Hydro Posted September 28, 2009 Report Share Posted September 28, 2009 Seems to me as though this is nothing more than a last vengeful swipe at those who have ousted him as well as an attempt at playing the brave whistle-blowing martyr type, in order to carry favour with those who previously disliked him for being a chief tyrant. "Sure, Z'ha'dum represented some of the worst traits of the NPO, but forget about that because he's just shockingly exposed all of these really fresh insights about some of the awful practices of the NPO, and none of them were his fault! (never mind that he had just been sacked anyway)". It seems obvious to me that he has hand picked a number of the most prominent criticisms that have been levelled at the NPO in recent times and milked them just to serve his own bitter ends. Nothing to see here but one man's ego working it's magic for what I suspect will be the final time. Maybe it's a kind of tradition for Pacificans. First Doitzel, now Z'ha...Any bets on who's next? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Shore Posted September 28, 2009 Report Share Posted September 28, 2009 You consider him more of a traitor then yourself despite all of the sensitive info you are divulging about NPO because your girl didn't get the position Brehon got? No, I consider him more of a traitor because once a group kicks you out you have no obligation to keep their secrets.Does that little face you made in response to my other statement mean you have nothing to refute against that? What other explanation could you possibly come up with for why long time inactive IO's remain IO's while IA's and other hard workers in the ranks will never get the chance to rise up in the alliance they love? No, the face means what you said was wrong on pretty much every level and I have neither the time nor the inclination to go point by point and refute everything wrong with it. The face was an expression of disbelief someone could post what you just posted, and, what's more believe what you just posted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delta1212 Posted September 28, 2009 Report Share Posted September 28, 2009 Not really, if I were a crony I wouldn't be washed up, traitor. Are you attempting to be a parody of yourself for our amusement or is that unintentional? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebel Virginia Posted September 28, 2009 Report Share Posted September 28, 2009 Not true, a number of people posted the usual "hails" and garbage when Ivan turned up, however, the only person actually sincere in them was Mussolandia. For everyone else, the complaining started on day one and the attempts to retake the NPO within a couple more days. Ivan likes to claim it was only when he threatened the IO status quo that we turned on him but the fact is he was pretty much an unwelcome interloper the moment he walked in the door. We just kept it quiet long enough to do something about it. Actually I didn't mind seeing Ivan return. The Anthony incident left me with a ton of doubts about Moo. I mean, he was threatening to resign due to some of the backlash and complaining from those JrCom idiots (no offense guys). It took some convincing from the rest of us to calm him down, although in hindsight maybe we should have just let him go. And don't lie, you were frightened of Ivan because you knew he'd get rid of you. I honestly don't believe you can deny that most of the IOs were completely and utterly useless. The only reason the vast majority of you even had a spot was because of your friendships with Moo, to one extent or another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TehChron Posted September 28, 2009 Report Share Posted September 28, 2009 (edited) I feel so forgotten and unappreciated. You should.Anyway, I guess I'll chip in some more to this conversation. First, are you guys still upset over Sponge "being mean" to you? You people treated Polar like dirt for a long time. Refused to accept it as a full ally, but instead wanted it to be a good little puppet. Of course he wasn't going to take it. What kind of self respecting man or alliance would? Had you just been willing to compromise on occasion none of these problems ever would have arisen.Yep. The attempts to marginalize Polaris are what set Sponge off to begin with. Back during the WUT negotiations, if memory serves.The irony in QQ'ing over Polaris deciding it wanted to be #1 rather than someone else's puppet is kinda sad. And as for Ivan "couping" Moo. If I recall correctly none of you seemed to really care, and even welcomed it, until word came around that Ivan was going to be clearing house and firing several of your clique. Again, one of my few regrets is sitting idly during that fray instead of openly supporting Ivan, although I will admit that my private musings to Umbrae, expressing my concerns about Moo's leadership ability, did come back to haunt me. That was the time my marginalization was finished, but then again you were in the process of doing that long before I suppose. Never did trust me did you? Despite being one of the few men of character left there, I wasn't