Reps for IRON, NPO, Echelon, and TPF

[Haflinger]

And while I've seen a number of Hegemony alliances valiantly offer to fight to the bitter end, I don't recall seeing any Karma alliance threaten disbandment.

http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?a...amp;pid=1489157

Sorry, but no.

[AirMe]

A billion and 10k tech? AirMe, with all due respect, are you aware of the terms IRON was offered?

I appreciate your sentiment regarding TPF, and I agree on the size of an alliance making a difference, but a billion and 10k tech is faaaaaar less than what has been demanded of IRON by certain ex-Hegemony alliances who took part in noCB and have never been wronged by the Hegemony.

-Bama

No, I heard something about 3 billion and 50k tech and when you take into account IRON's size that's not as harsh as it sounds. My point was is when people see the word Billion and 5 figure tech reps people get CN's version of sticker shock.

[shahenshah]

No, I heard something about 3 billion and 50k tech and when you take into account IRON's size that's not as harsh as it sounds. My point was is when people see the word Billion and 5 figure tech reps people get CN's version of sticker shock.

And we did both with about 150 members....not 600.

EDIT:

<MagicalTrevor> MK paying 800mil with 150members, was 5.3mil each

<MagicalTrevor> IRON paying 3bil with 600 members, is 5mil each

If you read one of the earlier post on the same page, your point is discussed in more details.

Edited May 22, 2009 by shahenshah

[Fort Pitt]

NPO should have to pay up all the outrageous reps they demanded from alliances they rolled put together, and then some... oh and id love to see a viceroy but its against the rules now

IRON should just disband

Echelon should tech farm for 6 months

TPF should have to pay about half as much as the total of NPO

Edited May 22, 2009 by Fort Pitt

[Kowalski]

Apologies. I hear that the figure was signficantly lowered from that amount. From what I hear, it's now 3b and 50k. This was due to one of the two alliances demanding those reps largely backing off when people on both sides expressed their outrage in private. But the other did not, last I heard. A certain ex-Hegemony alliance, as a matter of fact. After the beating IRON has taken, I have no idea how you can justify these reps going to an alliance that never got rolled and never had to pay reps to IRON or anyone else.

-Bama

Of the alliances that are currently at war with IRON, can you please explain which of them fall under the "ex-Hegemony" banner in your opinion? Because I can see two and if that's your opinion as well then you're appallingly wrong.

[mhawk]

NPO should have to pay up all the outrageous reps they demanded from alliances they rolled put together, and then some... oh and id love to see a viceroy but its against the rules now

IRON should just disband

Echelon should tech farm for 6 months

TPF should have to pay about half as much as the total of NPO

I like this guy.

[Delta1212]

http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?a...amp;pid=1489157

Sorry, but no.

Because Viking leads an alliance.

I know you don't like GOD, but that was just silly.

[bbrownso]

This is one of those "My personal feelings, not my alliance's" moments.

My thoughts generally are:

1. IRON - IRON has made poor choices with regard to friends, and has done nothing (to my knowledge) when said friends used their power to bully, extort and disband alliances.

2. Echelon - I don't know if they've figured out yet just how well they were played when the NPO convinced them to ditch BLEU in favor of One Vision. They are nothing more but meatshields for the NPO.

3. TPF - Historically, one of the worst offenders by far. They took overt, swaggering bullying to new levels under the leadership of Slayer and TBB.

4. NPO - There's not much one can say. Their history is well-known. Among their many crimes, they have stabbed most of their allies in the back, including their "blood brothers" in Polaris.

So:

1. IRON - They're more of an "accessory" to the crimes of others. Their terms should be significant.

2. Echelon - If they manage to survive this war as an alliance, their terms should be relatively light.

3. TPF - Terms should be crippling and of significant duration. (Say, a year or so.) They have been nothing but bullies in the past, and bullies don't learn their lesson easily. (Sorry, mhawk. I'm still not convinced. This is subject to change, however.)

4. NPO - Terms? Bah. They should get to enjoy the 'FAN experience' for the next couple of years before the subject of "terms" is even discussed.

well my personal feelings are that you don't have a say and should be focused on keeping your own house in order. The bolded portion can be applied to NoR as well and underscores my comment regarding you keeping your house in order.

[Proxian Empire]

These alliances should be required to pay back every cent of money and every bit of technology that they stole from everyone else. Nothing more, nothing less, then they should go free.

[AirMe]

If you read one of the earlier post on the same page, your point is discussed in more details.

How about you calculate how many aid slots you have to send the aid out and how many aid slots we have to send the aid out. The stress on your banking system would be a 4 times less than it was on ours. It isn't just about the amount of cash, you have to factor in the the aid slots as well. Luckily, Seerow at the time had a very efficient system to get the cash out and we got it out in record time.

[AirMe]

Thanks, except I'm Archon, not AirMe.

If by AirMe you mean Archon

Everyone knows Archon is my multi.

[Fort Pitt]

I like this guy.

i think i feel fuzzy inside

[Mixoux]

Because Viking leads an alliance.

I know you don't like GOD, but that was just silly.

It's alright, Haf has to fill his weekly quota of trolling GOD.

[Owned-You]

Go for blood, when you've got your nemesis on the ground and your boot on his neck. You collapse his wind-pipe, you don't let him up.

[nc1701]

These alliances should be required to pay back every cent of money and every bit of technology that they stole from everyone else. Nothing more, nothing less, then they should go free.

Agreed 100%, I mean simply requiring the return of stolen goods is completely and utterly fair and lenient. Also this would clearly show that it isn't just about getting reparations for Karma alliances, it would be about returning stolen tech to alliances like the GPA who are not part of Karma. By doing this we would once and for all prove that this war was not about our lust for power, but about justice and justice means recovering every last scrap of tech stolen by NPO be it from Karma members, neutral alliances, or even current NPO allies (Legion iirc?).

