Zhadum reveals NPO information: organized logs

[Triyun]

It would make sense if I at all believed what Zh'a'dum attributes to me believing, rather than him blowing hot air and basing things off his own delusional stereotypes and taking disagreement on policies as personal attacks on himself.

Edited September 27, 2009 by Triyun

[TehChron]

What? What have I done (don't answer that)? Unless you're talking about Triyun. Then yes, tons of mistakes on his and Dilber's part.

Yes Im talking about Triyun.

Why would I be talking about you? Everyone knows you've disbanded and been delegated to the annals of history.

[Homura]

Yeah, it's amazing how good the NPO is at disillusioning folks who have worked for it's benefit for years, m i rite or am I right?

With that kind of unity, Pacifica Prevails, amirite?

But seriously, I remember this essay RedCommunist wrote that basically stated NPO needed "permanent revolution" and a focused cause or else it would devolve into infighting. Which happened.

[TehChron]

It would make sense if I at all believed what Zh'a'dum attributes to me believing, rather than him blowing hot air and basing things off his own delusional stereotypes and taking disagreement on policies as personal attacks on himself.

Then please.

Explain your epic series of miscalculations for us.

[avernite]

TOP offered to help if any WUT alliance got counter attacked. NpO was busy still cleaning up CIN drama.

Hmm, it appears you are correct, upon rereading our own files. By the slimmest of margins, but it was approved by the alliance. Damn shame.

[Un4Gvn1]

[19:21:08] <+Zhadum> Nah, TPF tried to $%&@ us until mhawk came back

[19:21:20] <+Zhadum> If mhawk were to ever leave, TPF wouldn't even be an ally

For some reason I feel the need to address this. I am no longer TPF, but I still love her.

TPF members were outraged when they were told the gov had decided to renig on our treaty to defend NPO. Our private IRC channel was near an all-time high in numbers that night, so the percentage of membership represented that night was high. They wanted nothing to do with backing out on a treaty; sure, some members didn't like what NPO had been doing the past year but they are people of honor and didn't want backing out of a treaty with no notice to be on their resumes.

The former TPF gov members responsible for that betrayal abandoned TPF fairly early in the war (maybe 5 weeks in). -- They left saying they'd rebuild and be ready to aid bomb TPF after the war ended. I haven't noticed any incoming aid to TPF from them, to be frank. -- Their betrayal of NPO, based on Skype convos with BigWoody, caused a permanent rift with some gov; I was only the most vocal about it and frankly didn't want to be quiet. I wanted the membership to understand that decision was made by only a handful of gov -- certainly not all of us. (The decision was made by a small group that was in a Skype call. It did NOT represent the thoughts of the entire gov -- not that the opinions of gov members should have been relevant because TPF always has been a dictatorship.)

This information will likely be overlooked by most; but getting it off my chest is a good thing. I want NPO to understand that TPF membership is honorable and would have left en masse if our gov hadn't turned right around and rescinded their statement that we'd not be backing NPO via our treaty (not referring to the Continuum treaty).

Edit: I see Haflinger addressed the misconceptions about TPF. Thank you.

Haf's post

Edited September 27, 2009 by Peggy_Sue

[Rebel Virginia]

It would make sense if I at all believed what Zh'a'dum attributes to me believing, rather than him blowing hot air and basing things off his own delusional stereotypes and taking disagreement on policies as personal attacks on himself.

No, I got to agree with him. I had the same assessment of the NPO years ago. Minus a few faces, and add in a few more faces, ranks, and positions, it is exactly the same as when I left it. So yes, I can confirm everything.

And Chron, why wouldn't you want to talk about me? Who doesn't? I'm great.

Edited September 27, 2009 by Rebel Virginia

[TehChron]

And Chron, why wouldn't you want to talk about me? Who doesn't? I'm great.

Because we have records of the numerous dealings you have made, lies, etc...

So can we please not make this into a revival of Rebel Virginia's non-relevance and get back on topic?

[Sequoia Throne]

This information will likely be overlooked by most; but getting it off my chest is a good thing. I want NPO to understand that TPF membership is honorable and would have left en masse if our gov hadn't turned right around and rescinded their statement that we'd not be backing NPO via our treaty (not referring to the Continuum treaty).

As ambassador to TPF, I can say that this makes a *LOT* more sense than what Zha said.

[TehChron]

As ambassador to TPF, I can say that this makes a *LOT* more sense than what Zha said.

Actually, it's more of a supplemental than an outright denial of what Zha said.

Basically;

Sans mhawk, TPF government would have bailed on the NPO.

With mHawk, deciding chunk of TPF government bailed rather than aid the NPO. Then left the honorable folks to fend for themselves.

[Haflinger]

What Peggy Sue says is true; however, it's not the only thing Z'ha got wrong about TPF.

[Triyun]

Then please.

Explain your epic series of miscalculations for us.

