HeinousOne Posted September 28, 2009 Report Share Posted September 28, 2009 (edited) Of course not? How do you make people work if they know they are not moving up? Are they moving up? Brehon does and it seems you were not very happy with that. Who else wasn't if I might ask? Not quite though not as far off the mark as I initially thought. Depending on the person and the department, a lot of the middle people just end up in orbital cliques, their relative power determined by the power of the IO they orbit. If an FA IO is in power, the FA middle people have a lot of strength, should they get moved to the margins, they can expect to have no say whatsoever. The influence of the mid level is almost entirely at the whims of politics at the top levels. Thus NPO is a feudalistic society. GGA should be pissed because NPO does it much better. Edited September 28, 2009 by HeinousOne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebel Virginia Posted September 28, 2009 Report Share Posted September 28, 2009 I never said IO's were trying to stop middle people from doing work. It is the work done by the middle people that makes NPO successful. The IO's just don't want the middle people to gain the ultimate reward that one can gain in NPO for doing all that work. That is because if one of those workers gains that reward then that means a current IO lost that reward. If one IO loses that reward then that means all IO's can lose that reward and none of the IO's want that thus despite their petty cliques they all work together to protect their positions. No, Zha is right about stopping the middle people from working. Well, the extremely bright ones that is. Back when Umbrae was promoted to running the military, he undid a lot of the changes I was trying to make. You know, to end the whole Anthony Era style cult of personality. So what he did was make sure all his military appointments were weaklings who would never suggest ideas (something I actively encouraged, nothing better than a flow of ideas, helped me find suitable people for promotion). What he wanted was a cult of personality, but unlike Anthony he did not want competent people in the military, so it suffered. He started to marginalize me, perceiving me as the major threat to his power. They then did the same to NR after he had outlived his usefulness (mainly all the coding he did for their tools), and FreezerBite, to make way for Bilrow, one of the cronies. So yes, you're both right and wrong. Although they do thrive on the work done on the middle, they make sure that the people who do that work are not the most competent ones there. They do not want anybody to challenge their clique in private. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nintenderek Posted September 28, 2009 Report Share Posted September 28, 2009 (edited) This x10I don't think I have ever talked to an NPO IO who said anything good about Zhadum or MaskofBlue. Most of them would express outright hate. After reading the entire thread, I found this gem, which I somehow find hard to believe. There was a perfect chance to get rid of him almost a year ago, during the WoC, when he said some things on IRC that many found distasteful and called for his removal from government, and or the in game senate. The fact is, if so many people didn't like him, he wouldn't have been able to keep all the positions he had for so long. No, this is something recent, I promise that. Don't get me wrong, I don't like Zhadum and think this should have been done a long time ago. However, to hear that many NPO officials wanted him gone for a long time, is laughable at best. EDIT: Fixed some spelling and added some stuff in. Edited September 28, 2009 by Nintenderek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brehon Posted September 28, 2009 Report Share Posted September 28, 2009 Is the NPO only a meritocracy (seriously switch that with any other title you wish for elawyering), of course not. It is a culmination of ideas to form a government and culture. I know this will be picked apart forever and a day, so be it. To say that people are not rewarded or promoted for their activities falls into a couple categories: 1. They want a position they are not ready for and are bitter 2. Its easy to use this as a way to point at a perceptual evil 3. People lack patience and refuse to look outside their own circle of influence to realize a truth about themselves. yes 1 and 3 are connected, but different enough to be mentioned. Of course I am not foolish enough to deny in some cases it (Meritocracy or any other form, doesn't actually exist). However the reason I am commenting is the claim there is no meritocracy in the NPO is an insult to a great list of Pacificans who have been working their @#$% off and have been promoted and continue to work gaining more respect and trust. I have been a product of the meritocracy policy of the NPO and frankly can personally