There is no need for reperations to be punitive, a simple return of what NPO has stolen should be plenty.

[OverCaffeinated]

These alliances should be required to pay back every cent of money and every bit of technology that they stole from everyone else. Nothing more, nothing less, then they should go free.

We accept these terms!

Where do we sign?

[D34th]

Nonetheless, you carry the banner of TPF. You identify yourself as the same alliance, under the same name. Just because you have a different government, doesn't change past action. All must account for their actions, in the end. That, by the way, is part of the essence of Karma (just as an interesting aside).

EDIT: Spelling

I love the irony of this.

I'll remind you of Poison Clan and Atarax. All who left were to be attacked and their leaders were to be sentenced to PZI when they left (across rerolls, yes), and then the remaining TPF government went to hell in a handbasket trying to make sense of that. Now they have mhawk and that cool deathcat dude trying their damnedest to hold things together.

Man, I love the Vox Populi alliance history archives.

Man you need search for better history archives, TPF never sentenced Atarax members to ZI or PZI, how I know that? I was part of Atarax gov and was in triunvirate for a short time, and don't remember being sentenced for anything or being forced to join TPF again. Get you facts straight before come with accusations, what happened was tha Slayer wanted us destroyed but he wasn't leader of TPF anymore and Jbone was so cool with us. In fact PC was worse for us then TPF.

Yeah, I have seen even some continuum threads parroting this line. Surely explains all of this erroneous Vox intel on TPF I have been catching up on. Well-played.

If you don't believe in ex-members so nobody can help you, keep going with illusions.

[SpiderJerusalem]

There is no need for reperations to be punitive, a simple return of what NPO has stolen should be plenty.

So, viceroyalty and major reps after 1 1/2 years of war then? Gotcha

[Haflinger]

Because Viking leads an alliance.

I know you don't like GOD, but that was just silly.

Viking's alliance leader, same subject.

[bzelger]

Viking's alliance leader, same subject.

Same subject, different opinion. That's not calling for Pacifica's disbandment. That's opining that the NPO has been exposed for what it is, its house of cards has fallen, and that they'll never rebuild an empire that crushes all others.

[bbrownso]

So, viceroyalty and major reps after 1 1/2 years of war then? Gotcha

Well that would be a bit impossible now wouldn't it? Nice try attempting to play the fool. Viceroys have since been abolished as contrary to the TOS.

Edit: It's people like you that make me dislike Nemesis.

Edited May 22, 2009 by Brandon Simonson

[Haflinger]

Same subject, different opinion. That's not calling for Pacifica's disbandment. That's opining that the NPO has been exposed for what it is, its house of cards has fallen, and that they'll never rebuild an empire that crushes all others.

That's a matter of interpretation. Given his member's opinion on the subject, I'm going to go with the idea that he's agreeing with his member's completely compatible views there, particularly given his alliance's history of disbanding enemy alliances.

[kingzog]

well my personal feelings are that you don't have a say and should be focused on keeping your own house in order. The bolded portion can be applied to NoR as well and underscores my comment regarding you keeping your house in order.

You know, as someone who remains on the NPO's EZI list, I actually do think I get to have an opinion about this.

EDIT: And as someone who watched his former home disband as a result of the TPF.....well, same thing.

EDIT2: And I also forgot how the good folks in Echelon took part in extorting $50 million from another former alliance of mine.

My house is doing just fine, thank you. And unlike a couple of alliances, I'm doing an excellent job of 'making good' on past issues.

You concern is appreciated, though.

Well that would be a bit impossible now wouldn't it? Nice try attempting to play the fool. Viceroys have since been abolished as contrary to the TOS.

Also incorrect, although that discussion does not really belong here.

Edited May 22, 2009 by kingzog

[SpoiL]

6b cash and 110k tech. After the beating they've taken. And it was not even demanded by alliances who have a legitimate claim to reps, but by ex-Hegemony alliances. Ridiculous.

-Bama

I lost 200mil worth of infrastructure from three 7 day wars(With full nuking). I am one person. Considering the size of IRON, the damage they had the potential to do(and probably did) no doubt could equal that much. No one expects the loser to like the terms offered. People seem to forget what 'reps' is the abbreviation for...reparations.

The New Pacific Order has 54 nations over 25K nation strength that have been in peace mode since the start of the war.

When you consider how many nations over 25K they had before the war... well this does seem a bit like punishing the majority for the actions of the few, some of which were probably on vacation or in finals when the war began.

What is at most a few dozen infra-huggers should not condemn hundreds of nations to forever war.

What's more, for all those of you preaching about reps... the NPO currently has 11 nations over 5K infra in war mode. If you want to get reps postwar, you'd better hope that they manage to keep some of that infra, or the only reps you'll ever see will be in the form of tech deals.

Just about all their top nations were in peace mode by the end of 1 war cycle. I suppose it would depend on how much karma wants to be karma. GATO.

[BamaBuc]

Of the alliances that are currently at war with IRON, can you please explain which of them fall under the "ex-Hegemony" banner in your opinion? Because I can see two and if that's your opinion as well then you're appallingly wrong.

I am not talking about Citadel. If you want to know who I AM talking about, take a gander at who's getting all defensive when I and a TOP member (those guys are so Hegemony-biased, right?) brought up reparations that have been demanded of IRON.

Lee, you are dodging the question. I don't care if you personally took part in this. Did you know about it, or not? Because it is most definitely true, although as Coursca and Feanor pointed out, the initial number was 9b 100k, not 6b 10k. My apologies for that.

-Bama