I personally was involved in IRL school work for much of the time during the run up to war. Only sporadically active. Were there mistakes prior to war yes. Was there great $%&@ ups with how we treated TOP and MHA in the negotiations? Definitely, we have said as much to them. To believe that MHA, TOP, and FARK would fight aggressively for us no matter what though is just simply a falsehood.

I would say our biggest mistake with MHA was focus too much on the govt to govt relations and not on member to member or govt to member relations. I would say our biggest mistake with FARK was none of us but Dilber ever really fully clicked with FARK. With TOP our mistake was the negotiations, and we've already had long talks with them about that and will continue to. This stuff isn't some secret like Zha portrays it. Zha wants people to think that all this stuff being revealed is super secret special knowledge. It isn't. Zha was never really involved in foreign affairs for a long time, he's bitter about it and wants to falsely portray things a certain way. Of course there is a reason for that, Zha's strategy for FP pretty much could be summed up as tell everyone to go f themselves and not learn from past mistakes.

[RandomInterrupt]

First thought: One of my least favorite players of this game talks trash and airs the dirty laundry of my least favorite alliance. It's like christmas!

Second thought: There's a lot of bias and simply untrue things in there. It's interesting as the opinion of someone who was around the NPO's upper leadership for a few years. Hardly a factual historical record though.

Third thought: I think it is hilarious that he expected Polar to actually defend the NPO in an aggressive stupid war. Also hilarious that he could express any kind of disgust towards Polar considering his outright hostility towards us for his entire time in the alliance.

Fourth thought: I actually laughed out loud at the part of Triyun. A very apt statement there.

So in short, thank you for the entertainment and hilarious one liners. This is a great account of how the NPO operates and what their attitude us like even if some specific facts are incorrect. Overall nothing I didn't already know though.

[NLights]

Congratulations NPO, Zhadum was always your enemies best weapon. He needed a cage or the boot, the only unfortunate thing is it took you so long to get rid of him.

The logs had some interesting parts but nothing really spectacular. Hey, at least I just filled up my CN drama quota, see y'all next week.

[TehChron]

Zha was never really involved in foreign affairs for a long time, he's bitter about it and wants to falsely portray things a certain way. Of course there is a reason for that, Zha's strategy for FP pretty much could be summed up as tell everyone to go f themselves and not learn from past mistakes.

Considering the rest is more or less you agreeing you messed up, I didnt think it would hurt to remove it.

Anyway, regarding whats left, Zha never really cared to be involved in FA, ever. His bitterness arises from perceived incompetence on your part leading the alliance to the meatgrinder, even saying as much in the logs.

He holds you responsible for what happened in the Karma war, and your incompetent echo chamber mentality in the FA department. That's bitterness over failure, not some kind of jealousy.

And not learn from past mistakes? Thats rich, you lot were the ones who gave into hubris and forgot the necessity of actually maintaining ties with treatied allies. That's literally basic !@#$ right there. You lot made the NPO's foreign affairs a running joke, not Zhadum. Frankly speaking, I find it rich that you try to imply that Zha is some kind of bitter fool, considering what happened between him and Legion.

Seriously. "Learning from past mistakes", huh? What irony.

Edit: Yeah that didnt make much sense before posting, but in summation:

Triyun: Zha is a bitter tool, he is isolationist and zomg and stuff! He thought we should follow his advice which was wrong but clearly mine was better and now hes jealous about that!

When in actuality: 1) Triyun's Foreign Affairs strategy made the NPO into a laughingstock. I believe the most common term used is "shocking incompetence" or something.

2) Zha actually made an extremely good impression with Legion, showing that despite his penchant for grudges and being a jerk, he actually is more than capable of moving on, and accepting when he was wrong. Also, Legion's reformation was something of a success story, a rarity as far as viceroyships go. This shows, clearly, a sense of realism that was quite valuable, considering the path you chose, Triyun.

3 ) Zha's primary failures in his logs are ones of incomplete knowledge. Considering how you lot are incredibly secretive !@#$%^&* over there, this isn't surprising. And considering Zha had no interest in being a part of FA aside from pointing out what could be considered common sense, this also is not surprising.

4) Zha's not bitter about his involvement in FA, he's bitter about you !@#$@#$ it up.

Edited September 27, 2009 by Chron

[Micky Jo Harte]

That was quite the interesting read to those of us less enlightened on NPO and with a few minutes to spare. Surprised the NPO thought NSO was out to get them, and to hear thoughts they were "in decline as well" ... Perhaps I'm just not enlightened enough about these matters at all. Also if the part about the NPO trying to appear as quiet harmless flufflebunnies to quietly regrow and become some sort Superpower is actually true, it will be interesting to see what direction they go in next.

[Triyun]

Considering the rest is more or less you agreeing you messed up, I didnt think it would hurt to remove it.

Anyway, regarding whats left, Zha never really cared to be involved in FA, ever. His bitterness arises from perceived incompetence on your part leading the alliance to the meatgrinder, even saying as much in the logs.

He holds you responsible for what happened in the Karma war, and your incompetent echo chamber mentality in the FA department. That's bitterness over failure, not some kind of jealousy.

