AirMe Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 [quote name='Haflinger' date='24 February 2010 - 12:34 AM' timestamp='1266989856' post='2200644'] Interesting. Dilber did. [/quote] You shouldn't read much into what Dilber said. He isn't an all knowing seer that can predict the future. He is someone who feels that FOK has wronged him in the past, even though they haven't and is applying his frustration of that situation to this one claiming there is a patter which there isn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiquidMercury Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 [quote name='flak attack' date='23 February 2010 - 11:19 PM' timestamp='1266988975' post='2200616'] I have high level intelligence stating that MK wasn't going to declare on TOP. Of course, what would I know? I'm only one of the guys that would have made a target list if we were planning to do it. [/quote] I have a high level intelligence just looking at the numbers that somewhere, down the line of treaties (agreed you may have not been in the first wave) MK would have been called upon to hit TOP in the fark/IRON/NSO route of entrance. Let's face it, you all are very good at war o/ and are one of the few alliances capable of going knee to toe with us (by sheer NS spread and total NS I do not believe you could have gone 1v1 with us, you and Gre together for sure could though). When you fight some of the best, you call upon the best. I for one whole heartedly salute you at your warring capability (been much much more fun then others I've fought) but to say that you wouldn't have been called by someone? I find that a bit far fetched. You of course are more then able and capable of disagreeing on that point, that is just a an objective opinion of mine not going on any political tension but mere statistical and numerical analysis of placing one military power house against another. Otherwise TOP's top tier would have been left to run rampant through a multitude of alliances (which ironically we're kind of doing only not rampant more like we're the pokemon "gotta catch 'em all!"). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurney Halleck Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 Fok did what they felt they had to. Tough positions are made in war. As far as MK bringing in #22, totally understandable. War isn't fought by queensberry rules. They aren't looking to make this a 'fair fight.' That would be silly. Besides, neither side can peace out yet. We still have nukes left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mussolandia Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 [quote name='AirMe' date='24 February 2010 - 05:38 AM' timestamp='1266990117' post='2200657'] You shouldn't read much into what Dilber said. He isn't an all knowing seer that can predict the future. He is someone who feels that FOK has wronged him in the past, even though they haven't and is applying his frustration of that situation to this one claiming there is a patter which there isn't. [/quote] There is definitely a pattern. It is the second time FOK declares on a former ally a short while after the end of obligations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreddieMercury Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 [quote name='flak attack' date='24 February 2010 - 05:19 AM' timestamp='1266988975' post='2200616'] I have high level intelligence stating that MK wasn't going to declare on TOP. Of course, what would I know? I'm only one of the guys that would have made a target list if we were planning to do it. [/quote] What LM said, I'm not saying you were planning to right that moment, but down the line, it's inconceivable that the wars would land any other way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 [quote name='Mussolandia' date='24 February 2010 - 03:49 PM' timestamp='1266990807' post='2200686'] There is definitely a pattern. It is the second time FOK declares on a former ally a short while after the end of obligations. [/quote] To be fair to FOK, they did give TOP a chance to keep their treaty. Circumstances dictated otherwise, unfortunately Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogeWilliam Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 [quote name='Timmehhh' date='23 February 2010 - 02:00 PM' timestamp='1266955433' post='2199399'] Never expected this to happen, bleh [/quote] Heh. Relations -200 buddy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mussolandia Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 Like I said 10 pages back... they haven't done anything that's technically wrong. FOK does follow its treaties, although it does have a bad habit of changing sides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neneko Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 [quote name='Saber' date='23 February 2010 - 10:41 PM' timestamp='1266961494' post='2199679'] As a counter example, TOP did not ask to activate treaties that would put our allies in bad positions. One example are our MHA, Umbrella and AO treaties.[/quote] Really? you didn't go to any of those and try to make them support your attack? Lie harder. Seriously it's nice to see you live up to your reputation here in public. If TOP didn't want their friends in FOK to get into a difficult position maybe attacking their allies was a bad move. Of course we all know that the blame for the preemptive strike can be shifted over to mk along with any other shady moves top performed during this conflict. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flak attack Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 (edited) [quote name='Mussolandia' date='24 February 2010 - 01:10 AM' timestamp='1266992069' post='2200758'] Like I said 10 pages back... they haven't done anything that's technically wrong. FOK does follow its treaties, although it does have a bad habit of changing sides. [/quote] FOK is changing sides? Edited February 24, 2010 by flak attack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 [quote name='neneko' date='24 February 2010 - 04:22 PM' timestamp='1266992782' post='2200804'] Really? you didn't go to any of those and try to make them support your attack? Lie harder. Seriously it's nice to see you live up to your reputation here in public. [/quote] Can you support your claim that he's lying? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joracy Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 [quote name='Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz' date='24 February 2010 - 01:26 AM' timestamp='1266993005' post='2200829'] Can you support your claim that he's lying? [/quote] The whole MHA thing that went on a few pages back? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haflinger Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 [quote name='AirMe' date='24 February 2010 - 12:38 AM' timestamp='1266990117' post='2200657'] You shouldn't read much into what Dilber said. He isn't an all knowing seer that can predict the future. He is someone who feels that FOK has wronged him in the past, even though they haven't and is applying his frustration of that situation to this one claiming there is a patter which there isn't. [/quote] AirMe, I had a private conversation with Dilber several months ago in which he predicted this precise war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neneko Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 (edited) [quote name='Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz' date='24 February 2010 - 07:26 AM' timestamp='1266993005' post='2200829'] Can you support your claim that he's lying? [/quote] Yes I could. If the alliances in question wanted that posted they'd do that themselves though so you won't seeing any log dumps from me. I don't expect you to take my word for it though my post was mostly directed at saber personally. Edited February 24, 2010 by neneko Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AirMe Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 [quote name='Haflinger' date='24 February 2010 - 01:51 AM' timestamp='1266994491' post='2200961'] AirMe, I had a private conversation with Dilber several months ago in which he predicted this precise war. [/quote] Anyone who didn't see this war coming is an idiot. It was just a matter of when it was going to start. So he wasn't saying anything profound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dilber Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 [quote name='AirMe' date='24 February 2010 - 12:38 AM' timestamp='1266990117' post='2200657'] You shouldn't read much into what Dilber said. He isn't an all knowing seer that can predict the future. He is someone who feels that FOK has wronged him in the past, even though they haven't and is applying his frustration of that situation to this one claiming there is a patter which there isn't. [/quote] I actually have been expecting this for quite some time. It's been really clear where most of FOK's friends were, and expecting them to go against them is dumb as hell. And in regards to the "FOK never wronging me", I guess NPO never helped FOK out of the UJW, helped bring them onto the big-stage via Q, had them cancel on us under a week before Karma, and then have them declare on us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haflinger Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 [quote name='AirMe' date='24 February 2010 - 02:10 AM' timestamp='1266995662' post='2201036'] Anyone who didn't see this war coming is an idiot. It was just a matter of when it was going to start. So he wasn't saying anything profound. [/quote] There are a lot of idiots on Planet Bob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doitzel Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 (edited) [quote name='Dilber' date='24 February 2010 - 02:13 AM' timestamp='1266995792' post='2201040'] And in regards to the "FOK never wronging me", I guess NPO never helped FOK out of the UJW, helped bring them onto the big-stage via Q, had them cancel on us under a week before Karma, and then have them declare on us. [/quote] Which is as much a reflection on you/NPO as it is on them, especially considering they were not the only alliance to follow this course. Edited February 24, 2010 by Elyat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Buscemi Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 TOP, maybe you'll realize the depths at which you have fallen for poor allies like IRON and ex-Hegemony. You threw away Citadel and you threw away FOK. Basically all your good allies you replaced with poor ones. Now if only your Grand Master would come out of peace mode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nananana Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 [quote name='Steve Buscemi' date='24 February 2010 - 01:27 AM' timestamp='1266996644' post='2201078'] TOP, maybe you'll realize the depths at which you have fallen for poor allies like IRON and ex-Hegemony. You threw away Citadel and you threw away FOK. Basically all your good allies you replaced with poor ones. Now if only your Grand Master would come out of peace mode. [/quote] jesus, you actually got a first hand account and you still think that it was TOP and TOP alone that killed Citadel. Of all the alliances, TOP fought very hard to try and resuscitate it. If you actually gave a damn you would have seen some of us working in the trenches to try and fix things. and yeah, it was TOP that cancelled on FOK, you're right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Buscemi Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 Oh I saw what you thought were attempts to fix Citadel. Maybe if you guys finally get over yourselves you'll see where you went wrong. But that list is quite long so might want to get some coffee or something. As to FOK cancelling on TOP. We all know what went on that created that situation, so don't act stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erikz Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 [quote name='Mussolandia' date='24 February 2010 - 07:10 AM' timestamp='1266992069' post='2200758'] Like I said 10 pages back... they haven't done anything that's technically wrong. FOK does follow its treaties, although it does have a bad habit of changing sides. [/quote] Where did we change sides just now? Poor attempt. I just scanned this 22 page announcement and it saddens me that some people, especially third parties, try to fuel the frustration felt by a lot of FOK'ers (+ by a lot of TOP'ers I'm sure), whilst I know a lot of us want this to be over. We did what we had to do, we honoured a treaty. That doesn't mean that we don't like TOP - I hope people can see this and stop their poor attempts of trying to put either of our alliances (FOK and TOP) in a bad daylight. o/ TOP o/ FOK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hymli Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 (edited) If you want this to be over, the offer of peace is still open. I guess problem is that C&G doesn't want this to be over, and they are using you to ensure it drags on. Edited February 24, 2010 by hymli Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chalaskan Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 [quote name='erikz' date='23 February 2010 - 11:48 PM' timestamp='1267001540' post='2201162'] Where did we change sides just now? Poor attempt. I just scanned this 22 page announcement and it saddens me that some people, especially third parties, try to fuel the frustration felt by a lot of FOK'ers (+ by a lot of TOP'ers I'm sure), whilst I know a lot of us want this to be over. We did what we had to do, we honoured a treaty. That doesn't mean that we don't like TOP - I hope people can see this and stop their poor attempts of trying to put either of our alliances (FOK and TOP) in a bad daylight. o/ TOP o/ FOK [/quote] I guess my question would be, are you pushing for peace for TOP? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erikz Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 (edited) [quote name='Chalaskan' date='24 February 2010 - 10:42 AM' timestamp='1267004771' post='2201191'] I guess my question would be, are you pushing for peace for TOP? [/quote] I would definitely do so if I was in govt or the diplomatic core. Trust me. edit: spelling Edited February 24, 2010 by erikz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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