name at least two dozen of our active members that it applies to as well. If people expect the top positions to flow like water, they are really members of part 3 above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keenu Posted September 28, 2009 Report Share Posted September 28, 2009 (edited) QUOTE (Bob Sanders @ Sep 27 2009, 02:40 PM) *This x10 I don't think I have ever talked to an NPO IO who said anything good about Zhadum or MaskofBlue. Most of them would express outright hate. You are a moron. Both MoB and Zha were good people, althought I dont know if I would condone what Zha did by outing the NPO on most of this information, he was a good IO, and and person to talk to, and MoB made an awesome media boss. So please, for you and future morons, don't try and hop on the bandwagon. Edited September 28, 2009 by keenu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeinousOne Posted September 28, 2009 Report Share Posted September 28, 2009 Is the NPO only a meritocracy (seriously switch that with any other title you wish for elawyering), of course not. It is a culmination of ideas to form a government and culture. I know this will be picked apart forever and a day, so be it. To say that people are not rewarded or promoted for their activities falls into a couple categories:1. They want a position they are not ready for and are bitter 2. Its easy to use this as a way to point at a perceptual evil 3. People lack patience and refuse to look outside their own circle of influence to realize a truth about themselves. yes 1 and 3 are connected, but different enough to be mentioned. Of course I am not foolish enough to deny in some cases it (Meritocracy or any other form, doesn't actually exist). However the reason I am commenting is the claim there is no meritocracy in the NPO is an insult to a great list of Pacificans who have been working their @#$% off and have been promoted and continue to work gaining more respect and trust. I have been a product of the meritocracy policy of the NPO and frankly can personally name at least two dozen of our active members that it applies to as well. If people expect the top positions to flow like water, they are really members of part 3 above. Flow like water? No no..... But if there are folks below a Duke (IO) that are doing most of the work then in fact aren't they the ones with a better understanding of the current situation in their sphere of power within the NPO? Yet they have to continue to answer to the same person that may be quite inactive and hard to contact? Look, Brehon, we get it. You are a new IO and are expected to tow the line but your attempt to catagorize everyone into three categories that are blatently all skewed to one side isn't a very good start when it comes to addressing the world as the NPO's newest IO. My suggestion to you would not be to portray a "more of the same" mentality. You do what you will with that bit of advice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Margrave Posted September 28, 2009 Report Share Posted September 28, 2009 (edited) I've always counted you as a follower, yet this is extreme. Clearly you should change your entire perspective on a player based on... Zhadum. I can't think of a more suitable source of unbiased accurate information regarding Sponge!The quote he is referencing is one of those things the NPO paraded around trying to drum up anti-Polar sentiment. It's a private query between Sponge and someone in the NPO. They pissed him off and he remarked that he had just killed all the NPO's allies. Because we had. The NPO decided this means we made a concerted effort to destroy the NPO's powerbase. Which is not true. It hasn't ever been true. It's just another one of those lies that the NPO tells. Please tell me you are better than this. Also good luck taking revenge on a nation that doesn't exist. Tell me how that works out for you. Random, you critiquing me almost makes me a legitimate player again! I thank you for the compliment. Let me tell ya, being of the particularly embarrassing WASHED UP variety, anytime one of those greater powers in the universe decide to take notice of my posts, it's a real pleasure, let me tell you. Allow me to tender my unworthy response: If ever my revenge/justice/lulz of love can be tendered against the Ungentle personage of the Admiral Fleet Doctor, it will be a fine day indeed. At this point, however, sullying his memory and revealing his secret sins and shames, should there be any left, would be equally satisfying. I'm afraid I'm not good at saying goodbyes, so I will merely say seeya later, alligator. May the skeletons in the closet give you no rest. Edit: Also, Zha was a friend of old, despite our political disagreements. Shame on me for having a long-dying romance with the upper echelons of Pacifica, but oh, how I loved them so. Edited September 28, 2009 by Margrave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Proko