And not learn from past mistakes? Thats rich, you lot were the ones who gave into hubris and forgot the necessity of actually maintaining ties with treatied allies. That's literally basic !@#$ right there. You lot made the NPO's foreign affairs a running joke, not Zhadum. Frankly speaking, I find it rich that you try to imply that Zha is some kind of bitter fool, considering what happened between him and Legion.

Seriously. "Learning from past mistakes", huh? What irony.

I can bring in quite a few people who say I talked to them on a regular basis. Feel free to think what you want, but I won't lose any sleep at night for my FA work.

[Delta1212]

I personally was involved in IRL school work for much of the time during the run up to war. Only sporadically active. Were there mistakes prior to war yes. Was there great $%&@ ups with how we treated TOP and MHA in the negotiations? Definitely, we have said as much to them. To believe that MHA, TOP, and FARK would fight aggressively for us no matter what though is just simply a falsehood.

I would say our biggest mistake with MHA was focus too much on the govt to govt relations and not on member to member or govt to member relations. I would say our biggest mistake with FARK was none of us but Dilber ever really fully clicked with FARK. With TOP our mistake was the negotiations, and we've already had long talks with them about that and will continue to. This stuff isn't some secret like Zha portrays it. Zha wants people to think that all this stuff being revealed is super secret special knowledge. It isn't. Zha was never really involved in foreign affairs for a long time, he's bitter about it and wants to falsely portray things a certain way. Of course there is a reason for that, Zha's strategy for FP pretty much could be summed up as tell everyone to go f themselves and not learn from past mistakes.

No matter what...?

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that your biggest mistake with Fark was being completely oblivious to Fark...

[jer]

NPO is ridiculous and doomed.

[TehChron]

I can bring in quite a few people who say I talked to them on a regular basis. Feel free to think what you want, but I won't lose any sleep at night for my FA work.

That's perfectly reasonable, but please don't try and say you were doing a fantastic job when clearly you screwed up majorly. Moreover, keep in mind that it's rather hypocritical for you to attack Zha over acting on incorrect information, considering you nearly got your alliance killed over it.

[Triyun]

The communications with FARK worked both ways. We had issues getting them on IRC and they were rarely active on our IRC channel for allies in stark contrast to some others.

Edit: Also tell me which incorrect information that I got an alliance killed over. I believe I never said that TOP, MHA, FARK, or anyone else was with us for an aggressive war as I wasn't active very much at the time anyway.

Edited September 27, 2009 by Triyun

[TehChron]

The communications with FARK worked both ways. We had issues getting them on IRC and they were rarely active on our IRC channel for allies in stark contrast to some others.

That's an excuse for failure, not delusion.

Edit:

Moreover, keep in mind that it's rather hypocritical for you to attack Zha over acting on incorrect information, considering you nearly got your alliance killed over it.

Emphasis mine.

Edit: Also tell me which incorrect information that I got an alliance killed over. I believe I never said that TOP, MHA, FARK, or anyone else was with us for an aggressive war as I wasn't active very much at the time anyway.

vs.

To believe that MHA, TOP, and FARK would fight aggressively for us no matter what though is just simply a falsehood.

And yet you acted on those estimates, and took the relationships for granted. Clearly you had no idea what you were doing.

Edited September 27, 2009 by Chron

[Delta1212]

The communications with FARK worked both ways. We had issues getting them on IRC and they were rarely active on our IRC channel for allies in stark contrast to some others.

I didn't say lacking in communication. I said the problem was obliviousness. This isn't a problem of not talking to people enough. It's a problem of ignoring blatantly obvious information about an alliance's beliefs and attitudes. It's the exact same issue that lead to Dilber getting upset that Fark told SF about the offer to join Continuum when he asked them to keep it secret.

[Fallen Fool]

Oh drama how I missed thee.

Second thought: There's a lot of bias and simply untrue things in there. It's interesting as the opinion of someone who was around the NPO's upper leadership for a few years. Hardly a factual historical record though.

It's actually kind of confounding to me how many people are taking what Zha is saying at face value.

[Haflinger]

3 ) Zha's primary failures in his logs are ones of incomplete knowledge. Considering how you lot are incredibly secretive !@#$%^&* over there, this isn't surprising. And considering Zha had no interest in being a part of FA aside from pointing out what could be considered common sense, this also is not surprising.

Z'ha appears to have known an awful lot less than I do. Blaming his fellow IOs for being secretive is one thing, but a lot of what he thought was true could have been fairly easily debugged by a couple queries to a guy who was senior diplomatic leadership (vice president when the war broke out, now Dean of the Diplomatic Corps) in the alliance that he apparently considered to be his best ally.

And not learn from past mistakes? Thats rich, you lot were the ones who gave into hubris and forgot the necessity of actually maintaining ties with treatied allies. That's literally basic !@#$ right there. You lot made the NPO's foreign affairs a running joke, not Zhadum.

I have 422K of query logs with Triyun. He's not too bad at keeping in touch. Of course, that's not counting the private channel conversations as well.