Ok maybe my memory is faded on this(which is possible) but the UJW was this same way. UJP 'aggressed' and then got 'curbstomped'. Hmmm so that would make the only other time I can think of where an aggressor got curbstomped the result was one alliance disbanded for awhile and another was beaten almost to extinction... [/quote] I'm not sure if I agree on the UJW example, but another one you forgot is the Karma War. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonytheTiger Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 One month into this war and CnG still need more alliances to handle us. Why? Because they started to realize the entire block just got served by TOP and co., and that they just can't handle us themselves. We decided long ago to make any attempt to curbstomp us a loosing war for the winners. We can do this for months folks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan Moldavi Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 [quote name='TonytheTiger' date='23 February 2010 - 10:11 PM' timestamp='1266981271' post='2200405'] One month into this war and CnG still need more alliances to handle us. Why? Because they started to realize the entire block just got served by TOP and co., and that they just can't handle us themselves. We decided long ago to make any attempt to curbstomp us a loosing war for the winners. We can do this for months folks. [/quote] Woah there Tiger. From what my people are being told Fark has threatened TOP with a declaration if they continue to send us aid during our war and since it was readily agreed to by your government apparently it seems that you already have as much as you can handle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pasquali Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 [quote name='Timmehhh' date='23 February 2010 - 03:00 PM' timestamp='1266955433' post='2199399'] Never expected this to happen, bleh [/quote] I did. In fact, I pretty much called it two months ago. Still pretty sad to see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnCapistan Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 [quote name='Ivan Moldavi' date='23 February 2010 - 07:17 PM' timestamp='1266981655' post='2200413'] Woah there Tiger. From what my people are being told Fark has threatened TOP with a declaration if they continue to send us aid during our war and since it was readily agreed to by your government apparently it seems that you already have as much as you can handle. [/quote] Maybe they never want to do a beer review? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan Moldavi Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 [quote name='Mr Damsky' date='23 February 2010 - 10:26 PM' timestamp='1266982221' post='2200433'] Maybe they never want to do a beer review? [/quote] That doesn't mean anything. I am not ever going to do one either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonytheTiger Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 [quote name='Ivan Moldavi' date='23 February 2010 - 10:17 PM' timestamp='1266981655' post='2200413'] Woah there Tiger. From what my people are being told Fark has threatened TOP with a declaration if they continue to send us aid during our war and since it was readily agreed to by your government apparently it seems that you already have as much as you can handle. [/quote] I lost track of who we are at war with the second night, I just know we are dishing it out to all comers. I don't know anything about Fark, but i know TOP will probably be the last alliance to get peace no matter what. We will help who we can along the way. Good luck to you and the Sith, Ivan. And thanks for the support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Brendan Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 [quote name='Ivan Moldavi' date='23 February 2010 - 10:29 PM' timestamp='1266982367' post='2200441'] That doesn't mean anything. I am not ever going to do one either. [/quote] Why is it that you are so against doing a beer review or equivalent? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
President Obama Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 (edited) This announcement was a little bit surprising but now I suppose I can brace myself for the next 4. I never thought I would be at war with FOK.. Strange times we live in. edit: Just to clarify, I do find FOK's actions understandable just I never thought I would see FOK and TOP at war. Edited February 24, 2010 by President Obama Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreddieMercury Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 I think out of all the declarations that could have happened, this is probably the least expected and saddest one. Really, you have TOP cornered and you just had to throw this one on there eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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