part of your clique. No deal though, I quite enjoy seeing all of you drown in the mess of your own making. It's poetry to me. I had always thought I was a part of the clique too, up until my expulsion. Which was kind of depressing to know I was apparently never "good" enough of a brown-noser to be given any long term positions. Edited September 28, 2009 by Chron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nintenderek Posted September 28, 2009 Report Share Posted September 28, 2009 I find it hilarious that Zhadum of all people is the one giving out all this information, considering if not for Moo, he most likely would have been kicked out of the NPO long ago. And quite frankly, I'd take Moo's word over Zhadum's any day. Also, a couple of things. [19:11:43] <+Zhadum> A lot of the thought is NpO and NsO are just waiting for NPO to recover some so they can be the ones to kill it [19:12:09] <+essenia> NpO and NSO want citadel done first I don't know wtf made you think this, but I doubt NpO and NSO want Citadel done, or NPO for that matter. Also, I think either parts of this, or possibly all of it could have been set up, however I'm not sure why it would be. Overall, it was an interesting read, but doesn't mean a whole lot. As said in the logs, NPO doesn't have a whole lot of power right now, and most likely won't for a long time to come. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stonewall Jaxon Posted September 28, 2009 Report Share Posted September 28, 2009 I remember querying Zha over a year ago (I was a very new player at the time), asking about some specific points in the history of CN. I really wish I had kept that log, so that I could contrast it with the log in the OP. That would be very interesting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeinousOne Posted September 28, 2009 Report Share Posted September 28, 2009 No, I consider him more of a traitor because once a group kicks you out you have no obligation to keep their secrets.No, the face means what you said was wrong on pretty much every level and I have neither the time nor the inclination to go point by point and refute everything wrong with it. The face was an expression of disbelief someone could post what you just posted, and, what's more believe what you just posted. Right....then why don't you explain the reasoning behind why inactive IO's remain in power and thus due to it being a Meritocracy they continue to be responsible for major portions of the Order even though they cannot possibly be responsible for such while they are not around for long periods of time? Explain how that is in line with what a Meritocracy really is. I mean, since you were booted you can certainly speak freely on such. Or....does this strike a little too close to home for you to touch? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corinan Posted September 28, 2009 Report Share Posted September 28, 2009 [19:11:43] <+Zhadum> A lot of the thought is NpO and NsO are just waiting for NPO to recover some so they can be the ones to kill it Wow I missed this originally. It's ridiculous and untrue. We do not want to kill NPO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cortath Posted September 28, 2009 Report Share Posted September 28, 2009 I'm in none of this. It's true; no one loves me. My love for you is unbroken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stonewall Jaxon Posted September 28, 2009 Report Share Posted September 28, 2009 Wow I missed this originally. It's ridiculous and untrue. We do not want to kill NPO. Why not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Shore Posted September 28, 2009 Report Share Posted September 28, 2009 Right....then why don't you explain the reasoning behind why inactive IO's remain in power and thus due to it being a Meritocracy they continue to be responsible for major portions of the Order even though they cannot possibly be responsible for such while they are not around for long periods of time?Explain how that is in line with what a Meritocracy really is. I mean, since you were booted you can certainly speak freely on such. Or....does this strike a little too close to home for you to touch? I never said it was a meritocracy, it isn't any more than High School politics are. However, the idea that there was an active effort by the IOs to stop middle people from doing work just so they wouldn't be outshone is silly beyond words. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corinan Posted September 28, 2009 Report Share Posted September 28, 2009 Well, speaking personally, I still like most of the people in Pacifica. That and nostalgia, I suppose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iotupa Posted September 28, 2009 Report Share Posted September 28, 2009 I must say...took long enough, but it still feels good to have nearly everything I've been saying for the last year+ confirmed. Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomInterrupt Posted September 28, 2009 Report Share Posted September 28, 2009 Are you attempting to be a parody of yourself for our amusement or is that unintentional? The dude is a living parody of himself. It's funny unless you have to deal with him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeinousOne Posted September 28, 2009 Report Share Posted September 28, 2009 I never said it was a meritocracy, it isn't any more than High School politics are. However, the idea that there was an active effort by the IOs to stop middle people from doing work just so they wouldn't be outshone is silly beyond words. Oh, you dance so well Zha. The BR are constantly told that NPO is a Meritocracy or atleast they were. Is that practice of internal propaganda ended? I never said IO's were trying to stop middle people from doing work. It is the work done by the middle people that makes NPO successful. The IO's just don't want the middle people to gain the ultimate reward that one can gain in NPO for doing all that work. That is because if one of those workers gains that reward then that means a current IO lost that reward. If one IO loses that reward then that means all IO's can lose that reward and none of the IO's want that thus despite their petty cliques they all work together to protect their positions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogeWilliam Posted September 28, 2009 Report Share Posted September 28, 2009 Well, speaking personally, I still like most of the people in Pacifica. That and nostalgia, I suppose. Is an NSO/NPO merger inevitable with Ivan as emperor again or am I just fantasizing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Pansy Posted September 28, 2009 Report Share Posted September 28, 2009 I'm in none of this. It's true; no one loves me. You know that isnt true Hawky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeinousOne Posted September 28, 2009 Report Share Posted September 28, 2009 Is an NSO/NPO merger inevitable with Ivan as emperor again or am I just fantasizing. Fantasizing. Would be interesting to see an Order collapse though. How many new alliances do you people think would rise up from the ashes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hydro Posted September 28, 2009 Report Share Posted September 28, 2009 Is an NSO/NPO merger inevitable with Ivan as emperor again or am I just fantasizing. I wouldn't hold your breath on that one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Greenberg Posted September 28, 2009 Report Share Posted September 28, 2009 (edited) [19:11:43] <+Zhadum> A lot of the thought is NpO and NSO are just waiting for NPO to recover some so they can be the ones to kill it I love fighting in wars and all, but this seems a little crazy. Who thought of this dumb theory? Edited September 28, 2009 by Ryan Greenberg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Shore Posted September 28, 2009 Report Share Posted September 28, 2009 Oh, you dance so well Zha.The BR are constantly told that NPO is a Meritocracy or atleast they were. Is that practice of internal propaganda ended? Of course not? How do you make people work if they know they are not moving up?I never said IO's were trying to stop middle people from doing work. It is the work done by the middle people that makes NPO successful. The IO's just don't want the middle people to gain the ultimate reward that one can gain in NPO for doing all that work. That is because if one of those workers gains that reward then that means a current IO lost that reward. If one IO loses that reward then that means all IO's can lose that reward and none of the IO's want that thus despite their petty cliques they all work together to protect their positions. Not quite though not as far off the mark as I initially thought. Depending on the person and the department, a lot of the middle people just end up in orbital cliques, their relative power determined by the power of the IO they orbit. If an FA IO is in power, the FA middle people have a lot of strength, should they get moved to the margins, they can expect to have no say whatsoever. The influence of the mid level is almost entirely at the whims of politics at the top levels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan Moldavi Posted September 28, 2009 Report Share Posted September 28, 2009 Is an NSO/NPO merger inevitable with Ivan as emperor again or am I just fantasizing. I would vote yes but I highly doubt it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Greenberg Posted September 28, 2009 Report Share Posted September 28, 2009 Is an NSO/NPO merger inevitable with Ivan as emperor again or am I just fantasizing. Your just fantasizing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stonewall Jaxon Posted September 28, 2009 Report Share Posted September 28, 2009 (edited) I love fighting in wars and all, but this seems a little crazy. Who thought of this dumb theory? I actually look forward to that war. Actually, with NPO's propaganda ability, it'd be interesting to see how the sides would line up. Please, Ivan, do this one for me (I'm Jaxon, by the way; we have not met) Edit: I consider this day productive Edited September 28, 2009 by Stonewall Jaxon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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