Posted September 28, 2009 Report Share Posted September 28, 2009 If ever my revenge/justice/lulz of love can be tendered against the Ungentle personage of the Admiral Fleet Doctor, it will be a fine day indeed. At this point, however, sullying his memory and revealing his secret sins and shames, should there be any left, would be equally satisfying. So long as you're aware the primary causes for that one gigantic war against us that one time were the indiscretions of Electron Sponge, then whatever. The issue has come up before, and we have paid a very, very dear price for it. If you have not yet felt that justice has been done, then I encourage you to try and extract it. Sponge is still an Imperator Emeritus of my alliance, and well-regarded one at that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebel Virginia Posted September 28, 2009 Report Share Posted September 28, 2009 If ever my revenge/justice/lulz of love can be tendered against the Ungentle personage of the Admiral Fleet Doctor, it will be a fine day indeed. At this point, however, sullying his memory and revealing his secret sins and shames, should there be any left, would be equally satisfying. So you plan on sullying the memory of Sponge by feigning outrage over a year old lie spewed by the NPO, and calling it one of Sponge's "sins" being revealed, despite the fact we have known about this lie for over a year so therefore it can hardly be considered new? Right. Let me know how that works out for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChairmanHal Posted September 28, 2009 Report Share Posted September 28, 2009 (edited) So long as you're aware the primary causes for that one gigantic war against us that one time were the indiscretions of Electron Sponge, then whatever. The issue has come up before, and we have paid a very, very dear price for it. If you have not yet felt that justice has been done, then I encourage you to try and extract it. Sponge is still an Imperator Emeritus of my alliance, and well-regarded one at that. OOC: He is also now a former player. But perhaps he will re-roll. IC: If you think that the leadership of your alliance would actually want Sponge back in charge of NpO, I have some very bad news for you...unless your Emperor has had a change of heart since last we spoke. Ok, I read the logs. Fascinating read and a rather disturbing look at the internal struggles at NPO. I would respectfully suggest however that whoever did the intell work that lead NPO leadership to conclude that Fark was going to be on NPO's side in the Karma War either needs to go back in Intell School (or teach the courses on it if they were a secret Karma supporter). Edited September 28, 2009 by ChairmanHal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomInterrupt Posted September 28, 2009 Report Share Posted September 28, 2009 If ever my revenge/justice/lulz of love can be tendered against the Ungentle personage of the Admiral Fleet Doctor, it will be a fine day indeed. At this point, however, sullying his memory and revealing his secret sins and shames, should there be any left, would be equally satisfying.I'm afraid I'm not good at saying goodbyes, so I will merely say seeya later, alligator. May the skeletons in the closet give you no rest. But you didn't reveal anything at all and you didn't sully anything either. You just got shocked by your first time hearing a particularly old and oft-repeated lie. You'd of fit in quite well a year ago. Now you just look a bit silly. Also I have your paragraph formating and spacing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookavich Posted September 28, 2009 Report Share Posted September 28, 2009 OOC: He is also now a former player. But perhaps he will re-roll.IC: If you think that the leadership of your alliance would actually want Sponge back in charge of NpO, I have some very bad news for you...unless your Emperor has had a change of heart since last we spoke. I think Proko would tend to know what the leadership of Polaris does and does not want, Hal. He was Imperial Regent up until about a month ago, and certainly doesn't need a lecture from you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunnyInc Posted September 28, 2009 Report Share Posted September 28, 2009 [18:41:35] <+Zhadum> We had been talking extensively to him beforehand, he gave us his word, he lied [18:42:29] <+Zhadum> In short, we put far more stock in the MDP web than was warranted No surprises there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninja Colt Posted September 28, 2009 Report Share Posted September 28, 2009 IC: If you think that the leadership of your alliance would actually want Sponge back in charge of NpO, I have some very bad news for you...unless your Emperor has had a change of heart since last we spoke. I love how you don't know anything, but still thrive to act like you know it all. That wasn't even related to anything ZB said anyway. Try again please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rishnokof Posted September 28, 2009 Report Share Posted September 28, 2009 Fascinating read and a rather disturbing look at the internal struggles at NPO. I would respectfully suggest however that whoever did the intell work that lead NPO leadership to conclude that Fark was going to be on NPO's side in the Karma War either needs to go back in Intell School (or teach the courses on it if they were a secret Karma supporter). Showed me how far the NPO FA team had their heads shoved up their own @#$%, and just how deluded and cut off they were/are? from real politiking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stumpy Jung Il Posted September 28, 2009 Report Share Posted September 28, 2009 CnG as wild cards? Man, I was in Vanguard government leading up to the war and we were calling targets who were gonna be on the Q side. Never once did we think we'd EVER be fighting on NPO's side of the web. Not. Once. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delta1212 Posted September 28, 2009 Report Share Posted September 28, 2009 Z'ha'dum, I'm happy for you, and I'm gonna let you finish, but Doitzel had the best reveal of all time. Of all time! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeinousOne Posted September 28, 2009 Report Share Posted September 28, 2009 (edited) Z'ha'dum, I'm happy for you, and I'm gonna let you finish, but Doitzel had the best reveal of all time. Of all time! Ok, I am making a fun little prediction. Zhadum's promised thread will include the word "View" in it's title. Edited September 28, 2009 by HeinousOne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyperion321 Posted September 28, 2009 Report Share Posted September 28, 2009 Z'ha'dum, I'm happy for you, and I'm gonna let you finish, but Doitzel had the best reveal of all time. Of all time! I just came into this thread to post this. /me admits defeat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TehChron Posted September 28, 2009 Report Share Posted September 28, 2009 I just came into this thread to post this. /me admits defeat I am shocked and dismayed by the fact I did not think of that first. *Is defeated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stonewall Jaxon Posted September 28, 2009 Report Share Posted September 28, 2009 Z'ha'dum, I'm happy for you, and I'm gonna let you finish, but Doitzel had the best reveal of all time. Of all time! At this point, is anyone in a position to reveal as much as Doitzel did? Maybe some spy-ringmasters, but that's pretty much all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord of Destruction Posted September 28, 2009 Report Share Posted September 28, 2009 At this point, is anyone in a position to reveal as much as Doitzel did? Maybe some spy-ringmasters, but that's pretty much all Zha has 3 years of IO information. I'm sure there's much more he can reveal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fort Pitt Posted September 28, 2009 Report Share Posted September 28, 2009 I'd be interested mostly into the incident that happened in July of '08. Interesting logs, I'll have to read it all when I have time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nintenderek Posted September 28, 2009 Report Share Posted September 28, 2009 Z'ha'dum, I'm happy for you, and I'm gonna let you finish, but Doitzel had the best reveal of all time. Of all time! As funny as this is, it's also sadly true. The best comparison I could think of for it is a movie comparison. You know how sometimes when a movie sells really well, movie producers take that movie, make a half assed sequal and put barely any money into it, and then release it, hoping that the name sells the movie, and everyone flocks to see it on opening night, realizes it sucks, and so it doesn't sell any more tickets after that? Well, let's just call this topic De Profundis 2, and I think you'll see where I'm getting at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TehChron Posted September 28, 2009 Report Share Posted September 28, 2009 As funny as this is, it's also sadly true. The best comparison I could think of for it is a movie comparison. You know how sometimes when a movie sells really well, movie producers take that movie, make a half assed sequal and put barely any money into it, and then release it, hoping that the name sells the movie, and everyone flocks to see it on opening night, realizes it sucks, and so it doesn't sell any more tickets after that? Well, let's just call this topic De Profundis 2, and I think you'll see where I'm getting at. To be fair, this isnt even really the reveal so to speak. This was the equivalent of someone pirating the movie before it's release date, and then having it distributed beforehand. That's right. This thread is a bootleg. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.